Eoin Murphy no confidence vote

Billcarson

is_that_so wrote: »

Despise away, nobody else's offerings resonate with voters. As a matter of curiosity who would you have in there?

Sf , it would be a risk but faint heart never won fair lady. Fg and ff have screwed us over time and again the last century . Too many cowards in this country. Do people not get it,you vote the same tossers in do to the same crap as before, they are laughing at us because they know they can basically get rewarded for failure.

It sf got in it might if nothing else rock politics in this country. It badly needs a shaking up.

Plumbthedepths

is_that_so wrote: »

Oh, it's got to be changed but that's an overall Dail discussion. The trouble with that type of piece is its selective blindness in fingering only certain TDs.

Fingering certain TDs? only one TD has effectively being away from his job for two years but claiming full expenses. Even a senior FG minister is seeking he answers all questions although I suspect that is damage limitation as opposed to any loyalty to the taxpayers funds.

Idbatterim

Billcarson wrote: »

Sf , it would be a risk but faint heart never won fair lady. Fg and ff have screwed us over time and again the last century . Too many cowards in this country. Do people not get it,you vote the same tossers in do to the same crap as before, they are laughing at us because they know they can basically get rewarded for failure.

It sf got in it might if nothing else rock politics in this country. It badly needs a shaking up.

I totally agree. There is no way I can vote fG again, actually seeing what FF and SF would do, could be interesting. What those not effected by the housing crisis dont get is, its a massive amount of money, far higher than any other expense fora lot of us. There are people complaining "oh I cant afford more LPT" which is spare change in your pocket! And the people renting bedrooms in dublin for nearly a thousand a month, thats ok is it? Biggest nation of me feiners on the planet!

is_that_so

Billcarson wrote: »

Sf , it would be a risk but faint heart never won fair lady. Fg and ff have screwed us over time and again the last century . Too many cowards in this country. Do people not get it,you vote the same tossers in do to the same crap as before, they are laughing at us because they know they can basically get rewarded for failure.

It sf got in it might if nothing else rock politics in this country. It badly needs a shaking up.

Their vote has declined and they need a new message. Part of their lack of attraction to many voters, the big shadow of history aside, is their keenness to tax anyone above the AIW to the hilt. I reckon they'll lose seats, could be a couple or a lot more based on that vote slide and the decline in support for like-minded Indos to get them home in those final seats.

blanch152

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

They shouldnt be allowed too. Seems that is the issue majority of people I have spoken too have.

Sad that our next Govt will be FF/FG again and the country will just get worse and worse

The majority of people you have spoken to obviously don't understand how democracy works.

It is an equally valid choice in any democratic decision to choose not to cast a vote, as it is to cast a vote for or against any proposition. That is a basic building block of a democratic society.

Democracy is the least worst system of government. You may well have an opinion that either FF or FG in government is bad for the country, but so long as you are allowed to have that opinion, to campaign against them, to speak freely against them and to leave the country if you have had enough, then we have a working democracy. But if the majority of people in the country vote to have either a FF or FG government, you are duty bound to accept that outcome.

Fann Linn

is_that_so wrote: »

Their vote has declined and they need a new message. Part of their lack of attraction to many voters, the big shadow of history aside, is their keenness to tax anyone above the AIW to the hilt. I reckon they'll lose seats, could be a couple or a lot more based on that vote slide and the decline in support for like-minded Indos to get them home in those final seats.

They'd get a few votes in this household also if they rolled back on their 'open borders for all' mantra.

Eric Cartman

If theres anyone who thinks we can continue housing those who do not work in dublin city at the rates we currently are and also provide enough housing for students and those who work at affordable prices the ive some magic beans and a wardrobe to sell you because youre living in a fairytale land

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Fingering certain TDs? only one TD has effectively being away from his job for two years but claiming full expenses. Even a senior FG minister is seeking he answers all questions although I suspect that is damage limitation as opposed to any loyalty to the taxpayers funds.

It's not just one individual. We've had the Healy Raes, Kenny and a few others as well. Who knows how many have fobbed in and left for the day? The system is broken and when you don't close off the loopholes people will exploit them legitimately.

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

The majority of people you have spoken to obviously don't understand how democracy works.

It is an equally valid choice in any democratic decision to choose not to cast a vote, as it is to cast a vote for or against any proposition. That is a basic building block of a democratic society.

Democracy is the least worst system of government. You may well have an opinion that either FF or FG in government is bad for the country, but so long as you are allowed to have that opinion, to campaign against them, to speak freely against them and to leave the country if you have had enough, then we have a working democracy. But if the majority of people in the country vote to have either a FF or FG government, you are duty bound to accept that outcome.

FF complain all week about FG's Housing Policy and then abstain from voting. Whats the ****ing point of complaining all the time?

blanch152

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If theres anyone who thinks we can continue housing those who do not work in dublin city at the rates we currently are and also provide enough housing for students and those who work at affordable prices the ive some magic beans and a wardrobe to sell you because youre living in a fairytale land

You forgot that those that think that way also require that the houses you provide in the centre of the city are no more than two storeys high and have a back garden for a trampoline.

There are solutions though. We could demolish the flats on Whitefriar Street and replace them with 10-story apartment blocks, with bigger apartments etc., but the NIMBYs would be up in arms.

Idbatterim

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If theres anyone who thinks we can continue housing those who do not work in dublin city at the rates we currently are and also provide enough housing for students and those who work at affordable prices the ive some magic beans and a wardrobe to sell you because youre living in a fairytale land

I agree eric, but FG and moron Councillors obviously thinks its viable!

Eric Cartman

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

FF complain all week about FG's Housing Policy and then abstain from voting. Whats the ****ing point of complaining all the time?

Its the same way that you dont win at chess by removing the other player. MM doesnt want any sniff of an election till brexit is shored up and the longer he can leave FG there the more tyey lose out in polls, he’ll do anything to stop the collapse of that government while also flogging them publically every day, he’ll leave when he’s sure that FF have the numbers to win, which is important for him to do because as FF’s possibly weakest ever leader, making the other guys look awful is much easier than making him look good

Plumbthedepths

is_that_so wrote: »

It's not just one party. We've had the Healy Raes and Kenny and a few others as well. Who knows how many have fobbed in and out? The system is broken and when you don't close off the loopholes people will exploit them legitimately.

Murphy was acting under the knowledge of the party upper echelons, working on behalf of the party in Europe within their EU grouping. You can slate the Healy Rae's and deservably so but Murphy for the last two years has not respresented

the people who elected him but collected full pay and expenses as if he did. In any other walk of life that would be viewed as serious fraud. I don't think it's going to disappear as quickly as FG hopes.

blanch152

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

FF complain all week about FG's Housing Policy and then abstain from voting. Whats the ****ing point of complaining all the time?

I called this as a publicity stunt and a gimmick from the start. It was designed by the opposition to create some noise and to make the government look bad. It was nothing to do with solving the housing problem, it was nothing to do with an election as they ended up sh*t scared that they would lose the vote.

People got taken in by this, hence the breathless posts last night asking about the numbers, walk-through votes etc. Why get excited about a gimmick?

Fol20

Idbatterim wrote: »

that article is bang on! Sick of the usual "building houses takes a long time" no urgency when you arent being robbed on rent or homeless! The could solve a tens of billion bank guarantee in a matter of hours, in the middle of the night :rolleyes:

Want to fix the housing "crisis", insist on minimum densities that effectively stop any house building in dublin inside the m50, possibly further out. Unless on tiny sites not suited for apartment blocks. Next, the cost of building dual aspect apartments and the lift requirements etc, all that bull**** cost an extra fortune. I'd start telling developers what they can build, or the breakdown, so they dont just provide the highest end most lucrative property (as is understandable) the developers are one hundred percent blame free in this crisis. Its those government rats one hundred percent to blame. Start hiking up rents for social housing, use this to fund more housing. Probably get someone who can actually do their job to start collecting rents, certainly not the inept councils and deduct it from welfare or revenue with a fine if not paid. But the state should be building its own housing, that it never sells off. Rent it out for a fair price of say 25% , open to all, when your circumstances change, you shouldnt be able to stay there, say family members leave. Unless you pay the rent the unit is worth, but one person shouldnt be in a three bed, paying 25% of income on it and subletting the other two rooms for cash :rolleyes:

There are properly run housing schemes all across europe, they solved these issues decades ago! Its only in this banana republic, that its so difficult. But the concept is easy to grasp, the backstabbers we elect here, are beholden to rip off property prices, its the only logical explanation...

all you hear in this country is, no money for this, no money for that. While they massively reduce their tax take and LPT etc, by massively curtailing development!

You hit most of it on the nail here. People on social housing should also not be in expensive areas and should be moved out. its more efficient with money and you get more people off the homeless list. The government wont make the hard choices you have pointed out however.

Eric Cartman

Idbatterim wrote: »

I agree eric, but FG and moron Councillors obviously thinks its viable!

Somebody has to get shafted, every major party has chosen working people who are forced to commute for hours to be the shaftee, I think its time we called for a ban on social housing inside the m50 and made those who don’t work the shaftee, if somebody has to lose, lets make it be the people who have the least to lose and contribute the least.

We can’t truly fix the ‘housing crisis’ without telling the NIMBYS , those on the social list and the georgian preservation society to jog on. , mountjoy square and surrounding areas would make a great area if tastefully renovated to modern apartments sold at affordable prices to those who work, instead of the filthy slum that it is now.

is_that_so

Fann Linn wrote: »

They'd get a few votes in this household also if they rolled back on their 'open borders for all' mantra.

The day that happens, their left-wing band of brothers will denounce them as right wing reactionaries!

charlie14

is_that_so wrote: »

You need to get some more common quotes, had to look that thing up and it still makes no sense! The trend in polls suggests it is going to be either FF or FG and the levels have been steady enough for about two years, along with the decline in votes of the protest parties PBP and SF. That's not anger, Labour on between 3%-7% is as is the fluctuation in the Indos. As an issue it's rarely a big election ticket and it's not going to do many people favours in terms of votes.

If you do not understand the quote "live horse and you will get oats" just ask the next farmer you meet and they will explain it very clearly in the present context as regards housing.



A housing crisis has rarely been an election issue for the simple reason we have rarely had one of this scale. But we have now, and as I said anyone who believes it will not be an issue as to the formation of the next government is deluding themselves.

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

I called this as a publicity stunt and a gimmick from the start. It was designed by the opposition to create some noise and to make the government look bad. It was nothing to do with solving the housing problem, it was nothing to do with an election as they ended up sh*t scared that they would lose the vote.

People got taken in by this, hence the breathless posts last night asking about the numbers, walk-through votes etc. Why get excited about a gimmick?

Ah so, none of the Governemnt want to solve the housing problem. The current Govt plan is failing miserably and the opposition yday didnt want to solve it anyway?

Whats the point in a Government?

Jinglejangle69

charlie14 wrote: »

If you do not understand the quote "live horse and you will get oats" just ask the next farmer you meet and they will explain it very clearly in the present context as regards housing.



A housing crisis has rarely been an election issue for the simple reason we have rarely had one of this scale. But we have now, and as I said anyone who believes it will not be an issue as to the formation of the next government is deluding themselves.

We didn’t have a housing crisis ten years ago because FF built 100s of thousands of houses everywhere.

That ended well alright.

Sheepdish1

charlie14 wrote: »

If you do not understand the quote "live horse and you will get oats" just ask the next farmer you meet and they will explain it very clearly in the present context as regards housing.



A housing crisis has rarely been an election issue for the simple reason we have rarely had one of this scale. But we have now, and as I said anyone who believes it will not be an issue as to the formation of the next government is deluding themselves.

I never heard that quote either so will look it up! I saw that there is protest being organised tomorrow at 12pm! Why would a march be organised during the week when most people can’t attend it! Very strange time to organise a protest!

171170

blanch152 wrote: »

I called this as a publicity stunt and a gimmick from the start. It was designed by the opposition to create some noise and to make the government look bad. It was nothing to do with solving the housing problem, it was nothing to do with an election as they ended up sh*t scared that they would lose the vote.

People got taken in by this, hence the breathless posts last night asking about the numbers, walk-through votes etc. Why get excited about a gimmick?

Mainly because our indescribably stupid media ramped it up in the hopes that the gubberment would fall - elections sell more newspapers!

And, wholly unsurprisingly, the brainless cohort of frothing at the mouth Boardsies followed their lead!

James Brown

charlie14 wrote: »

If I knew all the answers to that then I would be the Minister for Health or the Taoiseach.
What I do know is it is not going to be fixed by throwing money at it year on year as a sticking plaster solution which has been FG policy for the past 8 years while it has got progressively worse.


For a start it would help if we had people in charge who at least could cost a build. Unlike the shambles of the Children Hospital.
A bit of joined up thinking to solve the immediate problems other than vote chasing would help. For example, does it make financial or practical sense when the way to alleviate the ever growing numbers attending A&E is to have them visiting their GP`s to throw money at free child care for under 8`s and filling up GP surgeries.


Something introduced by Reilly who showed what he really thought of primary care centers by shoe horning his own constituency with them.
Varadkar did nothing while Minister other than criticise other ministers. After two doctors e now have a Minister that studied journalism before dropping out faik.



If you were a cynic you would easily get the impression that not only do FG not have a clue on how to solve them problem, other than spinning it for votes or detract they really could not care less about health care.

No, no you wouldn't. The two are incompatible it seems. You get health to earn your dues and pass it on to another sham.

McMurphy

is_that_so wrote: »

Pro-government I would say. He was known to vote with Bertie too!

He got it hard last night in the Dail I see.

Michael Lowry is a liar.
Michael Lowry is corrupt.
Michael Lowry is a tax cheat.
Michael Lowry is a convicted criminal.

These are not opinions but facts established by Tribunals & the Courts.

Mr Lowry has described these as defamatory. If he really feels that way, sue me.

https://twitter.com/ElaineByrne/status/1201990167055212544?s=19

https://twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/1201986974149730313?s=09

James Brown

charlie14 wrote: »

People have been hearing about the problem being alleviated with completed builds the now look on it as a "Live horse and you will get oats"


The housing crisis is not confined to the homeless or social housing it is also includes working families where there are up to three generations living in the one house due to the shortage and demand forcing up prices that do not see a "glimmer of hope" to purchase or even rent.
Those are the people, working middle class, that do not generally march in protest but come an election those that do vote and register their anger at the pooling booth.


Anyone that thinks there is not anger out there on the building crisis, be it on homlessness or shortage of affordable accommodation to buy or rent is deluding themselves imho.

The whinging about the middle FG voters are the very ones happy to pretend that demographic aren't affected by the housing crisis. That way they can blame the victims of it rather than acknowledge the true sh*tshow it is.

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If theres anyone who thinks we can continue housing those who do not work in dublin city at the rates we currently are and also provide enough housing for students and those who work at affordable prices the ive some magic beans and a wardrobe to sell you because youre living in a fairytale land

True, if that was the problem. How do we have high employment and droves of lazy folk on the scratcher? I'm no math whizz but that's don't add up nor nuthin'.

Idbatterim

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Its the same way that you dont win at chess by removing the other player. MM doesnt want any sniff of an election till brexit is shored up and the longer he can leave FG there the more tyey lose out in polls, he’ll do anything to stop the collapse of that government while also flogging them publically every day, he’ll leave when he’s sure that FF have the numbers to win, which is important for him to do because as FF’s possibly weakest ever leader, making the other guys look awful is much easier than making him look good

yes eric, but what MM is doing makes sense, FG through entirely their own doing, are going to continue losing votes at this rate, in my opinion. through years of fcuking around! Would you do the same as him? its not like we need years more of this farce, the longer he waits within reason they more likely he is to be the bigger party of the two! Now I will call out those absolute hypocrites spoofers in the dail, they all are! But we cant be hypocrites ourselves, we would do exactly what he is doing! this chance doesnt come around too often , a party handing you back power, after everything that has happened here, with a booming economy. Its pretty unimaginable actually!

171170

Michael Lowry has repeatedly been tried and found not guilty in the only court that matters to him - the court of the North Tipperary* constituency voters.

* now Tipperary.

James Brown

is_that_so wrote: »

It's not just one individual. We've had the Healy Raes, Kenny and a few others as well. Who knows how many have fobbed in and left for the day? The system is broken and when you don't close off the loopholes people will exploit them legitimately.

Dara 'Air Miles' Murphy is his Dail nickname by all accounts. Him and Enda raise giggles when they turn up. Dara getting the new number in Europe raised it to public attention and after years of Leo doing what Leo does best, nothing, he's now forced to play the leader of the country on this. He hates that.

Idbatterim

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Somebody has to get shafted, every major party has chosen working people who are forced to commute for hours to be the shaftee, I think its time we called for a ban on social housing inside the m50 and made those who don’t work the shaftee, if somebody has to lose, lets make it be the people who have the least to lose and contribute the least.

We can’t truly fix the ‘housing crisis’ without telling the NIMBYS , those on the social list and the georgian preservation society to jog on. , mountjoy square and surrounding areas would make a great area if tastefully renovated to modern apartments sold at affordable prices to those who work, instead of the filthy slum that it is now.

look at this farce! FARCE!!! no surprise who keeps this banana republic afloat! to think that FG are going to risk playing second fiddle to FF, partially because they wouldnt reward workers like they said they would, but shower margaret ca$h with well... cash! They receive ZERO welfare vote, so have absolutely nothing to lose, by addressing the welfare state, but they have everything to lose now from taxpaying voters who are deserting them! absolutely spineless inept, rats!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/what-is-the-truth-about-paying-tax-in-ireland-1.4101097?fbclid=IwAR2RLyhnHW2oxnrukRN1mIpv6dV8wIG8bsYypfMqmfscls36oQXnHhRmUNQ

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

True, if that was the problem. How do we have high employment and droves of lazy folk on the scratcher? I'm no math whizz but that's don't add up nor nuthin'.

Eh, the population is increasing, Matt, didn't you notice? It was all in the Census.

At the same time, the amount of land inside the M50 is static.

It is a pretty simple maths explanation, now, how much do you want to pay for these magic beans?

Eric's point is absolutely correct.

171170

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Dara 'Air Miles' Murphy is his Dail nickname by all accounts. Him and Enda raise giggles when they turn up. Dara getting the new number in Europe raised it to public attention and after years of Leo doing what Leo does best, nothing, he's now forced to play the leader of the country on this. He hates that.

Brian Crowley MEP (also from Cork) was at the same stunt for well over a decade and barely a peep from the media about it!

What is it about Corkonians and their sense of entitlement?

Idbatterim

blanch152 wrote: »

Eh, the population is increasing, Matt, didn't you notice? It was all in the Census.

At the same time, the amount of land inside the M50 is static.

It is a pretty simple maths explanation, now, how much do you want to pay for these magic beans?

Eric's point is absolutely correct.

there are still farms inside the M50 for god sake! dublin has a huge amount of land to build on, you'd swear we were hong kong :rolleyes:

171170

blanch152 wrote: »

Eh, the population is increasing, Matt, didn't you notice? It was all in the Census.

At the same time, the amount of land inside the M50 is static.

It is a pretty simple maths explanation, now, how much do you want to pay for these magic beans?

Eric's point is absolutely correct.

It has already been well established on this very thread that Matt's ability with figures isn't the best! Once he runs out of finger and toes to count on, he's immediately out of his comfort zone.

blanch152

Idbatterim wrote: »

look at this farce! FARCE!!! no surprise who keeps this banana republic afloat! to think that FG are going to risk playing second fiddle to FF, partially because they wouldnt reward workers like they said they would, but shower margaret ca$h with well... cash! They receive ZERO welfare vote, so have absolutely nothing to lose, by addressing the welfare state, but they have everything to lose now from taxpaying voters who are deserting them! absolutely spineless inept, rats!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/what-is-the-truth-about-paying-tax-in-ireland-1.4101097?fbclid=IwAR2RLyhnHW2oxnrukRN1mIpv6dV8wIG8bsYypfMqmfscls36oQXnHhRmUNQ

Where are these taxpaying voters going?

Sinn Fein promise to tax them even more, as do the rest of the left.

FF pretend it has nothing to do with them.

Loafing Oaf

Idbatterim wrote: »

but they have everything to lose now from taxpaying voters who are deserting them!

Where are the 'taxpaying voters' going to go though? Do they honestly believe they will get a better deal from FF or the left parties?

Loafing Oaf

blanch152 wrote: »

Where are these taxpaying voters going?

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Where are the 'taxpaying voters' going to go though?

Great minds post alike:pac:

Idbatterim

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Where are the 'taxpaying voters' going to go though? Do they honestly believe they will get a better deal from FF or the left parties?

I think it may well be a FF / FG government and those FG rats when they go to the elections, well, they found out what not representing those they put in there, where that got them! So they are going to have to go back more to that core vote in my opinion. Let FG off the hook so they can give non workers luxury apartments in dundrum etc, reward their backstabbing by being the largest party again? is that a serious proposal? from someone who lives in that areas and know working people living in garages they have converted?

you seriously think I should vote for these traitors again? They can start looking after the taxpayer, every other party wants to bleed them dry. So get in there, start doing it and next time round, they may have my vote. Goes without saying ending their rotten to the core housing stance, that bleeds people dry financially, **** commutes etc, needs addressing too...

blanch152

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think it may well be a FF / FG government and those FG rats when they go to the elections, well, they found out what not representing those they put in there, where that got them! So they are going to have to go back more to that core vote in my opinion. Let FG off the hook so they can give non workers luxury apartments in dundrum etc, reward their backstabbing by being the largest party again? is that a serious proposal? from someone who lives in that areas and know working people living in garages they have converted?

you seriously think I should vote for these traitors again? They can start looking after the taxpayer, every other party wants to bleed them dry. So get in there, start doing it and next time round, they may have my vote. Goes without saying ending their rotten to the core housing stance, that bleeds people dry financially, **** commutes etc, needs addressing too...

This post is a clear example of how people in Ireland really don't understand coalitions as well as confidence and supply arrangements.

As long as Fine Gael don't have a majority, they don't have the ability to implement every single one of their election promises. They are curbed by their coalition partners (the Independents led by Shane Ross) and by their confidence and supply supporters Fianna Fail.

That is handy for the multitudes of FG-hating posters on here. They can shout and scream and accuse FG of breaking promises left, right and centre, while ignoring the realities of minority government, while at the same time, be secretly relieved that FG aren't going after their social welfare payment.

It is more difficult for people like yourself, who appears to have a right-wing agenda for smaller government, as FG find it hardest to deliver for that cohort from a minority government position. We haven't really had a party working for your agenda since the PDs, and they were much better at delivering niche proposals. The real problem for you is the lack of alternatives. FF have prevented tax cuts for the last four years so that they can promise them in the general election; if you get suckered again by them, that's your loss. Nearly every other party is proposing to increase income tax on the above average earners.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

This post is a clear example of how people in Ireland really don't understand coalitions as well as confidence and supply arrangements.
...

More FG brand arrogance. Not liking something doesn't mean it's misunderstood.

171170 wrote: »

It has already been well established on this very thread that Matt's ability with figures isn't the best! Once he runs out of finger and toes to count on, he's immediately out of his comfort zone.

Both yourself and Blanch have no credibility. It's all little digs and no substance. The Leo Varadkar book of discussion.

Here's some math for you:

Figures released yesterday show that there are currently 10,514 people in emergency accommodation, of which 3,800 are children.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/1204/1096897-housing-murphy-vote/

A new record of 10,264 homeless people is triggering calls for the upcoming local elections to be treated by voters as a referendum on the Government’s “failed” housing policies.

Stinging attacks on the Fine Gael-led Government saw it accused of wrecking the lives of almost 4,000 children who are among those living in emergency accommodation..

He added: “In July 2016, under this Government’s watch 6,500 people were homeless. That figure has increased to over 10,000.”
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/failed-housing-policies-slammed-as-record-numbers-on-the-streets-914041.html

2018:

The strongest indication that current policy has failed is the worsening housing crisis that has extended across Irish society. This includes low income families and individuals made homeless; "Generation Rent", where most young people growing up in Ireland will never be able to afford to rent or buy their own home; adult children forced to live at home with parents or couch surfing and students sleeping in their cars and commuting long distances.

The real scale of the crisis is underestimated by policy makers. The level of housing need and distress is over three times the current waiting lists. If you include those homeless, on housing lists, in receipt of Rental Accommodation Scheme (RAS) and Housing Assistance Payment (HAP), home owners in long term arrears and renters with unaffordable housing costs and in buy-to-lets in arrears, it is a total of 270,000 households (likely to be over half a million people). When policies continue to deny and underestimate the real scale of need they are clearly going to be ineffective.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2018/1005/1001663-housing-crisis-government-policy/

That plan had the worthy ambition of eliminating homelessness and increasing the supply of housing, particularly social housing, by 2021. Official figures show how far it has fallen short. In July 2016, some 6,525 people were homeless. The figure now is 9,846. The average price of purchasing a home two years ago was €215,000 while in Dublin it was €314,311. The current comparable figures are €254,000 and €374,885. In 2016 the average rent was €1,000 a month and there were fewer than 3,100 properties available to let nationwide. The most recent figures show the average rent is €1,261 and there are 3,086 rental properties on the market.

These statistics illustrate the failure to come up with a workable strategy. More to the point they reveal an apparent lack of urgency on the part of the Government, its officials and various State agencies responsible for dealing with the crisis.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/irish-times-view-on-the-housing-crisis-the-government-s-greatest-failure-1.3570285

2019:

The main political response was Rebuilding Ireland, unveiled in 2016. It is a €6 billion plan with the aim of increasing home builds to 25,000 per annum by 2020, providing 50,000 new social housing units by 2021, and accommodating 87,000 families and individuals in the private rented sector through Housing Assistance Payment (HAP) or the Rental Accommodation Scheme.

There are five “pillars” in the plan. They are: homelessness; social housing; building more homes; the rental sector; and vacant housing. But within each there are dozens of potential “solutions”.

The results have been mixed. The Government is close to meeting its targets on social housing and new builds. However, on vacant homes, the rental market and – particularly – homelessness, the outcomes have been hugely disappointing. As of December almost 10,000 people were living in emergency accommodation, including 3,500 children. Back in 2016 the government promised no child would be living in emergency conditions by July 2017.https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/housing-crisis-has-the-government-delivered-on-rebuilding-ireland-1.3784446

But sure maybe an armpit fart will distract, go on.

hatrickpatrick

It is an absolute travesty that confidence motions in specific ministers are seen as an all or nothing vote of confidence on the government itself. The Oireachtas should have the right to demand the replacement of individual ministers by expressing a lack of confidence in those specific ministers, without it automatically being a question of "do we want a general election or the status quo".

The Oireachtas is supposed to hold the cabinet to account. Being unable to lose confidence in an individual minister without bringing down the entire government severely hamstrings the Oireachtas from performing this function.

Loafing Oaf

Idbatterim wrote: »

you seriously think I should vote for these traitors again? They can start looking after the taxpayer, every other party wants to bleed them dry. So get in there, start doing it and next time round, they may have my vote.

The cynical calculation they are making is that most people in you position will continue voting for FG on the 'least worst of a bad lot' principle. As blanch points out, the fundamental problem for your cohort is a lack of alternatives.

mikep

Looking at Matts quotes above we can see that there has been progress on the social housing and new builds however rentals vacant and homelessness are poor.
Listening to the debate on radio etc over the last few days you would be under the impression that everything has failed which is patently false.
Also this morning it was reported that rough sleeping is at it's lowest in years due to the fact that there are 800(!!) hostel beds available.

If you look at the vacant houses one can assume that many are from elderly residents of nursing homes leaving the property vacant.
In Dublin there are around 4000 nursing home spaces so it doesn't take a lot to see that if even 1/4 of these could be put into the rental market that would make a big difference.
However due to the current climate I'd say many are unwilling due to the ever increasing demonisation of the "landlord class", repeated by an SF politician on the radio this morning..
While not applicable to Dublin our family is one who have decided not to rent out our parents vacant home...

im beginning to see, i think, where the split is on this type of thread.

anyone who thinks that:

govt is difficult

minority govt is more difficult

that no one policy is going to be popular with everyone

and even if it were, there are people whose actual job it is in the dail, and in the media, and on boards, to find a problem with it

that people should probably hold some level of responsibility for their own lot in the world once theyve gotten out of school, even if unhappy with that lot

but nevertheless that people fortunate to be in a position to do so should also be happy to pay taxes and have that money spent by the arms of govt, in order for govt to meet it's fair obligations to society

those people are rabid FG defenders

everyone else is just an ordinary joe, no strong political affiliations (no sir!) who could quite handily run a government department without falling foul of political, legislative or resource realities.

the more exclamation marks one uses, the more capable of the challenges of high office one is presumed to be.

is that the basics?

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

More FG brand arrogance. Not liking something doesn't mean it's misunderstood.



Both yourself and Blanch have no credibility. It's all little digs and no substance. The Leo Varadkar book of discussion.

Here's some math for you:





2018:






2019:



But sure maybe an armpit fart will distract, go on.

Matt,

I know you have admitted that you are no maths whizz, but you are taking lack of comprehension to absurd levels.

In your post - yes, your one - it is said "The results have been mixed. The Government is close to meeting its targets on social housing and new builds. However, on vacant homes, the rental market and – particularly – homelessness, the outcomes have been hugely disappointing."

In my detailed post, I said "Government performance on housing in the last year should therefore be rated somewhere between a C and a D. Not bad enough to be considered a failure, not good enough to be considered a significant success, but the picture is one of slow improvement."

There isn't a huge amount of difference, but so where your "FG brand arrogance" is coming from, I don't know, maybe you are looking in the mirror. It is quite astounding how you post such direct personal insults, while maintaining a pretence of debating on the issue.

blanch152 wrote: »

Let us look at some facts.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rppi/residentialpropertypriceindexseptember2019/


"In Dublin, residential property prices decreased by 1.3% in the year to September - house prices decreased by 1.5% and apartments decreased by 0.2%"

The Mid-East, the commuter belt, saw only small rises.

With wages rising by 5-6% according to the stats, then housing is more affordable this year than last.

A look at housing completions:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ndc/newdwellingcompletionsq32019/

"There were 5,667 new dwelling completions in Q3 2019. This compares with 4,645 completions for Q3 2018, an increase of 22.0%."

A 22% increase is not to be sniffed at, still not enough, but heading in the right direction, just like affordability.

Interestingly, these statistics do not include student accommodation. "In Q3 2019, 1,538 bed spaces were completed in the student accommodation sector".

That is a significant number of people being taken out of the normal rental market.

The story on rents is not as good, they are still going up, despite the rent controls.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/research/ar/

So, the facts tell us that the price of property in Dublin is coming down, affordability is easier, the number of properties being built has significantly increased, but that rents are still at high levels. One of two things may be at play, either there is significant population increase/migration preventing rents falling with the increased supply, or rental changes are lagging behind the increase in supply. That should become clearer over the next year.

Government performance on housing in the last year should therefore be rated somewhere between a C and a D. Not bad enough to be considered a failure, not good enough to be considered a significant success, but the picture is one of slow improvement.

What is more, they are motivated by the fact that you can't debate and discuss the real issues.

Less than an hour ago, at 15:06, I explained to you why your ideas on housing in Dublin City don't add up, i.e. finite land and growing population, yet, like always, you just ran away from the debate and came back with personal digs.

The bottom line is that things are improving in this country. First it was saving the national finances, second it was getting the economy growing, thirdly it was creating jobs, fourthly it was getting construction of housing going, and finally, it will be addressing the health and housing issues more comprehensively. The real big issue is that the biggest problem of all - climate change - is being ignored by all but one party. However, if you are debating or discussing any of the other issues and policies - FG's record is actually quite good.

On the other hand, if you are only interested in personalities - Varadkar, Murphy(s), Harris, Kenny, Shatter, Denis O'Brien, Noonan, Bailey - rather than policies, and you splurt with rage every time one of their names is mentioned, then you really are pretty shallow. You actually don't care about any of the issues, if you did, you would acknowledge that the link you provided shows that things are improving, instead all you want for some strange reason is to have a go as some FG politician or other, (the ones on that list seem to occupy all your thinking time) rather than the policy. When that fails, or the lack of substance is pointed out, you resort to having a go at the poster who calls you out on it.

Idbatterim

there is one such party, renua! but they blew their chance at a few seats over an issue that actually wasnt worth fighting over and was always going to pass! just so bloody typical. I admire them for taking a stand, but the likes of varadkar etc, just looked at which way the puiblic wind was blowing, his usual stance on every issue...

Getting those independent alliance gob****es out would be a start. Just form a FF / FG coalition... or if a few seats are needed to form a government, the greens probably the best of a bad lot...

Jinglejangle69

mikep wrote: »

Looking at Matts quotes above we can see that there has been progress on the social housing and new builds however rentals vacant and homelessness are poor.
Listening to the debate on radio etc over the last few days you would be under the impression that everything has failed which is patently false.
Also this morning it was reported that rough sleeping is at it's lowest in years due to the fact that there are 800(!!) hostel beds available.

If you look at the vacant houses one can assume that many are from elderly residents of nursing homes leaving the property vacant.
In Dublin there are around 4000 nursing home spaces so it doesn't take a lot to see that if even 1/4 of these could be put into the rental market that would make a big difference.
However due to the current climate I'd say many are unwilling due to the ever increasing demonisation of the "landlord class", repeated by an SF politician on the radio this morning..
While not applicable to Dublin our family is one who have decided not to rent out our parents vacant home...

Of course there has been progress.

And every year it is better.

But people want 100,000 social houses built overnight for anyone who just wants one?

Impossible and every party knows this.

It’s pure populism and politics with stunts like last night and people are falling for it.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

im beginning to see, i think, where the split is on this type of thread.

anyone who thinks that:

govt is difficult

minority govt is more difficult

that no one policy is going to be popular with everyone

and even if it were, there are people whose actual job it is in the dail, and in the media, and on boards, to find a problem with it

that people should probably hold some level of responsibility for their own lot in the world once theyve gotten out of school, even if unhappy with that lot

but nevertheless that people fortunate to be in a position to do so should also be happy to pay taxes and have that money spent by the arms of govt, in order for govt to meet it's fair obligations to society

those people are rabid FG defenders

everyone else is just an ordinary joe, no strong political affiliations (no sir!) who could quite handily run a government department without falling foul of political, legislative or resource realities.

the more exclamation marks one uses, the more capable of the challenges of high office one is presumed to be.

is that the basics?

Pretty much.

blanch152

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Of course there has been progress.

And every year it is better.

But people want 100,000 social houses built overnight for anyone who just wants one?

Impossible and every party knows this.

It’s pure populism and politics with stunts like last night and people are falling for it.

More than that, Matt wants the 100,000 social houses built overnight in Dublins 1 and 2.

Of course people are falling for it, they are gullible.

frosty123

He's a handsome man...handsome politicans are few and far between in this country..so in that regard they should leave him be.