Eoin Murphy no confidence vote

Rodin

Population highest since the famine.
Foreign workers coming in to subsidise the non-working Irish have to live somewhere.

Rodin

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Its on a similar trajectory to the hospital trolley crisis. Getting worse by the year with FGFF at the wheel. Radical change is needed.

Too many patients.
Population high
Too many people sick through their lifestyle choices.

Goldengirl

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah, only about a dozen of them fancied the idea of a possible early election but others felt "morally obliged" to vote against the government as long as they knew it would fail.

Haha, Mattie Mc Grrrh!

Transginger

Rodin wrote: »

Population highest since the famine.
Foreign workers coming in to subsidise the non-working Irish have to live somewhere.

If we had zero immigrants it would be the same. Money to assist immigrants wasn't ear marked for hospital trolleys.

Liberta Per Gli Ultra

Classic distraction tactics from the right-wing; blame the foreigners, the poor and the sick for the problems in housing and healthcare. Sure they hold all the means to influence society.

Calhoun

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

I feel that the government are trying to pitch people against people on social welfare but this is issue is so much bigger than that. There are so many reports on Margerat Cash and very few on ordinary people that this affects.

It isn't just social housing that is the problem. People working are being massively affected by this crises. There are people up and down the country living back with their parents due to not being able to afford rent or purchase a house and at the same time cuckoo funds are buying up estates to rent out houses. Families can't compete with that.

The cuckoo funds aren't necessarily the worst thing to happen to the rental market. If you look at the rent increased in the pressure zones for the most part smaller landlords seem to be breaking the law and we have seen an increase of around 8-9% YoY compared to the cuckoo funds that are staying within the law.

The problem is the government has no real plans for increasing the domestic stock from a purchasing perspective, instead they give tax breaks to first time buyers which just end up increasing the asking price.

If they were to really address the issue they would supply builders with the revenue stream to build or a way to turn a decent profit.

ThunbergsAreGo

charlie14 wrote: »

Come GE20 I`m sure the runaway contract price will be well rehashed so he is only doing a King Canutewhere the tide has already come fully in on that one.
A more immediate and damaging concern of voters will be the ever increasing record numbers of patients on trollies.

But how do you fix healthcare? We spend an increasing amount in it each year, over 15 Billion.

Yet each year they have overruns. Why is this?

Are the number of patients increasing? The cost of treatment?

ThunbergsAreGo

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

I feel that the government are trying to pitch people against people on social welfare but this is issue is so much bigger than that. There are so many reports on Margerat Cash and very few on ordinary people that this affects.

It isn't just social housing that is the problem. People working are being massively affected by this crises. There are people up and down the country living back with their parents due to not being able to afford rent or purchase a house and at the same time cuckoo funds are buying up estates to rent out houses. Families can't compete with that.

Disagree in the Margaret Cash piece , there was nothing negative in the media about her.

A hundred percent on on the other piece, the focus should be on making housing accessible to working people up and down the country. The blanket term "social housing" is associated to much with cases like Cash and perhaps how they are allocated needs to be looked at.

Wanderer78

ThunbergsAreGo wrote:

Are the number of patients increasing? The cost of treatment?

The negative impacts of private health insurers is rarely spoken about in Ireland, the fact that they extract wealth from the system. There's no doubt money wasted by bad practices and other inefficiencies, but we must also include these negative impacts in the discussion, health systems are also damn complex beasts

ThunbergsAreGo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The negative impacts of private health insurers is rarely spoken about in Ireland, the fact that they extract wealth from the system. There's no doubt money wasted by bad practices and other inefficiencies, but we must also include these negative impacts in the discussion, health systems are also damn complex beasts

Surely the number of patients should be easy to get, yet is rarely talked about in the "beds" discussion.

Are there less beds or more people/patients? If there are more patients why are people sicker.

Anyway I digress

X111111111111

Shameful from FF. The party of cowards.

McMurphy

irishfeen wrote: »

Even if Eoghan Murphy wins this vote 2020 doesn’t seem to be any easier ... potentially much worse.

Homelessness, housing shortages and potentially major industrial relations upheaval with water staff.

He is way out of his depth.

This .

If anyone thinks FG can breathe a sigh of relief, they're deluded - the Murphy problem has been delayed, not resolved.

I don't think it (the motion) was ever going to be anything else but see Murphy survive, but with only 3 votes in it was probably too close for comfort.

Christmas break soon where they can all take a much needed respite (in their eyes) from us plebs, the media will keep regurgitating negative press about them and the new year will have yet more inevitable bad news tales surrounding health/housing, expenses and insurance fraud scandals.

FG definitely are on a downwards trajectory, the electorate seem to be turning on them, the media definitely are turning on them, they seem to have run out of steam. This will only get worse as they carry on into the new year as a government without any real authority and cloaked iwith negative stories.

And fair enough, some may say this is biased (I can take that on board) one thing that definitely doesn't help fg is their online presence, some of the anonymous pop up accounts on various social media sites (nevermind just here) just reek of arrogance, and you can't help get the feeling that even behind the online character persona lies not a particularly nice person typing out his or her script, definitely does the party harm rather than good (imo).

Fr Tod Umptious

Transginger wrote: »

If we had zero immigrants it would be the same. Money to assist immigrants wasn't ear marked for hospital trolleys.

Not speaking for the poster you quoted but I don't think they were suggesting that money to assist immigrants would be better spent on hospital trolleys.

What I took from their post was that we need foreign workers because there are a lot of Irish people not interested in doing the jobs these foreign workers end up eventually doing.

Beta Ray Bill

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

I feel that the government are trying to pitch people against people on social welfare but this is issue is so much bigger than that. There are so many reports on Margerat Cash and very few on ordinary people that this affects.

There are a lot of people like Ms Cash who have had a large number of kids specifically to get up the list and get a house first.
She's the tip of the arrow so to speak, same as Maria Bailey is the tip of the piss take insurance claim arrow.
The focus will always be on them.

I accept there are a people that do want to work and contribute to society, but people like Ms Cash just want to take, take, take, and there is a system in place that allows them to do it.
The problem isn't some woman with 8 kids, it's the system

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

It isn't just social housing that is the problem. People working are being massively affected by this crises. There are people up and down the country living back with their parents due to not being able to afford rent or purchase a house and at the same time cuckoo funds are buying up estates to rent out houses. Families can't compete with that.

I agree that the cuckoo funds are buying up apartment complexes (not really housing estates, there is f**k all of them being built)
And yes you're correct, if they come along, the ordinary Joe Soap on the street hasn't a chance. They are however being heavily supported by HAP.
Stop giving out the HAP and the cuckoo funds will go away, they're only here for easy money.

Likewise, councils up and down the country are bidding on private sales of individual dwellings, and it actually works out cheaper for them to buy a 2nd hand house then build a new one. So if if you're bidding against the council you may forget it.
Double edged sword.

We're quite simply giving out to much and it's creating a superficial demand.

marieholmfan

Having Irish children is the most important contribution to society that any Irish person can make.

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

There are a lot of people like Ms Cash who have had a large number of kids specifically to get up the list and get a house first.
She's the tip of the arrow so to speak, same as Maria Bailey is the tip of the piss take insurance claim arrow.
The focus will always be on them.

I accept there are a people that do want to work and contribute to society, but people like Ms Cash just want to take, take, take, and there is a system in place that allows them to do it.
The problem isn't some woman with 8 kids, it's the system



I agree that the cuckoo funds are buying up apartment complexes (not really housing estates, there is f**k all of them being built)
And yes you're correct, if they come along, the ordinary Joe Soap on the street hasn't a chance. They are however being heavily supported by HAP.
Stop giving out the HAP and the cuckoo funds will go away, they're only here for easy money.

Likewise, councils up and down the country are bidding on private sales of individual dwellings, and it actually works out cheaper for them to buy a 2nd hand house then build a new one. So if if you're bidding against the council you may forget it.
Double edged sword.

We're quite simply giving out to much and it's creating a superficial demand.

FrancieBrady

I think FF end up looking worse here funnily enough. Inneffectual, and comfy in opposition.

They can't really hide behind the 'get Brexit sorted first excuse' on this one.

Idbatterim

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think FF end up looking worse here funnily enough. Inneffectual, and comfy in opposition.

They can't really hide behind the 'get Brexit sorted first excuse' on this one.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-at-the-mercy-of-his-opponents-following-no-confidence-vote-1.4103745?mode=amp

Wanderer78

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think FF end up looking worse here funnily enough. Inneffectual, and comfy in opposition.

They can't really hide behind the 'get Brexit sorted first excuse' on this one.

ah theyll put their own mark on this clusterfcuk when they stroll back in, in a few months

is_that_so

charlie14 wrote: »

They may not march because of homeless figures, but that does not mean when it comes to voting it will not be a factor.
That was actually what killed water metering in the end.

It actually depends what's happened in the meantime, through completed builds. As has been said the "housing crisis" apart from the headline numbers does not affect enough people. For many looking to get on the ladder, there is a glimmer of hope in that there is much better availability. Despite what we see on these threads, from time to time in the media and perhaps in some quarters in RL, that raw anger which swept away FF and then Labour is gone. Some entities will raise it and campaign on it but what is it they can actually do better? Ultimately it comes down to LAs to take care of it,whether huge tranches of government money or off their own bat.

is_that_so

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-at-the-mercy-of-his-opponents-following-no-confidence-vote-1.4103745?mode=amp

Yeah but that still means March at least, to allow the dust to settle and for Boris to do his worst.

blanch152

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

In fairness it was quite close! How can people be allowed to abstain from voting on such an important issue. Disgraceful

Utterly predictable, and was predicted.

blanch152 wrote: »

Eh, Social Democrats brought the motion. Neither Sinn Fein nor Fianna Fail want an election. They are going through the motions with this, encouraging others to stick with FG.

Not just me, but there were several others who called this as a stunt and a gimmick that wasn't a serious attempt to get rid of Murphy.

is_that_so

charlie14 wrote: »

Over 10,000 for the 9th consecutive month with nearly 4,000 of that 10,000 plus being children.

Easily the length of time it takes and more to build a house. That makes it prime fodder for anyone who wants to claim that nothing is being done. 2020 and beyond is where the numbers are expected to ramp up so whoever gets in gets the credit.

Rodin

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

But how do you fix healthcare? We spend an increasing amount in it each year, over 15 Billion.

Yet each year they have overruns. Why is this?

Are the number of patients increasing? The cost of treatment?

Number of patients increasing.
Range and cost of treatments increasing.
People living longer need treated more often.
Obesity is rampant.

Politics doesn't help. Solutions to fix things are politically unpalatable. Too many hospitals in the country (but not enough beds)

Sheepdish1

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Disagree in the Margaret Cash piece , there was nothing negative in the media about her.

A hundred percent on on the other piece, the focus should be on making housing accessible to working people up and down the country. The blanket term "social housing" is associated to much with cases like Cash and perhaps how they are allocated needs to be looked at.

Yes, a lot of people now associate people that need social housing are people that have never worked and want a ‘forever’ home. It’s creates an “us versus them” and deflects from the issue that the housing crisis is as bad as it is. A lot of people are on social housing lists work but can’t buy a house and can’t afford to pay the huge rents being charged.

I believe far more money is wasted by government policies but they are using social housing as a deflection. It was reported yesterday that Dublin City Council is spending €16,800 per month on an empty building. This is scandalous and I’m sure if this was investigated it would show this is happening length and breath of the country. When you see reports of TD’s using fobs to claim huge expenses it would make one wonder if this is just the tip of the iceberg!

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Utterly predictable, and was predicted.



Not just me, but there were several others who called this as a stunt and a gimmick that wasn't a serious attempt to get rid of Murphy.

Survived by 3 votes, apparently Grealish, Naughten and Lowry were the amigo's that had the deciding vote.

Sheepdish1

Calhoun wrote: »

The cuckoo funds aren't necessarily the worst thing to happen to the rental market. If you look at the rent increased in the pressure zones for the most part smaller landlords seem to be breaking the law and we have seen an increase of around 8-9% YoY compared to the cuckoo funds that are staying within the law.

The problem is the government has no real plans for increasing the domestic stock from a purchasing perspective, instead they give tax breaks to first time buyers which just end up increasing the asking price.

If they were to really address the issue they would supply builders with the revenue stream to build or a way to turn a decent profit.

The rental pressure zones aren’t working and have made the market even worse for renters. Any new landlords that come onto the market put the prices even higher as they know they can’t increase the rents in future. A lot of landlords get around this loophole, it’s not properly monitored and tenants are so desperate they have to take what ever increases they are given.

The cuckoo funds will do the same. They will price the rents high as they know they’ll have to stay within RPZ increase limits.

Yes, absolutely, all it has done is increased prices.

Do cuckoo funds pay the standard tax rate on rental income or do they avail of the generous corporate rates ? It would be interesting to find out this to see how much tax is being collected

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Survived by 3 votes, apparently Grealish, Naughten and Lowry were the amigo's that had the deciding vote.

And they would have been your heroes had they voted the other way.

It was all just spin, gimmick and playacting which kept the Social Democrats in the news for a few hours.

Any chance you could get Matt to give us an update on where that fantastic court case to end the abuse of the money motion issue is at, you know the one that Paul Murphy was all over the media about three weeks ago?

I'll tell you one thing, the protest parties have a lot of you fooled with their stunts and gimmicks that will never make a difference.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

And they would have been your heroes had they voted the other way.

It was all just spin, gimmick and playacting which kept the Social Democrats in the news for a few hours.

Any chance you could get Matt to give us an update on where that fantastic court case to end the abuse of the money motion issue is at, you know the one that Paul Murphy was all over the media about three weeks ago?

I'll tell you one thing, the protest parties have a lot of you fooled with their stunts and gimmicks that will never make a difference.

Wtf has that got to do with this thread, or me?

If you have an online bromance with another poster, peruse it on your own without trying to entice me into it.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Wtf has that got to do with this thread, or me?

If you have an online bromance with another poster, peruse it on your own without trying to entice me into it.

Giving another example of how people are fooled by the antics of politicians.

zerosugarbuzz

Watched it live online. Eoghan Murphy’s speech was staged to within an inch of its life. He must have been rehearsing for the past week, full of fake emotion and hand gestures, sad.