Jessica Yaniv refused service at gynaecologist's office

ceadaoin.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The only misogyny here is from those who are trying to distract attention from the very real issues of the actual violence against women that happens every day in every town in the country to address their own personal discomforts with some very small degrees of improvements in the treatment of some very vulnerable people.

Who is distracting from that? This thread is about Jessica yaniv. A male who is using the law to abuse women. Yes, women are abused all the time, all around the world. Doesn't mean we can't also discuss this. Why do you want to distract attention from the issue of men exploiting the law to abuse women?

Misogyny is telling women to shut up and move over for males. That our feelings and views dont count. Same old story as the rest of history really.

Also, you do realise that there are residents of countries other than ireland posting on here right?

Ironicname

AndrewJRenko wrote:

This is a lie, a falsehood, an untruth that has no place in any civilised discussion. Anyone with any sense of decency would have withdrawn their lie once it was pointed out to them.

Indeed.

It's a lie that a person who was born with a penis is, or can be, a woman.

To argue anything else is by your rationale, uncivilised discussion.

Do you agree?

Ironicname

Ironicname wrote: »

Indeed.

It's a lie that a person who was born with a penis is, or can be, a woman.

To argue anything else is by your rationale, uncivilised discussion.

Do you agree?

Well said. Unfortunately such elegantly simple truths aren’t well received by all here.

Cock and balls? Woman? Nope.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

At what stage do we accept that women ARE actually being killed by men on a regular basis. Do you think that maybe we should be focus on that very real issue rather than worrying about theoretical possibilities.

So, you answered a question with a different question. Bully for you. You didn't even come close to answering what I asked of you, or even referring to the content of my post. You deflected completely, and are simply repeating your original post. A total cop out. Answer the question and show me that you're not simply virtue signalling with vague nonsense.

ceadaoin.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Misogyny is telling women to shut up and move over for males. That our feelings and views dont count. Same old story as the rest of history really.

No. Misogyny is a hatred of women. You're describing a degree of discrimination based on gender, i.e. sexism. there's a very strong difference.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Who is distracting from that? This thread is about Jessica yaniv. A male who is using the law to abuse women.

Agreed.

Yes, women are abused all the time, all around the world. Doesn't mean we can't also discuss this. Why do you want to distract attention from the issue of men exploiting the law to abuse women?

Yes, women are abused sometimes, all around the world. Not all women are abused, many women are never abused and many of those abused are never abused again. Some are. Your attitude is too extreme. You talk about Misogyny, but you're coming across as very pro-misandry right now, unless you're including female on female abuse (which is rather high) and even then, you'd come across as quite extreme. Foaming in the mouth radical feminist extreme, that is.

As for the issue of men exploiting the law to abuse women... care to provide some evidence on how common this is (not exceptions to the rule) [And I'm fine with a new thread about it], or are we simply talking about Transgender people or actual males? Otherwise, I'm calling rubbish. Not to derail the thread, but honestly, I'm tired of this kind of generalised hate speech.

Dante7

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, you answered a question with a different question. Bully for you. You didn't even come close to answering what I asked of you, or even referring to the content of my post. You deflected completely, and are simply repeating your original post. A total cop out. Answer the question and show me that you're not simply virtue signalling with vague nonsense.

He never answers. I put him on ignore because I got bored with him contorting himself in pretzel logic to try and justify his cultish belief that trans women are literally women. Deep down he knows he is wrong, but the cult logic demands that he defend it at any cost.

The day is nigh when him and all the other woke blokes have to admit that there is a serious issue that needs to be debated, and when that day comes watch them all do a complete 180 and attest to how they always believed that there was a problem.

splinter65

The vast majority of men are perfectly normal. Then theres woke blokes and they’re more to be pitied then anything else. But there’s a hard core of men with an inexplicable but carefully hidden deep seated resentment of women, and they’d like nothing better then to see the hard won safe spaces women enjoy now invaded by men whose right to be treated as women they pretend to champion, but who when they have transitioned, they wouldn’t touch with a barge pole.

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

Well said. Unfortunately such elegantly simple truths aren’t well received by all here.

Cock and balls? Woman? Nope.

Well, here's the thing for me. Am I man simply because I have a cock and balls? Nope. It's definitely part of it. But there are other aspects.

Hormones are a huge part. Growing up as a male is another, although connected. The constant ache of sexuality that is always there in the back of the mind. Any male would understand such a reference. An awareness of our sexuality is always with us, when we look at our desire gender, and even when we're alone. The trials of growing up as a child and later as a teenager. The trials of dating as a male, the pain/disgust/embarrassment/anger of dating initially. The inherent responsibility that society places on us as being male, simply for our gender. And lately the pressure that society places on the male gender as being a risk to females.

They're all part of being male. Just as females have their own trials and tribulations to experience. Different to males but equally difficult.

So, you decide one day that you're female, go through the emotional/mental angst, endure the drug treatments or surgery, but you still have the memories/experience/perception of being male. Sure, perhaps a male with a different perception than others. I'm bisexual. I have a different perception than most guys I know, but I'm still a guy.

It's not simply the case of changing your tackle. It's also about appreciation for the deeper aspects of what it means to be male or female within any society. And this is why I can't accept a "transwoman" being automatically accepted as being the same as a female.... because they're a male with male experiences with desires to be female. Great. No problem with that. Their choice with that. But expecting all of society to shift to accept them as being the same as females? Nope. Not buying it. Even as a male child, dressed and treated as a female, they will still retain the biological impulses of a male child... biological differences that are completely different to what females experience... and so, they won't have female experience except what they expect them to be. They're still a male personality mixed with a semi-female alteration.

Are males a risk to women? Some are. Socially, psychologically, and statistically, a minority are. Are trans also a risk to women? yup... by the same measure as men. Just as Socially, psychologically, and statistically, women are to men, although it's a lesser risk. Still a risk though.

Ignoring the risk is irresponsible. Exaggerating the risk is also responsible. Proper research and investigation is needed without the bias that is common with political and social agendas these days. For an issue like this, we need complete honesty.

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

The vast majority of men are perfectly normal. Then theres woke blokes and they’re more to be pitied then anything else. But there’s a hard core of men with an inexplicable but carefully hidden deep seated resentment of women, and they’d like nothing better then to see the hard won safe spaces women enjoy now invaded by men whose right to be treated as women they pretend to champion, but who when they have transitioned, they wouldn’t touch with a barge pole.

I don't know who you hang out with, but I've never experienced that. I know a few guys with borderline sexist tendencies... but nothing even remotely close to what you're suggesting. Yes, I'm a male, and have many male friends across a wide spectrum of nationalities and ages.

What are these hard won safe spaces? I'm an egalitarian btw. I don't care what gender, race, etc you are. If you're qualified then, go for it. Even, if you're not qualified, go for it, but your lack (experience, qualifications, physical prowess etc) is against you.

Gynoid

^^^A sweet person called Fionne Orlander and Miranda Yardley are advocating for third spaces, both are transwomen who defy the trans cult.

https://www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-a-plea-for-third-spaces-for-transgender-men-and-women

Brian?

splinter65 wrote: »

It would be very easy for you to offer clarification of your position on the matter, for example something along the lines of “ Your being ridiculous splinter65, of course I agree that women should be allowed to enjoy being naked and vulnerable in a women only space without being forced to accept a naked man being allowed in”. Then I would be apologizing for misinterpreting your posts.
But you won’t clarify so my point stands.

You made up your point. So it should have never been made in the first place.

You think it’s ok to make stuff up about other posters to seize the higher ground. You should expect people to be pissed off by that.

Brian?

splinter65 wrote: »

Misogyny, hiding in clear sight on this thread. This is what happens when nobody challenges the rise and rise of the “progressive” stormtroopers.

Making stuff up again eh? Great craic altogether.


Unless of course you can point out some misogyny.

Brian?

Ironicname wrote: »

Indeed.

It's a lie that a person who was born with a penis is, or can be, a woman.

Legally, that’s the truth. You need to get over it.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, here's the thing for me. Am I man simply because I have a cock and balls? Nope. It's definitely part of it. But there are other aspects.

Hormones are a huge part. Growing up as a male is another, although connected. The constant ache of sexuality that is always there in the back of the mind. Any male would understand such a reference. An awareness of our sexuality is always with us, when we look at our desire gender, and even when we're alone. The trials of growing up as a child and later as a teenager. The trials of dating as a male, the pain/disgust/embarrassment/anger of dating initially. The inherent responsibility that society places on us as being male, simply for our gender. And lately the pressure that society places on the male gender as being a risk to females.

They're all part of being male. Just as females have their own trials and tribulations to experience. Different to males but equally difficult.

So, you decide one day that you're female, go through the emotional/mental angst, endure the drug treatments or surgery, but you still have the memories/experience/perception of being male. Sure, perhaps a male with a different perception than others. I'm bisexual. I have a different perception than most guys I know, but I'm still a guy.

It's not simply the case of changing your tackle. It's also about appreciation for the deeper aspects of what it means to be male or female within any society. And this is why I can't accept a "transwoman" being automatically accepted as being the same as a female.... because they're a male with male experiences with desires to be female. Great. No problem with that. Their choice with that. But expecting all of society to shift to accept them as being the same as females? Nope. Not buying it. Even as a male child, dressed and treated as a female, they will still retain the biological impulses of a male child... biological differences that are completely different to what females experience... and so, they won't have female experience except what they expect them to be. They're still a male personality mixed with a semi-female alteration.

Are males a risk to women? Some are. Socially, psychologically, and statistically, a minority are. Are trans also a risk to women? yup... by the same measure as men. Just as Socially, psychologically, and statistically, women are to men, although it's a lesser risk. Still a risk though.

Ignoring the risk is irresponsible. Exaggerating the risk is also responsible. Proper research and investigation is needed without the bias that is common with political and social agendas these days. For an issue like this, we need complete honesty.

Sorry, you’re making it far too nuanced and complicated. People want simple answers that they can make snap judgements on.

I can’t honestly disagree with anything you said. I object to the black and white view some people on here default to.

Dante7

Brian? wrote: »

Legally, that’s the truth. You need to get over it.

No we don't need to get over it. Hence this debate, where you are getting your arse handed to you.

Gynoid

Brian? wrote: »

Legally, that’s the truth. You need to get over it.

Are you open to dating or having sex with transwomen? Could you get over finding a penis in their pants if after a few dates with someone you have enjoyed time with, and now would like to have sex with? Can a transwoman call themselves a lesbian? And is a biologically female lesbian who only desires people with vaginas transphobic? What are your limits to getting over things, Brian, or are you all on board with transwoman is a woman?

If you dont answer, I will understand.

ceadaoin.

Brian? wrote: »

Legally, that’s the truth. You need to get over it.

It's a legal fiction. Human beings cannot change their sex.

Brian?

Gynoid wrote: »

Are you open to dating or having sex with transwomen? Could you get over finding a penis in their pants if after a few dates with someone you have enjoyed time with, and now would like to have sex with? Can a transwoman call themselves a lesbian? And is a biologically female lesbian who only desires people with vaginas transphobic? What are your limits to getting over things, Brian, or are you all on board with transwoman is a woman?

If you dont answer, I will understand.

Legally a trans woman is a woman. My personal feelings are completely irrelevant to it.

If you’re not attracted to trans women, don’t go out with them. I honestly don’t care in the slightest about the rest. Just like I don’t care who people marry or have sex with as long as it’s consensual.

Why wouldn’t I answer? Why does this stuff worry you so much.

Brian?

Dante7 wrote: »

No we don't need to get over it. Hence this debate, where you are getting your arse handed to you.

Can you point out precisely where my arse has been handed to me?

Brian?

ceadaoin. wrote: »

It's a legal fiction. Human beings cannot change their sex.

Who says they can? They can legally change their gender.

One eyed Jack

Dante7 wrote: »

The day is nigh when him and all the other woke blokes have to admit that there is a serious issue that needs to be debated, and when that day comes watch them all do a complete 180 and attest to how they always believed that there was a problem.

It’s weird to hear you talk about woke blokes doing complete 180s and all the rest of it when earlier in the thread you were giving it welly suggesting that men are a threat to women and how feminists have warned us about this, and “us men” have to stand up for our sisters, mothers and daughters. Would that be the same feminists that have been warning us that we live in a rape culture and tell us that young girls need to be taught that young boys are a danger to them, or are they a different set of feminists?

Undoubtedly there’s a whole boatload of problems involved with the politics of transgenderism, but I don’t know where you’d like to start? Would you like to start with the fact that young girls are identifying themselves as transgender at a rate that exceeds any previously recorded statistics? I know you’re not ok with the idea of anyone being exposed to someone else’s genitalia (was never comfortable with it myself tbh, guy shaving his balls at the sink in the gym, some ould one with her tits hanging out sunbathing, nobody needs to see that like :pac:), so in those circumstances it would make sense from your point of view that males would stick to the male changing area, but what of females who have undergone or are undergoing hormonal treatments or surgical procedures?

The fact is we already have laws prohibiting anyone from indecently exposing themselves to anyone else, regardless of their gender, so the whole males/females in changing rooms is a moot point as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps it’s worth pointing out that in this country at least, the SATUs deal with both male and female victims of sexual violence.

I’ve already made it clear I disagree with medical and surgical treatment for people who are transgender, I don’t believe them to be nearly as effective as they are purported to be. I think they are a crude way to address what are psychological and developmental issues. I disagree with the idea of encouraging either males or females to undergo these sorts of procedures and there is a growing number of young people who aren’t just reading up on this stuff any more, but they’re ordering hormones over the Internet and using them without any medical supervision, simply because they’re desperate.

So, where would you like to start?

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

Sorry, you’re making it far too nuanced and complicated. People want simple answers that they can make snap judgements on.

I can’t honestly disagree with anything you said. I object to the black and white view some people on here default to.

I agree with you. People want simple, but reality is not simple. It's not a world of black and white. It's not even a world of fifty shades. It's a world of millions of shades with segments of black/white but each segment is a further degree of shades of black/white.

I'm not against transgender"ism" per se. Honestly, i've met so few trans people in the west, and more than a few in Asia, but the approach/attitude in Asia is far different to the west. It baffles me the hype that has grown out of these issues, when it relates to such a small number of people out of any population. Even gay rights never received the degree of attention and condemnation that trans issues receive to this day, and in such a relatively, short time.

Still, my issue remains the short term aspect of it all. There's no consideration or discussion of the long term effects on society, and perhaps, more importantly, any evidence of how trans procedures affect people long term. There are too many cases of people reverting to their original gender and yet, most of that is ignored for the crusade of expressing rights and needs. It bothers me, how shallow it has all become. (and yes, I'm old fashioned with vocabulary. Sex/gender are the same thing for me. Gender perception is a different thing entirely)

Gynoid

Brian? wrote: »

Legally a trans woman is a woman. My personal feelings are completely irrelevant to it.

If you’re not attracted to trans women, don’t go out with them. I honestly don’t care in the slightest about the rest. Just like I don’t care who people marry or have sex with as long as it’s consensual.

Why wouldn’t I answer? Why does this stuff worry you so much.

You do realise that law is a mutable human creation that can be fallible, not some divine representation of absolute truth? In a democracy peoples feelings about laws are completely relevant because they vote to install politicians who enact laws that they favour and overturn laws that they dont.
Why would you not be attracted to a transwoman? Is there a reason? You did not answer from your point of view, you made a sweeping vague generalisation and claimed to answer. You did not.

Dante7

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s weird to hear you talk about woke blokes doing complete 180s and all the rest of it when earlier in the thread you were giving it welly suggesting that men are a threat to women and how feminists have warned us about this, and “us men” have to stand up for our sisters, mothers and daughters. Would that be the same feminists that have been warning us that we live in a rape culture and tell us that young girls need to be taught that young boys are a danger to them, or are they a different set of feminists?

Undoubtedly there’s a whole boatload of problems involved with the politics of transgenderism, but I don’t know where you’d like to start? Would you like to start with the fact that young girls are identifying themselves as transgender at a rate that exceeds any previously recorded statistics? I know you’re not ok with the idea of anyone being exposed to someone else’s genitalia (was never comfortable with it myself tbh, guy shaving his balls at the sink in the gym, some ould one with her tits hanging out sunbathing, nobody needs to see that like :pac:), so in those circumstances it would make sense from your point of view that males would stick to the male changing area, but what of females who have undergone or are undergoing hormonal treatments or surgical procedures?

The fact is we already have laws prohibiting anyone from indecently exposing themselves to anyone else, regardless of their gender, so the whole males/females in changing rooms is a moot point as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps it’s worth pointing out that in this country at least, the SATUs deal with both male and female victims of sexual violence.

I’ve already made it clear I disagree with medical and surgical treatment for people who are transgender, I don’t believe them to be nearly as effective as they are purported to be. I think they are a crude way to address what are psychological and developmental issues. I disagree with the idea of encouraging either males or females to undergo these sorts of procedures and there is a growing number of young people who aren’t just reading up on this stuff any more, but they’re ordering hormones over the Internet and using them without any medical supervision, simply because they’re desperate.

So, where would you like to start?

Another clown shoes for the ignore list. I asked you four times to explain your assertion that trans people are denied human rights and you replied with word salad.

Brian?

Gynoid wrote: »

You do realise that law is a mutable human creation that can be fallible, not some divine representation of absolute truth? In a democracy peoples feelings about laws are completely relevant because they vote to install politicians who enact laws that they favour and overturn laws that they don't

Of course I realise that. If you read my post earlier you may have noticed that. Morality itself isn’t fixed. It evolves. It’s an expression of the prevailing opinion of society, not something that’s fixed.

Why would you not be attracted to a transwoman? Is there a reason? You did not answer from your point of view, you made a sweeping vague generalisation and claimed to answer. You did not.

Why does any of this matter to you? In my opinion it’s completely irrelevant to the debate. Tell me that and I’ll answer.

Dante7

Brian? wrote: »

Can you point out precisely where my arse has been handed to me?

Every point you have tried to make that has been refuted by facts. Continuing this long tradition, your last post stating that trans women are legally women is also incorrect.

Brian?

Dante7 wrote: »

Another clown shoes for the ignore list. I asked you four times to explain your assertion that trans people are denied human rights and you replied with word salad.

I hope your echo chamber is warm and comfortable.

Brian?

Dante7 wrote: »

Every point you have tried to make that has been refuted by facts.

No it hasn’t. One has.

Continuing this long tradition, your last post stating that trans women are legally women is also incorrect.

Is it? Go on, explain.

ceadaoin.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

It's a legal fiction. Human beings cannot change their sex.

That's not strictly true. Those born with both sexual organs within the body can change their sex due to hormonal changes, but the actual number of such people is minuscule. (admittedly I'm hazy on the details but I remember encountering such people in Thailand, and their claims of this being the case. Don't see any reason not to believe such claims since they have a much longer history dealing with such.. welcome to research disproving it though) They're still human though.

Anyone born with an original particular sexual organ (Male/female) cannot change their sex.

Dante7

Brian? wrote: »

No it hasn’t. One has.



Is it? Go on, explain.

Enter A&E as a trans woman and state that you are legally a female and see if you will receive a blood transfusion from a female.