Jessica Yaniv refused service at gynaecologist's office

AndrewJRenko

Gynoid wrote: »

100 children were referred to Tavistock from Ireland between 2015 -2018.
2500 children were referred to Tavistock in the Uk in the 1 year calculated mid 2017 -2018. A 25% rise on the previous year.
The expert medical Directors of Tavistock have resigned because of their concerns about what goes on there.
There are over 100 gender clinics in the US dedicated to children and young teens alone, a huge rise in about 5 years. Estimates are for 150000 trans children and rapidly rising. Social contagion is being researched as a possible cause.
Govts in the UK and Sweden have started investigations into the rapid medicalisation of childrens dysphoria with experimental and dangerous drugs.
Sweden has suspended treatment of gender confused children.

Oh OK then - so you're saying that every child being treated worldwide is part of the 'online hot house' that you mentioned earlier.

And you're referring to worldwide figures.

And you still have no source for your claims about the number of children or the number of clinics.

So it's really just 'make it up as you go along', isn't it?

Gynoid

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Oh OK then - so you're saying that every child being treated worldwide is part of the 'online hot house' that you mentioned earlier.

And you're referring to worldwide figures.

And you still have no source for your claims about the number of children or the number of clinics.

So it's really just 'make it up as you go along', isn't it?

Wrong. Incorrect.
Im done replying to you and your bluster. Readers can decide for themselves. Ciao.

mcmoustache

brendanwalsh wrote: »

You cannot biologically change your gender at any point in life.

Born a man, you’ll die a man.

He is saying that you can legally change gender. He's not wrong about that - it's a verifiable fact. It's also important to understand that legally changing gender is not the same as biologically doing so. They are two very different things.

AndrewJRenko

Gynoid wrote: »

Wrong. Incorrect.
Im done replying to you and your bluster. Readers can decide for themselves. Ciao.

It might be hard for them to decide when you don't quote your sources.

Brian?

mcmoustache wrote: »

He is saying that you can legally change gender. He's not wrong about that - it's a verifiable fact. It's also important to understand that legally changing gender is not the same as biologically doing so. They are two very different things.

Exactly.

ingalway

Great article by Janice Turner in the UK Weekend Times, best weekend paper by far IMO.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3abdbb6e-186b-11ea-9c0b-093df0cbf5ab
You can read full article with email address.

One eyed Jack

ingalway wrote: »

Great article by Janice Turner in the UK Weekend Times, best weekend paper by far IMO.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3abdbb6e-186b-11ea-9c0b-093df0cbf5ab
You can read full article with email address.

And a subscription

I wanted to read the article but I don’t think it’s worth paying a subscription for an opinion piece tbh. Scientific and medical journals yes, but an opinion? Get plenty of those for free

(sometimes I think people go to the effort of posting their sources and people don’t bother reading them, I do read them, and I appreciate the effort at least)

Brian?

ingalway wrote: »

Great article by Janice Turner in the UK Weekend Times, best weekend paper by far IMO.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3abdbb6e-186b-11ea-9c0b-093df0cbf5ab
You can read full article with email address.

You have a subscription? Can you ctrl-c/ctrl v the whole article here??

Gynoid

Gynoid wrote: »

Examples
Womens sports usurped
Male bodied rapists in womens prison in Ireland
Women being refered to as pregnant people instead of mothers in the Dail post repeal referendum.
Sex ed that teaches children erroneously that they could be born in the wrong body
Use of experimental and dangerous drugs on scores of children from Ireland refered to Tavistock
Etc etc
.

and death threats for any women who disagree. or shutting down anything a woman says in many places because 'terf'. not men, just women.

and insisting lesbians should 're-examine their genital preferences'. 1950s homophobia gay conversion **** all over again.



Anyway as for JY, this is the legal consequence of self id laws. JY says JY is female so you don't get to say some people who self id are trolls and some people who self id aren't. that's the whole point.

Gynoid wrote: »

Yaniv does not represent ordinary transgender people who due to gender dysphoria wish to live their lives as the opposite gender from their birth sex. I have watched and read material from many reasonable, kind and well intentioned transgender people, and they just want to live their lives quietly and with the dignity and respect to which everyone is entitled.

If the trans people you know, your friends, support the following however, in my opinion they are not entitled to their beliefs or political activities being respected.

If they do not recognise that there is an unusually inflated cohort of very neurotic and vicious public figures within the trans community who threaten women and bring the trans cause into disrepute, and if they do not challenge and disavow these figureheads, then others have the right to robustly do so.

If they support the erasure of language pertaining to the female sex, such as woman or mother, and think that women can be refered to in official, health promotion or advertising literature as pregnant people, cervix havers, chest feeders or menstruators, for example, then they are wrong and can be challenged robustly.

If they support they erasure of single sex spaces such as in rape shelters, womens refuges, public toilets, same sex hospital wards, single sex sports then their opinions are not entitled to be respected and may in good conscience be robustly challenged. Reasonable trans people are advocating now for third spaces that respect the hard won sex based rights of women and they have my full support and appreciation.

If your trans friends support education in schools that promotes the false ideology of gender theory including telling children they may have been born in the wrong body or popularising idiotic phrases like "assigned male or female at birth" etc then their opinions are not entitled to respect and they may be robustly challenged.

If your friends in the trans community support the chemical sterilisation of gender questioning and often otherwise vulnerable children via pubertal blockers which arrest their brain development, lower IQ, cause bone density and cardio vascular problems, stunt their reproductive organs, render them impotent, then their opinions are entitled to be robustly challenged. Any trans person who cheers on radical surgery on a teenagers body can be challenged for the extremity, cruelty and unreasonableness of their political belief.

Trans people who are good and reasonable are not represented by the hideous Yaniv, but it is also late in the day for good trans people and their allies to start to disavow radical trans ideology and the horrific damage it does to vulnerable people and the subversion of reason it demands via political coercion of society.

But better late than never.

well said

ingalway

Brian? wrote: »

You have a subscription? Can you ctrl-c/ctrl v the whole article here??

Hi. Sorry I don't have a subscription. I'm so old that I actually buy the paper! I'll take photos later and post if they can be read.

One eyed Jack

bluewolf wrote: »

and death threats for any women who disagree. or shutting down anything a woman says in many places because 'terf'. not men, just women.

and insisting lesbians should 're-examine their genital preferences'. 1950s homophobia gay conversion **** all over again.

Anyway as for JY, this is the legal consequence of self id laws. JY says JY is female so you don't get to say some people who self id are trolls and some people who self id aren't. that's the whole point.


well said

Recognising JY as a troll has nothing to do with their preferred gender though, it’s their behaviour and their attitudes towards other people is the reason they are a troll. Their behaviour and attitude towards other people has nothing to do with self-ID laws any more than Katie Hopkins behaviours and attitudes have anything to do with self-ID laws. It has to do with the fact that they’re simply a troll. JY’s latest stunt is nothing more than an attempt at more of the same sort of behaviour.

The principles and intent of human rights law and civil rights law is based upon people acting in good faith and with the intent of recognising the inherent dignity and inalienable rights of all members of a society governed by those laws.

What Gynoid is arguing for and what a few people on this thread have tried to use in their arguments is a form of identity politics referred to as respectability politics, the idea that people who are entitled to their human and civil rights have to behave a certain way that is deemed acceptable and appropriate by other people’s standards, a complete contradiction to the whole idea of human rights and civil rights law.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

the idea that people who are entitled to their human and civil rights have to behave a certain way that is deemed acceptable and appropriate by other people’s standards, a complete contradiction to the whole idea of human rights and civil rights law.

Unfettered, sounds like a pedophile charter.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Unfettered, sounds like a pedophile charter.

Human rights and civil rights law says nothing about unfettered? Did you miss the part where I said that the principles of human rights and civil rights law are based upon people acting in good faith towards other people?

It’s understandable that your mind immediately jumped to it sounds like a paedophile charter, but that’s an entirely different context to the context in which human rights and civil rights law are proposed.

ingalway

Trans murder rates "remarkably low" despite constantly being told it's much higher than all others
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/8/transgender-homicide-rate-remarkably-low-despite-h/

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Unfettered, sounds like a pedophile charter.

Why does paedophilia always come into this debate?????

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

bluewolf wrote: »

and death threats for any women who disagree. or shutting down anything a woman says in many places because 'terf'. not men, just women.

and insisting lesbians should 're-examine their genital preferences'. 1950s homophobia gay conversion **** all over again.



Anyway as for JY, this is the legal consequence of self id laws. JY says JY is female so you don't get to say some people who self id are trolls and some people who self id aren't. that's the whole point.

Did you read about the Guardian blind date recently where it was two lesbians, one was formerly a man. The situation isn’t that objectionable except that the biological woman wasn’t informed of that beforehand. In fairness, she has said that she doesn’t want to dragged into any agenda on either side but when you read the interview with the two, she is artfully non-committal. What a horrible situation to be put in. No wonder she’s keeping shtum because she can’t win. Her date insinuated on Twitter that she cancelled the second date because she was formerly a he. She was very salty about being rated 8/10 by the biological woman but the next date then being cancelled. The entitlement.

And the TERF thing drives me nuts. I don’t even call myself a feminist and have some problems with the movement. But a fire is being stoked inside me by all of this.

Gynoid

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Did you read about the Guardian blind date recently where it was two lesbians, one was formerly a man. The situation isn’t that objectionable except that the biological woman wasn’t informed of that beforehand. In fairness, she has said that she doesn’t want to dragged into any agenda on either side but when you read the interview with the two, she is artfully non-committal. What a horrible situation to be put in. No wonder she’s keeping shtum because she can’t win. Her date insinuated on Twitter that she cancelled the second date because she was formerly a he. She was very salty about being rated 8/10 by the biological woman but the next date then being cancelled. The entitlement.

And the TERF thing drives me nuts. I don’t even call myself a feminist and have some problems with the movement. But a fire is being stoked inside me by all of this.

Keep her lit!
That poor girl on the Guardian blind date was subjected to online public abuse.
A new organisation has broken away from Stonewall called LGB Alliance and led by the founder of Stonewall because of the dogs abuse lesbians are getting for liking ...well...fannies, basically!
If you were writing a movie people would call you daft if you made this stuff up.

AndrewJRenko

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Did you read about the Guardian blind date recently where it was two lesbians, one was formerly a man. The situation isn’t that objectionable except that the biological woman wasn’t informed of that beforehand. In fairness, she has said that she doesn’t want to dragged into any agenda on either side

Eh, that's not actually what she said.

Here's what she actually said:

https://twitter.com/aigroe/status/1199431598929784838

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Eh, that's not actually what she said.

Here's what she actually said:

https://twitter.com/aigroe/status/1199431598929784838

Yeah, oops, I got the wording wrong. The whole thing still bears discussion with or without the biological female partaking. It’s a widely read newspaper and people can form opinions about what they read and comment. Sometimes debate is generated. That’s how it works. She shouldn’t be spoken for but she can’t stop others talking about the issue.

Brian?

bluewolf wrote: »

and death threats for any women who disagree. or shutting down anything a woman says in many places because 'terf'. not men, just women.

and insisting lesbians should 're-examine their genital preferences'. 1950s homophobia gay conversion **** all over again.



Anyway as for JY, this is the legal consequence of self id laws. JY says JY is female so you don't get to say some people who self id are trolls and some people who self id aren't. that's the whole point.




well said

Anyone who tells anyone else who they can or cannot be attracted to is a complete idiot who doesn’t deserve any attention.

ingalway

Originally Posted by Obvious Desperate Breakfasts View Post
Did you read about the Guardian blind date recently where it was two lesbians, one was formerly a man. The situation isn’t that objectionable...

My version of that is:
Did you read about the Guardian blind date recently where it was a young lesbian and a man who self ID's as a woman and as a lesbian. The situation is completely objectionable to many lesbians

It actually disgusts me that this happened. A young lesbian is set up on a date with a biological male dressed as a woman as some kind of social experiment - it's entrapment and devious.
It just keeps the insidious idea going that we have to see past sex and it's only the gender that matters - gay people are same SEX attracted, gender and how you want to express it has NOTHING to do with it.
I think most people here have already agreed that nobody can change their sex, they can declare their gender different. It should not be controversial then that it's highly unlikely that a lesbian would want a sexual relationship with a trans woman. There should be no guilt or shame and no transphobe/terf namecalling to those who are honest about this.
As much as the young lesbian said she had a great time on the date, she cancelled the second date.

ceadaoin.

Brian? wrote: »

Anyone who tells anyone else who they can or cannot be attracted to is a complete idiot who doesn’t deserve any attention.

Stonewall, the biggest support network for LGTB people in the UK, has been labeling women bigots for a while now. Are they complete idiots who dont deserve attention? Or perhaps a sign of an institutional problem with misogyny and ironically for an LGBT organisation, homophobia?

Brian?

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Stonewall, the biggest support network for LGTB people in the UK, has been labeling women bigots for a while now. Are they complete idiots who dont deserve attention? Or perhaps a sign of an institutional problem with misogyny and ironically for an LGBT organisation, homophobia?

They're labelling lesbians bigots for not being attracted to trans women? Can you link something to that effect? If it's true I'll be directing my ire at them.

Gynoid

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Stonewall, the biggest support network for LGTB people in the UK, has been labeling women bigots for a while now. Are they complete idiots who dont deserve attention? Or perhaps a sign of an institutional problem with misogyny and ironically for an LGBT organisation, homophobia?

The lesbian thing is really where the contradictions started to unravel for many (although I must admit for me, it was the drugging of young children, often autistic children).
If a male bodied transwoman is woman enough to be in a female prison, if a male bodied transwoman is woman enough to be in a female rape shelter, sports field, changing room, shower space etc etc, and woman enough to be on female literary short lists, or female business awards, or female political quotas, then why is a male bodied transwoman not woman enough to be a lesbian? That is why I ask male trans activist allies if they would date a transwoman and if not, why not. Because the woman enough for all other things is being shoved down our throats by the same people who say by their silence that the male bodied transwomen are not woman enough to be lesbians. That is cognitive dissonance.

Gynoid

Brian? wrote: »

They're labelling lesbians bigots for not being attracted to trans women? Can you link something to that effect? If it's true I'll be directing my ire at them.

Are you not aware of that? I thought you knew a lot about all this. It is quite prominent.

Gynoid

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/lgb-alliance-group-transphobic-alison-bailey-lesbian-gay-bisexual-a9169091.html

One of the founders of Stonewall founded this LGB alliance.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

ingalway wrote: »

Originally Posted by Obvious Desperate Breakfasts View Post
Did you read about the Guardian blind date recently where it was two lesbians, one was formerly a man. The situation isn’t that objectionable...

My version of that is:
Did you read about the Guardian blind date recently where it was a young lesbian and a man who self ID's as a woman and as a lesbian. The situation is completely objectionable to many lesbians

It actually disgusts me that this happened. A young lesbian is set up on a date with a biological male dressed as a woman as some kind of social experiment - it's entrapment and devious.
It just keeps the insidious idea going that we have to see past sex and it's only the gender that matters - gay people are same SEX attracted, gender and how you want to express it has NOTHING to do with it.
I think most people here have already agreed that nobody can change their sex, they can declare their gender different. It should not be controversial then that it's highly unlikely that a lesbian would want a sexual relationship with a trans woman. There should be no guilt or shame and no transphobe/terf namecalling to those who are honest about this.
As much as the young lesbian said she had a great time on the date, she cancelled the second date.

And was almost comically non-committal in her answers. Basically, she had to play nice to avoid hassle. Not a nice thing to do to her.

ShaunC

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a gynaecologist is trained in dealing with a woman's vagina....!

A trans person who was a male and now identifies as female doesn't have a vagina! They essentially have a penis turned inside out.

By all means go see a specialist who knows what they are doing and is trained in dealing with a trans persons body modifications.

But go **** right off strolling into a gynaecologist and demanding to be seen, you don't have a vagina and never will you twat.

Is calling them a twat not saying they are a vagina:rolleyes:

Gynoid

"Discretion had been essential because when homosexual people declare themselves to be attracted to the same sex, as opposed to the same gender, they risk being attacked and shamed as transphobic bigots"
Debbie Hayton, transwoman, reporting on the first meeting of the LGB Alliance which she attended as a guest speaker.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/in-defence-of-the-lgb-alliance/

statesaver

Brian? wrote: »

Why does paedophilia always come into this debate?????

In ' her ' case it may be warranted.