Interesting Maps

Ten of Swords

Back on topic please, riveting as your 3 page sniping match is :rolleyes:

Gregor Samsa

Mullinabreena wrote: »

Dublin 1833

Great map. You can see the city bound by the North Circular and South Circular roads (both just called "Circular Road" on this). Same as the M50 was to effectively bound the city when it was first envisaged. I wonder when and where the next ring road will be built around the city?

My grandfather on my mother's side was born and raised just off Pearse Street (Shaw Villas) in the 1900s. In the late 20s and early 30s, he worked on the construction of Mario Church, and then when the (then) council houses in Marino were built, he and my grandmother got one. His mother was distraught that he was moving "out the country" and thought she'd never see him again.

My dad was born in Donnycarney. By the time he was young, the city had expanded out, and Collins Avenue was the limit. His father used to mainly drink in The Refuge pub on the Malahide road (inside the city area), but on Sundays he'd go up to The Goblet in Artane, because it was in Co. Dublin then, and subject to different licencing laws.

josip

Mullinabreena wrote: »

Dublin 1833

I see it included the Kingstown Railroad, the construction contract for which was signed in May 1833.

Shedite27

While we're on the topic of Dublin addresses, that's the official line as to the boundaries between suburbs? Is there any map or one source of truth that An Post or something use?

I live at an intersection of Drumcondra, Whitehall, Marino and Beaumont, never really knew what to refer to it as. Address says Drumcondra but have a feeling it falls into the same scenario of neighbours wanting to be fancy

Gregor Samsa

Shedite27 wrote: »

I live at an intersection of Drumcondra, Whitehall, Marino and Beaumont, never really knew what to refer to it as. Address says Drumcondra but have a feeling it falls into the same scenario of neighbours wanting to be fancy

Here's the official boundaries of the Townland of Drumcondra (not to be confused with the much larger Electoral Division of Drumcondra).



here's the map. You can find any townland, electoral division or Civil Parish you want. Often they vary from the Catholic Church Parish of the same name, so things can get confusing.

https://www.townlands.ie/dublin/coolock/clonturk/drumcondra/drumcondra/


You can even see on that map that Drumcondra is labeled much further south than the actual boundaries of the Townland. The area names in common usage are really nebulous.

For instance, the official Townland of Donnycarney doesn't include half of what the locals regard as Donnycarney. It even stops half way up Donnycarney Road (the road was extended at some point after Belton Park was built in the 1930s.), and much of the area locals call Donnycarney is officially in the townland of Artane South, which is a name no-one uses at all.

https://www.townlands.ie/dublin/coolock/clonturk/clontarf-west/donnycarney/

Hodors Appletart

Shedite27 wrote: »

have a feeling it falls into the same scenario of neighbours wanting to be fancy

This is correct really, especially where new housing is concerned.

retalivity

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Great map. You can see the city bound by the North Circular and South Circular roads (both just called "Circular Road" on this). Same as the M50 was to effectively bound the city when it was first envisaged. I wonder when and where the next ring road will be built around the city?

Planning was underway, then shelved til at least 2035 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Orbital_Route
This map below is apparently from boards from 2009!

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/nov2009/dublinroadmap.png

Shedite27

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Here's the official boundaries of the Townland of Drumcondra (not to be confused with the much larger Electoral Division of Drumcondra).



here's the map. You can find any townland, electoral division or Civil Parish you want. Often they vary from the Catholic Church Parish of the same name, so things can get confusing.

https://www.townlands.ie/dublin/coolock/clonturk/drumcondra/drumcondra/

You can even see on that map that Drumcondra is labeled much further south than the actual boundaries of the Townland. The area names in common usage are really nebulous.

For instance, the official Townland of Donnycarney doesn't include half of what the locals regard as Donnycarney. It even stops half way up Donnycarney Road (the road was extended at some point after Belton Park was built in the 1930s.), and much of the area locals call Donnycarney is officially in the townland of Artane South, which is a name no-one uses at all.

https://www.townlands.ie/dublin/coolock/clonturk/clontarf-west/donnycarney/

Thanks, turns out I live in Goosegreen. Never seen that on a sign or address. I guess that's where the local pub gets its name
https://www.facebook.com/TheGooseTavern/

retalivity

Ah here, Croke Park and GAA HQ is in a townland called "Lovescharity"? Really??

Chet T16

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Here's the official boundaries of the Townland of Drumcondra (not to be confused with the much larger Electoral Division of Drumcondra).

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=552324&stc=1&d=1620216049

here's the map. You can find any townland, electoral division or Civil Parish you want. Often they vary from the Catholic Church Parish of the same name, so things can get confusing.

https://www.townlands.ie/dublin/coolock/clonturk/drumcondra/drumcondra/


You can even see on that map that Drumcondra is labeled much further south than the actual boundaries of the Townland. The area names in common usage are really nebulous.

For instance, the official Townland of Donnycarney doesn't include half of what the locals regard as Donnycarney. It even stops half way up Donnycarney Road (the road was extended at some point after Belton Park was built in the 1930s.), and much of the area locals call Donnycarney is officially in the townland of Artane South, which is a name no-one uses at all.

https://www.townlands.ie/dublin/coolock/clonturk/clontarf-west/donnycarney/

That map source is very interesting (imagine!). The place I stayed briefly which had Marino in the address at least twice isn't actually Marino. I mocked the petrol station up the road for labeling itself as Clontarf but it turns out that was more correct!

Gregor Samsa

Shedite27 wrote: »

Thanks, turns out I live in Goosegreen. Never seen that on a sign or address. I guess that's where the local pub gets its name
https://www.facebook.com/TheGooseTavern/

Ah, the Goozer! I know it well. Yeah, no-one calls the area Goosegreen, but that's the official name.

magicbastarder

there's also a gooseacre beside the botanic gardens.

PommieBast

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

while using wikipedia as a source is problematic they didn't even do that right. There are 2 dots in New Zealand when there were at least 8 separate wars between the british and the maori over a period of more than 25 years.

Noticed that huge burst that corresponded with the English civil war and did wonder about the bias in the sources..

Gregor Samsa

I've been looking for any kind of enclaves (using the term loosely) within Ireland, and the nearest I've come is these three:

First up, Drummully, Co. Monaghan (aka Coleman's Island). Only accessible by road via Northern Ireland (Co. Fermanagh), and so the only one with an international border.



Secondly, the "tied island" of Aughinish, in north Co. Clare, which is only accessible by road via Co. Galway.



And thirdly, Co. Letrim, which you cannot travel (by road) from north to south of without going into either Co. Cavan or Co. Roscommon (Lough Allen and the river Shannon are in the way).



Does anyone have any others?

Mullinabreena

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Does anyone have any others?

This bit of Co Sligo that cuts into Roscomon

Mullinabreena

Anyone notice that Google maps in China doesn't line up with the satellite imagery?

blackwhite

Mullinabreena wrote: »

Anyone notice that Google maps in China doesn't line up with the satellite imagery?

[IMG][/img]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_data_in_China

chooseusername

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

I've been looking for any kind of enclaves (using the term loosely) within Ireland, and the nearest I've come is these three:

First up, Drummully, Co. Monaghan (aka Coleman's Island). Only accessible by road via Northern Ireland (Co. Fermanagh), and so the only one with an international border.


Does anyone have any others?

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1276531,-8.0760538,13.78z
Waterford / Cork border,
Looks like a loop the loop but on a closer look it's open at the narrow point.

magicbastarder

i assume this border here reflects a now straightened meandering river system?

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.591971,-6.2827753,242m/data=!3m1!1e3

BonnieSituation

chooseusername wrote: »

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1276531,-8.0760538,13.78z
Waterford / Cork border,
Looks like a loop the loop but on a closer look it's open at the narrow point.

Always loved that spot. Fascinates me.

We also have the madness of Ferrybank, Co Waterford...

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2671236,-7.107433,15z

The bridge stopping it being a true enclave of Kilkenny.

chooseusername

magicbastarder wrote: »

i assume this border here reflects a now straightened meandering river system?

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.591971,-6.2827753,242m/data=!3m1!1e3

The river has straightened out a bit,
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=552363&stc=1&d=1620244273

alias no.9

bubblypop wrote: »

The only even number north of the liffey is D8, the phoenix park is in Dublin 8.

Dublin 20 crosses the Liffey too

BonnieSituation

alias no.9 wrote: »

Dublin 20 crosses the Liffey too

Don't mention the war

Gregor Samsa

magicbastarder wrote: »

i assume this border here reflects a now straightened meandering river system?

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.591971,-6.2827753,242m/data=!3m1!1e3

I’m fascinated by borders that are or were based on the course of a river. They make perfect sense, because rivers seem like ageless, immutable natural frontiers that can be relied on to define the edge of your territory in perpetuity. But actually they’re dynamic, evolving features that have their own agenda.

magicbastarder

chooseusername wrote: »

The river has straightened out a bit,
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=552363&stc=1&d=1620244273

cheers - not that there's anything at stake, but i wonder whether the new path of the river would still functionally be regarded as the border?

i.e. if i put in a planning application for something which *was* on the dublin side of the river but is now on the meath side, would common sense or the old map prevail?

chooseusername

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

I’m fascinated by borders that are or were based on the course of a river. They make perfect sense, because rivers seem like ageless, immutable natural frontiers that can be relied on to define the edge of your territory in perpetuity. But actually they’re dynamic, evolving features that have their own agenda.

One of the few things I remember from geography,
how the meanders straighten out over time.

alias no.9

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Don't mention the war

Appologies, I replied as I was reading, I've since seen the carnage.

Speedsie

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

I've been looking for any kind of enclaves (using the term loosely) within Ireland, and the nearest I've come is these three:

Does anyone have any others?

It's more of an ecclesiastical exclave, and I've no idea how I'd find a map of it, but the parish church of Seirkieran is officially part of the diocese of Cashel, Ferns & Ossory (part of Mountrath Union), but it is fully contained within the diocesan boundaries of Limerick, Killaloe & Ardfert.

Barna77

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

I’m fascinated by borders that are or were based on the course of a river. They make perfect sense, because rivers seem like ageless, immutable natural frontiers that can be relied on to define the edge of your territory in perpetuity. But actually they’re dynamic, evolving features that have their own agenda.

Clearly seen in some US state borders on the Mississippi river.
The river has bent and cut off over and over again, creating some state pocket islands over time.

BonnieSituation

magicbastarder wrote: »

cheers - not that there's anything at stake, but i wonder whether the new path of the river would still functionally be regarded as the border?

i.e. if i put in a planning application for something which *was* on the dublin side of the river but is now on the meath side, would common sense or the old map prevail?

Nope. The old map prevails. That being said, the old map has to exist and that's a whole other kettle of fish. We use a non-conclusive boundary system in Ireland and site/deed/land registry maps are merely indicative of what "should exist" or "what did exist" when the map was made.

You can read about that here... https://www.prai.ie/mapping-practice/

This compares with the European "Cadaster" system that uses well-defined mapping to register properties.

There are many reasons for a river changing course and not all of them are natural.

One job I was involved in a few years back was involved in a boundary query for this site at Glasnevin cemetery:




Some time in the mid- to late-90s a storm caused flooding to the north of the cemetery. Remedial works were carried out but as part of the flood defence, the Tolka was re-routed slightly.

This caused great difficulty given the land now bordering the cemetery as part of its "flood-plain" was part of the folio/site directly to the north. It was a mess. A fascinating mess.