How tough is your index 1?

blue note

brick tamland wrote: »

Index 1's seem to always be long par 4s that the average club golfer is not getting home in 2 on a average day.

Struggling to think of any exceptions to that really.

Hollywood Lakes, index 1 is a beast of a par 5. But otherwise yep, pretty much every 1 is a long par 4.

spacecoyote

Both the clubs I've been a member of have long par 4s, early in the round as their Index 1.

In Grange Castle, its the first hole, measures around the 440 mark from the blues. Outside of length, its not an overly tough hole. There's one fairway bunker that is at a good distance to catch tee shots, but generally the fairway is pretty wide & has a broad landing area.

Green is fairly wide & deep too. I always found that if you went out on the back 9 first that it played a lot easier. I would have said that the 16th there, which is the index 2 is really a tougher hole. Again a long par 4, that's usually into the wind. This time there is a water hazard that crosses the fairway that is right on the distance for a good drive, so It basically forces you to lay up short of it, which means you have to hit a much longer approach shot.

In my current club, Castlewarden, its the 3rd hole. Again a long Par 4. Arguably its gotten easier in the last year or so. There was a nice feature tree on the left side of the fairway, and its OOB all down the right, so the landing zone was actually pretty tight to get a line at the hole. But after feedback from the Pros at the Pro-am events, they basically said that the tree was penalising good drives (which is actually a fair point), so it has now been cut down, which makes the tee shot a lot more generous.

Green is protected by bunkering, as well as water features on both sides. the Green itself also slopes pretty hard from back to front, so depending on pin position, if you're caught wrong-sided on your putt, a 2-putt can be pretty difficult.

RoadRunner

St Margarets 4th hole is index 1. About 450y par 4 from the medal tees into prevailing wind. Mostly protected by length. Lots of trees too.

brick tamland

RoadRunner wrote: »

St Margarets 4th hole is index 1. About 450y par 4 from the medal tees into prevailing wind. Mostly protected by length. Lots of trees too.

I always think the 18th is a much harder hole. I know some clubs don't like having the 18th as index 1.

RoadRunner

brick tamland wrote: »

I always think the 18th is a much harder hole. I know some clubs don't like having the 18th as index 1.

Wind direction normally helps on 18 making it a couple of clubs shorter but for me the 18th green is very tricky when putting. I think the 4th is still generally the hardest in the results afterwards.

PARlance

brick tamland wrote: »

I always think the 18th is a much harder hole. I know some clubs don't like having the 18th as index 1.

Iirc, Clubs are advised against having 18 as index 1 for match play reasons (or some clubs will have different indices for match play if 18 is a low index). Along those lines, I think it's normal that front 9 is the odd indices, and the back even indices. Again, I think that's advised but not sure why.

@Space, the 16th in GC would be index 1 if it was a front 9 hole, if you get me...

londonred

brick tamland wrote: »

I always think the 18th is a much harder hole. I know some clubs don't like having the 18th as index 1.

Tough hole I had a swan the last time I played it.

RoadRunner

PARlance wrote: »

Iirc, Clubs are advised against having 18 as index 1 for match play reasons

Doesn't work good for formats where scores carry such as skins. Often the last hole will have a lot riding on it, this gives one person a disproportionate advantage.

PARlance

RoadRunner wrote: »

Doesn't work good for formats where scores carry such as skins. Often the last hole will have a lot riding on it, this gives one person a disproportionate advantage.

I don't think GUI/Congu or whoever's in charge now care too much about skins though.

GreeBo

RoadRunner wrote: »

Doesn't work good for formats where scores carry such as skins. Often the last hole will have a lot riding on it, this gives one person a disproportionate advantage.

Its much more about the higher handicap not getting the benefit of their shot if the match doesnt make it to 18.

TitianGerm

Index 1 in Bunclody is 432 yard dogleg left par 4. From the black tee box it's a very narrow tee shot over a stream through a gap in trees. Large bunker in the landing area unless you play a draw. Over cook that and you have a stream on the left of the fairway with a river further over. Front of the bunker is 150 to the green, back is about 170.

Go to 3.30 here to see a flyover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gvs9Dvc_eA

I've birdied it once after hitting Driver and 3 wood into a strong wind and just making the front of the green. Most times it's a double bogey for me but I'm not great :pac:

willabur

blue note wrote: »

I find the index 1 in my club (corballis) very difficult. I've played in 9 comps there and haven't had a par on it yet. But then I looked on how did I do at the last 5 Sunday comps to get an idea of how others are doing on it. In the last 462 returned scores, there have been 24 pars (no birdies obviously). And on 4 of those 5 days the average score was a double bogey. So the average golfer will have a 5% chance of making a par on that hole judging by recent scores.

But it's a rock hard hole. I'd be above average for distance for my age and handicap and if there's any wind into me even from the forward tees it's pretty much a par 5, because I'll be landing on a tiny part of the fairway if I hit driver. If I'm left overnight I'm in thick links grass and potentially dead. And if I hit an iron off the tee I'm probably left with a wood into the green where I could be dead if I'm long, right or left with it. Short and straight should be okay. Even laying up with my second, it's a tricky green to play into, which makes the bogey a tough score.

Even comparing to the par 5 on the course my average score is .4 lower on the par 5. It's just an easier hole!

How tough are your own index 1s? If you take a quick look on hdid what sort of percentage come away with a par or a birdie on it?

Played Corballis in the Sunday Members Comp just gone, it was brutal. Galeforce wind and rain made it hard to stand on the teebox. Made a 6 and was bloody delighted with it. Was short of the green after a driver, 7 iron & 5 iron

blue note

willabur wrote: »

Played Corballis in the Sunday Members Comp just gone, it was brutal. Galeforce wind and rain made it hard to stand on the teebox. Made a 6 and was bloody delighted with it. Was short of the green after a driver, 7 iron & 5 iron

God, I just had a look online. 10 bogies from 68 attempts, no pars. But even looking at the 3 midweek opens before it there were 4 pars from about 170 attempts, not all into huge winds or from the blues. You'd wonder should it be a par 5 really, but then you've no really tough hole on the course.

slave1

I always play to the par of the hole, but in a comp that is a good example of playing the hole against the field average rather than the par

Goodluck2me

brick tamland wrote: »

I always think the 18th is a much harder hole. I know some clubs don't like having the 18th as index 1.

Same in Citywest where the 18th, especially before it moved to a par 5, was the hardest hole but the 4th was index 1. I’ve never had a 4 on the 18th but parred the 4th pretty regularly.

benny79

Athy Golf club has 1 of the hardest index 1 I have come across its the 16th dogleg right. blind tee shot up a hill but the landing zone is a valley so you are always left with a uphill or down hill lie. lay up of the valley you have 220yds to green, cut the corner and you're in the thick of the trees and oob. The green is like a upside down saucer! very hard to hold and can easliy 3/4 putt bunker 1 side, big drop off the other and oob at the back. Chrissy O 'Connor junior was actually stated as saying the green was ridiculous and they were going to change it as they were getting advice of him at the time but then he passed away.

Kilkea Castles index 1 is 17th hole and a real gem. fairway runs at a 90 deg angle right at about 230 yds from the Tee. The river runs parallel to it. 230yds to clear at the nearest point + gets longer the further right you go. lay up and theres trees blocking out the green. you clear the river and its easy enough depending how far you clear it! Its a very daunting Tee shot especially if the wind is in your face! So much so it cost me the Captains this year

spacecoyote

benny79 wrote: »

Athy Golf club has 1 of the hardest index 1 I have come across its the 16th dogleg right. blind tee shot up a hill but the landing zone is a valley so you are always left with a uphill or down hill lie. lay up of the valley you have 220yds to green, cut the corner and you're in the thick of the trees and oob. The green is like a upside down saucer! very hard to hold and can easliy 3/4 putt bunker 1 side, big drop off the other and oob at the back. Chrissy O 'Connor junior was actually stated as saying the green was ridiculous and they were going to change it as they were getting advice of him at the time but then he passed away.

Kilkea Castles index 1 is 17th hole and a real gem. fairway runs at a 90 deg angle right at about 230 yds from the Tee. The river runs parallel to it. 230yds to clear at the nearest point + gets longer the further right you go. lay up and theres trees blocking out the green. you clear the river and its easy enough depending how far you clear it! Its a very daunting Tee shot especially if the wind is in your face! So much so it cost me the Captains this year

Just missed my birdie putt on the index 1 in Athy with Boards this year. Tapped in for par, thought it was an easy hole

RoadRunner

TitianGerm wrote: »

Index 1 in Bunclody is 432 yard dogleg left par 4.

Lovely stretch of the course. Looking forward to Bunclody next year!

neckedit

13 Druids Glen....... 🙈

fred funk }{

neckedit wrote: »

13 Druids Glen....... ��

One of the best holes in the country.

Wichita Lineman

5th hole index 1 in Moate is a par 4 of 400 metres approx. Sloping mounds on rising fairway can lead to tricky lie even after a good drive. You get blocked by a massive tree if you go left and by younger ones if you are wayward right. I can get down near the green often in 2 but somwhow manage to only land a par occasionally. I haven't birdied it in 2 years though. Maybe next weekend now that I've put it into my head!

Adiaga 2

The index 1 in Silloge Park is a great hole and a very difficult one. It’s a long par 4 dog leg left. You tee up one side of a valley and hit over a stream and some trees. The ideal landing area with a flat lie and a view of the green is about 240 yards. Anything short of this leaves a very difficult second, even a lay-up, due to the uphill lie and the angle of the dog leg. There’s OB left and trees to the right, for your tee shot and approach. The only thing in your favour is that the green is very flat with small shallow bunkers front left and right.

Have made 4 a few times but always one putt pars. It’s the first course I ever played and it remains one of the hardest holes I’ve ever encountered. Interestingly, when the course was 9 holes, this was the index 2. Last time i played it, they seemed to have cut back some of the trees you need to drive over, making the tee shot a little less intimidating.

The current index 2 there is also a really tough hole, demanding a long, very accurate drive.

rickis tache

12th in Galway bay. Par 4 dogleg right with lots of bunkers on right of elbow. 2nd shot over water to a green with water right and bunkers left. Usually drive is into prevailing wind so if you don't make the elbow it's a definite lay up. Birdied it twice when entering my 3 cards for handicap. Rest of the cards were poor. Lol

pakman

Index 1 out in Kilcock just changed from the 4th to the 15th which is an easier hole. 15th plays over water just in front of the green so you need a decent drive and good hit on the second to make it. Nearly everyone in the club lays up as not many can reach so the stats are off imho.

The 4th is much harder. Its uphill, turning right, and its long. If you hit a draw you are aiming at a bunch of trees and the majority of safe fairway finding drives are still 200+ from the front. You are regularly playing into the wind on it too so even the guys making the green on 15 struggle here.

Johnny_Fontane

neckedit wrote: »

13 Druids Glen....... ��

yes, that is a proper index 1. Even if you mill a drive it has to have a little left to right shape. If the wind is into you, its nearly impossible.

Its actually unfair for pretty much most golfers.

PARlance

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

yes, that is a proper index 1. Even if you mill a drive it has to have a little left to right shape. If the wind is into you, its nearly impossible.

Its actually unfair for pretty much most golfers.

Maybe it suited me but I never really found it that bad. That's in the context of a dicussion about really difficult index 1's.

If there's no wind, I don't think it's a driver hole, not from the white/greens anyway. 220-230 from the tee leaves you with about 180, (If you shorten the hole, by favouring the RHS) And the while the approach is intimidating to the eye, there's about 50 yards between the water and middle of the green.

Don't get me wrong, I've struggled on it and it's by no means an easy hole but at the same time, I think it's a very good and fair hole for an index 1. 2 good shots and you've a chip and a putt. Easy, right! 😫

TitianGerm

McCreddin Index 1 is the toughest one I've ever played. Was a lovely hole though.

yuridwyer

PARlance wrote: »

Maybe it suited me but I never really found it that bad. That's in the context of a dicussion about really difficult index 1's.

If there's no wind, I don't think it's a driver hole, not from the white/greens anyway. 220-230 from the tee leaves you with about 180, (If you shorten the hole, by favouring the RHS) And the while the approach is intimidating to the eye, there's about 50 yards between the water and middle of the green.

Don't get me wrong, I've struggled on it and it's by no means an easy hole but at the same time, I think it's a very good and fair hole for an index 1. 2 good shots and you've a chip and a putt. Easy, right! ��

I think if you're standing on the tee box and not sure about it, you tend to aim to left side of the fairway, and you can't go for the green in two from that side, you need to hug the face of the "cliff" if you can.

Druid's Heath Index 1 is a beast, long fade followed by a long draw, if memory serves me correctly.

As for favourites, Tralee's Index 1 (12th I think) is stunning. Walking from the Par 5 11th tee box looking across at the 12th green intimidates the ****e out of you, with the huge drop off on the front. That whole back 9 is just mesmerising in fairness.

PARlance

yuridwyer wrote: »

I think if you're standing on the tee box and not sure about it, you tend to aim to left side of the fairway, and you can't go for the green in two from that side, you need to hug the face of the "cliff" if you can.

Druid's Heath Index 1 is a beast, long fade followed by a long draw, if memory serves me correctly.

As for favourites, Tralee's Index 1 (12th I think) is stunning. Walking from the Par 5 11th tee box looking across at the 12th green intimidates the ****e out of you, with the huge drop off on the front. That whole back 9 is just mesmerising in fairness.

Yip it's the 12th, it would get my vote for hardest index 1, drive is tricky enough and every second shot will be intimidating.

yaboya1

rickis tache wrote: »

12th in Galway bay. Par 4 dogleg right with lots of bunkers on right of elbow. 2nd shot over water to a green with water right and bunkers left. Usually drive is into prevailing wind so if you don't make the elbow it's a definite lay up. Birdied it twice when entering my 3 cards for handicap. Rest of the cards were poor. Lol

You haven't made a great case for its difficulty there