Peter McVerry Trust staff and wages

zerosugarbuzz

Who actually own all the houses provided by the Peter Mc very trust? Is it the Catholic Church?

corner of hells

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Who actually own all the houses provided by the Peter Mc very trust? Is it the Catholic Church?

No , PMVT is a trust , they own the properties, they function as a housing association.

Subcomandante Marcos

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Who actually own all the houses provided by the Peter Mc very trust? Is it the Catholic Church?

The trust own most of the buildings. After that some are rented.
Tulsa/HSE own some, and DCC, Kildare CC, and Wicklow CC own a small minority.

The church owns none of them. In fact the Jesuit order recently gifted several properties in North city centre to the trust for housing.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nobody is saying that any volunteers and frontline staff aren't doing a good job. In fact, the vast majority of us wouldn't do it for twice what you're all being paid. The grievance people have is over the wastefulness that comes with repetition of roles across a number of charities. You don't need (or you wouldn't need) 15 CEOs and 15 boards and 15 sets of counselors etc if there was a centralised unit responsible for all the work currently carried out by the charities.

I posted the following on this exact topic in January:


If the charities really wanted to end homelessness they'd band together to cut costs, saving money in the process and have more to spread out where it is required. Instead, they're competing with each other.

Spot on. 1 charity for homelessness with 1 CEO and 1 advertising budget rather than possibly 10 charities with 10 CEOs and 10 competing advertising campaigns.

Pay the 1 CEO a salary of €200,000 to run this super charity efficiently, and allow more of the donations and government subsidies to go those in need.

corner of hells

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

The trust own most of the buildings. After that some are rented.
Tulsa/HSE own some, and DCC, Kildare CC, and Wicklow CC own a small minority.

The church owns none of them. In fact the Jesuit order recently gifted several properties in North city centre to the trust for housing.

Are you really a subcomandante ?

Subcomandante Marcos

corner of hells wrote: »

Are you really a subcomandante ?

I will be, when the revolution comes.

corner of hells

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I will be, when the revolution comes.

I'd like to be a deputy admiral Subcomandante.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Lets say the disposable income of the people of Ireland is €1,000,000 as an example.

If there is one homeless charity and overheads and wages is €250k, then €750k will go to the people that need it.

If there are 2 homeless charities competing, then €250k will go to those that need it.

4 charities and its down to €0k.

How many homeless "charities" are there currently, even just Dublin based??

You’ve hit the nail on the head. How many “Charities” duplicating the same services? How many of the 10,000 homeless do PMV’s 500 staff support?
As for the starting salary, it may be Dublin rate, but sure as Hell isnt the rate outside the Pale.
All this money and still 10,000 homeless. Heads should be rolling.

El_Duderino 09

weldoninhio wrote: »

It’s fairly simple.

There is a finite amount of money donated. The more “charities” there are, the less of that donated money actually gets to the people it was donated for.

Yeah I think anyone would agree that things like duplication are bad. But if there is 1 charity with x admit costs. and it’s split into 2 charities, the admin costs won’t stay at x level in both charities. There will be some duplication but the admin costs won’t double like they did in your example. That’s why it’s not a good example.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You’ve hit the nail on the head. How many “Charities” duplicating the same services? How many of the 10,000 homeless do PMV’s 500 staff support?
As for the starting salary, it may be Dublin rate, but sure as Hell isnt the rate outside the Pale.
All this money and still 10,000 homeless. Heads should be rolling.

Who’s head should roll?

corner of hells

downtheroad wrote: »

Spot on. 1 charity for homelessness with 1 CEO and 1 advertising budget rather than possibly 10 charities with 10 CEOs and 10 competing advertising campaigns.

Pay the 1 CEO a salary of €200,000 to run this super charity efficiently, and allow more of the donations and government subsidies to go those in need.

I'm not sure that would be feasible, I've moved between charities because I felt their policies weren't viable , that they weren't client centred, weren't value for money and weren't as proactive as they could be.

El_Duderino 09

downtheroad wrote: »

Spot on. 1 charity for homelessness with 1 CEO and 1 advertising budget rather than possibly 10 charities with 10 CEOs and 10 competing advertising campaigns.

Pay the 1 CEO a salary of €200,000 to run this super charity efficiently, and allow more of the donations and government subsidies to go those in need.

Go for it. Sounds really efficient. Now all it needs his you to make it happen just like how people like PMV made their organisations happen.

Idbatterim

I think there is more to robbing the E1 drink to be honest. Where do you draw the line? theft is ok, because it something cheap?

Jimmy Bottlehead

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Who’s head should roll?

I'm also curious about this.

weldoninhio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah I think anyone would agree that things like duplication are bad. But if there is 1 charity with x admit costs. and it’s split into 2 charities, the admin costs won’t stay at x level in both charities. There will be some duplication but the admin costs won’t double like they did in your example. That’s why it’s not a good example.

I'm not talking about splitting it, i'm talking about another "charity" competing with it. Which is whats happening now. You have "charities" paying for radio ads, tv ads etc in order to get the edge over other charities.

El_Duderino 09

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm not talking about splitting it, i'm talking about another "charity" competing with it. Which is whats happening now. You have "charities" paying for radio ads, tv ads etc in order to get the edge over other charities.

Yeah. That’s what’s happening. They all help different groups of people with different needs (some overlapping) and they all pay their own overheads too. Sounds normal, even if sub optimal.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Who’s head should roll?

The CEO for a start. Homelessness is an industry. It thrives on people being classed as homeless. Plenty have been calling for Leo Varadker and his Ministers to be sacked. Yet, the multiple charities are employing almost as many as are homeless. Homelessness is increasing on these CEO’s watch.

weldoninhio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah. That’s what’s happening. They all help different groups of people with different needs (some overlapping) and they all pay their own overheads too. Sounds normal, even if sub optimal.

How do say, Focus and PMVT, two of the largest in Dublin, differentiate? What different groups do they cater for???

Jimmy Bottlehead

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The CEO for a start. Homelessness is an industry. It thrives on people being classed as homeless. Plenty have been calling for Leo Varadker and his Ministers to be sacked. Yet, the multiple charities are employing almost as many as are homeless. Homelessness is increasing on these CEO’s watch.

You mentioned heads, plural. Who's after the CEO?

ThunbergsAreGo

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think there is more to robbing the E1 drink to be honest. Where do you draw the line? theft is ok, because it something cheap?

Of course there is, it's actually astounding it has just been taken at face value

end of the road

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I know many families who have scammed the system.

One couple had the fella move home to his mas for 6 months while she and the kids went homeless.

Got a lovely 2 bed apartment and hey presto he’s back living with them.

This is happening every day all over the country but people are naive and think people aren’t so devious to do things like that.

You will say you don’t believe me. That’s fine. All I can do is tell you what I know and it’s up to you to believe me or not.

have you reported this family to the authorities?
if you are aware of a family claiming something from the state when they aren't entitled to, then you should report it to the authorities so that they can investigate and take action as this is serious business.

corner of hells

weldoninhio wrote: »

How do say, Focus and PMVT, two of the largest in Dublin, differentiate? What different groups do they cater for???

PMVT tend to work with the traditional very chaotic homeless providing STA and ONO accommodation along with now family hubs.

Focus provide a lot more supported housing for people moving out of homeless along working around prevention of homelessness, focus work a lot with younger people 18 to 25 group

PMVT and Focus have drop in services , PMVT also provides some treatment services.

They do overlap but also do a lot of interagency work , an example is placement sustainment, I.e. where an individual may be struggling in one type of service and be at risk of losing their bed who might manage better in another service.

Focus do a lot more outreach boots on the street type interaction with rough sleepers.

end of the road

downtheroad wrote: »

Spot on. 1 charity for homelessness with 1 CEO and 1 advertising budget rather than possibly 10 charities with 10 CEOs and 10 competing advertising campaigns.

Pay the 1 CEO a salary of €200,000 to run this super charity efficiently, and allow more of the donations and government subsidies to go those in need.

okay, so how exactly is this going to be made to happen?
multiple private organisations, how are you going to force them to merge or whatever?
organisations that won't all provide the same services.

Deleted User wrote: »

You’ve hit the nail on the head. How many “Charities” duplicating the same services? How many of the 10,000 homeless do PMV’s 500 staff support?
As for the starting salary, it may be Dublin rate, but sure as Hell isnt the rate outside the Pale.
All this money and still 10,000 homeless. Heads should be rolling.

how and why should heads be rolling given that we already know it's not in the remit of the charities to solve or even end homelessness, but to simply provide services to help and support homeless people, which they do provide?

tayto lover

corner of hells wrote: »

I work as a social care worker in homeless services , I've a degree in social care along with a background in addiction counselling. I earn around about that 37k.

My position is funded , that means I have to accountable for everything I do along with having outcomes.Its based on statistics and KPIs and that's normal for the vast amount of frontline staff.
There's no such thing as money being thrown at homeless services hand over fist.

In regards to duplicity , thats a nice new buzz that emanated from a lot of these Facebook charities that appeared in the last few years when they were being challenged about what they were actually doing.

I get ya. I have no gripe with the frontline staff either, they do great work.

BUT surely there’s a lot of savings to be made on the amount of organisations and wages in the higher echelons by amalgamating these charities. There has to be several thousand paid workers and only 11K homeless. So why the need for all these workers, office staff and CEO’s when it could all be streamlined and the money diverted towards a housing scheme for these homeless people.

I’d love to know how much the total funding is for all these separate organisations.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

okay, so how exactly is this going to be made to happen?
multiple private organisations, how are you going to force them to merge or whatever?
organisations that won't all provide the same services.



how and why should heads be rolling given that we already know it's not in the remit of the charities to solve or even end homelessness, but to simply provide services to help and support homeless people, which they do provide?

The main services they are providing is to the hundreds Of their Employees on €30,000 plus a year.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

okay, so how exactly is this going to be made to happen?
multiple private organisations, how are you going to force them to merge or whatever?

Easy. Cut their funding. "That €20m you used to get and the €15m that went to charity B are now all rolled into one big pot of €35m which is going to new startup 'Govt. Homeless charity C'........no other homeless organisations will receive any backing from taxpayer funds. There are jobs available in this new charity and you are more than welcome to apply, along with all your opposite numbers in the other charities".

El_Duderino 09

weldoninhio wrote: »

How do say, Focus and PMVT, two of the largest in Dublin, differentiate? What different groups do they cater for???

Ive no idea. I presume they both do good work. Maybe you could give up your time to work on a merger.

I won’t give up my time to try to improve either charity. I’ll just appreciate that they both do great work and they’re imperfect and I’ll say fair play to everyone involved even if they are imperfect. What will you do?

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The CEO for a start. Homelessness is an industry. It thrives on people being classed as homeless. Plenty have been calling for Leo Varadker and his Ministers to be sacked. Yet, the multiple charities are employing almost as many as are homeless. Homelessness is increasing on these CEO’s watch.

So just to clarify, you think the CEO (I presume you’re talking about the PMV Trust CEO) is in direct control
Over the number of homeless in the country?

I’ll be honest and say I don’t know the KPIs for the PMVT CEO, but I really doubt that they gave enough control over external factors that lead to homelessness.

In 2017 the PMVT had an operational budget of €24 million. Do you think that’s enough to stop more people becoming homeless?

I genuinely think it’s amazing how some people’s minds work. Here’s a charity that does great work (work I wouldn’t like to do) and done people jump straight to looking for the problems. If they can’t find any big problems like corruption or embezzlement, they will just look for smaller and smaller problems. And here we are with yourself who’s found that they haven’t solved the whole problem yet so “heads should roll”.

Shame on you.

gman2k

Deleted User wrote: »

The CEO for a start. Homelessness is an industry. It thrives on people being classed as homeless. Plenty have been calling for Leo Varadker and his Ministers to be sacked. Yet, the multiple charities are employing almost as many as are homeless. Homelessness is increasing on these CEO’s watch.

Homelessness is increasing on who's watch????
These "CEOs" are not responsible for policies enacted by the governments over the last 10 years. The country was awash with empty NAMA properties yet they weren't given over to social housing.
Vulture and cuckoo funds have hoovered up properties and can pay no tax.
Banks have sold family homes to vulture funds at a discount out from under families who were meeting what the banks wanted yet would not offer these discounts to these families.

I'm finished with this thread and talking to people like you who haven't a clue.

LirW

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The main services they are providing is to the hundreds Of their Employees on €30,000 plus a year.

Okay, how in your opinion are charity services supposed to work?
With all the in-depth explanation provided on who caters what niche doesn't it make sense that it's not that easy to just combine all the charities providing different services?
Why should a charity not have a CEO? Someone needs to be the head of the operation and 120k is f all money for a CEO with loads of responsibility.
Charities do the work that the state isn't bothered doing. I have the feeling many people believe that a charity consists mainly of a few donation boxes, a pot of soup and a few bags of donated clothes. It's not, they provide complex services requiring trained staff, this staff requires administration, it requires accounting, payroll and marketing to get funding to be able to provide services. You need people with know how and they need to be paid.

Now here's the thing: the public that donates gets nothing in return but the feeling that they did a good deed. The vast majority doesn't grasp how complex the services are and how difficult the individuals using the services are. If you don't believe in charity work to begin with, there is little anyone can do to convince you because you will never see a return of investment so to speak.
What you see is: a charity employing people taking care of homeless by giving them soup. What you don't see is the rest: they provide counseling services, intervention services, programs to help people become stable in life. There are many people with issues dipping in and out of homelessness because their lives are an uphill battle and they need long-term help. The state doesn't have these services in the scale needed and relies on private charities to jump in.

I have the feeling people that don't think a lot of charities to begin with, think, because the public is asked to be selfless and charitable and donate money, the staff should be too and provide a full-time job for free. For a charity to work they need money, they only get certain percentages from the state.
And because most of us live secure and sheltered lives we are so detached from the ones that face a life of struggle and hardship it's easy to kick down and see a big money grabbing conspiracy.
I appreciate there are crappy charities out there being a borderline scam. But many aren't and what they do is important.

corner of hells

tayto lover wrote: »

I get ya. I have no gripe with the frontline staff either, they do great work.

BUT surely there’s a lot of savings to be made on the amount of organisations and wages in the higher echelons by amalgamating these charities. There has to be several thousand paid workers and only 11K homeless. So why the need for all these workers, office staff and CEO’s when it could all be streamlined and the money diverted towards a housing scheme for these homeless people.

I’d love to know how much the total funding is for all these separate organisations.

No harm in commenting.
This might give an idea of what the various staff employed .

I'm employed as a social care worker, that means I have a caseload of service users i am responsible for , supporting the day to day running of the accommodation unit i work in are both night and day support workers,project workers, maintenance teams , admin , catering and management.
If you have more than on unit , multiply your teams .

On a higher level you're going to have senior managers, IT, HR,admin ,various types of counsellors and support staff.

Include too ,relief and part-time staff.

All different skillset,roles and salaries.
That might give you an idea of staffing levels.

Ronin247

Ronin247 wrote: »

There are 189,000 employees in the charity sector in Ireland. There are approximately 10,000 registered charities. There are 300,000 unpaid volunteers

Homeless charities have approximately 2000 employees, even though there are only a few hundred sleeping rough nationwide.

If the average salary for working in the homeless "industry " is €37,000 then considering there are a lot of families in the numbers, we could probably fund 3 homes at a rent of €1000 per month from each salary, 2000 x 3 homes is 6000 homes..... no more homeless people.

Let me say there are a large number of very good people who work in these charities and I dont wish to tar them all with the same brush but it is an industry.

Where are you renting a home for 1,000 a month?

weldoninhio

Deleted User wrote: »

Easy. Cut their funding. "That €20m you used to get and the €15m that went to charity B are now all rolled into one big pot of €35m which is going to new startup 'Govt. Homeless charity C'........no other homeless organisations will receive any backing from taxpayer funds. There are jobs available in this new charity and you are more than welcome to apply, along with all your opposite numbers in the other charities".

Exactly, the govt could change it tomorrow if they wanted. They are the ones that legislate on charity licenses and provide the grant money.

corner of hells

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Easy. Cut their funding. "That €20m you used to get and the €15m that went to charity B are now all rolled into one big pot of €35m which is going to new startup 'Govt. Homeless charity C'........no other homeless organisations will receive any backing from taxpayer funds. There are jobs available in this new charity and you are more than welcome to apply, along with all your opposite numbers in the other charities".

Sounds great, will I have to work Christmas day ?

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So just to clarify, you think the CEO (I presume you’re talking about the PMV Trust CEO) is in direct control
Over the number of homeless in the country?

I’ll be honest and say I don’t know the KPIs for the PMVT CEO, but I really doubt that they gave enough control over external factors that lead to homelessness.

In 2017 the PMVT had an operational budget of €24 million. Do you think that’s enough to stop more people becoming homeless?

I genuinely think it’s amazing how some people’s minds work. Here’s a charity that does great work (work I wouldn’t like to do) and done people jump straight to looking for the problems. If they can’t find any big problems like corruption or embezzlement, they will just look for smaller and smaller problems. And here we are with yourself who’s found that they haven’t solved the whole problem yet so “heads should roll”.

Shame on you.

Add that 24 million to the millions being used by all the other charities and you’ve got a pretty hefty pot. Then, bring all homeless charities together as one organisation. Immediately savings will be made in the eradication of the duplication of services, offices, etc.

It just beggars belief that of the approximate €25,000,000 operating funds, €20,000,000 goes on staff wages, training, etc.

corner of hells

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The main services they are providing is to the hundreds Of their Employees on €30,000 plus a year.

You're fixated with that 30k .

Starting fulltime salaries where I work are 25k, theres part-time contacts of 16k and relief on an hourly rate.

Obviously team leaders and various managers are paid more.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Add that 24 million to the millions being used by all the other charities and you’ve got a pretty hefty pot. Then, bring all homeless charities together as one organisation. Immediately savings will be made in the eradication of the duplication of services, offices, etc.

It just beggars belief that of the approximate €25,000,000 operating funds, €20,000,000 goes on staff wages, training, etc.

It seems like you’ve got a pretty solid plan there. Now all it needs is someone to dedicate their time and effort to making it happen- the same way people made the PMVT and all the other charities happen.

Be sure to let us know how you get on ... unless you’re just sitting on the sidelines sniping at the ones who actually do the work you like to critique.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

In 2017 the PMVT had an operational budget of €24 million. Do you think that’s enough to stop more people becoming homeless?

Shame on you.

Not when they spunk €15 million of it on wages, no it won't.

corner of hells wrote: »

Sounds great, will I have to work Christmas day ?

With a bit of luck, we'll eradicate homelessness altogether and you'll never have to work again! Won't that be fantastic!

corner of hells

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not when they spunk €15 million of it on wages, no it won't.



With a bit of luck, we'll eradicate homelessness altogether and you'll never have to work again! Won't that be fantastic!

Any timescale of when this plan might happen?

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not when they spunk €15 million of it on wages, no it won't.



With a bit of luck, we'll eradicate homelessness altogether and you'll never have to work again! Won't that be fantastic!

Lol. Spunked on wages. I don’t know about you, but I work for money. What do you in exchange for?

I’m sure that other poster would just get another job same as everyone else in the industry. So what? Industries grow and collapse all the time. People just get new jobs or they don’t. If you’re suggesting the social workers are afraid their careers depend on homelessness and are working to keep people homeless, then I think you’re scratching around for a reason to oppose the great work they’re doing.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Can't quite tell if some posters are just trolling, or they're unable to grasp what they're being told...

I love the childishly simply solutions put forth; just combine the charities. Just cut the wages.

Easy. Duh.

corner of hells

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Can't quite tell if some posters are just trolling, or they're unable to grasp what they're being told...

I love the childishly simply solutions put forth; just combine the charities. Just cut the wages.

Easy. Duh.

I'm looking forward to the mega charity.

El_Duderino 09

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Can't quite tell if some posters are just trolling, or they're unable to grasp what they're being told...

I love the childishly simply solutions put forth; just combine the charities. Just cut the wages.

Easy. Duh.

If they’re so “charitable” why are they asking for wages? Huh? Answer me that.

Seriously, the urge to diminish the great work these people do is a fascinating aspect of human nature.

Jimmy Bottlehead

corner of hells wrote: »

I'm looking forward to the mega charity.

The Simon McVerry dePaul Focus on Helping Homelessness charity? Me too.

Plumbthedepths

Simple solution let the government assume back responsibility for all the services provided by NGO's and the charity sector. Will be more expensive but once it placates the whingers win win.

zerosugarbuzz

Deleted User wrote: »

Add that 24 million to the millions being used by all the other charities and you’ve got a pretty hefty pot. Then, bring all homeless charities together as one organisation. Immediately savings will be made in the eradication of the duplication of services, offices, etc.

It just beggars belief that of the approximate €25,000,000 operating funds, €20,000,000 goes on staff wages, training, etc.

I agree, that is quite shocking, it would be bad enough if it was those figures in reverse. @ 30k per head that would be 666 employees...

El_Duderino 09

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

The Simon McVerry dePaul Focus on Helping Homelessness charity? Me too.

You mean the The Simon McVerry dePaul Focus on Helping Homelessness, maryanne84, $hifty charity.

Since they’re bringing the massive ideas, I Think they deserve to get some recognition.

corner of hells

corner of hells wrote: »

Any timescale of when this plan might happen?

Tomorrow, teatime.

Or, y'know within the next year or two if we stopped subsidising the various organisations that are creaming it off the homeless industry.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

(1) Lol. Spunked on wages. I don’t know about you, but I work for money. What do you in exchange for?

I’m sure that other poster would just get another job same as everyone else in the industry. So what? Industries grow and collapse all the time. People just get new jobs or they don’t. (2) If you’re suggesting the social workers are afraid their careers depend on homelessness and are working to keep people homeless, then I think you’re scratching around for a reason to oppose the great work they’re doing.

(1) have a read back over my posts in this thread. Nobody is suggesting people work for nothing, in fact I've already indicated I wouldn't do what they do for twice the pay. The fact remains, there are people making a living off the homelessness issue. I have a suspicion that this is partly the reason for our definition of what is considered "homeless" and why it is so out of whack with the rest of the civilised world.

Literally millions is being thrown at this problem, and in the very recent past this wasn't enough to even cover the wages. These charity workers are, essentially, civil servants. There is plenty of room to trim the fat.

(2) Nobody is suggesting that they are keeping people on the streets on purpose, don't put words in my mouth, please. But too many people have a vested interest and are making too much money for it to be solved overnight.

eviltwin

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Can't quite tell if some posters are just trolling, or they're unable to grasp what they're being told...

I love the childishly simply solutions put forth; just combine the charities. Just cut the wages.

Easy. Duh.

Sure all we do is make cups of tea and hand out blankets. Could probably train a dog to do it for free :rolleyes:

corner of hells

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Simple solution let the government assume back responsibility for all the services provided by NGO's and the charity sector. Will be more expensive but once it placates the whingers win win.

Good idea , it could be run like the HSE..... erm no forget bout that, ya know waiting lists, trolleys etc.
Maybe like the defence forces, no forget that too staffing levels , pay etc.