Trevor Deely case - new witness

KWAG2019

tara73 wrote: »

yes, and why is there only one still image available? there must be footage of what they did at the gate, when they arrived, did they talk to MIB, how they left. It's just: they were work colleagues-alright, no more questions from anybody. why not?

Because the police ask the questions and determined 19 years ago the others should be eliminated from enquiries. It’s not the place of posters with no access to the full information to set aside police conclusions. These people are irrelevant to the TD disappearance.

Fiftyfilthy

I don’t wish to sound disrespectful but td’s father has said in the last 24hrs that any altercation with a gang is nonsense. They also don’t believe suicide either, so I wonder what they must think ?

Fr Tod Umptious

sugarman wrote: »

Donal McIntyre / TV3 some how got hold of the full footage before the guards released it and showed in it their documentary.

I've never seen the TV3 documentary but according to the old thread it was terrible.

Full of inaccuracies.

Apparently they misidentified the two colleagues at the gate that were getting the gear bag.

They also had Trevor walking down Haddington Rd without the umbrella up.

And they also had him wearing a full suit, which he was not.

oneilla

tara73 wrote: »

yes, and why is there only one still image available? there must be footage of what they did at the gate, when they arrived, did they talk to MIB, how they left. It's just: they were work colleagues-alright, no more questions from anybody. why not??
who released the footage anyway? the guards? media? unknown source? I have the feeling there's just one story shown to the public, this MIB, first at the pillar, than at the gate. If they are so sure the work colleagues have nothing to do with it, why showing just one eerie still pic with three people standing outside of the gate instead of just withholding that pic. It started all kind of unnecessary?) speculation (and still does for me).

The still of the colleagues appeared on kildarenow.com in 2017 and kicked off a lot of confusion.

smelly sock

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

I don’t wish to sound disrespectful but td’s father has said in the last 24hrs that any altercation with a gang is nonsense. They also don’t believe suicide either, so I wonder what they must think ?

Exactly.

Fiftyfilthy

sugarman wrote: »

Any links or quotes to that?

https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/home/499955/trevor-deely-s-dad-says-criminal-gang-murder-speculation-is-nonsense.html

tara73

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Because the police ask the questions and determined 19 years ago the others should be eliminated from enquiries. It’s not the place of posters with no access to the full information to set aside police conclusions. These people are irrelevant to the TD disappearance.

I question whatever I want to question here. Are you the one to dictate here what people question? Don't think so, if at all it will be a mod!

And by the way, it's not called the 'police' in Ireland for a reason, it's called the guards.

chicorytip

Coconut12 wrote: »

Street workers hadn’t ceased at that time in that area ! Google it

In the wake of the Geoghan Quinn 1994 legislation there was a major crackdown by Gardai forcing most girls off the streets. It certainly was a lot more difficult to find sex for sale on the street in it's aftermath. Anybody living in or who was familiar with the Upper Mount St.,Herbert St, Wilton Place, Warrington Place, Upper Pembroke St and Fitzwilliam Square areas during the mid to late nineteen eighties would affirm this, I am sure.

Fiftyfilthy

chicorytip wrote: »

In the wake of the Geoghan Quinn 1994 legislation there was a major crackdown by Gardai forcing most girls off the streets. It certainly was a lot more difficult to find sex for sale on the street in it's aftermath. Anybody living in or who was familiar with the Upper Mount St.,Herbert St, Wilton Place, Warrington Place, Upper Pembroke St and Fitzwilliam Square areas during the mid to late nineteen eighties would affirm this, I am sure.

Disagree strongly. Plenty of them around up until a couple of years ago

I’d say around 20 most nights

Still some around to this day

MilitaryRoad

If we were to take TD completely out of the equation here for a minute and look at the behaviour of the characters floating around outside the bank at unsociable hours, and say TD never went missing. If we just look at the body language of the individuals in the CCTV, because that is the only evidence that can really be taken from that footage, they appear to be waiting for someone to come out of the bank. This is not how even stupid crims do surveillance on a bank or on any other property, standing at the gate looking straight in.

smelly sock

The more you would think about it the lads going back to the office full of gargle is strange. Not getting in and heading off again and remebering nothing about MIB. People here can argue that it was run of the mill stuff but have you ever gone back to your office at 3 4 or 5 AM full of beer?? Hiwmany here have done it.

Regardless of that we cant even be sure about the time line. Time stamps on CCTV could be wrong or inaccurate.

Its a case full of possible explanations and mystery.

AGS seem to believe ot was a chance run in with a criminal gang operating in the area.

odyssey06

smelly sock wrote: »

The more you would think about it the lads going back to the office full of gargle is strange. Not getting in and heading off again and remebering nothing about MIB. People here can argue that it was run of the mill stuff but have you ever gone back to your office at 3 4 or 5 AM full of beer?? Hiwmany here have done it.

I would personally find it strange, but it was a 24 hour office located close to Dublin nightlife - seems to have been a place people would drop into to pick up stuff after being in pub.
It didn't seem too remarkable (to other colleagues) that Trevor would drop in, get an umbrella, have a coffee etc before setting off home again.

In the case of the colleagues waiting outside at the gate, I think it was in the IT article they said they were waiting for another colleague who was picking up an overnight bag and was gonna crash on the colleagues couch - cos no taxis.

tara73

smelly sock wrote: »

The more you would think about it the lads going back to the office full of gargle is strange. Not getting in and heading off again and remebering nothing about MIB. People here can argue that it was run of the mill stuff but have you ever gone back to your office at 3 4 or 5 AM full of beer?? Hiwmany here have done it.

that's what I'm saying! It's weird. And why go there if you know you can't get in anyway. No remembrance of the MIB even when getting aware your colleague is gone missing and possibly something bad happened to him just minutes after you were standing there with that man...completely weird!

eviltwin

smelly sock wrote: »

The more you would think about it the lads going back to the office full of gargle is strange. Not getting in and heading off again and remebering nothing about MIB. People here can argue that it was run of the mill stuff but have you ever gone back to your office at 3 4 or 5 AM full of beer?? Hiwmany here have done it.

Regardless of that we cant even be sure about the time line. Time stamps on CCTV could be wrong or inaccurate.

Its a case full of possible explanations and mystery.

AGS seem to believe ot was a chance run in with a criminal gang operating in the area.

I have. I work in a 24hr service, there are always people there. I've often gone in after a night out for a cuppa and some food.

Executioner511

smelly sock wrote: »

The more you would think about it the lads going back to the office full of gargle is strange. Not getting in and heading off again and remebering nothing about MIB. People here can argue that it was run of the mill stuff but have you ever gone back to your office at 3 4 or 5 AM full of beer?? Hiwmany here have done it.

Regardless of that we cant even be sure about the time line. Time stamps on CCTV could be wrong or inaccurate.

Its a case full of possible explanations and mystery.

AGS seem to believe ot was a chance run in with a criminal gang operating in the area.

A chance run in with a crime gang???I doubt that what reason would they attack him and then dispose of his body we have already seen the so called strong credible evidence that he was buried in Lucan lead to nothing,probably some lowlife spinning yarns to get leniency.

smelly sock

Myself i would consider extremely unprofessional to go to my place of work intoxicated.

Coconut12

I’m with the theory he had a bad encounter with a local criminal gang operating in the area at the time.

Day Lewin

smelly sock wrote: »

The more you would think about it the lads going back to the office full of gargle is strange. Not getting in and heading off again and remebering nothing about MIB. People here can argue that it was run of the mill stuff but have you ever gone back to your office at 3 4 or 5 AM full of beer?? Hiwmany here have done it.

Regardless of that we cant even be sure about the time line. Time stamps on CCTV could be wrong or inaccurate.

Its a case full of possible explanations and mystery.

AGS seem to believe ot was a chance run in with a criminal gang operating in the area.

I recall hearing at the time that some of the staff who were working that day, changed into their party gear and left their day clothes at the office. Called by there to pick their stuff up on the way home.

Regarding the mobile phone tracing - this was the year 2000.

Mobile phones were by NO means so common as they are now: and a lot of them were prepay - you'd buy the little docket at a shop and key in the code for twenty quids worth - ah, memory!

At 4 a.m. in a non-residential district, there really would not have been that many calls happening.

Looking at the CCTV - the "girl" that passed the lamp post - could this have been the same person seen at the ATM earlier, when Trevor got some cash out? Tall and skinny, maybe with a woolly cap on but not much of an overcoat?

smelly sock

Executioner511 wrote: »

A chance run in with a crime gang???I doubt that what reason would they attack him and then dispose of his body we have already seen the so called strong credible evidence that he was buried in Lucan lead to nothing,probably some lowlife spinning yarns to get leniency.

Chapelizod.

Thats what the aritcles say. A chance run in.

To me getting rid of the body was to avoid unwanted attention in the area due to drug dealing, prostitution and whatever else. That part of Dublin to this day has a seedy under current.

odyssey06

smelly sock wrote: »

Myself i would consider extremely unprofessional to go to my place of work intoxicated.

Attitudes were a bit more relaxed back then plus it was the company party.
Tipsy\merry ok... absolutely stocious no.

smelly sock

odyssey06 wrote: »

Attitudes were a bit more relaxed back then plus it was the company party.
Tipsy\merry ok... absolutely stocious no.

Ah i dont know. Again how many posters here hand on heart would have done or would do the same. Obviously nothing to do with TDs vanishing but strange all the same. Thats the thing about this case. All of the little snippets we know are so strange and conflicting. Maybe all missing persons cases are like that.

odyssey06

smelly sock wrote: »

Ah i dont know. Again how many posters here hand on heart would have done or would do the same. Obviously nothing to do with TDs vanishing but strange all the same. Thats the thing about this case. All of the little snippets we know are so strange and conflicting. Maybe all missing persons cases are like that.

I worked in similar office in early 00s... There was a christmas lunch tradition, which included wine in the canteen, then back to your desk for couple of hours til 4 o'clock and then to the pub. People popping in and out of the office that evening would not be considered remarkable at all.
Of course, by late 00s that had all ended thanks to new multinational owners and one incident of someone coming back to the office too boozed up

eviltwin

smelly sock wrote: »

Myself i would consider extremely unprofessional to go to my place of work intoxicated.

Was he intoxicated?

smelly sock

eviltwin wrote: »

Was he intoxicated?

Id imagine so. They started drinking at 6. He went back to the office at 3-3.30.

I believe he was drinking that night.

Dwarf.Shortage

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

Disagree strongly. Plenty of them around up until a couple of years ago

I’d say around 20 most nights

Still some around to this day

FWIW I'd have walked that route 2-3 times a month for a year while living on Haddington Road in 2017 and I was propositioned once on Wilton Terrace half way between where it meets Leeson and Baggot.

Said no but had a bit of a laugh with your one and she wasn't strung out or anything but rough head on her and fairly old to be on the game.

So they're still about but are certainly a rarity.

Weird that it was so rough years ago, very affluent area nowadays.

Muahahaha

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I also find it strange that the two work colleagues were literally standing beside MIB at the gate but as far as I know they’ve never given an account of the night and their memories of MIB - was anything said etc.

The Gardai identified them, interviewed them and ruled them out. What we dont know is what kind of conversation they had with MIB as the Gardai have never released this information. It was likely completely innocuous or else they could have been very drunk and dont remember anything about what he said to them.

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

It's seems cold case detectives on YouTube did an episode on Trevor only a couple of months ago. They seem to put a lot of credence into the bank target theory.

I watched that Cold Case thing on Youtube and its basically a rehashing of information already in the public domain from the Irish Times series and then the narrator going on to speculate with some far fetched theory. He makes Trevor out to be some sort of computer and financial genius and then goes down the rabbit hole of an Alaska based criminal gang using Trevor in some sort of bank fraud. Its all complete bollox, the Gardai and the family went to Alaska and they've ruled out any connection there.

BDI

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

FWIW I'd have walked that route 2-3 times a month for a year while living on Haddington Road in 2017 and I was propositioned once on Wilton Terrace half way between where it meets Leeson and Baggot.

Said no but had a bit of a laugh with your one and she wasn't strung out or anything but rough head on her and fairly old to be on the game.

So they're still about but are certainly a rarity.

Weird that it was so rough years ago, very affluent area nowadays.

Wilton terrace is ground zero for prostitution. There to the bridge then back to the garage on the other side supposedly is where they walk up and down.

Bad weather no punters desperate times snap judgements.

smelly sock

sugarman wrote: »

You've had several people already say they do or have done it at some stage! Yet you and other posters still insist its strange behavior because you dont!

I do it all the time working in an office thats open 24/7... whether I've been out drinking or just doing a bit of shopping and don't want to carry stuff around i'll drop into the office to drop off/pick up stuff all the time.

I usually have bags of shopping / rucksacks, changes of clothes, jumpers and jackets, my laptop, umbrella etc.. at my desk in work and I might need or want to pop in to grab something at any time.

If I was drinking in a pub 200m away from my office and it was pissing out / no taxi's id certainly pop in for an umbrella and hot drink.

Must be some size of a desk

Beechwoodspark

Day Lewin wrote: »

I recall hearing at the time that some of the staff who were working that day, changed into their party gear and left their day clothes at the office. Called by there to pick their stuff up on the way home.

Regarding the mobile phone tracing - this was the year 2000.

Mobile phones were by NO means so common as they are now: and a lot of them were prepay - you'd buy the little docket at a shop and key in the code for twenty quids worth - ah, memory!

At 4 a.m. in a non-residential district, there really would not have been that many calls happening.

Looking at the CCTV - the "girl" that passed the lamp post - could this have been the same person seen at the ATM earlier, when Trevor got some cash out? Tall and skinny, maybe with a woolly cap on but not much of an overcoat?

Where did you read a girl was seen at the atm? Don’t recall that detail

Fiftyfilthy

BDI wrote: »

Wilton terrace is ground zero for prostitution. There to the bridge then back to the garage on the other side supposedly is where they walk up and down.

Bad weather no punters desperate times snap judgements.

Exactly, if you are out at that time in the rain it’s because you need your 100euro to get heroin to last you the next day

With no punters about and your dying sick from withdrawals and your pimp is as well

Who knows what can happen

noodler

I have to say that I've gone back to the office before after an Xmas party as well to get bags.

One thing I would say, despite drinking all day, he did have a rather soboring walk in the rain to the office, and a half hour of caffeine and a chat.

That wouldn't have gotten me sobor or anything but would certainly have helped offset some of my drunkenness.

(He does veer a bit in the later CCTV but I've often done that with an umbrella up when there is heavy wind against it).

Fiftyfilthy

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Where did you read a girl was seen at the atm? Don’t recall that detail

Yes, I’d like to see that too

Executioner511

Were the Gardai on strike that night aswell surely there should be a big police presence in an area bustling with workers, party goers and drug dealers,lowlifes and prostitutes ,it's basically in the city centre and should have a large Garda presence regardless especially in the run up to Christmas but I'm sure they were too busy getting their freebies in some late night lock in.

Happy4all

Coconut12 wrote: »

Sorry I’ve no idea as I’m not a cop ! What a bizarre question

It’s all on google if you want to check it out and on the Irish Times

Gardai yesterday appealed for help from possible witnesses to the abduction of a young woman from the Baggot Street area of Dublin…

JIM CUSACK
Wed, Sep 27, 2000, 01:00

Strange post then.

I can only recall one. So can you name two or more of these murders you state as fact?

tara73

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Where did you read a girl was seen at the atm? Don’t recall that detail

that's another weird thing too, the 'scantily clad woman' seems to have disappeared from the footage/videos. she was visible and surely a big subject in the thread 2 years ago. and I havn't seen the couple..

maybe someone just linked a shortened version of the footage. but why were they cut out? questions over questions, think I better go to bed now..:).

Fiftyfilthy

Executioner511 wrote: »

Were the Gardai on strike that night aswell surely there should be a big police presence in an area bustling with workers, party goers and drug dealers,lowlifes and prostitutes ,it's basically in the city centre and should have a large Garda presence regardless especially in the run up to Christmas but I'm sure they were too busy getting their freebies in some late night lock in.

Usually there are police there all the time , patrolling in marked and unmarked cars


Could be at 4am was switch over in shifts or not patrols not as frequent due to weather and time

Alliance123

Omackeral wrote: »

Lots of "maybes" and "perhaps" there for someone backing a poster calling the unidentified person 100% guilty.

How many times will TD have walked that route after the pub and just happened to fall in the water that night? Suicide can be ruled out looking at his actions re getting the umbrella to stay dry calling his pal to say see u tomorrow. Ppl can complicate things, look at the facts what we do know and find the answers. Guards are the experts and obviously agree hence the chapelizod search

Executioner511

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

Usually there are police there all the time , patrolling in marked and unmarked cars


Could be at 4am was switch over in shifts or not patrols not as frequent due to weather and time

There obviously wasn't as there was such a big problem with prostitution and drug dealers in the area or else they just couldn't be arsed doing anything about it as we see on the board walk on a daily basis, it's like they are filming The Walking dead with all the drug using zombies taking over the city .

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

i have the footage which I downloaded in 2017 and the girl is not in it though i do recall her


I also have a prime time segment from April 2017 re Trevor just over 4 mins.

Do you guys want me to upload it?


The detective says they cannot be sure the man behind TD is the same man as was at the gate

Coconut12

Happy4all wrote: »

Strange post then.

I can only recall one. So can you name two or more of these murders you state as fact?

Nothing strange about the post when I referred to murders and abductions of prostitutes in the area around the time . I have read a few articles reported in the papers online before posting this. I don’t recall anything posted as a matter of fact or if my own inside knowledge as I’m am stating what I have read because it’s relevant to the area . End of .

smelly sock

Alliance123 wrote: »

How many times will TD have walked that route after the pub and just happened to fall in the water that night? Suicide can be ruled out looking at his actions re getting the umbrella to stay dry calling his pal to say see u tomorrow. Ppl can complicate things, look at the facts what we do know and find the answers. Guards are the experts and obviously agree hence the chapelizod search

Suicide as unlikely as it may be cannot be ruled out.

I worked with a guy before who use to fill his calendar every friday for the following week religiously. Done it one friday and was found dead on Saturday morning. Hung himself. Suicide victims can often do logical things and not seem out of the ordinary in their behaviour.

tommythecat

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

FWIW I'd have walked that route 2-3 times a month for a year while living on Haddington Road in 2017 and I was propositioned once on Wilton Terrace half way between where it meets Leeson and Baggot.

Said no but had a bit of a laugh with your one and she wasn't strung out or anything but rough head on her and fairly old to be on the game.

So they're still about but are certainly a rarity.

Weird that it was so rough years ago, very affluent area nowadays.

I’ve worked around the area since 2007. Wilton terrace all the way down to pepper canister church was always full of prostitutes. Since the bike path on the canal went in obviously it dropped significantly but even the other night I had to work late and I spotted a couple on the way home. Defo still a market there.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

smelly sock wrote: »

Suicide as unlikely as it may be cannot be ruled out.

I worked with a guy before who use to fill his calendar every friday for the following week religiously. Done it one friday and was found dead on Saturday morning. Hung himself. Suicide victims can often do logical things and not seem out of the ordinary in their behaviour.

That is true. suicide can be very spur of the moment. If you felt OK ten mins ago it would not rule it out. There was research that said if you interuppted the urge it may stop it

Fiftyfilthy

Executioner511 wrote: »

There obviously wasn't as there was such a big problem with prostitution and drug dealers in the area or else they just couldn't be arsed doing anything about it as we see on the board walk on a daily basis, it's like they are filming The Walking dead with all the drug using zombies taking over the city .

I know that there was.

The Garda wouldn’t arrest working girls, usually warn them 2x before they would lift them for soliciting

Some would just leave them be and target the punters

There was also the rhuma van that world patrol the area giving them cups of tea and a chat as well as condos

There was always a heavy enough Garda presence in general

smelly sock

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

I know that there was.

The Garda wouldn’t arrest working girls, usually warn them 2x before they would lift them for soliciting

Some would just leave them be and target the punters

There was also the rhuma van that world patrol the area giving them cups of tea and a chat as well as condos

There was always a heavy enough Garda presence in general

When i worked there id see the odd patrol car but nothing to suggest a massive presence.

Reading some of the articles which suggest a chance run in with a criminal gang operating in the area it certainly points towards a pimp/minder/drug dealer. Something went very wrong if that is the case. You'd wonder how many times punters are robbed or attacked. Probably something most wouldnt report.

Ohmeha

I really would have love to have seen the full normal speed CCTV footage from outside the BOI building, it always looks to me MIB is chatting on a mobile 10+ seconds before Trevor appears but then it took 10 seconds for Trevor to walk a very short distance (alcohol obviously may have explained that)

I trust Gardai have better info on all his disappearance than any of us but surely after 19 years every minor detail on his disappearance including full normal speed CCTV should be released by now

Fiftyfilthy

smelly sock wrote: »

When i worked there id see the odd patrol car but nothing to suggest a massive presence.

Reading some of the articles which suggest a chance run in with a criminal gang operating in the area it certainly points towards a pimp/minder/drug dealer. Something went very wrong if that is the case. You'd wonder how many times punters are robbed or attacked. Probably something most wouldnt report.

Would happen a lot. Usually a prostitute would take the money and walk off pretending she saw a gard etc . Non violent robbery

Pimps would catch them in the act and have knife or syringe and rob them

Were a couple of travelers , man and woman who would rob a lot this way

Garda would drive in unmarked puntos etc too, not just marked cars

Fiftyfilthy

Ohmeha wrote: »

I really would have love to have seen the full normal speed CCTV footage from outside the BOI building, it always looks to me MIB is chatting on a mobile 10+ seconds before Trevor appears but then it took 10 seconds for Trevor to walk a very short distance (alcohol obviously may have explained that)

I trust Gardai have better info on all his disappearance than any of us but surely after 19 years every minor detail on his disappearance including full normal speed CCTV should be released by now

100% agree. By holding back it is really hindering any potential breakthrough

Makes you wonder, what if any other facts are not being disclosed

smelly sock

Ohmeha wrote: »

I really would have love to have seen the full normal speed CCTV footage from outside the BOI building, it always looks to me MIB is chatting on a mobile 10+ seconds before Trevor appears but then it took 10 seconds for Trevor to walk a very short distance (alcohol obviously may have explained that)

I trust Gardai have better info on all his disappearance than any of us but surely after 19 years every minor detail on his disappearance including full normal speed CCTV should be released by now

Id agree. Certainly more info on the background of the paticular witnesses who have come forward. Former criminals? Drug dealers in the area? Prostitutes?

To my mind the more granular and detailed info given the better chance of jogging memories at this stage. Especially the memories of others in the area at the time who may have had interactions with people.

20Wheel

No need to worry about the Baggott St area police if your crime is a bit further out, in the more residential streets.

Of course youd be waiting a while for a good target to head down the likes of Haddington/surrounds. Even then they might have no good money on them.

But if you knew someone who took that route regularly, from your local knowledge of seeing them daily, and suspected they might have some cash on them. Since they worked for a bank.

(bank is bank, bank simply means money to the simple. assets shmassets. If you work in a bank you're automatically rich)

And saw them out with a few pints in them. On the night of a taxi strike.
Respectable young country lad. Must be rich cause bank worker.

Then armed with this information you can make a very simple effective plan.

He's going to come out of the pub and head towards wilton terrace, as he normally does, as his route home dictates he must.
You wait at the pillar. (call me when you're in place) I'll call you when he's heading your way. Check it's him. Follow behind.

Ring ring. I'm at the pillar. 30 mins later Ring ring here he comes.

(Oh, he's stopped to make a call, I have to keep walking so he doesn't see I'm stalking him, doesn't matter I know he intends to go in to this particular building cause I know he works there, here he is.. small talk, shyte he's gone in the building, I wonder will he come back out, stare after him through the gate like an amateur criminal, just wait till he comes back out.)

Follow him at a safe distance down wilton terrace. Get caught on Milanos/atm CCTV.

One in front since we know his destination, one behind. Mug him en route somewhere quiet.
Then jump in the car. And off away. That's the plan.

Oops something goes wrong. I'm known to local police, records, dna, cameras, I was careless earlier cause this was just supposed to be something small.

I'm done if this gets found out. Get him in the car.