Trevor Deely case - new witness

20Wheel

smelly sock wrote: »

FFS. Here we go now. The behind man. Like a dog outside a supermarket.

This thread is going to start progressing like the last one with this ****e.

Whatever I say you're just going to say the opposite.

Mods can cut the charades and just wrap it up for all I care.

Good while it lasted. Nothing new coming to light. Forward my cheque.

You're welcome.

noodler

smelly sock wrote: »

FFS. Here we go now. The behind man. Like a dog outside a supermarket.

This thread is going to start progressing like the last one with this ****e.

I just listened to the sister's podcast.

It's pretty clear she is talking about boards (or Reddit).

One falsehood that keeps coming up on here that she corrected: he didn't come home from Alaska a couple of days prior to going missing - it was weeks.

smelly sock

noodler wrote: »

But he's facing the camera in the shots with the pree people at the gate?

The guy to me has no fear of being identified.

noodler

20Wheel wrote: »

Whatever I say you're just going to say the opposite.

Mods can cut the charades and just wrap it up for all I care.

Good while it lasted. Nothing new coming to light. Forward my cheque.

You're welcome.

Could you please stop posters are being paid to get the thread shutdown please?

Your nonsense theories is doing that.

smelly sock

noodler wrote: »

I just listened to the sister's podcast.

It's pretty clear she is talking about boards (or Reddit).

One falsehood that keeps coming up on here that she corrected: he didn't come home from Alaska a couple of days prior to going missing - it was weeks.

I dont think anyone with any sense believes this has anything to do with Alaska.

Peter Flynt

smelly sock wrote: »

Pimp keeping an eye on things is about the only thing that adds up.

A fair point but there is a phone call to the "pimp" which is answered/ended by him moments before TD arrived.
Pimps don't hang around street corners either.
Prostitutes do.
The pimps just take the money.

smelly sock

It'd be interesting to know of this was the only cctv they saved from BOIAM. CCTV from the nights precedding the event might shed more light on people hanging around here amd if it was normal.

20Wheel

smelly sock wrote: »

The guy to me has no fear of being identified.

Cause he thought he was engaged in a petty crime.

smelly sock

Peter Flynt wrote: »

A fair point but there is a phone call to the "pimp" which is answered/ended by him moments before TD arrived.
Pimps don't hang around street corners either.
Prostitutes do.
The pimps just take the money.

Yeh. Ive read some articles on this which suggest it wasnt uncommon to see men alone standing in door ways keeping an eye on business in this area.. It was an indo article. Will post a link.

smelly sock

20Wheel wrote: »

Cause he thought he was engaged in a petty crime.

The behind man? Looking at him like a dog in a supermarket?

20Wheel

smelly sock wrote: »

The behind man? Looking at him like a dog in a supermarket?

Yes. Like a dog that has seen its owner go in the building while he has to sit outside and gawk through the door/gate.

Waiting for him to come back out.

So he can follow him. And get what he wants.

Even dogs can deduce the concept of another having something that they want. And so to follow in the hopes of getting the thing.

Which amazingly (according to the quoted UK based experts in the Times) is exactly what MIB did.

Fr Tod Umptious

20Wheel wrote: »

No. He got caught by the bollox by the work colleagues. Wasn't expecting them at all. Just like he got caught by the bollox when TD stopped to call on his phone.
And the plonker had to keep walking, so knowing that TD was an employee of the Bank he walked down the lane.
Where he proceeded to get caught on CCTV again.

He could have put 2+2 together and kept walking down wilton. Where TD would follow in a bit. But he wasn't supposed to lose track of TD, as the behind man.

So instead he ended up with his mug on camera, gawking after his target like a dog outside a supermarket.

Or maybe he was just gawking through that gate for inspiration.

But why was this man in black no supposed to lose sight of Trevor, the tall, strong, young, junior IT engineer, who had been drinking but was not "legless" ?

What made Trevor such a target for this guy and his associates ?

I'm in fear of using by 10,000 post answering this rubbish

Peter Flynt

There's always a tendency to overestimate the role of stuff like CCTV/technology and the like in this terrible case.

CCTV had progressed very little from the 1980s - basically VHS videos were still being used a thousand times over. It was actually a credit to the Deely family and friends that they managed to get the CCTV from Haddington Road as they literally had hours before that was "taped over". They contacted every business they could with cameras and really only got footage from the banks at WT and HR. So a complacent MIB, whilst momentarily hiding, may not have been bothered by CCTV that much. In the end he was picked up on CCTV and the footage was so poor he cannot be identified.

Also on mobile phones - They weren't as common as people think on the night of 8 December 2000. These days everyone over the age of 12 has a mobile phone in Ireland. In 2000 they were on stream but not everyone had a phone. A few traditionalists, like myself, were only getting mobile phones for the first time around this era and I certainly don't remember text messaging coming with them. Perhaps that's why Trevor was on his phone and also MIB at the same time as Trevor arrived on Wilton Terrace. Texting seem to come commonplace around 2002 (I await correction though if wrong).

Fr Tod Umptious

Peter Flynt wrote: »

It is the case that before Trevor arrived at Wilton Terrace that the MIB at Wilton Terrace proceeded to take a phone call, then engage Trevor in conversation after moving to talk to him. As he did so he seemed to be aware of BoI cameras as he kept his back to the cameras. All of this after waiting for 30+ minutes in the rain on a terrible night re the weather.

My understanding is that AGS believe this is the same person who followed him on HR.

"Gardaaid they believed this was the same man from earlier"
https://www.thejournal.ie/trevor-deely-timeline-3544950-Aug2017/

I now what you linkedis from the Gardai but as I said another Garda said on RTE that they were not sure.
I can't find a link to it but it was discussed on the old thread.

It is inconclusive, which is a pity because MIB at BOIAM and the guy walking doen Haddington Rd have never been identified

tdf7187

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But why was this man in black no supposed to lose sight of Trevor, the tall, strong, young, junior IT engineer, who had been drinking but was not "legless" ?

What made Trevor such a target for this guy and his associates ?

I'm in fear of using by 10,000 post answering this rubbish

So you think the cops are on the wrong track? If so take it up with them. It's not a few posters on boards.ie that ordered the 5 day search in Chapelizod.

Incidentally, I searched back on your posts and for your tendency to lecture others from a great height you committed a few basic errors. Trevor wouldn't have needed to take the route he did to buy ciggies or a Lucozade at the Spar on Bath Avenue. At that time, the Spar on Uppr Baggot St, literally a stones throw from the Mespil Rd. / Uppr Baggot St junction, was also 24 hours. I always thought the route he took was a sidetrack. He probably just preferred to walk that way home. The distance wouldn't have been all that much different to the more direct route, via Pembroke Rd.

The blunt facts are that there were at that time heroin and cocaine addicted prostitutes and pimps operating in that area of Dublin. Some of said people provably involved in other very serious crimes, both before and since Trevor's disappearance. They wouldn't have given a ****e about being caught on CCTV, it wouldn't even have occured to them. I'm talking about people that would have done anything for the next fix. I cannot say if any of them were involved in Trevor's disappearance, I simply have no idea, but I'm not as prepared as you seem to be to dismiss, in a condescending fashion, posters who have a different view to you. A view that is not coming out of thin air, incidentally.

ParkRunner

Anyone going to college back then got a free phone when you opened a student bank account. Texts and calls were very expensive though, and you couldn’t keep the same number so nowhere near the level of usage and traceability there is now. Phones didn’t have cameras either.
If it happened today he could be traced by phone, cctv, dashcam, social media. Whole different world back then.

Fr Tod Umptious

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There's always a tendency to overestimate the role of stuff like CCTV/technology and the like in this terrible case.

CCTV had progressed very little from the 1980s - basically VHS videos were still being used a thousand times over. It was actually a credit to the Deely family and friends that they managed to get the CCTV from Haddington Road as they literally had hours before that was "taped over". They contacted every business they could with cameras and really only got footage from the banks at WT and HR. So a complacent MIB, whilst momentarily hiding, may not have been bothered by CCTV that much. In the end he was picked up on CCTV and the footage was so poor he cannot be identified.

Also on mobile phones - They weren't as common as people think on the night of 8 December 2000. These days everyone over the age of 12 has a mobile phone in Ireland. In 2000 they were on stream but not everyone had a phone. A few traditionalists, like myself, were only getting mobile phones for the first time around this era and I certainly don't remember text messaging coming with them. Perhaps that's why Trevor was on his phone and also MIB at the same time as Trevor arrived on Wilton Terrace. Texting seem to come commonplace around 2002 (I await correction though if wrong).

Trevor is on his phone to Peter the security guard asking to be let in
That's an established fact

Peter Flynt

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Trevor is on his phone to Peter the security guard asking to be let in
That's an established fact

That's what I stated.

Peter Flynt

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I now what you linkedis from the Gardai but as I said another Garda said on RTE that they were not sure.
I can't find a link to it but it was discussed on the old thread.

It is inconclusive, which is a pity because MIB at BOIAM and the guy walking doen Haddington Rd have never been identified

I find it unlikely that the media would be reporting 17 years later that AGS are clear that they believe that both men were the same person.....only for it to be ruled out a few days later.. Perhaps you could get that link

STB.

tdf7187 wrote: »

I can work out first one and third but not second. Seems there was and possibly still is a big problem with dysfunctional crime families from that specific road or estate.

Press reporting over the last few years - allegedly interlinked (by the way, the family the press were referring to are no longer serious players in drugs).

1 , 2 , 3 , 4 and 5

20Wheel

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But why was this man in black no supposed to lose sight of Trevor, the tall, strong, young, junior IT engineer, who had been drinking but was not "legless" ?

What made Trevor such a target for this guy and his associates ?

I'm in fear of using by 10,000 post answering this rubbish

If you can't understand by now then please by all means just don't bother reading my posts.

Its really not that hard.

2 people ambush one person. Coming from both front and back.

I'll keep watching in the meantime for you to proffer something better than he jumped in the water coz reasons.

I think it will be quite a wait. Since you have contributed precisely zero to the thread thus far.
If this thread were a ship you'd be a barnacle. Going along for the journey, being slightly inconvenient and offering nothing.

Same to noodler. Just bench warming. Booing from the safety of the sidelines.

oneilla

RollieFingers wrote: »

The gates and layout are still the exact same as the time of this incident. Well the actual gate itself might be different, I'm not sure, but the layout hasn't changed. I don't actually know if it is still BOI in there, always presumed it is. Whatever company is there the building is still fully operational, they have their Xmas tree up.

There's still even CCTV cameras in the same places.

MonkieSocks

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I now what you linkedis from the Gardai but as I said another Garda said on RTE that they were not sure.
I can't find a link to it but it was discussed on the old thread.

It is inconclusive, which is a pity because MIB at BOIAM and the guy walking doen Haddington Rd have never been identified

Think it's this one "Crimecall Trevor Deely April 2017"

noodler

20Wheel wrote: »

If you can't understand by now then please by all means just don't bother reading my posts.

Its really not that hard.

2 people ambush one person. Coming from both front and back.

I'll keep watching in the meantime for you to proffer something better than he jumped in the water coz reasons.

I think it will be quite a wait. Since you have contributed precisely zero to the thread thus far.
If this thread were a ship you'd be a barnacle. Going along for the journey, being slightly inconvenient and offering nothing.

Same to noodler. Just bench warming. Booing from the safety of the sidelines.

Perhaps this is where you have the thread all wrong.

It's not here for you constantly outdo yourself with more and more outlandish theories of spotters in Bucks, cars etc.

Certainly, no one is required to offer an alternative to your creative writing efforts in order to discredit them.

But go on, say again how anyone pouring cold water on your theories must be a paid lackie...or something

tdf7187

https://extra.ie/2017/08/15/news/irish-news/i-dont-want-cash-reward-trevor-found-says-informant#foobox-1/2/trevor-deely-cctv.jpg

I think the girl in the photo on the right was not identified, or am I wrong?

20Wheel

noodler wrote: »

Perhaps this is where you have the thread all wrong.

It's not here for you constantly outdo yourself with more and more outlandish theories of spotters in Bucks, cars etc.

Certainly, no one is required to offer an alternative to your creative writing efforts in order to discredit them.

But go on, say again how anyone pouring cold water on your theories must be a paid lackie...or something

What's your theory then? Or even your contribution of any kind?

Other than changing 'car' to 'cars' and 'spotter' to 'spotters'.

noodler

20Wheel wrote: »

What's your theory then? Or even your contribution of any kind?

Are you under the impression someone needs to offer a theory to be "contributing" here?

By God, maybe you really do think this is creative writing 101.

Peter Flynt

I'm sure the crime families operating in the area at the time were, and still are, well known to the Gardaí and I've no doubt that AGS probably know exactly what happened to Trevor Deely but just have no further evidence (like a crime scene) to bring about prosecutions or any form of justice.

I do feel Trevor was being watched - definitely on the night he went missing but possibly for days or even weeks before.

If he did come to harm because of his association with working with Bank of Ireland then I can only assume it was because of some form of stupidity and/or incompetence on the part of the criminals. Did they think there were huge sums of money at Wilton Terrace? A safe that Trevor could lead them to?

It's possible that Trevor was abducted by a passing car in accomplice with MIB at WT/HR but once realising Trevor could not deliver what they wanted from him then they just panicked and did something completely unnecessary whilst out of their heads on coke/alcohol.

20Wheel

noodler wrote: »

Are you under the impression someone needs to offer a theory to be "contributing" here?

By God, maybe you really do think this is creative writing 101.

There's no rule, but I think most people know that sitting on the sidelines acting like you could do any better, and then not having the sack to make any effort is like being the fat bloke at the bar shouting at the football screen that he could score from there.

Is that you?

Come on give it a shot big man.

Noodlers contribution in 3... 2.... 1....

Fr Tod Umptious

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Think it's this one "Crimecall Trevor Deely April 2017"

Thank you, that's exactly it

2min 40sec in.

Keelan Shanley - "Are you definite that was the same male seen outside the bank talking to Trevor"

AGS - "No Keelan, we cannot definitely say that this is the same male but he would have the same appearance as the male in the earlier footage"

smelly sock

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I'm sure the crime families operating in the area at the time were, and still are, well known to the Gardaí and I've no doubt that AGS probably know exactly what happened to Trevor Deely but just have no further evidence (like a crime scene) to bring about prosecutions or any form of justice.

I do feel Trevor was being watched - definitely on the night he went missing but possibly for days or even weeks before.

If he did come to harm because of his association with working with Bank of Ireland then I can only assume it was because of some form of stupidity and/or incompetence on the part of the criminals. Did they think there were huge sums of money at Wilton Terrace? A safe that Trevor could lead them to?

It's possible that Trevor was abducted by a passing car in accomplice with MIB at WT/HR but once realising Trevor could not deliver what they wanted from him then they just panicked and did something completely unnecessary whilst out of their heads on coke/alcohol.

Its also possible Trevor had interactions with these criminals before and they were sick of him. A lot of things are possible. I'm not sure that this was premedtiated though. Who knows. I think we'd have to accept AGS when they say a chance altercation with a well known criminal gang. But how did it come about on haddington rd ffs.

20Wheel

Gardaí believe that the male acting suspiciously outside of Trevor’s place of work is the same male that is seen passing the Bank of Ireland ATM on Haddington Road at 4.14

https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime-Prevention/Crimecall-on-RTE/Crimecall-Episodes/2017/April-24/Missing-Person-Trevor-Deely.html

TheW1zard

Any updates on the new witness?

Fr Tod Umptious

20Wheel wrote: »

If you can't understand by now then please by all means just don't bother reading my posts.

Its really not that hard.

2 people ambush one person. Coming from both front and back.

I'll keep watching in the meantime for you to proffer something better than he jumped in the water coz reasons.

I think it will be quite a wait. Since you have contributed precisely zero to the thread thus far.
If this thread were a ship you'd be a barnacle. Going along for the journey, being slightly inconvenient and offering nothing.

Same to noodler. Just bench warming. Booing from the safety of the sidelines.

But why Trevor ?

Why the 22 year old big strong guy ?

Why wait 30+ mins for him in the rain with plenty of other targets ?

And why only Dec 8th 2000 ?

Why not every weekend night ?

If there was a spate of muggings by two people in the area it would be common knowledge and there would be warnings about it ?

Fr Tod Umptious

20Wheel wrote: »

Gardaelieve that the male acting suspiciously outside of Trevor’s place of work is the same male that is seen passing the Bank of Ireland ATM on Haddington Road at 4.14

https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime-Prevention/Crimecall-on-RTE/Crimecall-Episodes/2017/April-24/Missing-Person-Trevor-Deely.html

Yes their information on whether they believe the guys are the same person are totally ambiguous

smelly sock

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Thank you, that's exactly it

2min 40sec in.

Keelan Shanley - "Are you definite that was the same male seen outside the bank talking to Trevor"

AGS - "No Keelan, we cannot definitely say that this is the same male but he would have the same appearance as the male in the earlier footage"

Interesting the amount of traffic and pedestrians in the footage. Across the road when Trevor is entering the bank you can clearly see pedestrians. You can also see cars. Same at the ATM. A car drives by. It was busy enough.

I know its neen clarified before but how did MIB get to the gate before Trevor?

STB.

smelly sock wrote: »

But how did it come about on haddington rd ffs.

"An informant who provided gardai with information that sparked a massive search for missing Trevor Deely has pointed the blame at a crime gang linked to the murder of a prostitute.

It is understood the notorious gang were involved in prostitution and heroin dealing at the time of Mr Deely's disappearance in December 2000.

A senior member of this gang is considered to be a dangerous criminal who was known to work as a pimp in the area where the Kildare man went missing.

This individual is understood to have been viewed as a suspect in the unsolved murder of prostitute Sinead Kelly - from Santry - in June 1998.

"It is understood the individual did identify the killer as a criminal and drug dealer who operated around the Baggot Street Bridge area" at that time.

The suspect identified is part of a Crumlin crime family responsible for bringing a contaminated consignment of heroin into Dublin from the UK in the 1980s, which led to the deaths of a number of heroin addicts in the city.

SOURCE: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gang-linked-to-womans-knifing-murdered-and-buried-missing-trevor-36052259.html

smelly sock

20Wheel wrote: »

Gardaí believe that the male acting suspiciously outside of Trevor’s place of work is the same male that is seen passing the Bank of Ireland ATM on Haddington Road at 4.14

https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime-Prevention/Crimecall-on-RTE/Crimecall-Episodes/2017/April-24/Missing-Person-Trevor-Deely.html

AGS totally contradict themselves. Guessing is all.

Peter Flynt

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Thank you, that's exactly it

2min 40sec in.

Keelan Shanley - "Are you definite that was the same male seen outside the bank talking to Trevor"

AGS - "No Keelan, we cannot definitely say that this is the same male but he would have the same appearance as the male in the earlier footage"

As the website shows AGS believe that MIB 1 & 2 are the same person.

That Garda says he cannot definitely say but then qualifies it with a "but etc. . "

I'd be more inclined to agree with the Garda website which definitively states that they believe MIB 1/2 are the same person.

Muahahaha

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I now what you linkedis from the Gardai but as I said another Garda said on RTE that they were not sure.
I can't find a link to it but it was discussed on the old thread.

It is inconclusive, which is a pity because MIB at BOIAM and the guy walking doen Haddington Rd have never been identified

I think that comes from the CCTV experts in the UK who said something along the lines that it is more than likely that MIB is the same in both outside BOIAM CCTV and the Haddington Rd CCTV. So there isnt 100% certainty just a strong possibility.

I would imagine the only way the CCTV experts could arrive at that conclusion is to find out the distance between the cameras and the point on the ground where he is standing and then do some triangulation to find out a rough idea of his height, distance between his shoulders, etc and then do that again with the Haddington Road footage and then compare the two measurements to arrive at their more that likely conclusion. Also both figures dressing entirely in black and both following TDs movements and the chances of it being the same person in both CCTV tapes goes up and up. But they can never say it with 100% certainity, just a high probability.

smelly sock

STB. wrote: »

"An informant who provided gardai with information that sparked a massive search for missing Trevor Deely has pointed the blame at a crime gang linked to the murder of a prostitute.

It is understood the notorious gang were involved in prostitution and heroin dealing at the time of Mr Deely's disappearance in December 2000.

A senior member of this gang is considered to be a dangerous criminal who was known to work as a pimp in the area where the Kildare man went missing.

This individual is understood to have been viewed as a suspect in the unsolved murder of prostitute Sinead Kelly - from Santry - in June 1998.

"It is understood the individual did identify the killer as a criminal and drug dealer who operated around the Baggot Street Bridge area" at that time.

The suspect identified is part of a Crumlin crime family responsible for bringing a contaminated consignment of heroin into Dublin from the UK in the 1980s, which led to the deaths of a number of heroin addicts in the city.

SOURCE: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gang-linked-to-womans-knifing-murdered-and-buried-missing-trevor-36052259.html

I mean the interaction with Trevor didnt happen by chance surely. There must be a little more to it. Not premeditiated in the days leading up to it but TD must have had reason to interact with them. A mugging ending up with a murder and a body being vanished.

tdf7187

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But why Trevor ?

Why the 22 year old big strong guy ?

Why wait 30+ mins for him in the rain with plenty of other targets ?

And why only Dec 8th 2000 ?

Why not every weekend night ?

If there was a spate of muggings by two people in the area it would be common knowledge and there would be warnings about it ?

Take it up with AGS.

Peter Flynt

smelly sock wrote: »

Its also possible Trevor had interactions with these criminals before and they were sick of him.

Probably unlikely though simply because there's no evidence to back that up.

There is evidence that dodgy characters were watching BoI and taking/receiving phone calls as Trevor arrived at BoI and appearing to be following him in the final footage.

They made their way to him.
Not the other way around.

smelly sock

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But why Trevor ?

Why the 22 year old big strong guy ?

Why wait 30+ mins for him in the rain with plenty of other targets ?

And why only Dec 8th 2000 ?

Why not every weekend night ?

If there was a spate of muggings by two people in the area it would be common knowledge and there would be warnings about it ?

In certain circumstances victims might not report muggings.

smelly sock

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Probably unlikely though simply because there's no evidence to back that up.

There is evidence that dodgy characters were watching BoI and taking/receiving phone calls as Trevor arrived at BoI and appearing to be following him in the final footage.

They made their way to him.
Not the other way around.

One dodgy character though Pete.

STB.

smelly sock wrote: »

I mean the interaction with Trevor didnt happen by chance surely. There must be a little more to it. Not premeditiated in the days leading up to it but TD must have had reason to interact with them. A mugging ending up with a murder and a body being vanished.

According to someone who provided information in 2017, yes, that's exactly what happened.


These things can and do actually happen!

20Wheel

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But why Trevor ?

Why the 22 year old big strong guy ?

Why wait 30+ mins for him in the rain with plenty of other targets ?

And why only Dec 8th 2000 ?

Why not every weekend night ?

If there was a spate of muggings by two people in the area it would be common knowledge and there would be warnings about it ?

1.Cause they know him from him working in their area. Know him to be a civil, mild type. A young country lad.

2.Cause they know his route home. And that he'd had a few drinks. And that he's been to the atm.

3.their history of crimes are unknown. Although there's something to that. If there was a sudden dip in petty crimes, if someone turned into a regular saint immediately after the 8th then it could suggest heads being kept down.

4.multiple possibilities. Why do anything on a given day.

Who says it needs to be part of a spate. Endless possibilities. Maybe they lost at the bookies. Maybe they were behind on rent. You name it.

What do think happened and how does it line up with anything we know for certain, or that the gardai say.

smelly sock

STB. wrote: »

According to someone who provided information in 2017, yes, that's exactly what happened.


These things can and do actually happen!

Oh i know. And i agree. But getting rid of the body like that doesnt just happen.

STB.

smelly sock wrote: »

Oh i know. And i agree. But getting rid of the body like that doesnt just happen.

Getting rid of bodies happens all the time!


We only read about the ones that get caught or where the body turns up.

smelly sock

STB. wrote: »

Getting rid of bodies happens all the time!


We only read about the ones that get caught or where the body turns up.

No it doesnt. Maybe to drug dealers and such it does but not to a young innocent chap. That doesnt happen that much at all.