Trevor Deely case - new witness

Raconteuse

smelly sock wrote: »

I walked by a guy earlier on the phone. Don't think that call was about me.

Don't be silly.

Also, why don't people just write Trevor? TD keeps making me think they're talking about a TD.

noodler

20Wheel wrote: »

Back to reddit so.

Noodler you're a coward. Adios.

It's where you belong tbf.

Assetbacked

The few days immediately after the disappearance where there was no focus from the authorities are unfortunately the reason this case is unlikely to ever be solved. The umbrella and any other evidence were likely destroyed as part of a clean up in advance of the US president's visit. It would also have given time to deal with the body if it was a murder.

There does also appear to be a lack of information being put out by Gardaí despite the fact they are appealing for assistance. For example, the informant last year who had a guilty conscience, who was he and why should he have been treated credibly for the particular disappearance of Trevor? This was never disclosed or at least I could never find out information other than he was a criminal in the drugs and other illicit trades at the time.

KWAG2019

Posters are running into the limits of their role and getting frustrated. It might be helpful if everyone recognized that the police do what they do for their own operational reasons which are none of my business.

There is no alternative to hoping the police have useful information that goes further than what the public know, keeping the disappearance of TD active in peoples minds in early Dec and waiting for this “very significant” witness to deliver something concrete.

tdf7187

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Does anyone know how long the MIB waited at the gate? I still find it odd that the Gardaí don’t mention the length of time this guy was hanging around, just that he appears to have had a brief chat with TD.

In the region of 30 minutes. If you look at the video you will see the time change. That's part of the reason why his behaviour is viewed as odd. Strange place to wait to bum a ciggie off someone. If he was begging, similarly, plenty of areas with better street traffic than there. Grafton Street for example. Sheltering from the rain is a non-sinister possibility I guess. He could have asked just asked Trevor to borrow an umbrella, Trevor might have brushed him off not knowing who he was. But if he is also MIB2, that wouldn't look good.

EmmetSpiceland

tdf7187 wrote: »

In the region of 30 minutes. If you look at the video you will see the time change. That's part of the reason why his behaviour is viewed as odd. Strange place to wait to bum a ciggie off someone. If he was begging, similarly, plenty of areas with better street traffic than there. Grafton Street for example. Sheltering from the rain is a non-sinister possibility I guess. He could have asked just asked Trevor to borrow an umbrella, Trevor might have brushed him off not knowing who he was. But if he is also MIB2, that wouldn't look good.

He’s 30 minutes waiting before Trevor arrives but how long is he waiting at the gate around the corner after Trevor goes inside?

Fr Tod Umptious

sugarman wrote: »

It unknown.

We just know he was still there 3 minutes later when Trevors Colleagues turned up due to the footage on the TV3 documentary. That was at 3:37:39AM.

The next clip we have is Trevor existing at 4:02:00AM. So some time in those 25mins.

And he walks across the street out of view so there is no indication of which way he went.

tdf7187

So shelters from the rain for 40 minutes but then decides - while it's still lashing as is apparent from the footage of Trevor alongside Milanos- sure I'll lead off now, I've had me shelter for the night.

Fr Tod Umptious

sugarman wrote: »

Where are you seeing that? The last imagines of him is standing at the gate next to Trevor's Colleague.

Oh it's been covered somewhere before, I can't remember but the question is often asked "which direction did the man at BOIAM go ?" And the answer apparently is "across the street and out of sight".

If we knew which direction he left BOIAM then it would be part of the story at this stage.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

Am I right the ATM he was last seen at is where Milanos is now , just after Haddington Road intersection with Northumberland Road

The Nal

Lina Limited Workaholic wrote: »

Am I right the ATM he was last seen at is where Milanos is now , just after Haddington Road intersection with Northumberland Road

It was on the Baggot St side of the building

The Nal

sugarman wrote: »

No, KellyKelly is right. It was on the Haddington Road side where the ATM was.

Here an old image from before it change over to Milanos. The CCTV Camera he was last recorded on is seen to the right ..and you can just about see the boarded up ATM.

Ah ok, did they move it after that? I defo remember taking money from an ATM on the Baggot St side of the building before.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

The Nal wrote: »

Ah ok, did they move it after that? I defo remember taking money from an ATM on the Baggot St side of the building before.

By Baggot St side you mean where the woman in striped shirt is walking?

The Nal

Lina Limited Workaholic wrote: »

By Baggot St side you mean where the woman in striped shirt is walking?

Yeah, always thought there was a machine there at some stage.

Edit: scrap that, I'm an idiot. Im thinking of the Ulster Bank in Ballsbridge.

In my defence I've never taken money from either sober.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

sugarman wrote: »

Heres an even better image with people at the ATM

1900s? from look of the car

Raconteuse

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

He’s 30 minutes waiting before Trevor arrives but how long is he waiting at the gate around the corner after Trevor goes inside?

Think he overheard Trevor saying on his phone to security that he was coming in the side gate so the man got there first.

tuxy

tdf7187 wrote: »

So shelters from the rain for 40 minutes but then decides - while it's still lashing as is apparent from the footage of Trevor alongside Milanos- sure I'll lead off now, I've had me shelter for the night.

I've done this, taken shelter in the hope that rain dies down. If it doesn't it will get to the point where I'm really knackered and just want my own bed so will head out into it again.

Fr Tod Umptious

tuxy wrote: »

I've done this, taken shelter in the hope that rain dies down. If it doesn't it will get to the point where I'm really knackered and just want my own bed so will head out into it again.

MIB is huddled waiting for the rain to ease up.

Trevor comes along, MIB hears him on phone talking to security, MIB thinks Trevor is getting his car. (and there is parking in there)

MIB asks Trevor if he is driving in a certain direction.

Trevor says no, MIB looks dejected.

Asks the colleagues a few minutes later the same, same answer.

MIB heads off.

Completely and utterly plausible and natural behavior.

I would have done it myself.

Trevor does not mention it to the guy in the office as it's completely inconsequential.
Colleagues may have recalled it but asking about a lift on the night of a taxi strike is such an obvious thing to do that the Gardai took little notice of it, i.e it was not the kind of breakthrough they were hoping for, it was just a guy looking for a lift.

Why he has not come forward ?

Never put two and two together at the time of the original appeal.
God knows where he is now.

BDI

Lads there so much creative writing going on here but it’s really bad stuff. We don’t know how the man in black feels, we don’t get a sense of the security guard, who is he, what motivates him,

Is the man in black married, is the security guard just one day from retirement


Basically what I’m trying to say is what is the story with people making up bad fan fiction here. It like some sort titalation going on. It’s a local murder case not a hasbro board game.

Should really be ashamed of yourselves, some of you.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

MIB is huddled waiting for the rain to ease up.

Trevor comes along, MIB hears him on phone talking to security, MIB thinks Trevor is getting his car. (and there is parking in there)

MIB asks Trevor if he is driving in a certain direction.

Trevor says no, MIB looks dejected.

Asks the colleagues a few minutes later the same, same answer.

MIB heads off.

Completely and utterly plausible and natural behavior.

I would have done it myself.

Trevor does not mention it to the guy in the office as it's completely inconsequential.
Colleagues may have recalled it but asking about a lift on the night of a taxi strike is such an obvious thing to do that the Gardai took little notice of it, i.e it was not the kind of breakthrough they were hoping for, it was just a guy looking for a lift.

Why he has not come forward ?

Never put two and two together at the time of the original appeal.
God knows where he is now.

That is a good possibility. It was something a bit personal he wanted, he would not look down like that if he was selling a lady and was refused as it is just business


Maybe he was up to something petty crime wise but nothing to do with Trevor. Maybe his wife kicked him out and he wanted to get home to his parents

Fr Tod Umptious

BDI wrote: »

Lads there so much creative writing going on here but it’s really bad stuff. We don’t know how the man in black feels, we don’t get a sense of the security guard, who is he, what motivates him,

Is the man in black married, is the security guard just one day from retirement


Basically what I’m trying to say is what is the story with people making up bad fan fiction here. It like some sort titalation going on. It’s a local murder case not a hasbro board game.

Should really be ashamed of yourselves, some of you.

Except it's not a murder case

andekwarhola

People here are saying they'd ask a drunk stranger on the street for a lift at 4am? Wtf.:D

tdf7187

andekwarhola wrote: »

People here are saying they'd ask a drunk stranger on the street for a lift at 4am? Wtf.:D

Taxi strike. Plus, Leeson Street back then was Circus Maximus.

andekwarhola

tdf7187 wrote: »

Taxi strike.

So?

Fr Tod Umptious

andekwarhola wrote: »

People here are saying they'd ask a drunk stranger on the street for a lift at 4am? Wtf.:D

So firstly Trevor does not seem drunk, even though he has been drinking. There is plenty of video evidence to show that he is fairly steay on his feet at the time.

Secondly the MIB may be drunk or may have been drinking and thus does not notice Trevor's state as much as a fully sober person would.

And thirdly as already pointed out, taxi strike.

andekwarhola

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So firstly Trevor does not seem drunk, even though he has been drinking. There is plenty of video evidence to show that he is fairly steay on his feet at the time.

Secondly the MIB may be drunk or may have been drinking and thus does not notice Trevor's state as much as a fully sober person would.

And thirdly as already pointed out, taxi strike.

I'm sure it's not impossible that some nutters would ask such a thing of a complete stranger, was just surprised to hear anybody admitting it.

Fr Tod Umptious

andekwarhola wrote: »

I'm sure it's not impossible that some nutters would ask such a thing of a complete stranger, was just surprised to hear anybody admitting it.

I'd ask that question if I was stuck out in the rain on that night in the year 2000, it's not that uncommon or at least was not that uncommon, and I'm not a nutter.

andekwarhola

sugarman wrote: »

I mean just think about how many times youre asked for both in Dublin City Centre.

Compared to how many times a complete stranger has walked up to me at 4am and said alrigh mate, it's a bit wet out. Any chance of driving me home?

Fr Tod Umptious

sugarman wrote: »

Yeah not buying it myself, if he was near a car... maybe. But its much more likely he was just asking for money or a smoke.

I mean just think about how many times youre asked for both in Dublin City Centre.

Yes absolutely, and that's an even more of a reason for Trevor and the colleague not to mention him or have much recollection of him

The point I'm making is that MIB could be doing something as innocent as sheltering from the rain, looking for a lift home, looking for a smoke.

tdf7187

andekwarhola wrote: »

So?

Genuinely don't get you. Have you lived a sheltered existence or something. Anyone that stayed out late in Dublin at that time would have shared taxis with drunk strangers at one time or other, reason being the taxi licenses cost 40k or so at peak, before Molloy liberalised it.

tdf7187

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'd ask that question if I was stuck out in the rain on that night in the year 2000, it's not that uncommon or at least was not that uncommon, and I'm not a nutter.

Correct. That area of Dublin was full of young people socialising and very few taxis around. That's my recollection of that era, having, you know, lived it.

EmmetSpiceland

sugarman wrote: »

Yeah not buying it myself, if he was near a car... maybe. But its much more likely he was just asking for money or a smoke.

I mean just think about how many times youre asked for both in Dublin City Centre.

It’s a terrible spot for begging. There are much better areas with much better shelter not too far from there.

andekwarhola

tdf7187 wrote: »

Genuinely don't get you. Have you lived a sheltered existence or something. .

I'm not one of your Columbo mates, dude. Simply reiterating your nonsense with more emphasis doesn't give it more gravity.

andekwarhola

tdf7187 wrote: »

Correct. That area of Dublin was full of young people socialising and very few taxis around. That's my recollection of that era, having, you know, lived it.

I socialised in town plenty back then too and well remember the taxi situation. I know that area well. Even had friends on Wilton Place. Ending up in an impromptu taxi share outstde a pub or at a rank is different to approaching a stranger asking them to drive you home.

I agree with FTE though. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility at all that the guy was just sheltering or asking for change or smokes. The fact that he turns away crestfallen looking would back that up. Also if he's supposedly stalking TD, he's not exactly going to stick around with his colleagues at the gate I would have thought.

u140acro3xs7dm

andekwarhola wrote: »

I socialised in town plenty back then too and well remember the taxi situation. I know that area well. Even had friends on Wilton Place. Ending up in an impromptu taxi share outstde a pub or at a rank is different to approaching a stranger asking them to drive you home.

I agree with FTE though. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility at all that the guy was just sheltering or asking for change or smokes. The fact that he turns away crestfallen looking would back that up. Also if he's supposedly stalking TD, he's not exactly going to stick around with his colleagues at the gate I would have thought.

Drink driving was a lot more common back then too. I remember getting lifts off strangers before, admittedly not from a pub in the city centre. People thumbing for lifts was a regular thing.

smelly sock

I think Trevor moments after being spotted for the last time on the ATM cctv interacted with the criminal gang. Things went badly wrong. I think the MIB is a complete red herring at this stage. It makes zero sense for someone to target Trevor like that with no motives whatsoever and no sign of premeditation. Far easier targets out there to mug too. Take for instance the woman seen on the ATM footage 30 seconds after Trevor. A far easier target.

Nobody had and reason to plan an attack on Trevor Deely. Not for the sake of a few poxy quid.

There are a multitude or reasons the MIB didnt come forward. Not withstanding the fact the footage is pretty shocking even when enhanced. He could be dead. He could have emigrated. He could be a pimp etc. He might not even realise that TD is missing and he was one of the last people to talk to him.

smelly sock

The fact that the couple and woman were both following in close enough proximity to Trevor and the other guy suggest he got further than we think maybe. They would surely have heard a gun shot if this is indeed what happened.

Between MIB the woman and couple youre talking 60 seconds. Again we're led to follow a narrative or isolation, stormy weather and nobody around. Apart from the weather their seemed to be plenty of comings and goings in the area. This leads to the thought that Trevor got further than we think.......

smelly sock

sugarman wrote: »

He wasnt just shot on the street you mad thing! Someone would have seen / heard that for sure in a residential area. I once heard someone being shot 3 streets over late at night.

He was alleged to have been brought to a house and threatened with a gun and the gun was accidently discharged killing him.

Yeh i know that this is alleged to have happened. But the latest media reports suggest he was accidently killed on haddington rd. You actually have to dig for the article that says he was brought to a house. I still think he must have got further than we think. Even if a struggle were to happen with the amount of traffic on the road it would have been copped. Its possible TD also went to the property of his own accord.

Alliance123

Guys, Trevor was a marked man that nite for whatever reason. Maybe as he used that route so much the 'pimp or pimps' were familiar with him. As Wheel20 pointed out the MIB was caught by the bollix when he followed TD who then slowed down on the call. MIB couldnt do anything then as TD was chatting to the security guy to open gate. If the MIB didnt know TD or his movements then why did he stop exactly where he knew TD was going to stop? He could have stopped anywhere and had NO reason for stopping there whatsoever.

There is no real shelter there, could easily have found a bus stop for better shelter. Ive no doubt MIB is the reason TD remains missing today sadly.

smelly sock

Alliance123 wrote: »

Guys, Trevor was a marked man that nite for whatever reason. Maybe as he used that route so much the 'pimp or pimps' were familiar with him. As Wheel20 pointed out the MIB was caught by the bollix when he followed TD who then slowed down on the call. MIB couldnt do anything then as TD was chatting to the security guy to open gate. If the MIB didnt know TD or his movements then why did he stop exactly where he knew TD was going to stop? He could have stopped anywhere and had NO reason for stopping there whatsoever.

There is no real shelter there, could easily have found a bus stop for better shelter. Ive no doubt MIB is the reason TD remains missing today sadly.

Motive??

Alliance123

tuxy wrote: »

I've done this, taken shelter in the hope that rain dies down. If it doesn't it will get to the point where I'm really knackered and just want my own bed so will head out into it again.

MIB didnt give a toss about the weather. He was wet anyway and had other things on his mind. If he was concerned about shelter he wouldn't have stood out there in the wide open for 30 mins + before TD came along.

BDI

smelly sock wrote: »

Yeh i know that this is alleged to have happened. But the latest media reports suggest he was accidently killed on haddington rd. You actually have to dig for the article that says he was brought to a house. I still think he must have got further than we think. Even if a struggle were to happen with the amount of traffic on the road it would have been copped. Its possible TD also went to the property of his own accord.

Have you a link to the article that says he went to a house?

tuxy

BDI wrote: »

Have you a link to the article that says he went to a house?

Most of the main news sources are behind a paywall.
So this is not the most reliable link
https://www.buzz.ie/news/trevor-deely-249848

However if that informant said that Trevor was abducted then he was taken would assume somewhere were he can't be seen by the public. So a house would be the obvious choice.

Alliance123

andekwarhola wrote: »

I socialised in town plenty back then too and well remember the taxi situation. I know that area well. Even had friends on Wilton Place. Ending up in an impromptu taxi share outstde a pub or at a rank is different to approaching a stranger asking them to drive you home.

I agree with FTE though. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility at all that the guy was just sheltering or asking for change or smokes. The fact that he turns away crestfallen looking would back that up. Also if he's supposedly stalking TD, he's not exactly going to stick around with his colleagues at the gate I would have thought.

Was caught by the bollix there tho wasnt he? He wasnt expecting the colleagues to rock up. Who could have predicted that? A quick hello to them then renders him inconsequential and less suspicious

Fr Tod Umptious

smelly sock wrote: »

Motive??

There is none

There is no motive for a criminal gang to watch or follow or attack someone like Trevor with premeditation.

What got the last thread closed was people creating a narrative around Trevor that supplied a motive for him to be targeted.

If he was the victim of a random attack on a quiet street then that's terribly sad and not unheard of, but IMO he was not the victim of a premeditated attack.

STB.

A lot of these lads would struggle to spell motive.

FFS. Motive. You really have no idea how many drug ravaged lunatics are out there. Dealers had addicts killed for insignificant debts. Their motivation is money. Drugs make people do crazy stuff.

noodler

STB. wrote: »

A lot of these lads would struggle to spell motive.

FFS. Motive. You really have no idea how many drug ravaged lunatics are out there. Dealers had addicts killed for insignificant debts. Their motivation is money. Drugs make people do crazy stuff.

The point is more motivation to, in the most extreme version of the theory, surveil his routes to and from work in previous day's, know what day his Xmas party is, where the party will be, watch him there, have a spotter at BOIAM because they somehow knew he'd walk there after the party etc etc.

That's the kind of motive posters above are questioning

smelly sock

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

There is none

There is no motive for a criminal gang to watch or follow or attack someone like Trevor with premeditation.

What got the last thread closed was people creating a narrative around Trevor that supplied a motive for him to be targeted.

If he was the victim of a random attack on a quiet street then that's terribly sad and not unheard of, but IMO he was not the victim of a premeditated attack.

I agree. It wasnt premeditated. I do believe however the criminal gang didnt just target him either. This wasnt a mugging gone wrong. If we are to believe he ended up in a house threatened at gun point it was hardly with the intention of robbing his wallet. Someone was pissed off enough with him to do that.

Day Lewin

smelly sock wrote: »

I agree. It wasnt premeditated. I do believe however the criminal gang didnt just target him either. This wasnt a mugging gone wrong. If we are to believe he ended up in a house threatened at gun point it was hardly with the intention of robbing his wallet. Someone was pissed off enough with him to do that.

Well, in fact, at the time there were several reports of exactly that - extortion with menaces. At a house in that area.
At least one tourist was shaken down this way, and he didn't like to tell his wife afterwards: an assignation made for sex or drugs, come to this address, and whoops! Your watch and your wallet, please!

It was an operation by a west-side criminal outfit who were working girls and drugs.
It is entirely possible that this happened to Trevor Deely and the gun actually got fired.
There's just no evidence whatever for it!

barc1985

Listen the dig that took place where they found the guns cost a fortune. A single guard or detective can't make that call that went right to the top because numerous high ranking police were either shown circumstantial evidence or testimony that was checked and deemed credible to receive funds for a dig like that. I hope his family get closure soon.