Compiling a list of FG poor performance

lawred2

They do seem to be on a mission to alienate themselves from pretty much everyone

McMurphy

Phoebas wrote: »

It seems you could make it up.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/varadkar-stands-over-decision-to-hold-ric-centenary-commemoration-973980.html

A defiant Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said the Government “stands over its decision” to commemorate members of the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC), saying it is a “shame” some public representatives are boycotting events.

I imagined it all, this must be my Pamela Ewing moment.

Phoebas

^^
I see you're doubling down on the Black and Tans spoof.

charlie14

Phoebas wrote: »

^^
I see you're doubling down on the Black and Tans spoof.

There was nothing comical about the Black and Tans.
They were a vicious collection of drunken thugs.

charlie14

McMurphy wrote: »

That one was probably one of the most shocking things FG have come out with yet imo.

You couldn't make it up, Leo proudly displays a portrait of Michael Collins in his office, and his party wants to commemorate the black and tans?

This government is now staggering around like a punch drunk boxer.

I can put some reasoning to John Bruton and Flanagan and a few old guard in Fine Gael being in favour of this, but for Varadkar to somehow think this was a good idea is beyond me.

If our own history wasn`t enough to show how foolhardy this idea, is I would have thought at the very least his own family history would have.
This is a man where two of his uncles were jailed for a year for taking part in peaceful protest marches in India against British rule.

Brock Turnpike

charlie14 wrote: »

This government is now staggering around like a punch drunk boxer.

I can put some reasoning to John Bruton and Flanagan and a few old guard in Fine Gael being in favour of this, but for Varadkar to somehow think this was a good idea is beyond me.

If our own history wasn`t enough to show how foolhardy this idea, is I would have thought at the very least his own family history would have.
This is a man where two of his uncles were jailed for a year for taking part in peaceful protest marches in India against British rule.

The problem there is that Leo has been fully FG'd. It was a deal he signed in order to take over the leadership.

Snow Garden

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/it-is-not-the-churchrsquos-job-to-provide-education-in-this-country-catholic-barrister-says-821199.html


Couple of years back, Government pushed to remove baptism barrier, but the church just said No.

IE: "We'll sue the crap out of you if you remove the barrier. We gave you the land and a lot of the buildings on the agreement that baptised children come first"

Even now, there are religious inspectors in Schools checking if catholic religion is being taught, it it's not they threaten to sack the principal (which that can do as they have a majority on the board of a massive amount of schools every school)

Jaysus will any government ever be brave enough to stand up to that Roman organisation.
Shure they still haven't paid up for the soft deal they got from FF on child abuse redress bill.

Phoebas

charlie14 wrote: »

There was nothing comical about the Black and Tans.
They were a vicious collection of drunken thugs.

Thankfully we're not commentating those guys so.

nc6000

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Highest number of patients in a single day waiting for beds today at 760. The narrative seems to be it's flu season but this is an annual thing.

Another sky high achievement for FG. The clowns are in power since 2011 so their excuses don't wash.

Literally asleep on the job.

This happens every year, first week of January and it all just falls apart and we haven't even really had much bad weather yet.

ChikiChiki

nc6000 wrote: »

This happens every year, first week of January and it all just falls apart and we haven't even really had much bad weather yet.

Exactly my point. We know it happens every year so why does it still happen? Why is there not a couple of hundred beds extra available to meet the demand.

They found 241 million down the back of the couch to fund an unnecessary dual carraigeway in Mayo. Its pathetic.

charlie14

Phoebas wrote: »

Thankfully we're not commentating those guys so.

I take it you meant commemorating.

If so how would we not be. ?
By commemorating the RIC of course we are commemorating not just the Black and Tans but the Auxiliaries as well.

It is like saying we are commemorating An Garda Síochána but not the Garda Traffic Corp.

charlie14

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

The problem there is that Leo has been fully FG'd. It was a deal he signed in order to take over the leadership.

If that actually is the case then that old Redmond faction tail in Fine Gael look to be still wagging the dog.

Phoebas

charlie14 wrote: »

I take it you meant commemorating.

If so how would we not be. ?
By commemorating the RIC of course we are commemorating not just the Black and Tans but the Auxiliaries as well.

It is like saying we are commemorating An Garda Síochána but not the Garda Traffic Corp.

Here's the context of these commemorations:

Expert Advisory Group on Commemorations wrote:

The Advisory Group recommends that the foundation of the Defence Forces and of An Garda Síochána should be commemorated appropriately.
Consideration should also be given to the organisation of specific initiatives to commemorate the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) and the Dublin Metropolitan Police (DMP) and to acknowledge their place in history.

And, if you need the dots connected, this from the Department of Justice:

This event is one of a large number of events taking place during this decade to acknowledge and commemorate significant events or developments in the history of our island one hundred years ago. It is not a celebration. It is an acknowledgement the historical importance of both the DMP and the RIC, and is in no sense a commemoration of the “Black & Tans” or the “Auxiliaries”.

Hope that clarifies things for you (if you're in the market for clarifications).

charlie14

Phoebas wrote: »

Here's the context of these commemorations:


And, if you need the dots connected, this from the Department of Justice:


Hope that clarifies things for you (if you're in the market for clarifications).

I have no problem connecting the dots nor do I need clarification on under whose auspices the Black and Tans and the Auxilaries operated.


Perhaps if I join some of the dots for you and clarify just who were are talking about here will give you a better understanding of why this is such a brainfart idea.


The commonly know Black and Tans, to give them their proper title were The Royal Irish Constabulary Special Reserve and the Auxilary Division were also a unit of the RIC.


As I said to you, to commemorate the RIC by pretending these thugs were not both units of the RIC would be like commemorating An Garda Síochána while excluding the Garda Traffic Corp or other units of An Garda Síochána.

Phoebas

^^ Yeah, maybe you're right.

Even though the official stated position is that this is not a commemoration of the Blank and Tans or the Auxiliaries, maybe in secret it is.

McMurphy

Phoebas wrote: »

^^ Yeah, maybe you're right.

Even though the official stated position is that this is not a commemoration of the Blank and Tans or the Auxiliaries, maybe in secret it is.

Several ministers who have stated their intentions to boycott the event will now need convincing on it now too, which will be a greater uphill struggle for Charlie and Leo to muster than convincing anonymous pseudonyms on the interweb.

Some people just don't know when they've been sold a pup though, so carry on.

charlie14

Phoebas wrote: »

^^ Yeah, maybe you're right.

Even though the official stated position is that this is not a commemoration of the Blank and Tans or the Auxiliaries, maybe in secret it is.

There is no maybe in it. These two units of thugs were part and parcel of the RIC during the War of Independence that we are supposedly commemorating.


As the old song goes you cannot have one without the other.

Or in this case two others

James Brown

Phoebas wrote: »

Here's the context of these commemorations:


And, if you need the dots connected, this from the Department of Justice:


Hope that clarifies things for you (if you're in the market for clarifications).

When you have to explain you are commemorating the Nazis but not the Gestapo, I think you should hand in the shovel before you enter Australian territory.

Plumbthedepths

Looks like someone was telling porkies about the expert groups recommendations.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/historian-accuses-government-of-using-advisory-group-like-a-mud-guard-1.4133051?mode=amp

James Brown

This sums up FG for me:

MM: "They should withdraw their accusation that, to quote Minister Flanagan, those who choose not to attend this event are abandoning 'mutual understanding and reconciliation'.

It's not FG who are wrong it's you for thinking FG are wrong.

McMurphy

Phoebas wrote: »

^^
I see you're doubling down on the Black and Tans spoof.

Spoof you say?

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Looks like someone was telling porkies about the expert groups recommendations.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/historian-accuses-government-of-using-advisory-group-like-a-mud-guard-1.4133051?mode=amp

Professor Ferriter wrote:

said the advisory group, which comprises of himself and other professional historians under the chairmanship of Dr Maurice Manning, did not recommend that a service for the RIC and the DMP be included in the list of State commemorations.

It is beyond me how Charlie Flanagan thought he would get that one over the line tbh.

The backpedaling and fallout from this one will be extraordinary.

Phoebas

McMurphy wrote: »

Spoof you say?





It is beyond me how Charlie Flanagan thought he would get that one over the line tbh.

The backpedaling and fallout from this one will be extraordinary.

Here's Ferriter's Commemorations group view in black and white on commemorating the RIC and the DMP:

Expert Advisory Group on Commemorations wrote:

The Advisory Group recommends that the foundation of the Defence Forces and of An Garda Síochána should be commemorated appropriately.
Consideration should also be given to the organisation of specific initiatives to commemorate the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) and the Dublin Metropolitan Police (DMP) and to acknowledge their place in history.

I think it's crystal clear that he was recommending commemoration. He's arguing semantics on the specific form it should take.

James Brown

Phoebas wrote: »

Here's Ferriter's Commemorations group view in black and white on commemorating the RIC and the DMP:


I think it's crystal clear that he was recommending commemoration. He's arguing semantics on the specific form it should take.

Except he disagrees with you.

charlie14

Phoebas wrote: »

Here's Ferriter's Commemorations group view in black and white on commemorating the RIC and the DMP:


I think it's crystal clear that he was recommending commemoration. He's arguing semantics on the specific form it should take.

Leaving the DMP in 1913 aside, If we were to acknowledge the actions of the RIC in our history during the War of Independence, something we are supposedly commemorating this year, I don`t think there is much in that period where history would be kind.

Phoebas

charlie14 wrote: »

Leaving the DMP in 1913 aside, If we were to acknowledge the actions of the RIC in our history during the War of Independence, something we are supposedly commemorating this year, I don`t think there is much in that period where history would be kind.

Agreed.
But we shouldn't only commemorate the things that make us look good.

James Brown

Phoebas wrote: »

Agreed.
But we shouldn't only commemorate the things that make us look good.

Are you suggesting we hold an RIC name and shame commemoration?

A state commemorating people and entities who actively fought and murdered to stop it coming into being is a farce.

Plumbthedepths

FG now deferring the commemoration of the RIC/DMP/Black&Tans. According to RTE News.

markodaly

Matt Barrett wrote: »

A state commemorating people and entities who actively fought and murdered to stop it coming into being is a farce.

We can therefore look forward to the same treatment we have given the RIC/DMP the past few days to Anti-Treaty IRA and their ilk.

James Brown

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

FG now deferring the commemoration of the RIC/DMP/Black&Tans. According to RTE News.

They should tack it on to the Siteserv investigation, never see the light of day.

"However, given the disappointing response of some to the planned event on 17th January, I do not believe that the event, as planned, can now take place in an atmosphere that meets the goals and guiding principles of the overall commemorative programme.

"Therefore, I am announcing its deferral."

Mr Flanagan added: "I know that, regrettably, this decision will be a cause of hurt and upset to many people. I commit to proceeding with an alternative commemoration in the months ahead.

Is he being nasty and bitter or just dumb?

Plumbthedepths

Sense has prevailed, although I suspect some damage has been done.

https://www.thejournal.ie/ric-cancelled-4956894-Jan2020/