Compiling a list of FG poor performance

blanch152

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

As I said rewriting history. Defending the attempt to commemorate the RIC/DMP/Black and Tans is pathetic imho. Three organisations of an occupying power that brutalized and murdered Irish civilians.
Deflect, spin all you want. Your tactics are like your colours( blue I suspect) clear as day.

There never was any intention to commemorate the Black&Tans, your post goes beyond spin.

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

There never was any intention to commemorate the Black&Tans, your post goes beyond spin.

The RIC and Tans worked hand in glove together. It's impossible to make a distinction between the two.

blanch152

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The Black and Tans were an auxiliary unit of the RIC. Commemorate one and by extension you commemorate the other,no amount of semantic word play will change that.
FG got it spectacularly wrong accept and move on stop blaming others.

Sinn Fein were an auxiliary unit of the IRA, remember the armalite in one hand, ballot box in the other. Does that mean a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for the IRA because that is what your logic suggests?

Similarly is a vote for Fine Gael a vote for Michael Lowry?

Plumbthedepths

blanch152 wrote: »

There never was any intention to commemorate the Black&Tans, your post goes beyond spin.

Sure when you're ready please provide your proof that the Tans were not an auxiliary force of the RIC . Commemorate one and by extension you commemorate the other. The Tans were barracking with the RIC. Amazing that you are defending the attempt to remember and respect ( definition of comemoration) an organisation that was found to have committed atrocities against the civilian population. Anyway I'm well aware of your tactics so I'll leave it at that and engage no further with a poster of your ilk any further on the matter.

Plumbthedepths

blanch152 wrote: »

Sinn Fein were an auxiliary unit of the IRA, remember the armalite in one hand, ballot box in the other. Does that mean a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for the IRA because that is what your logic suggests?

Similarly is a vote for Fine Gael a vote for Michael Lowry?

Ah the deflection defense.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

This has been an eye-opener into the hate bubbling beneath the surface of our society. Many of the people who are outraged by this and spitting venom are the same people who would be first to attend a Bobby Sands commemoration. Them-ums is a part of our society as much as the North.

Blanch, you just cannot - ever keep yourself from putting your foot in your mouth, anything at all in defence of FG


RIC controversy: Fine Gael councillors hit out at decision to hold commemoration

I'd ask you what the greens thought of the tan fest circle jerk, if I thought you actually gave a shiny shyte about what the greens thought.:D

Plumbthedepths

Just to counter the claim that the Black and Tans were not part of the RIC and therefore not part of the commemoration plans.

Explainer: Who Were The RIC? https://jrnl.ie/4956583

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

Interesting, your post mentions spin merchants, but you then talk about the commemoration of Black&Tans which was never part of the plan.

This has been an eye-opener into the hate bubbling beneath the surface of our society. Many of the people who are outraged by this and spitting venom are the same people who would be first to attend a Bobby Sands commemoration. Them-ums is a part of our society as much as the North.

Are you saying that the Royal irish Constabulary Special Reserves and the RIC Auxiliary Division had nothing to do with the RIC, you haven`t a clue, or are you just spouting your usual nonsense attempting to distract from yet another FG fcuk-up.

lawred2

blanch152 wrote: »

Interesting, your post mentions spin merchants, but you then talk about the commemoration of Black&Tans which was never part of the plan.

This has been an eye-opener into the hate bubbling beneath the surface of our society. Many of the people who are outraged by this and spitting venom are the same people who would be first to attend a Bobby Sands commemoration. Them-ums is a part of our society as much as the North.

Wouldn't be seen dead at a Bobby Sands memorial.

Wasn't remotely enamored by this commemoration plan at all.

In essence - you're talking sh!ite

Snow Garden

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They can't seem to help themselves trying to stick it to the other side, (folk who historically didn't want anything to do with Britain). Similar to how they tried to whitewash the 1916 centenary with Redmond featuring prominently. Odd I know but that's a vibe I get off Fine Gael, still bitter.
Be interesting to see if they try make the civil war commemorations one sided.

To be honest I am sick of the amount of time and money this country spends honouring the past. I know my history but it disgusts me how politicians hijack our history and glorious struggles to make themselves look/feel good. The civil war politics is a complete nonsense in 2020. We have way too many problems in the republic today without harping back to 1916 and 1921 all the time. For example the shambles of a health service. Maybe they should commemorate all the people that have died in our health system because of inefficiency, inaction, bureaucracy and waste.

Plumbthedepths

Snow Garden wrote: »

To be honest I am sick of the amount of time and money this country spends honouring the past. I know my history but it disgusts me how politicians hijack our history and glorious struggles to make themselves look/feel good. The civil war politics is a complete nonsense in 2020. We have way too many problems in the republic today without harping back to 1916 and 1921 all the time. For example the shambles of a health service. Maybe they should commemorate all the people that have died in our health system because of inefficiency, inaction, bureaucracy and waste.

Doubt if many in FG are feeling good as a result of Leo and Charlie's f**k up tbh.

McMurphy

Black and Tan commemoration coming up on the tonight show.

I've to be up at 5am, but this might be worth staying up for.

markodaly

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The Black and Tans were an auxiliary unit of the RIC. Commemorate one and by extension you commemorate the other,no amount of semantic word play will change that.
FG got it spectacularly wrong accept and move on stop blaming others.

If you knew your history, the Black and Tans were a militia imported from Britain as a way to try and quell republican activity. Many RIC members were appalled at this and resigned.

One of the biggest reason they were attached to the RIC and not the military was that Lloyd George did not want to give the Irish rebels credence or legitimacy. He didnt want to send soldiers as counter insurgency was seen as the policemans job. The then head of the RIC Joseph Byrne protested against this move as well, and was removed from his post.

markodaly

Fann Linn wrote: »

The RIC and Tans worked hand in glove together. It's impossible to make a distinction between the two.

The people who cant make the distinction are either historically illiterate or got their history lessons down the pub with a few rebel songs, or maybe both.

Fann Linn

markodaly wrote: »

The people who cant make the distinction are either historically illiterate or got their history lessons down the pub with a few rebel songs, or maybe both.

Nope. Plenty of links provided earlier on this thread by the paper of record linking the two. Upsetting as it maybe for the apologists.

charlie14

markodaly wrote: »

The people who cant make the distinction are either historically illiterate or got their history lessons down the pub with a few rebel songs, or maybe both.

Difficult to know just what you are saying.

Are you saying that both the Black and Tans and the Auxiliaries were not divisions of the RIC ?

Plumbthedepths

markodaly wrote: »

If you knew your history, the Black and Tans were a militia imported from Britain as a way to try and quell republican activity. Many RIC members were appalled at this and resigned.

One of the biggest reason they were attached to the RIC and not the military was that Lloyd George did not want to give the Irish rebels credence or legitimacy. He didnt want to send soldiers as counter insurgency was seen as the policemans job. The then head of the RIC Joseph Byrne protested against this move as well, and was removed from his post.

Far better for actual historians to counter your claim.


Explainer: Who were the RIC? https://jrnl.ie/4956583

Fann Linn

markodaly wrote: »

The people who cant make the distinction are either historically illiterate or got their history lessons down the pub with a few rebel songs, or maybe both.

Nope. Plenty of links provided earlier on this thread by the paper of record linking the two. Upsetting as it maybe for the apologists.

McMurphy

Fergus O'Dowd (him of the Irish Water outspokenness) admitted it was a "bridge too far"

How Fergus is still in the blueshirts is beyond me tbh

James Brown

Snow Garden wrote: »

To be honest I am sick of the amount of time and money this country spends honouring the past. I know my history but it disgusts me how politicians hijack our history and glorious struggles to make themselves look/feel good. The civil war politics is a complete nonsense in 2020. We have way too many problems in the republic today without harping back to 1916 and 1921 all the time. For example the shambles of a health service. Maybe they should commemorate all the people that have died in our health system because of inefficiency, inaction, bureaucracy and waste.

I think marking the 100 years is fair enough. it's obvious Fine Gael need educating on the topic.
I agree using the RIC to stick it to FF or SF or whomever was nasty. It makes a mockery of the country. Truth be told FF and FG only have differences when it suits.

McMurphy

The Indo has gone off on full anti black and tan mode this am, FG are in trouble over this one I reckon.



The "FG TDS who objected to the tan commemoration" have been named, Fergus O'Dowd and Alan Rock.

And the best thing about it is, Flanagan in typical FG arrogance has insisted that the commemoration is not cancelled, it's just been deferred to later on in the year - making it an election issue.

I would hope people keep that in mind when casting their votes..

What an absolute bunch of boot licking tossers.

FrancieBrady

Extraordinary that the attempt to sanitise the RIC is still going on here. FG got told in less than 24 hours that the Irish people are having none of that.

Not one single person has an objection to the role of the RIC and DMP and the Black and Tans being acknowledged in the way the Expert Group mentioned - as part of an academic review nor has anyone ever objected to yearly commemorations organised by TALK.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Maybe the Black and Tans commemoration was a tester to see if a 'Remember the Blue Shirts' parade might fly?

Well it won't be lost on FG that an examination of that period and a consequent wider public knowledge of it, is coming, so you may be onto something.

pjohnson

Fann Linn wrote: »

Nope. Plenty of links provided earlier on this thread by the paper of record linking the two. Upsetting as it maybe for the apologists.

Those werent Fine Gael Unionist approved.

blanch152

lawred2 wrote: »

Wouldn't be seen dead at a Bobby Sands memorial.

Wasn't remotely enamored by this commemoration plan at all.

In essence - you're talking sh!ite

You are not one of the many I mentioned in my post, I didn't say all, I didn't say most. Read it again.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not one single person has an objection to the role of the RIC and DMP and the Black and Tans being acknowledged in the way the Expert Group mentioned - as part of an academic review nor has anyone ever objected to yearly commemorations organised by TALK.

.

You mean the Expert Group that stated a commemoration should take place for the RIC.

There is zero mention of this 'academic review' in the report, that is Ferriter changing tact post haste.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Blanch, you just cannot - ever keep yourself from putting your foot in your mouth, anything at all in defence of FG


RIC controversy: Fine Gael councillors hit out at decision to hold commemoration

I'd ask you what the greens thought of the tan fest circle jerk, if I thought you actually gave a shiny shyte about what the greens thought.:D

It is quite astonishing the reaction to events 100 years old that this generates. It doesn't matter to me whether FG councillors are for or against the commemoration. In fact, if I was to get excited about 100-year old events, I wouldn't give FG the third or fourth preference vote that I do, given that my grandfather was badly beaten by Free State forces in jail during the Civil War and suffered all his life as a result. Being a prisoner of your history is a very sad state of affairs.

"Tan fest circle jerk" tells us all we need to know about how seriously you are treating this.


P.S. As I don't seem to have ever interacted with you before on this site, I don't get your personalised response.

is_that_so

blanch152 wrote: »

It is quite astonishing the reaction to events 100 years old that this generates. It doesn't matter to me whether FG councillors are for or against the commemoration. In fact, if I was to get excited about 100-year old events, I wouldn't give FG the third or fourth preference vote that I do, given that my grandfather was badly beaten by Free State forces in jail during the Civil War and suffered all his life as a result. Being a prisoner of your history is a very sad state of affairs.

"Tan fest circle jerk" tells us all we need to know about how seriously you are treating this.


P.S. As I don't seem to have ever interacted with you before on this site, I don't get your personalised response.

That's a rename of a poster you know very well!

pjohnson

blanch152 wrote: »

It is quite astonishing the reaction to events 100 years old that this generates. It doesn't matter to me whether FG councillors are for or against the commemoration. In fact, if I was to get excited about 100-year old events, I wouldn't give FG the third or fourth preference vote that I do, given that my grandfather was badly beaten by Free State forces in jail during the Civil War and suffered all his life as a result. Being a prisoner of your history is a very sad state of affairs.

"Tan fest circle jerk" tells us all we need to know about how seriously you are treating this.


P.S. As I don't seem to have ever interacted with you before on this site, I don't get your personalised response.

First and second preference sown up

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Extraordinary that the attempt to sanitise the RIC is still going on here. FG got told in less than 24 hours that the Irish people are having none of that.

Not one single person has an objection to the role of the RIC and DMP and the Black and Tans being acknowledged in the way the Expert Group mentioned - as part of an academic review nor has anyone ever objected to yearly commemorations organised by TALK.



Well it won't be lost on FG that an examination of that period and a consequent wider public knowledge of it, is coming, so you may be onto something.

https://www.decadeofcentenaries.com/publications/


Here is the link to their publications, perhaps you can show us where they mentioned an academic review, because I can't seem to find it.

However, I did find their initial statement:

https://www.decadeofcentenaries.com/wp-content/uploads/publications/Initial/Initial/index.html

Makes for interesting reading, and a convincing case for commemorating the RIC.

blanch152

pjohnson wrote: »

First and second preference sown up

Greens and Labour next time out.