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Compiling a list of FG poor performance

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  • Options
    #392
    pantomine2020
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭pantomine2020


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Greens and Labour next time out.

    Have to agree, no other options


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    #393
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    You mean the Expert Group that stated a commemoration should take place for the RIC.

    There is zero mention of this 'academic review' in the report, that is Ferriter changing tact post haste.

    Still digging in on this one?

    Ferriter was explaining what was meant. Like Flanagan you are clearly not able to read a document.

    Note page 4 which says the EG has outlined 'specific events and themes' as 'particularly significant in Appendix A. The group recommends a 3 tier approach for these events comprising a limited number of formal state occasions'....etc etc.

    Nowhere in APPENDIX A is the RIC/DMP mentioned as a significant theme or event.

    Yet FG decided (without consulting anyone it seems) to have 'a formal state occasion for the RIC/DMP.

    https://www.decadeofcentenaries.com/wp-content/uploads/publications/Guidance2018/Guidance2018/index.html


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    #394
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,852 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Greens and Labour next time out.


    Great more taxes


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    #395
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    McMurphy wrote: »
    The Indo has gone off on full anti black and tan mode this am, FG are in trouble over this one I reckon.

    IMG-20200108-074722.jpg

    The "FG TDS who objected to the tan commemoration" have been named, Fergus O'Dowd and Alan Rock.

    And the best thing about it is, Flanagan in typical FG arrogance has insisted that the commemoration is not cancelled, it's just been deferred to later on in the year - making it an election issue.

    I would hope people keep that in mind when casting their votes..

    What an absolute bunch of boot licking tossers.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/majority-of-ric-men-and-ira-opponents-born-on-the-same-land-1.4133186

    A very reasonable opinion piece in the Irish Times.

    "While there are legitimate questions for the Government about how the ceremony was imagined, discussed and organised, these should not blind us to the powerful truth – the majority of RIC men and their IRA opponents were born on and grew up to love the same land. They fought for different visions of Ireland but acknowledging the love they shared would be a good place to start."

    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Maybe the Black and Tans commemoration was a tester to see if a 'Remember the Blue Shirts' parade might fly? ;)

    I doubt the Irish Times columnists read these threads, but this extract from the column was eerily accurate:

    "The age of social media does the opposite. Slogans replace intelligent appraisal. We risk descending into the arid wilderness of name calling. To ask that we take a broader view or tolerate an opposing idea does not merit recourse to catch-calls like West Brit or Blueshirt."

    I am sure there are a few other posts I could reference from the hysteria on this and other threads.


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    #396
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    I see the attempts to blame anyone but FG for the aborted plan to commemorate the RIC/DMP/ Black and Tans is ongoing. Sorry lads noone including the media is buying it.


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    #397
    pantomine2020
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭pantomine2020


    average_runner wrote: »
    Great more taxes

    I think it would be fairer taxes but then Im not gullible enough to believe that politics is a rational sport


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    #398
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    average_runner wrote: »
    Great more taxes
    Only if they can talk their bigger partner into it. If that's FF who knows what they'll extract in exchange.


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    #399
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    average_runner wrote: »
    Great more taxes

    Eamon Ryan wants to reintroduce the wolf to the countryside, what could go wrong?


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    #400
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Still digging in on this one?

    Ferriter was explaining what was meant. Like Flanagan you are clearly not able to read a document.

    Note page 4 which says the EG has outlined 'specific events and themes' as 'particularly significant in Appendix A. The group recommends a 3 tier approach for these events comprising a limited number of formal state occasions'....etc etc.

    Nowhere in APPENDIX A is the RIC/DMP mentioned as a significant theme or event.

    Yet FG decided (without consulting anyone it seems) to have 'a formal state occasion for the RIC/DMP.

    https://www.decadeofcentenaries.com/wp-content/uploads/publications/Guidance2018/Guidance2018/index.html


    I still can't find any reference to your claim about an academic review in the documentation, did you make it up, or did you just rely on the views of one member of the group?

    Remember the initial statement I linked to? It states quite clearly:

    "Any ideas of views that we express in that personal professional capacity should not be taken as representing the views of the Advisory Group".

    Either you, or less likely Ferriter, have forgotten that.


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    #401
    pantomine2020
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭pantomine2020


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Eamon Ryan wants to reintroduce the wolf to the countryside, what could go wrong?

    Is that the best you can come up with? Plumbing the depths there all right


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    #402
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    pantomine2020 wrote: »
    Is that the best you can come up with? Plumbing the depths there all right
    Not at all, it was an illustration of the idiocy of the Greens. Feel free to vote for them.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/greens-call-for-wolves-to-be-reintroduced-to-ireland-1.4036692


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    #403
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I still can't find any reference to your claim about an academic review in the documentation, did you make it up, or did you just rely on the views of one member of the group?

    Remember the initial statement I linked to? It states quite clearly:

    "Any ideas of views that we express in that personal professional capacity should not be taken as representing the views of the Advisory Group".

    Either you, or less likely Ferriter, have forgotten that.

    I never said it was in the documentation, I was referencing what Ferriter said clearly yesterday.

    I also said yesterday that Flanagan, Madigan and Leo and FG HAVE TO OWN this decision to ramp up to a formal state occasion because as the actual documentation DOES clearly show that was never suggested by the EG.


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    #404
    pantomine2020
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭pantomine2020


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Not at all, it was an illustration of the idiocy of the Greens. Feel free to vote for them.

    I have and will.

    I am fully aware that most people will vote along civil war party lines so I dont hold great hope for the future of irish politics.


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    #405
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    pantomine2020 wrote: »
    I have and will.

    I am fully aware that most people will vote along civil war party lines so I dont hold great hope for the future of irish politics.

    Weren't the Greens part of the government which almost drove this country over the cliff. Short memory.


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    #406
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    The Irish green party are a shower of hypocritical morons. They attempt to block higher density living, try to scupper Dublin metro, god knows what else.


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    #407
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Weren't the Greens part of the government which almost drove this country over the cliff. Short memory.
    Better a short memory than one that can never forget ... anything.


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    #408
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Better a short memory than one that can never forget ... anything.

    Can't agree with the sentiment, a long memory I find is invaluable. Although the present political parties and their various hacks would rather a collective short memory of goldfish proportions.


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    #409
    pantomine2020
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭pantomine2020


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Weren't the Greens part of the government which almost drove this country over the cliff. Short memory.

    Instead of the usual shinner bot/ FG reply I propose you elaborate on this! How exactly did the greens contribute to the country going "over the cliff"? Maybe a brief overview of local and international politics and how they affected the financial system in the time preceding the crisis. Then look at the Irish banking system and (heres were your argument will be proven or dismissed) show how the green party contributed through legal instruments while junior partner in the government and to what extent, if any their intervention in the international financial aparatus and local banking system caused the crisis in Ireland?

    *Now just a warning on this, im not a fan of half truths and revisionist rhethoric just plain old anlysis and facts please.


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    #410
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    FF will get an election called very soon. I expect it to be held in February.


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    #411
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    pantomine2020 wrote: »
    Instead of the usual shinner bot/ FG reply I propose you elaborate on this! How exactly did the greens contribute to the country going "over the cliff"? Maybe a brief overview of local and international politics and how they affected the financial system in the time preceding the crisis. Then look at the Irish banking system and (heres were your argument will be proven or dismissed) show how the green party contributed through legal instruments while junior partner in the government and to what extent, if any their intervention in the international financial aparatus and local banking system caused the crisis in Ireland?

    *Now just a warning on this, im not a fan of half truths and revisionist rhethoric just plain old anlysis and facts please.

    Here's some
    plain old facts so, the Green party had seats at the cabinet table and were part of the government along with FF which oversaw the worst recession this country has experienced since the foundation of the state. Now if these facts are anyway incorrect feel fair to point out where I'm wrong.
    Sorry bud but you can't absolve the Greens of the mess created by a government they were willingly part of by any use of semantics and basic bs.
    Lastly don't assume everyone who disagrees with you is a party hack its a pathetic tactic.


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    #412
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Can't agree with the sentiment, a long memory I find is invaluable. Although the present political parties and their various hacks would rather a collective short memory of goldfish proportions.
    It's not terribly useful in terms of voting. Once you step outside the comfort of the recognised political entities your choices just get worse and worse. Some things have to be let go.


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    #413
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's not terribly useful in terms of voting. Once you step outside the comfort of the recognised political entities your choices just get worse and worse. Some things have to be let go.
    Your opinion, which again I completely but respectfully disagree with.


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    #414
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Your opinion, which again I completely but respectfully disagree with.
    Clearly the opinion of voters too given how few of them will vote outside of the traditional destination of votes. I'd include FF/FG and Labour plus the Greens as being without risk. Pity the SDs were never a proper party but they will still be happy to be part of a tail.


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    #415
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I never said it was in the documentation, I was referencing what Ferriter said clearly yesterday.
    FrancieBrady wrote: »

    Not one single person has an objection to the role of the RIC and DMP and the Black and Tans being acknowledged in the way the Expert Group mentioned - as part of an academic review nor has anyone ever objected to yearly commemorations organised by TALK.


    .


    So was it Ferriter or the Expert Group?

    Just asking so I can get today’s version of history correct.


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    #416
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    is_that_so wrote: »
    That's a rename of a poster you know very well! :D

    By a renamed poster we know very well ? :D


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    #417
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    FF will get an election called very soon. I expect it to be held in February.
    They are meeting tomorrow to discuss it. February is doubtful unless someone throws the toys out of the pram. Both of them want a legislative term and there's still Brexit to happen. Original April/May timeframe is far more likely. It would actually calm everyone down if they do agree an approximate date ASAP.


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    #418
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Eamon Ryan wants to reintroduce the wolf to the countryside, what could go wrong?

    The Green master-plan for reducing the number of cattle.


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    #419
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    is_that_so wrote: »
    They are meeting tomorrow to discuss it. February is doubtful unless someone throws the toys out of the pram. Both of them want a legislative term and there's still Brexit to happen. Original April/May timeframe is far more likely. It would actually calm everyone down if they do agree an approximate date ASAP.

    now would the perfect time to strike for FF in my opinion, or as close to now as possible. Look, they are all in the same boat regarding brexit...

    between the black and tans debacle, the waiting lists surge and all the other failures, I'd pull the plug as quickly as possible if I were FF...


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    #420
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    So was it Ferriter or the Expert Group?

    Just asking so I can get today’s version of history correct.

    It was Ferriter explaining the thinking of the Expert Group and I will have to check, but I think he said Flanagan was told this in discussions as well.

    All Flanagan had to say about it when asked was: 'Well I am not going to lock horns with Dr. Ferriter on this'.

    You may have missed this post. But it backs up Ferriter's version:

    Note page 4 which says the EG has outlined 'specific events and themes' as 'particularly significant in Appendix A. The group recommends a 3 tier approach for these events comprising a limited number of formal state occasions'....etc etc.

    Nowhere in APPENDIX A is the RIC/DMP mentioned as a significant theme or event.

    Yet FG decided (without consulting anyone it seems) to have 'a formal state occasion for the RIC/DMP.

    https://www.decadeofcentenaries.com/...018/index.html


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    #421
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    blanch152 wrote: »
    So was it Ferriter or the Expert Group?

    Just asking so I can get today’s version of history correct.

    You would really need to go back a little further than that to get the correct history.
    A few posts back you seemed to have difficulty with the various strands that made up the RIC during the War of Independence


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