Compiling a list of FG poor performance

McMurphy

I see Leo is going cap in hand to beg for 4 more months.

Varadkar's plea: give me four more months

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar will turn to controversial Independent TDs Noel Grealish and Michael Lowry in a bid to cling to power for the next four months.

Mr Varadkar is under pressure from his ministers to put distance between recent controversies, including the Black and Tans debacle, and the forthcoming general election.

Mr Varadkar said he would spend the coming days speaking to his party, Independent ministers and also Independent TDs who had supported the Government in the past, in an attempt to remain in power.

This will include Mr Grealish, whom the Taoiseach has criticised for his comments on migrants, and Mr Lowry, who has been convicted of a tax offence.

How the mighty have fallen.

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

I see Leo is going cap in hand to beg for 4 more months.

Varadkar's plea: give me four more months



How the mighty have fallen.

Is he trying to destroy FG altogether? If this is true it will just look like he is desperately trying to put distance between the monumental u-turn this week and facing the people, in the hope they will forget. He is creating yet another PR disaster for them and a stick for the opposition.

Phoebas

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This one is pretty simple really.. things are in many ways WORSE Now than they were pre-crash.

Well duh.
Before the crash we had the fake boom that led to the crash.

And we want to go back to that cycle again?

Wanderer78

Phoebas wrote: »

Well duh.
Before the crash we had the fake boom that led to the crash.

im fairly sure it was a real boom, particularly in building and rising house prices

Phoebas

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im fairly sure it was a real boom, particularly in building and rising house prices

Those prices were fueled by unsustainable levels of credit.
We have learned nothing.

Wanderer78

Phoebas wrote: »

Those prices were fueled by unsustainable levels of credit.
We have learned nothing.

agree on your first statement, but some what disagree on your second statement. bailing out the banks and not holding the financial sector to account to this calamity, has largely failed, we re currently learning this, but probably not realising it yet, so on we role, with nothing really changing

McMurphy

Phoebas wrote: »

Those prices were fueled by unsustainable levels of credit.
We have learned nothing.

Moriarty Tribunal still gathering dust.
Siteserv enquiry still not concluded
Broadband plan will most likely result in another enquiry

FG govts and Denis O'Brien.

True dat.

Idbatterim

It would be idiotic for ff etc to wait until June. Strike now ! Short days , January blues, a lot of people broke etc ! Hospital Crisis, far worse to be on the streets in January /February than April. Let us banish the Snake now damn it !

Snow Garden

I was pretty sure that FF would force the issue this month and a snap election would be triggered. It looks like after Easter is the most likely timing. The fact is that Martin is totally outplaying Leo now - he is forcing Leo to seek the support of Lowry/Grealish which will be another embarrassment.

_Kaiser_

NIMAN wrote: »

so Kaiser, are you supporting the return of a FF Gov to fix all these problems?

I'm saying that the return of a FF Government is inevitable as a result of how FG have performed in the last 8/9 years.

Although this is following historical precedent, it's still some achievement to make a party that was decimated in 2011 - with many of the same personalities still around - leading contenders to form the next Government. Well done FG!

But that said, looking at our available choices, there's a very good reason why that is.
Unless you really want SF in government (which the majority really don't when it comes to polling day), want a Government hamstrung by a gaggle of one issue "Independents" (or reliant on characters like Lowry as highlighted in the post above), or your sympathies lie with the alphabet soup lefties (whose only real value is to hold the Government to account by exposing things they'd rather we didn't see), then your choices are FF or FG (with whatever mudguard they go into coalition with - LAB who abandoned their own voters for their turn at the trough, the SD's with questionable candidate selections and religious ethos that doesn't fit with Ireland 2020, or the tax everything Greens who were at the helm with FF last time too remember!

So we're back to FF and FG, and even FG are convincing voters that it's time for FF to take charge again (more than they already have with the current confidence and supply agreement).

At least FF recognise that you have to give the peasantry something back occasionally I suppose. With FG it's all take take take and sell off whatever they can to the connected private sector.

_Kaiser_

GoneHome wrote: »

Kaiser, while I agree with you to an extent, the points in your post are really "city" based as in I live in rural Co Limerick about 45 minutes from the city, and while things are far from perfect they are a hell of alot better in the past 3 to 4 years in comparison to ten years ago when the crash happened, high employment, good school and community facilities, etc. Also price of houses in this area now are at a realistic level compared to the over-inflated prices during the so called Celtic Tiger, people in this area can now buy a resonably priced house in the area for €150,000 average. All that being said there's no love for Leo or his cohortets especially after the RIC/Black and Tan debacale

I'll be honest, I'm not overly swayed by the RIC/Black and Tan thing. I recognise that it's still a very emotive issue for many and FG's handling of it was idiotic (especially for a party so concerned with spin and image) - but if we ever are to move forward as a united country, an acceptance that terrible and utterly wrong atrocities were committed by both/all sides needs to land, so that the process of healing and reconciliation can begin....but as can be seen by the genuinely (and in fairness understandable) disgusted reactions, we're not there yet - despite all the talk of a United Ireland being on the horizon for some.

I live in a similar location by the sound of it about an hour from Dublin where property is more affordable, things are bustling and so on.. But the majority of the town is on the road/train to Dublin every day which eats into take home pay (commuting isn't cheap) and quality of life (poor public transport means people spend 90 minutes upwards each way each day in traffic jams) , childcare is still very expensive, renting is expensive (not by comparison to Dublin, but for where you are) and availability limited, and I think a lot of the prosperity that we're seeing over say the Christmas period is fuelled by credit cards, PCP car finance deals, and other artificial indicators.

Everyone is affected by the health crisis (I spent 9 hours sitting on an uncomfortable chair in A&E before Christmas), the insurance costs affect everyone too, and small/medium businesses which are the lifeblood of most local economies are under increasing threat of closure as a result too or result in higher prices and costs either way.

blanch152

Snow Garden wrote: »

I was pretty sure that FF would force the issue this month and a snap election would be triggered. It looks like after Easter is the most likely timing. The fact is that Martin is totally outplaying Leo now - he is forcing Leo to seek the support of Lowry/Grealish which will be another embarrassment.

Not so sure about that. FG/FF could have agreed last night to dissolve the Dail next Wednesday when it returns. Why tell others so that the others can prepare for an election?

Loafing Oaf

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is he trying to destroy FG altogether? If this is true it will just look like he is desperately trying to put distance between the monumental u-turn this week and facing the people, in the hope they will forget.

Is that not a reasonable move for a taoiseach in the midst of a damaging controversy?

Snow Garden

blanch152 wrote: »

Not so sure about that. FG/FF could have agreed last night to dissolve the Dail next Wednesday when it returns. Why tell others so that the others can prepare for an election?

You might be right. My sources in FG told me they were expecting an election to be called in January and held in February.

blanch152

Snow Garden wrote: »

You might be right. My sources in FG told me they were expecting an election to be called in January and held in February.

Only question is whether it is Valentine's Day or the following week.

Idbatterim

Kaiser puts if far more eloquently than me, at this stage, I think I'd like a FF sernior / FG junior coalition. I think its by far the best option of all the **** choices...

I would also go onto say (although I may eat my words at some point in the future) its hard to see how FF would have done any worse than FG over the past 8/9 years...

I also have said multiple times, if our choices are pathetic, that the only solution we have, is to swap them in and out, until they potentially realise, that they actually need to improve things, or will lose power to each other. Up to now, all you had to do, to not lose power, was not crash the economy. Well the economy is booming and FG will likely be out on their ear. Absolutely pathetic.

The main issues, is the primarily abandoned their core vote. Whether this is or is not the case in fact, they are likely going to lose power to FF because of it...

FrancieBrady

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Is that not a reasonable move for a taoiseach in the midst of a damaging controversy?

Is handing another stick to your opposition a 'reasonable move'?

FG under Varadkar, despite spending millions on it, cannot seem to get a PR machine working properly.I think now the reason is they are actually totally disconnected from the electorate and operate in a particular bubble.
For instance, the inability to see that an RIC/DMP state commemoration was potentially controversial. A smarter Taoiseach, would have said nothing about that until the Minister rolled it out. Leo couldn't wait to be all over it in the mistaken belief that it would reflect well on him.(it probably would inside a particular FG bubble)
What he ended up having to do was spin backwards in such a clumsy way even the most newbie political observer could see it.

Disastrous really. Now he has allowed himself to be seen going cap in hand to two back benchers for support. Woeful optics with an election imminent.

_Kaiser_

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG under Varadkar, despite spending millions on it, cannot seem to get a PR machine working properly.I think now the reason is they are actually

It's worse thsn that... the FG leadership are disconnected from even their own membership - hence why Varadkar was selected over Coveney for leadership.

Although, as I've said before, I think given the choice of the two Leo was better insofar as the damage he could do is limited (he's just not interested in anything outside his own profile and bucket list - "meet Kylie, check!):rolleyes:), it's never a good sign when even your own supporters are left out in the cold as well.

ChikiChiki

Snow Garden wrote: »

You might be right. My sources in FG told me they were expecting an election to be called in January and held in February.

Thats a good explanation why Leo is looking for four more months after his massive screw up this week. He needs time. Would not be surprised if FG are at around 23% approval right now.

Loafing Oaf

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is handing another stick to your opposition a 'reasonable move'?

Well it's Hobson's choice. If he calls the election for February the 'Black & Tan' thing will be fresh in people's minds. Like if the election had happened late last year, the 'war of the buttons' would have hit FF's vote, but that seems to have largely blown over now.

Like you say, if he pushes the election out till after Easter, it will be recognized by most observers as a bid to distance the government from the above controversy, but the move would be made with floating voters in mind, who don't necessarily think very deeply about these things but might be slightly more likely to vote FG if the overall vibe around the government is a bit less toxic.

Cina

blanch152 wrote: »

Only question is whether it is Valentine's Day or the following week.

Well at least everyone will get f*cked on Valentine's Day this year then.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Only question is whether it is Valentine's Day or the following week.

Valentine's Day massacre.

FrancieBrady

Looks like something is afoot.

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1215568239335481344

First comment is funny.

Update on Harry and Meghan maybe ? Surely it couldn't be about the state of the country

Loafing Oaf

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'm saying that the return of a FF Government is inevitable as a result of how FG have performed in the last 8/9 years.
But that said, looking at our available choices, there's a very good reason why that is.

But doesn't responsibility for this ultimately fall back on the voters themselves? If you're genuinely dissatisfied with all of the options on the ballot paper, there is no obligation on 'the system' to do anything about that on your behalf.

blanch152

Idbatterim wrote: »

I would also go onto say (although I may eat my words at some point in the future) its hard to see how FF would have done any worse than FG over the past 8/9 years...

Given that FG performed better over the last 8/9 years than FF did over the previous 8/9 years (Cowen's government were the worst of all time), I find that a strange statement.

_Kaiser_

blanch152 wrote: »

Given that FG performed better over the last 8/9 years than FF did over the previous 8/9 years (Cowen's government were the worst of all time), I find that a strange statement.

Please elaborate on that statement.

If you're going to fall back on the soundbites of "full employment", "booming economy" etc then don't bother though. These are the result of our very open economy and its heavy reliance on FDI and exports. If the global economy does well (as it has in the last few years), we do well - and equally vice versa! (as in 2008). If anything FG have done everything they can to hamper it via the housing and rental mess and the lack of public transport infrastructure, and the high costs of living generally - things that have been called out by CEOs of the big players here

But those aside, I'd love to see what FG have "performed better" on in the last 8 years!

blanch152

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Please elaborate on that statement.

If you're going to fall back on the soundbites of "full employment", "booming economy" etc then don't bother though. These are the result of our very open economy and its heavy reliance on FDI and exports. If the global economy does well (as it has in the last few years), we do well - and equally vice versa! (as in 2008). If anything FG have done everything they can to hamper it via the housing and rental mess and the lack of public transport infrastructure, and the high costs of living generally - things that have been called out by CEOs of the big players here

But those aside, I'd love to see what FG have "performed better" on in the last 8 years!

2008 Bank guarantee - the worst decision in the country's history.

No further elaboration needed.

Plumbthedepths

blanch152 wrote: »

2008 Bank guarantee - the worst decision in the country's history.

No further elaboration needed.

Only one party voted against the bank guarantee, it wasn't FG.

blanch152

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Only one party voted against the bank guarantee, it wasn't FG.

Yes, Labour, gets them a second preference from me, if Joan Burton is running, as it was her advisor who pushed their opposition.

_Kaiser_

blanch152 wrote: »

2008 Bank guarantee - the worst decision in the country's history.

No further elaboration needed.

That's all you have? As pointed out FG didn't vote against it, and it then of course subsequently emerged that Lehihan was basically being forced to accept the "cheapest bailout in history" :rolleyes: afterwards

But that was 2008. You said the last 8/9 years as evidence of FG performing better. Still waiting for examples...?