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Compiling a list of FG poor performance

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    #662
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,867 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    cannotlogin wrote: »
    I would prefer vote FG than FF due to historic past performance however FG are making it difficult especially in recent weeks.

    Liked Leo before he was Taoiseach and he appeared somewhat capable, however his obsession with his personal image, media control, photo ops etc has turned me off, he has also made a huge number of statements which show him to be very out of touch with the ordinary citizen.

    Leo has always been a useless self-obsessed empty suit in Government. When he was a Minister he always had a soundbite and comment for the media - usually about someone else's department... but what can we point to from his time as Health or Transport minister as capable?
    A change in Leadership to Simon Coveney, who appears to have more interest in actual politics than self promotion would improve party popularity.

    Coveney is certainly more capable, but would be worse in the long run. The one good thing about Leo's government is that thanks to the deals Enda made to make records for himself :rolleyes: his ability to do any real damage has been limited.

    Still, even depsite that he managed to perform so badly that he and his gang have made FF electable again!
    I think Simon Harris has ability and does appear to have some strong skills but the Health portfolio was always going to be a tough one. In fairness, Ireland hadn't had a good minister for health in my living memory.

    Eoghan Murphy, imo, just isn't competent or even likeable and if you don't have ability, you at least need charisma to compensate in some way. I think he's a bigger problem for FG than Harris.

    Harris is as bad as Murphy. The guy has no track record in anything outside of politics and it's ridiculous how he's been elevated to a senior Minister despite this. Leo trying to build a new cadre within FG I guess (probably an attejmpt to stifle Coveney's ambitions), except he picked piss-poor candidates!

    Still, given Leo's own track record and priorities (image over results) we shouldn't be surprised I suppose.
    FG also seems to include some woefully unsuitable people in the party:

    Mary Mitchell O'Connor (I cannot think of one positive thing she has contributed, every time she opens her mouth it gets worse),

    Charlie Flanagan (badly misjudged a lot of things & supports some questionable agendas)

    Michelle Mulherin does the party no good either

    Maria Walsh also appears to be like Leo in the subtle over substance category too

    Dara Murphy, Maria Bailey, Verona Murphy also did a lot of damage

    This is why the notion of FG being somehow "better" and "more responsible" than the others is exactly that... just a notion!


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    #663
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,867 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Only an in bred would think FF would be any better

    Not "better", but "not as bad".

    I keep saying it, but that is the reason why FF are always returned to power in the end. FG are elected as a protest vote, and the subsequent line of scandals, waste and dodgy deals (ultimately making things worse) remind us why that is.


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    #664
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Leo has always been a useless self-obsessed empty suit in Government. When he was a Minister he always had a soundbite and comment for the media - usually about someone else's department... but what can we point to from his time as Health or Transport minister as capable?



    Coveney is certainly more capable, but would be worse in the long run. The one good thing about Leo's government is that thanks to the deals Enda made to make records for himself :rolleyes: his ability to do any real damage has been limited.

    Still, even depsite that he managed to perform so badly that he and his gang have made FF electable again!



    Harris is as bad as Murphy. The guy has no track record in anything outside of politics and it's ridiculous how he's been elevated to a senior Minister despite this. Leo trying to build a new cadre within FG I guess (probably an attejmpt to stifle Coveney's ambitions), except he picked piss-poor candidates!

    Still, given Leo's own track record and priorities (image over results) we shouldn't be surprised I suppose.



    This is why the notion of FG being somehow "better" and "more responsible" than the others is exactly that... just a notion!

    They used to say In Britain in the 80s you could smell the result of your vote.
    That has rarely if ever been the result in Ireland. The two parties are largely similar. FG/FF.
    However voting IND or looney left is a waste.
    Vote for alternative parties that will serve in government


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    #665
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Not "better", but "less worse".

    I keep saying it, but that is the reason why FF are always returned to power in the end. FG are elected as a protest vote, and the subsequent line of scandals, waste and dodgy deals (ultimately making things worse) remind us why that is.

    Your point is badly expressed. Are you honestly saying FG are more corrupt than FF?!


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    #666
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,867 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    They used to say In Britain in the 80s you could smell the result of your vote.
    That has rarely if ever been the result in Ireland. The two parties are largely similar. FG/FF.
    However voting IND or looney left is a waste.
    Vote for alternative parties that will serve in government

    I agree.. unfortunately our alternatives outside of the Big 2 or the looney left are various degrees of bad.

    In many ways we're a one party State. But to change that, many of the Irish electorate would have to start thinking about more than themselves or their immediate locality (TDs should never be dealing with fixing pot holes or helping with planning - that's why we have an army of local councillors), and what's good for the country as a whole.

    But, we're not there yet I think.


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    #667
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Not "better", but "not as bad".

    I keep saying it, but that is the reason why FF are always returned to power in the end. FG are elected as a protest vote, and the subsequent line of scandals, waste and dodgy deals (ultimately making things worse) remind us why that is.

    Or...

    Having to implement harsh austerity measures because of FF makes people hate them.

    FF is forgiven and we go again.

    See you in 10 years.


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    #668
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,867 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Your point is badly expressed. Are you honestly saying FG are more corrupt than FF?!

    Lowry affair, Siteserv inquiry, Swinggate, dodgy insurance claims, Reilly and the Health Care locations etc...

    FG are certainly no better anyway. The omly reason we don't see more of it I reckon is because they traditionally are rarely in Government for too long before they convince the electorate it's time to let FF at it again.


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    #669
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,867 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Or...

    Having to implement harsh austerity measures because of FF makes people hate them.

    FF is forgiven and we go again.

    See you in 10 years.

    Oh please! You make it sound like FG are poor misunderstood victims of a fickle electorate who don't know what's giood for them!

    FG had a chance in 2011 to change all that.. to drive REAL change, REAL reform, and actually move the country forward for the first time in a generation.

    But nope, far more important that they had their turn at the trough and Enda's crusade for personal bests :rolleyes: All while key things in the country get worse!

    That's what has brought them down (again!). The fault for that lies solely with FG.


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    #670
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Or...

    Having to implement harsh austerity measures because of FF makes people hate them.

    FF is forgiven and we go again.

    See you in 10 years.

    You made a claim yesterday that the raid on private pensions was an agreement between FF and the Troika. I linked an article from the Indo that showed your claim was untrue. The same article also showed how FG had a lot of latitude in how they made adjustments . FG choose to attack the vulnerable in society.


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    #671
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Lowry affair, Siteserv inquiry, Swinggate, dodgy insurance claims, Reilly and the Health Care locations etc...

    FG are certainly no better anyway. The omly reason we don't see more of it I reckon is because they traditionally are rarely in Government for too long before they convince the electorate it's time to let FF at it again.

    What's the story with siteserv?

    Must have missed the outcome.

    Lowry wouldn't have a patch on bertie or charie or Michael Martin and the cheque in his wife's account he knows nothing about.

    Give it over.

    Making out FF better in any way.


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    #672
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    In case you missed the article Jingle, posted again for your consideration.


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/government-defied-the-troika-with-pension-raid-26784791.html


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    #673
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    You made a claim yesterday that the raid on private pensions was an agreement between FF and the Troika. I linked an article from the Indo that showed your claim was untrue. The same article also showed how FG had a lot of latitude in how they made adjustments . FG choose to attack the vulnerable in society.

    No.

    It was FFs agreement and decision to raid the pensions.

    All agreed in the bailout.

    Your link showed it wasn't dvised by certain groups.

    The facts are it had to happen as FF left us with no choice.


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    #674
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    What's the story with siteserv?

    Must have missed the outcome.

    Lowry wouldn't have a patch on bertie or charie or Michael Martin and the cheque in his wife's account he knows nothing about.

    Give it over.

    Making out FF better in any way.

    Siteserv inquiry not completed yet but the expected cost to touch on 30million.


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    #675
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Siteserv inquiry not completed yet but the expected cost to touch on 30million.

    Cool.

    What's your point?


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    #676
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    No.

    It was FFs agreement and decision to raid the pensions.

    All agreed in the bailout.

    Your link showed it wasny advised my certain groups.

    The facts are it had to happen as FF left us with no choice.

    Its in the article lad. Don't be telling porkies now


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    #677
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Its in the article lad. Don't be telling porkies now

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/28/ireland-bailout-contribution-pensions

    EU ministers tonight spelt out the terms of Ireland's €85bn international financial rescue package, and revealed the Dublin government will have to raid its national pension fund and other cash reserves for €17.5bn as a condition of the deal to bail out its banks and debt-laden economy


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    #678
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Or...

    Having to implement harsh austerity measures because of FF makes people hate them.

    FF is forgiven and we go again.

    See you in 10 years.
    There were no harsh austerity measures. Tens of billions were borrowed and loaded onto current and future taxpayers. Hell , you can get away without paying a mortgage to banks here for years . The only ones to take a bad hit, were private sector workers who were made redundant or had to take significant pay cuts ...


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    #679
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    I think FF were full of very very dodgy TDs prior to 2011. Then most of them thankfully lost their seats.

    FG are now full of very dodgy TDs (e.g. Dara Murphy, Madigan, Bailey, Farrell). They had even more dodgy TDs prior to 2016 election (e.g. Mulherrin who got into Seanad, Reilly also). Power corrupted them and it seems to be getting worse and worse with new stories every other day.

    FF and FG are both very alike. I wont vote for either. Or SF for that matter.


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    #680
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/28/ireland-bailout-contribution-pensions

    EU ministers tonight spelt out the terms of Ireland's €85bn international financial rescue package, and revealed the Dublin government will have to raid its national pension fund and other cash reserves for €17.5bn as a condition of the deal to bail out its banks and debt-laden economy

    Not private pensions.


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    #681
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Not private pensions.

    Haha good one.

    Wiggle wiggle.


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    #682
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/28/ireland-bailout-contribution-pensions

    EU ministers tonight spelt out the terms of Ireland's €85bn international financial rescue package, and revealed the Dublin government will have to raid its national pension fund and other cash reserves for €17.5bn as a condition of the deal to bail out its banks and debt-laden economy

    It's in the link, you even copied and pasted it.

    You do know the difference right?


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    #683
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    Your point is badly expressed. Are you honestly saying FG are more corrupt than FF?!

    They are as bad. Even worse than FF at hiding it.


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    #684
    Pintman Paddy Losty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭Pintman Paddy Losty


    FG have performed exceptionally well in the last few years. Wouldn't be surprised to see them increase their number of seats in the next election.


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    #685
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »
    FG have performed exceptionally well in the last few years. Wouldn't be surprised to see them increase their number of seats in the next election.

    Why don't you put money on that sunshine? I am sure Paddy Power are calculating the odds now.

    They lost 16 seats in 2016.


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    #686
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »
    FG have performed exceptionally well in the last few years. Wouldn't be surprised to see them increase their number of seats in the next election.

    Cop on.


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    #687
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Haha good one.

    Wiggle wiggle.

    Wiggle wiggle? I told you yesterday that no agreement existed to raid private pensions. You proceeded to lie
    and say that there was. I provided a link to back up what I said. Yet you still insist on lying, why?


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    #688
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    They used to say In Britain in the 80s you could smell the result of your vote.
    That has rarely if ever been the result in Ireland. The two parties are largely similar. FG/FF.
    However voting IND or looney left is a waste.
    Vote for alternative parties that will serve in government

    I do enjoy this kind of analysis. FG are bad but FF are no better, but you'd be mad to vote for anyone else. Then roll on a few years and reverse and repeat.


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    #689
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Maybe you should listen to the interview?

    SlainteCare is a 10 year program. The minister clearly used it to fob off questions about the trolley crisis today. Enda promised to end the Trolley crisis 10 years ago! The trolley crisis has never been worse. The doctor on the panel spelled out what needed to be done and it wasn't another mass.

    The election is coming in February anyway so they can defend FG's inaction in Health in depth.

    Sigh... Enda is no longer Taoiseach for years now. What Enda did was wrong, and FG appears to have learned from it, not to promise the earth moon and stars to the electorate. Will we see other parties fall into that trap?

    But you answered my question in a way. You are saying other TD's had no solution either.. but give them the vote. :D


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    #690
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Madigan is surely finished if this is true.

    Apparently seeking legal advice as its claimed its a lie.

    https://twitter.com/PieceOfPi552/status/1216181352737001474

    But really, the Daily Mail? They are always the paragons of truth, arent they. :)
    Besides, Glasnevin cemetery is run by a private trust.


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    #691
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »
    FG have performed exceptionally well in the last few years. Wouldn't be surprised to see them increase their number of seats in the next election.

    They have been exemplary. The reason why they let all the national crises worsen was because tackling them isn't in their interest. More money to be made of a crisis. They'll all move on with fat pensions and jobs from friends. F***k all the people, they aren't 'our own' anyway.

    Looking forward to the farce of FG and FF having a go at each others record the last several years.


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