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Compiling a list of FG poor performance

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    #902
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭storker


    markodaly wrote: »
    Funny, but again, how?

    FF will build social houses.... using what to fund it?

    Taxation or borrowing. The way social housing was always paid for until the neoliberals got their claws into it.


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    #903
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    storker wrote: »
    Taxation or borrowing. The way social housing was always paid for until the neoliberals got their claws into it.

    Great, at least its something tangible.

    So, how much do we have to borrow, taking in mind that we are still subject to EY fiscal rules.
    If we cannot borrow it all, where do we raise the taxes?


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    #904
    Gen.Zhukov
    Registered Users Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭Gen.Zhukov


    There has been a massive increase in the 'talking over other people' from the FG crew during interviews and debates recently. While all politicians engage in this to some level, FG have ramped it up to 11.
    I noticed it over the last few months with; Keohe, Madigan, O’Dowd, Regina D and most recently, Coveney on prime time last night.

    This is an obvious tactic introduced while FG were having some pre-election media training. The idea being, when your opponent is making valid and factual points about you/your party, interrupt-talk over-disrupt etc so the points are not made satisfactorily.

    It’s an old and quite disgusting tactic and I hope the interviewers, presenters and debate moderators pick up on this and shut it down.


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    #905
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Gen.Zhukov wrote: »
    There has been a massive increase in the 'talking over other people' from the FG crew during interviews and debates recently. While all politicians engage in this to some level, FG have ramped it up to 11.
    I noticed it over the last few months with; Keohe, Madigan, O’Dowd, Regina D and most recently, Coveney on prime time last night.

    This is an obvious tactic introduced while FG were having some pre-election media training. The idea being, when your opponent is making valid and factual points about you/your party, interrupt-talk over-disrupt etc so the points are not made satisfactorily.

    It’s an old and quite disgusting tactic and I hope the interviewers, presenters and debate moderators pick up on this and shut it down.


    I`ve noticed the same this past while. Josepha Madigan in particular on Sunday with Brian Dobson was like a bullhorn.

    It may play well to the converted, but to me, and I suspect many others, it is just annoying.


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    #906
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    markodaly wrote: »
    Great, at least its something tangible.

    So, how much do we have to borrow, taking in mind that we are still subject to EY fiscal rules.
    If we cannot borrow it all, where do we raise the taxes?
    You know what I think would be far more “ fair “ let those in social housing actually pay a reasonable rent and make sure they pay. That would fund a lot more housing for others that would benefit massively , like those currently in social housing. What do we get ? Workers can’t afford their own place , partially due to being taxed too much , so so much largesse can be thrown at others. For vote winning reasons. It’s a disgusting farce !


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    #907
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It's a good scheme and benefits a lot of people.

    Not the taxpayer. Not people looking for more social or affordable housing to be built


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    #908
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Gen.Zhukov wrote: »
    There has been a massive increase in the 'talking over other people' from the FG crew during interviews and debates recently. While all politicians engage in this to some level, FG have ramped it up to 11.
    I noticed it over the last few months with; Keohe, Madigan, O’Dowd, Regina D and most recently, Coveney on prime time last night.

    This is an obvious tactic introduced while FG were having some pre-election media training. The idea being, when your opponent is making valid and factual points about you/your party, interrupt-talk over-disrupt etc so the points are not made satisfactorily.

    It’s an old and quite disgusting tactic and I hope the interviewers, presenters and debate moderators pick up on this and shut it down.

    Coveney was actually a disgrace last night...marginally outdisgraced by Miriam's inability to do her job.

    I think it will be counter productive for FG if they keep it up. It does seem to be an instruction as Madigan did it repeatedly on The Week In Politics.


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    #909
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Gen.Zhukov wrote: »
    There has been a massive increase in the 'talking over other people' from the FG crew during interviews and debates recently. While all politicians engage in this to some level, FG have ramped it up to 11.
    I noticed it over the last few months with; Keohe, Madigan, O’Dowd, Regina D and most recently, Coveney on prime time last night.

    This is an obvious tactic introduced while FG were having some pre-election media training. The idea being, when your opponent is making valid and factual points about you/your party, interrupt-talk over-disrupt etc so the points are not made satisfactorily.

    It’s an old and quite disgusting tactic and I hope the interviewers, presenters and debate moderators pick up on this and shut it down.

    It is nothing new, except maybe from FG. The idea behind it is to change the narrative. Sinn Fein have been brilliant at it for years whenever difficult questions come up about their past and its living legacy. Trump and Johnson are masters of the trade as well. FG want to move the narrative from what's wrong to what's right and that will take a lot of heavy lifting.

    I don't think that it will work, but it shows that they are well-prepared.


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    #910
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    blanch152 wrote: »
    It is nothing new, except maybe from FG. The idea behind it is to change the narrative. Sinn Fein have been brilliant at it for years whenever difficult questions come up about their past and its living legacy. Trump and Johnson are masters of the trade as well. FG want to move the narrative from what's wrong to what's right and that will take a lot of heavy lifting.

    I don't think that it will work, but it shows that they are well-prepared.


    It does seem to be a FG tactic, but imho it is one that could end up very counterproductive.
    It might appeal to the converted, but to everyone else it can easily become just annoying.

    Political interviews should never be about allowing one party`s narrative to be bull horned over everyone else`s.


    Interviewers, on RTE especially, need to see it for what it is and put a stop to it regardless of who is attempting it.
    At present they are looking like kindergarten teachers who are letting the shrill child in the class outshout everyone else.


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    #911
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A criticism of Coveney's very noticeable tactic turns into a stick to beat SF with.
    We can see early on how this campaign is going to go. :)


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    #912
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    charlie14 wrote: »
    It does seem to be a FG tactic, but imho it is one that could end up very counterproductive.
    It might appeal to the converted, but to everyone else it can easily become just annoying.

    Political interviews should never be about allowing one party`s narrative to be bull horned over everyone else`s.


    Interviewers, on RTE especially, need to see it for what it is and put a stop to it regardless of who is attempting it.
    At present they are looking like kindergarten teachers who are letting the shrill child in the class outshout everyone else.

    It's a FG tactic so far in this election, but it is nothing new. Howlin tried it with Pat Kenny this morning, but didn't get very far against an experienced interviewer, who just brought it gently back on topic.


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    #913
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    blanch152 wrote: »
    It's a FG tactic so far in this election, but it is nothing new. Howlin tried it with Pat Kenny this morning, but didn't get very far against an experienced interviewer, who just brought it gently back on topic.


    If it is kept up then gently should not be a consideration.


    If you come into an interview and attempt to out shout everyone in the room then the interviewer should take strips of you leaving the listeners in no doubt as to the reason why.

    Do that once and it`s a tactic that will die fast.


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    #914
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    A criticism of Coveney's very noticeable tactic turns into a stick to beat SF with.
    We can see early on how this campaign is going to go. :)

    It’s usually the SF lads brandishing the sticks to beat someone with.


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    #915
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,660 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Coveney was actually a disgrace last night...marginally outdisgraced by Miriam's inability to do her job.

    I think it will be counter productive for FG if they keep it up. It does seem to be an instruction as Madigan did it repeatedly on The Week In Politics.

    I couldn't believe the performance of Coveney last night, it was shocking. I thought he was suppose to be the best FG have last night was a car crash. The worst was when he was nit picking over the age of the homeless woman that was found wandering around O'Connell street a few nights ago after being discharged from hospital. He wasn't concerned that someone could be discharged from hospital to wander the streets no matter the age but he was more concerned over whether she was 61 or 81. Shocking stuff.


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    #916
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Floppybits wrote: »
    I couldn't believe the performance of Coveney last night, it was shocking. I thought he was suppose to be the best FG have last night was a car crash. The worst was when he was nit picking over the age of the homeless woman that was found wandering around O'Connell street a few nights ago after being discharged from hospital. He wasn't concerned that someone could be discharged from hospital to wander the streets no matter the age but he was more concerned over whether she was 61 or 81. Shocking stuff.

    I agree, there was an obscenity to that particular part. It mattered not what her age was.

    The injuring of a homeless man in his tent yesterday is a perfect metaphor in a way. What they are doing is attempting to obscure the truth any which way they can. Keep it out of sight in the hope it goes away.


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    #917
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Asitis2019 wrote: »
    He is an asset to FF - he has a first class brain. He was right to move into one of the parties. You cannot influence policy from the ditch - or at least, you can't influence it to the same degree.

    MM needs to give him a very senior position. He worked at McKinsey, and if given the autonomy and resources, could do very well.

    I can understand why he left for Fianna fail but I just can't vote FF. Plus by moving from SDP he lost a lot of credibility. Would have been better to move from independent to FF. It was a sign of poor judgement to join the SDP but he should have stuck it out once he joined


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    #918
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    I can understand why he left for Fianna fail but I just can't vote FF. Plus by moving from SDP he lost a lot of credibility. Would have been better to move from independent to FF. It was a sign of poor judgement to join the SDP but he should have stuck it out once he joined

    You talking about Donnelly down in Wicklow? Sure he wanted to join FG but they already had two sitting TDs.


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    #919
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    How about instead of constantly bashing FG and resorting to self righteous anger the naysayers actually offer us what they see as viable alternatives?

    The reality is the likes of the problems with our health service and the housing crisis were there long before FG came to power and anyone who things that by voting in a whole new government these issues will disappear overnight is seriously fooling themselves.

    Just like they fooled themselves into believing Peter Casey is some kind messiah.


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    #920
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,577 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    It was a sign of poor judgement to join the SDP but he should have stuck it out once he joined

    Always found that an odd move for a technocratic type of guy. Kind of diluted their leftist profile as well...


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    #921
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    You talking about Donnelly down in Wicklow? Sure he wanted to join FG but they already had two sitting TDs.

    Donnelly seems to be doing a tour of all political persuasions. Independent - Social Democrat - Fianna Fail.


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    #922
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »

    The reality is the likes of the problems with our health service and the housing crisis were there long before FG came to power and anyone who things that by voting in a whole new government these issues will disappear overnight is seriously fooling themselves.
    Is that FG's defence of its record on housing and health? " It was like that when we got here".
    I would like to think a new government would actually tackle these two issues instead of sitting back and watch them get worse.


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    #923
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Is that FG's defence of its record on housing and health? " It was like that when we got here".
    I would like to think a new government would actually tackle these two issues instead of sitting back and watch them get worse.

    What evidence have you got that they are simply sitting there and watching?


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    #924
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    What evidence have you got that they are simply sitting there and watching?

    https://westernpeople.ie/2020/01/06/worst-ever-day-for-trolley-overcrowding-with-760-waiting-for-beds/

    One example.


    and health
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/ourview/homelessness-figures-rise-again-ideology-at-root-of-housing-crisis-954041.html


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    #925
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Coveney was actually a disgrace last night...marginally outdisgraced by Miriam's inability to do her job.

    I think it will be counter productive for FG if they keep it up. It does seem to be an instruction as Madigan did it repeatedly on The Week In Politics.

    I saw the interview and all he did was stand up for himself. Seeing as it was a 5 v 1 fight, being attacked from all sides, he was right to defend himself.

    Last time out Enda and Co. were much too meek. This time out it appears FG are going to fight fire with fire and call out others, like SF on their bull$hit, like Coveney did last night when SF was telling lies on national TV.


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    #926
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Floppybits wrote: »
    I couldn't believe the performance of Coveney last night, it was shocking. I thought he was suppose to be the best FG have last night was a car crash. The worst was when he was nit picking over the age of the homeless woman that was found wandering around O'Connell street a few nights ago after being discharged from hospital. He wasn't concerned that someone could be discharged from hospital to wander the streets no matter the age but he was more concerned over whether she was 61 or 81. Shocking stuff.

    He was simply parroting Leo who pretty much said exactly the same thing on radio 1 on Sunday.


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    #927
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Floppybits wrote: »
    He wasn't concerned that someone could be discharged from hospital to wander the streets no matter the age but he was more concerned over whether she was 61 or 81. Shocking stuff.

    Maybe because this didn't happen. Fake News Alert!!

    Lookup the actual up to date version of this 'story'. He was right to correct it as what was peddled was lies.


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    #928
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    I saw the interview and all he did was stand up for himself. Seeing as it was a 5 v 1 fight, being attacked from all sides, he was right to defend himself.

    Last time out Enda and Co. were much too meek. This time out it appears FG are going to fight fire with fire and call out others, like SF on their bull$hit, like Coveney did last night when SF was telling lies on national TV.

    He's fully entitled to answer his critics. But manners would be nice. It just comes across as more arrogance if FG are reading this.


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    #929
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    He's fully entitled to answer his critics. But manners would be nice. It just comes across as more arrogance if FG are reading this.

    Well to you, of course, it will come across like that, but you are never doing to vote for them anyway.

    What some people want is for a FG TD to be heckled pillar to post without saying a word in reply.


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    #930
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    markodaly wrote: »
    Maybe because this didn't happen. Fake News Alert!!

    Lookup the actual up to date version of this 'story'. He was right to correct it as what was peddled was lies.

    Apparently the age disparity makes this worthy of the 'Trumpism, fake news.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/81-year-old-dublin-homeless-4961643-Jan2020/


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    #931
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Apparently the age disparity makes this worthy of the 'Trumpism, fake news.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/81-year-old-dublin-homeless-4961643-Jan2020/

    The way its been portrayed that she was discharged from the hospital to be thrown out on the streets is also Fake News.
    You know this as well, but continue with lies.

    Tell me, does it feel good to lie about things?


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