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Compiling a list of FG poor performance

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  • Options
    #1052
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    markodaly wrote: »
    Jaysus, perhaps a little courtesy and manners, no need to be so rude.

    All I asked was who told the panel that it was 'illegal'.
    A simple name or a 'don't know' would have sufficed.

    And yes, I doubt the claim itself was true, because Germany, France, Holland just to name a few have similar plans in motion. So I guess whoever said it 'illegal' talking out of their ass.

    I didn't mean to come across as rude or discourteous (honestly) I was missing bits and pieces as my phone is connected to the same speaker via Bluetooth, and it went in and out due to customer calls.


    The gist of it was Mark McSharry (FF) was in possession of a letter he said came from the EU, and basically it confirmed that FG plans are illegal under EU law.

    Marcella acknowledged it was too, but said currently it was but laws can be changed, McSharry accused her of lying (missed what exactly that was about)

    Pat Kenny was seemingly in agreement that she was basically spoofing. I'll throw up a link to the podcast when it's put online.


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    #1053
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    I'd say we could add FG's failure to reform whistleblower law to the list. I suppose we could hardly expect the party that tried to bury Garda whistleblower Maurice McCabe to change that.especially after Francis Fitzgerald and shatter were taken out.


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    #1054
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    For Cork specific failures from FG I would say the fact they have not done any key infrastructure projects down here in the last 11 years,the event centre débâcle that they done the turning of the sod on four years ago.oh Dara Murphy the scumbag that's their main man down here and then the air pollution to top it all off. Apparently ours is now one of the worst in Europe https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Air-quality-in-Cork-city-currently-one-of-the-worst-in-Europe-6a20da63-6b82-4c24-bf8e-908042ed05ad-ds


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    #1055
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    smurgen wrote: »
    For Cork specific failures from FG I would say the fact they have not done any key infrastructure projects down here in the last 11 years,the event centre débâcle that they done the turning of the sod on four years ago.oh Dara Murphy the scumbag that's their main man down here and then the air pollution to top it all off. Apparently ours is now one of the worst in Europe https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Air-quality-in-Cork-city-currently-one-of-the-worst-in-Europe-6a20da63-6b82-4c24-bf8e-908042ed05ad-ds

    Eamon Ryan taking notes on this.


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    #1056
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    smurgen wrote: »
    I'd say we could add FG's failure to reform whistleblower law to the list. I suppose we could hardly expect the party that tried to bury Garda whistleblower Maurice McCabe to change that.especially after Francis Fitzgerald and shatter were taken out.

    Shatter was proven to have done nothing wrong?

    Same with Fitzgerald?

    Didn't Varadkar bring this issue to the forefront years ago when no-one else would listen?


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    #1057
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Shatter was proven to have done nothing wrong?

    Same with Fitzgerald?

    Didn't Varadkar bring this issue to the forefront years ago when no-one else would listen?

    If nothing was untoward then why did they both have to step down? Also didn't varadkar offer his full support and confidence in the Garda commissioner Nóirin O'Sullivan who ran the smear campaign and later had to step down? The one that tried to bury McCabe?


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    #1058
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Francis did nothing wrong?


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/tanaiste-under-fire-fitzgerald-humiliated-as-government-makes-fifth-u-turn-on-mccabe-463330.html


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    #1059
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    smurgen wrote: »
    If nothing was untoward then why did they both have to step down? Also didn't varadkar offer his full support and confidence in the Garda commissioner Nóirin O'Sullivan who ran the smear campaign and later had to step down? The one that tried to bury McCabe?

    There was nothing proven. They all stood down because they were woeful at their jobs and the treatment of McCabe under their watch. Also I believe Fitzgerald mislead Varadkar. Mislead is the PC term for porkies.
    Callinan was found to have smeared McCabe. I expect O'Sullivan was out donating cell phones to charity at the time.


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    #1060
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Shatter was proven to have done nothing wrong?

    Seems Shatter doesn`t think the same of FG.


    He tweeted today that FG had entirely lost its moral compass and sense of decency confirmed by Varadkar`s initial appalling response to the tragic tent incident.


    It didn`t get any better with later tweets.


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    #1061
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Seems Shatter doesn`t think the same of FG.


    He tweeted today that FG had entirely lost its moral compass and sense of decency confirmed by Varadkar`s initial appalling response to the tragic tent incident.

    Moral compass eh?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dont-you-know-who-i-am-what-shatter-said-to-garda-29300483.html
    A GARDA report filed on the incident in which Alan Shatter was stopped at a drink-drive checkpoint has gone missing, the Irish Independent has learnt.
    An informed source has revealed the garda who stopped Mr Shatter felt he was not fully co-operative.

    She was also asked by the then Fine Gael frontbench spokesman: "Don't you know who I am?"
    New evidence has emerged that apparently shows Mr Shatter, contrary to his claim, did not say he was asthmatic and was therefore unable to complete the breath test.
    * Intimated to the garda that it was unconstitutional to stop him as he was coming from the Dail and said: "Check your law book."

    * Appeared not to make a sufficient effort to complete the breath test.

    * Drove off without being waved on by the officer.

    Compare all of the above to Claire Daly....
    I was breathalysed but the equipment didn’t register a reading. I was arrested and handcuffed on the side of the road. I objected to being handcuffed and stated that I would willingly go to the Garda station. I was told by the arresting Garda that this was ‘procedure’.

    I was brought in a patrol car to the Kilmainham Garda Station – within 300 metres distance. At one point I was placed in a cell on my own. A doctor was called and I provided a urine sample. When I was released a female Garda told me to ‘come back when you are sober’.

    I have received the official result of the test on the urine sample provided and the result is 45 milligrammes per 100 millilitres of urine, which is 33% below the allowable limit – 67 milligrammes

    FG have been running by their own rules for far too long.


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    #1062
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Moral compass eh?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dont-you-know-who-i-am-what-shatter-said-to-garda-29300483.html


    The words pot and black did cross my mind when I read that tweet. :)


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    #1063
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Moral compass eh?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dont-you-know-who-i-am-what-shatter-said-to-garda-29300483.html






    Compare all of the above to Claire Daly....



    FG have been running by their own rules for far too long.

    Do as I say not as I do should be the slogan of the party. The welfare cheats cheat us all campaign against the backdrop of their own TD's bogus expense claims also screams hypocrites.


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    #1064
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Shatter was proven to have done nothing wrong?

    Same with Fitzgerald?

    Didn't Varadkar bring this issue to the forefront years ago when no-one else would listen?

    Just because you keep repeating something over and over and over (and over again) doesn't make it true.

    You've said it before, and were reminded before. She misled the Dail, her party and her Taoiseach.

    If she did nothing wrong she'd still be there.

    Jesus.


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    #1065
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Just because you keep repeating something over and over and over (and over again) doesn't make it true.

    You've said it before, and were reminded before. She misled the Dail, her party and her Taoiseach.

    If she did nothing wrong she'd still be there.

    Jesus.

    Not sure why we are talking about Francis Fitzgerald but she was cleared by the Collins Report and Disclosures Tribunal.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1011/1002474-disclosures-tribunal-frances-fitzgerald/
    The Disclosures Tribunal's third interim report states that by the time the inquiry came to hear matters in relation to the issue of Sergeant Maurice McCabe's treatment at the O'Higgins Commission, former tánaiste Frances Fitzgerald had "selflessly" decided to resign in the national interest.
    ..
    .
    It outlines that Ms Fitzgerald and her department rightly did not attempt to direct the commissioner as to how she should approach the O'Higgins Commission.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/stephen-collins-how-the-truth-became-irrelevant-to-frances-fitzgerald-s-fate-1.3666671
    The Charleton tribunal has demolished the claims made by the Opposition and elements of the media that effectively drove former tánaiste Frances Fitzgerald from office almost a year ago, but there is not the slightest sign of self-analysis, never mind remorse, on the part of those who were most vociferous in demanding her head.

    The leading Opposition politicians who did most to damage Fitzgerald were Mary Lou McDonald of Sinn Féin, Jim O’Callaghan of Fianna Fáil, and Labour’s Alan Kelly.

    It is pointless to expect apologies from them, but the episode should prompt at least some examination of conscience in the media about how accusations made for political gain can so easily be recycled as statements of fact.


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    #1066
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Not sure why we are talking about Francis Fitzgerald but she was cleared by the Collins Report and Disclosures Tribunal.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1011/1002474-disclosures-tribunal-frances-fitzgerald/



    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/stephen-collins-how-the-truth-became-irrelevant-to-frances-fitzgerald-s-fate-1.3666671

    You do realise that is an 'opinion' piece?

    Fitzgerald had to go because she mislead the Dáil. And as she apparently misled Varadkar, he accepted her resignation.


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    #1067
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    markodaly wrote: »
    Not sure why we are talking about Francis Fitzgerald but she was cleared by the Collins Report and Disclosures Tribunal.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1011/1002474-disclosures-tribunal-frances-fitzgerald/



    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/stephen-collins-how-the-truth-became-irrelevant-to-frances-fitzgerald-s-fate-1.3666671

    You're quoting Stephen Collins? lol sure you may as well quote the FG press officer both share the same agenda.
    She was responsible for Leo misleading the Dail twice.
    As for why we are talking about her no idea but Jinglejangle brought her name up so naturally people respond.


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    #1068
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    smurgen wrote: »
    Do as I say not as I do should be the slogan of the party. The welfare cheats cheat us all campaign against the backdrop of their own TD's bogus expense claims also screams hypocrites.

    That's gas actually.
    They have people riled up because people on welfare are, well on welfare. Dara Murphy ffs..
    Hypocrisy and them trying to pontificate while making dodgy claims and getting clocked in but not turning up on the taxpayers coin. Gas.


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    #1069
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You do realise that is an 'opinion' piece?

    Fitzgerald had to go because she mislead the Dáil. And as she apparently misled Varadkar, he accepted her resignation.

    One link is an opinion piece the other isn't.

    It's a fact that the Collins Report and the Disclosures Tribunal cleared her.
    The rest of it is politics, pure and simple.


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    #1070
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    One link is an opinion piece the other isn't.

    It's a fact that the Collins Report and the Disclosures Tribunal cleared her.
    The rest of it is politics, pure and simple.

    It didn't clear her of misleading the Dáil. The REASON she resigned and the reason Varadkar accepted her resignation.
    It did clear her of other accusations made in the Dáil.


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    #1071
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Marcella Corcoran Kennedy currently on Newstalk getting torn a new one ref their plans to ban the sale of diesel and petrol motors.

    It's illegal under EU Law apparently.

    She's been accused of being a liar, and it ain't going down too well.

    It’s a half-truth at best that it would be illegal under EU law, and a downright lie at worst.

    Technically, any law that allows for State intervention in the market is illegal under EU competition law. Thus, any plan to keep the rural broadband scheme in public ownership is illegal, ditto retaining Bord Na Mona in public ownership, even keeping Irish Water as a state company could be illegal under competition law.

    However, there are many exceptions to EU competition law, health and education being two obvious ones, not to mention state security. Then there are others where you can apply to the EU for exemption. I am not sure whether climate change measures fall under a generic exemption (which would make the statement it is illegal a lie) or whether a specific application would be needed (which would make it a half-truth) as you wouldn’t apply until you were ready to implement the measure (sometime around 2027).

    However, and on this I have no doubt, it will not be illegal to put such a ban in place.


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    #1072
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    It didn't clear her of misleading the Dáil. The REASON she resigned and the reason Varadkar accepted her resignation.
    It did clear her of other accusations made in the Dáil.

    You clearly didn't read either piece. She was made into a political football, which FF was determined to get their pint of blood or risk an election before Christmas.
    Resigning doesn't mean one is automatically guilty, and as the reports that came out afterwards cleared her of wrongdoing.

    Also, the information she was given by the DOJ was misleading, as she didn't know what she was telling at the time was misleading as stated clearly by the Collins report. The DOJ came out terribly here and hence reform and even splitting the department was thus advocated.


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    #1073
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    You clearly didn't read either piece. She was made into a political football, which FF was determined to get their pint of blood or risk an election before Christmas.
    Resigning doesn't mean one is automatically guilty, and as the reports that came out afterwards cleared her of wrongdoing.

    Also, the information she was given by the DOJ was misleading, as she didn't know what she was telling at the time was misleading as stated clearly by the Collins report. The DOJ came out terribly here and hence reform and even splitting the department was thus advocated.

    Did she or did she not mislead the Dáil, twice? If the tribunal vindicated her of that I will give way on this.
    At the time, it was shown that she misled the Dáil and her own leader.
    "No finding of Mr Justice Charleton disturbs that fact and every Government Minister is accountable to Dáil Éireann."


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    #1074
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Did she or did she not mislead the Dáil, twice? If the tribunal vindicated her of that I will give way on this.
    At the time, it was shown that she misled the Dáil and her own leader.

    Intentionally no?

    She was given false information by the DOJ. This is stated as fact and her culpability in this was cleared by the disclosures tribunal. This is a fact. You can accept it or not. FF seems to have accepted that position.
    Mr O'Callaghan has defended his actions in the lead-up to the resignation of Ms Fitgzerald.

    Speaking on RTɒs Morning Ireland, he said that there were "political reasons" why Fianna Fáil, along with most of the Dáil, lost confidence in Ms Fitzgerald.

    He said that while he accepted the findings were a vindication of Ms Fitzgerald, their position in November 2017 was a political judgement

    See, this is a classic case of the typical nonsensical rubbish being spouted. Its all point-scoring, nothing substantive, nothing policy-driven.
    We could have an interesting debate on the state of the Civil Service and needed reforms, but all that is being done here is keyboard warrior politics.
    Then people wonder why we always vote for FF/FG. It is self-evident right here, because the 'alternatives' are useless and are interested in point scoring.

    So, the choice can be yours, continue inane point-scoring over semantics or come to the table and have an adult debate about it.

    Perhaps we can start here?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/senior-civil-servant-dysfunction-that-led-to-frances-fitzgerald-resignation-could-have-arisen-in-any-department-962222.html
    The dysfunction in the Department of Justice which led to the resignation of former Tánaiste Frances Fitzgerald “could have arisen in any department”, according to its most senior civil servant.

    Secretary-General of Justice Aidan O’Driscoll told the Oireachtas committee relating to his department that “as a secretary-general of two departments I can say this could have happened in any department”.
    ..

    ..
    “We can go on having those individual incidences and fixing the particular leak in the system, or we can do something much more radical, which is looking at how departments should be structured for the 21st century,” he added.


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    #1075
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Did anyone see the video for GE 2020 FG put on twitter? My god this is brutal. What were they thinking. This will go viral it's so poor . https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1218267527681318914?s=19


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    #1076
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,567 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    smurgen wrote:
    Did anyone see the video for GE 2020 FG put on twitter? My god this is brutal. What were they thinking. This will go viral it's so poor .


    Ah they ll still get a shed load of votes, I wouldn't overly worry about it


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    #1077
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Ah they ll still get a shed load of votes, I wouldn't overly worry about it

    So juvenile. It actually makes me nearly want to vote FF in protest.


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    #1078
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,567 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    smurgen wrote: »
    So juvenile. It actually makes me nearly want to vote FF in protest.

    yea it is alright, it probably will backfire on them on the pr front, but they ll still get many votes


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    #1079
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    smurgen wrote: »
    Did anyone see the video for GE 2020 FG put on twitter? My god this is brutal. What were they thinking. This will go viral it's so poor . https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1218267527681318914?s=19

    Has it been removed?


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    #1080
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Intentionally no?

    She was given false information by the DOJ. This is stated as fact and her culpability in this was cleared by the disclosures tribunal. This is a fact. You can accept it or not. FF seems to have accepted that position.



    See, this is a classic case of the typical nonsensical rubbish being spouted. Its all point-scoring, nothing substantive, nothing policy-driven.
    We could have an interesting debate on the state of the Civil Service and needed reforms, but all that is being done here is keyboard warrior politics.
    Then people wonder why we always vote for FF/FG. It is self-evident right here, because the 'alternatives' are useless and are interested in point scoring.

    So, the choice can be yours, continue inane point-scoring over semantics or come to the table and have an adult debate about it.

    Perhaps we can start here?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/senior-civil-servant-dysfunction-that-led-to-frances-fitzgerald-resignation-could-have-arisen-in-any-department-962222.html

    Again, did she or didn't she mislead the Dáil?

    Yes she did. Why she did it has nothing to do with it. At the time, the only proper thing was her removal from the Dáil (which is what should have happened) by her leader or her own resignation.


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    #1081
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Again, did she or didn't she mislead the Dáil?

    Yes she did. Why she did it has nothing to do with it. At the time, the only proper thing was her removal from the Dáil (which is what should have happened) by her leader or her own resignation.

    Of course she mislead the Dail.

    People are so naive.


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