Compiling a list of FG poor performance

Idbatterim · 06-12-2019 2:30pm

Given the numbers in the workforce, given the numbers on social welfare, is it any surprise that in our Welfare State, there isn't enough money left over to spend on health and education?

but blanch, as we know, firing money at the likes of the HSE isnt the solution here, its a total black hole... I read how MM massively increased the health spending, for virtually no improvement in it...

the appalling value for money and gravy train for those in the civil service and local and national government, is a huge part of the problem...

The budget before this one just gone, FF as usual wanted to buy off the pensioners, but werent insisting on the unemployed getting the E5 increase. That was FG, obviously scared of being branded the far right "every little hurts" "a recovery for all" ... Ill look for that link later...

Wanderer78 · 06-12-2019 3:47pm

blanch152 wrote:

Given the numbers in the workforce, given the numbers on social welfare, is it any surprise that in our Welfare State, there isn't enough money left over to spend on health and education?

Again, we re not a welfare state, we are a typical free market, open economy, of which there are many methods of money and wealth creation, the most common method of money creation being through credit creation, hence our level of debts

blanch152 · 06-12-2019 3:54pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Again, we re not a welfare state, we are a typical free market, open economy, of which there are many methods of money and wealth creation, the most common method of money creation being through credit creation, hence our level of debts

Yes, we are a typical free market, open economy, but the taxation of that economy is used to fund an above average welfare state. Rates of welfare in Ireland are higher than anywhere else, particularly for those in long-term receipt of state payments.

James Brown · 06-12-2019 4:01pm

We have the welfare state we need to keep private profits high.
If we'd lower or less welfare landlords would need lower rents or get a job. Grocery stores, restaurants and shopping centers would see a drop in sales. Small and large business would lose or get lower grants. We'd need look at higher taxation to pick up the short fall.
The FF/FG state cannot function without welfare to pick up the slack and there's a lot of slack.
Welfare isn't the way it is for Margret cash or people who wouldn't vote FG anyway, as we're often told, it's to keep the big money men in money.
The vulture funds would leave if they had to pay higher tax or the LA/state was not giving them the business of subsidised or 'social' tenants.
Many new businesses would struggle and what would the sick and elderly do?
Trying to always look to Margret Cash as an example of welfare is dishonest and false and hides the true picture and need for welfare in this FF/FG dynamic of 'the way we do business'.

Ready4Boarding · 06-12-2019 4:01pm

NCH
Health crisis
Housing crisis

Each of those is caused substantially by structural problems. I don’t believe any other party would be more successful. And the fact that opposition parties often minimise the challenges faced leads me to think they may even be worse.

blanch152 · 06-12-2019 4:09pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We have the welfare state we need to keep private profits high.
If we'd lower or less welfare landlords would need lower rents or get a job. Grocery stores, restaurants and shopping centers would see a drop in sales. Small and large business would lose or get lower grants. We'd need look at higher taxation to pick up the short fall.
The FF/FG state cannot function without welfare to pick up the slack and there's a lot of slack.
Welfare isn't the way it is for Margret cash or people who wouldn't vote FG anyway, as we're often told, it's to keep the big money men in money.
The vulture funds would leave if they had to pay higher tax or the LA/state was not giving them the business of subsidised or 'social' tenants.
Many new businesses would struggle and what would the sick and elderly do?
Trying to always look to Margret Cash as an example of welfare is dishonest and false and hides the true picture and need for welfare in this FF/FG dynamic of 'the way we do business'.

I love your economic posts.

So, according to the Matt Barrett theory of economics, if we increase taxation so that we can increase welfare, the whole country will be better off. Here's an idea, let's increase taxation on profits to 100%, as profit is a bad word, and let's give all the money to the people on the dole so that they can spend it in the economy to generate profit for the businessmen, so that.....................oops, there are no businessmen left, because they have been taxed out of existence to pay for the social welfare...........................oops, we can't pay this week's social welfare because there is no money left................oops, last one out of the country, shut the door.

Boggles · 06-12-2019 4:15pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, actually, it is exactly the sort of thing that happens in a Welfare State.

Which actual welfare state has over 50,000 children waiting a year or more for pretty basic health assistance?

I'll give you a hint, there isn't any.

blanch152 · 06-12-2019 4:17pm

Boggles wrote: »

Which actual welfare state has over 50,000 children waiting a year or more for pretty basic health assistance?

Yes, if you are spending €2 billion plus a year on child benefit, which goes on foreign holidays and car loan repayments at one end of the spectrum, and is injected, smoked or drank at the other, wouldn't you be better off diverting that €2 billion into health assistance for children (or building a new children's hospital with one year's worth of child benefit)?

Boggles · 06-12-2019 4:22pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, if you are spending €2 billion plus a year on child benefit, which goes on foreign holidays and car loan repayments at one end of the spectrum, and is injected, smoked or drank at the other, wouldn't you be better off diverting that €2 billion into health assistance for children (or building a new children's hospital with one year's worth of child benefit)?

You'd be better offer providing child care services like they do in Welfare States.

You know like getting your child's spine fixed before they hit puberty.

Geuze · 06-12-2019 4:46pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

We are actually top of the world at something :rolleyes:

For 11 years in a row, we have led the EU with the number of people living in VLWI households.

VLWI = very low work intensity

So we lead the EU in economic inactivity.

Geuze · 06-12-2019 4:48pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Again, we re not a welfare state, we are a typical free market, open economy,

Yes, we are a free market, open economy, yes.

With about 45% of the population on welfare.

That figure was close to 50% ion recent years.

Is that not a welfare state?

Geuze · 06-12-2019 4:49pm

Geuze wrote: »

For 11 years in a row, we have led the EU with the number of people living in VLWI households.

VLWI = very low work intensity

So we lead the EU in economic inactivity.

A genuine welfare state would not accept so many able-bodied adults being on welfare.

Boggles · 06-12-2019 4:50pm

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, we are a free market, open economy, yes.

With about 45% of the population on welfare.

That figure was close to 50% ion recent years.

Is that not a welfare state?

No, A Welfare State would have higher than average work participation rates.

Stop thinking of Welfare in terms of just payments.

Functioning services are more important in an actual Welfare State.

We would need to double maybe treble or social protection budget just for starters to be even considered a Welfare State.

Wanderer78 · 06-12-2019 5:51pm

Geuze wrote:

A genuine welfare state would not accept so many able-bodied adults being on welfare.

What is the criteria that considers these receipents to be able-bodied?

James Brown · 06-12-2019 5:52pm

Geuze wrote: »

A genuine welfare state would not accept so many able-bodied adults being on welfare.

Do we? Have you stats for this? Isn't this against the criteria for collecting welfare? seriously can you back this up? I'd like to know. If so we can contact our representatives on this recorded fraud.

blanch152 · 06-12-2019 5:58pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Do we? Have you stats for this? Isn't this against the criteria for collecting welfare? seriously can you back this up? I'd like to know. If so we can contact our representatives on this recorded fraud.

Are you saying that all of the recipients of single parent payment are not able-bodied?

That is a dreadful slur on them, representing a group of mostly women as not being able-bodied.

James Brown · 06-12-2019 6:05pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Are you saying that all of the recipients of single parent payment are not able-bodied?

That is a dreadful slur on them, representing a group of mostly women as not being able-bodied.

If the poster was only speaking of single mothers who stay home, he should have specified. I take it so, the numbers are low and genuine clams, I'm fine with that. It should accept such able bodied people. That's how FG/FF set it up. Also he must not understand the word 'genuine', if you are correct.

Don't be childish Blanch. Adding f*** all as per.

charlie14 · 06-12-2019 6:16pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

31 posts before Irish water is mentioned. It just shows what short memories we have.

Evoting machines made it here first and they equate to 5% of the money squandered on Irish Water.

charlie14 · 06-12-2019 6:35pm

3 Billion of State revenue for national broadband where the one and only bidder gets to own the network.

11 Million to KPMG for the advice that after the State investing 3 Billion, the only bidder will own the network

Wanderer78 · 06-12-2019 7:13pm

charlie14 wrote:

11 Million to KPMG for the advice that after the State investing 3 Billion, the only bidder will own the network

Yup, fairly normal output from a free market, open economy, monopolisation

charlie14 · 06-12-2019 7:23pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Yup, fairly normal output from a free market, open economy, monopolisation

There was no monopoly on advice though. The governments own civil service mandarins advised against it, and their advice came for free.

Beasty · 06-12-2019 7:24pm

blanch152 and Matt Barrett - do not post in this thread again

and if OI see any more of this tit for tat crap from the pair of you I'll remove posting privileges

suicide_circus · 06-12-2019 7:28pm

Boggles wrote: »

No, A Welfare State would have higher than average work participation rates.

Stop thinking of Welfare in terms of just payments.

Functioning services are more important in an actual Welfare State.

We would need to double maybe treble or social protection budget just for starters to be even considered a Welfare State.

i provided a dictionary definition of "welfare state" earlier. what definition are you using?

Boggles · 06-12-2019 7:43pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

i provided a dictionary definition of "welfare state" earlier. what definition are you using?

:pac:

Okay.

suicide_circus · 06-12-2019 7:44pm

lost for words are you? its impossible to discuss these things if you wont define terms

Boggles · 06-12-2019 7:53pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

lost for words are you? its impossible to discuss these things if you wont define terms

Sure there would be nothing to discuss if we condensed everything down to Oxfords literal interpretation.

But I will say it again, Ireland is not a Welfare State.

It's not a badly managed welfare state or what ever you called it, because there is no such thing

A Welfare state is a tremendous thing, we should all wish Ireland was one.

Norway is a Welfare State if you need an example.

suicide_circus · 06-12-2019 7:57pm

ok so. better start exploiting those off shore oil and gas reserves pronto!

06-12-2019 7:59pm

I blame FG for being a banner around which disgruntled, overactive underachievers can blame all their varied and voluminous inadequacies.

Apart from being Keyboard warriors what actions have complainants taken to improve the situation? Apart from venting their spleens on boards.ie and posting High-larious memes on the likes of Facebook.

Boggles · 06-12-2019 8:09pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

ok so. better start exploiting those off shore oil and gas reserves pronto!

Or you know fix the system that lets 50,000 + children fester on a waiting list for a year or more for basic health care.

Or lets 10 times that amount rot on a list getting progressively worse waiting to meet a doctor that actually knows what they are doing.

No need to get Texaco in.

Jinglejangle69 · 06-12-2019 8:12pm

Boggles wrote: »

Or you know fix the system that lets 50,000 + children fester on a waiting list for a year or more for basic health care.

Or lets 10 times that amount rot on a list getting progressively worse waiting to meet a doctor that actually knows what they are doing.

No need to get Texaco in.

Read today 20,000 appointments for children didn’t turn up last year and something like 200,000 people in the last 3 years didn’t turn up for appointments.

People need to let hospitals know so it can speed up the lists.

Compiling a list of FG poor performance

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