Compiling a list of FG poor performance

171170

smurgen wrote: »

Post is nothing more than an attempt to wind up.fg must be worried!

FG are worried. Very worried! And rightly so.

And so are FF, Labour and SF! The Soc Dems should be worried too after their poor showings in the by-elections

The only ones who aren't worried are the Greens! And arguably that's because at a time when everyone is unhappy about all kinds of stuff, they're a safe repository for protest votes.

It's pretty obvious that the Greens will decide which party will govern after the next election.

McMurphy

various artistes wrote: »

I'll try again.

You can try from now until Ireland set off on their first manned mission to Mars if you like.

It won't change the fact that your assertion that the greens and shinners bombed in the bye elections was scutter.

Eric Cartman

171170 wrote: »

FG are worried. Very worried! And rightly so.

And so are FF, Labour and SF! The Soc Dems should be worried too after their poor showings in the by-elections

The only ones who aren't worried are the Greens! And arguably that's because at a time when everyone is unhappy about all kinds of stuff, they're a safe repository for protest votes.

It's pretty obvious that the Greens will decide which party will govern after the next election.

And we’ll all pay a hefty price in taxes and freedom for that.

When you have candidates like saoirse watermellon mchugh (green on the outside, red on the inside) we all stand to suffer not benefit

Loafing Oaf

171170 wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that the Greens will decide which party will govern after the next election.

I wouldn't say it's 'obvious' yet. IMO it's far from certain that either FF or FG + Greens, Labour etc. will have the numbers to form a government. I think it's still more likely than not that the next government will be another 'arrangement' of some form between FF and FG.

charlie14

various artistes wrote: »

In one constituency they narrowly scraped past a mentally ill conspiracy theorist. A constituency that in the 2016 election returned two left wing candidates, Clare Daly Ind and Louise O'Reilly of SF. The Greens are an anomaly, boosted by upper class types entrhalled by an aggressive child.

Most likely she hoovered up a great deal of those who would normally vote SF.

If I was a SF member, I'd be worried. And it says a lot about their voter base.

Whether they are an anomaly or not the Greens would appear to appeal more to the voters of the center right than than of the left.


Their two T.D.`s, Ryan and Martin were elected in 2016 to represent Dublin Rathdown and Dublin Bay West.
O`Brien`s by election result in Dublin Fingal would appear to suggest the same.


If you are correct about them boosted by upper class types, (and from those 3 results I would tend to agree), then they will pose problems for both FF and FG in the upcoming G.E. but if they are appealing to that upper class type you mention, then moreso to FG I believe.
They may not directly take seats off FG, but they could cause enough damage to prevent them winning seats.

charlie14

Eric Cartman wrote: »

And we’ll all pay a hefty price in taxes and freedom for that.

When you have candidates like saoirse watermellon mchugh (green on the outside, red on the inside) we all stand to suffer not benefit

Their answer to everything is far as I can see is raise taxes, but that is something we may have to get used to.



Saoirse McHugh wasn`t just a Green party candidate, she was politically green and yet she came close to winning a seat in the European Election in the Midlands North-West.

A predominately rural constituency where you would no more expect voters to vote green in those numbers than turkeys to vote for Christmas.

various artistes

smurgen wrote: »

Post is nothing more than an attempt to wind up.fg must be worried!

Earlier I made a 15 point post about how FG were unfit for office.

If I'm a FG social media shill I'm in deep, deep cover.

FG are, relatively, grand if you are

a- a homeowner with no intention to buy

b- childless, as you have no concerns about property/ rental affordability for those under circa 35

c- driving a car so many years unblemished that even the recent hikes have been relatively minimal

d- a landlord

e- long term voluntarily unemployed and living in a long ago granted council house, as you can bank on an annual fiver a week increase

f- a non drinker

g- retired, as anyone working for a state body must surely be worried about it being gutted and sold to the cheapest operator (CIE, DB, An Post etc)


For literally everyone outside of the above, they are a waste of space. As someone once said, Leo would privatise his mother if he got the chance. A servile ineffectual aloof con artist of the highest order.

And yet, there's barely anyone better.

various artistes

charlie14 wrote: »

Whether they are an anomaly or not the Greens would appear to appeal more to the voters of the center right than than of the left.


Their two T.D.`s, Ryan and Martin were elected in 2016 to represent Dublin Rathdown and Dublin Bay West.
O`Brien`s by election result in Dublin Fingal would appear to suggest the same.


If you are correct about them boosted by upper class types, (and from those 3 results I would tend to agree), then they will pose problems for both FF and FG in the upcoming G.E. but if they are appealing to that upper class type you mention, then moreso to FG I believe.
They may not directly take seats off FG, but they could cause enough damage to prevent them winning seats.

Agreed. The Greens are for upper class folk who like to think they care, but know enough about maths to avoid the PBP.

various artistes

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

You can try from now until Ireland set off on their first manned mission to Mars if you like.

It won't change the fact that your assertion that the greens and shinners bombed in the bye elections was scutter.

Would you agree that the local elections, the European elections, the presidential election and the recent by election do, aside from the odd anomaly such as Mark Ward's election, indicate a downward trajectory for SF's popularity with voters?

It's funny you would disagree seeing as local SF councillors in my area have conceded work needs to be done on their social media accounts. Even Matt Carthy put out a statement about Castleblaney (or was it Carrickmacross) residents concerns over non nationals and crime in the town that somewhat agreed some issues need to be settled- 2 years ago the statement would have focused on abhorrent racism and prejudice and the like and given zero attention to any such concerns. SF are worried they have went too far left and away from the people they rely on. Labour did the same in the UK, albeit more neo liberal than left pre Corbyn, and have become inelectable and remain so today.

Eric Cartman

various artistes wrote: »

Agreed. The Greens are for upper class folk who like to think they care, but know enough about maths to avoid the PBP.

This is exactly it, the middle class guilt party

charlie14

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This is exactly it, the middle class guilt party

And predominantly where Fine Gael votes come from.
That does not mean they will necessarily take seats off Fine Gael directly in many instances, but the seat result would be the same with them weakening the Fine Gael vote with others taking those seats.

charlie14

various artistes wrote: »

Agreed. The Greens are for upper class folk who like to think they care, but know enough about maths to avoid the PBP.

In which case it would make little difference.

It would quite possibly mean by weakening the Fine Gael vote, while perhaps not taking Fine Gael seats themselves, others would benefit.

171170

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's 'obvious' yet. IMO it's far from certain that either FF or FG + Greens, Labour etc. will have the numbers to form a government. I think it's still more likely than not that the next government will be another 'arrangement' of some form between FF and FG.

That's a fair point.

My impression is that if Martin asked his fellow FF TDs to support another FG-led government, he'd be toast. But it is conceivable that Vlad (or Coveney if Vlad gets booted out) could persuade a battered FG to support a FF administration.

171170

Eric Cartman wrote: »

And we’ll all pay a hefty price in taxes and freedom for that.

When you have candidates like saoirse watermellon mchugh (green on the outside, red on the inside) we all stand to suffer not benefit

Happily, Watermelon hasn't a hope of being elected in Mayo. Mind you, if the Greens do get into some sort of powersharing arrangement, I can see Ryan putting her in the Senate.

Loafing Oaf

171170 wrote: »

That's a fair point.

My impression is that if Martin asked his fellow FF TDs to support another FG-led government, he'd be toast.

IF FF are not the largest party after the next election, I predict Martin will vacate the leadership within a matter of hours. The issue then becomes whether his successor would be prepared to reopen the question of coalition with Sinn Fein...

charlie14

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

IF FF are not the largest party after the next election, I predict Martin will vacate the leadership within a matter of hours. The issue then becomes whether his successor would be prepared to reopen the question of coalition with Sinn Fein...

I could actually see FG doing the same if they are not the largest.

There is a bit of history there according to Trevor Sargent.


Sargent, then leader of the Green Party said in 2009 that in the run up to the 2007 General Election, Enda Kenny, then leader of Fine Gae, approached him to, as Sargent put it "would you ask your sister would she go out with me" by asking him would he approach Sinn Fein to see if they were interested in forming a FG/SF/Green party government after the election.

Sargent stated this in a newspaper article in 2009 and repeated it on the RTE news.

Loafing Oaf

charlie14 wrote: »

I could actually see FG doing the same if they are not the largest.

There is a bit of history there according to Trevor Sargent.


Sargent, then leader of the Green Party said in 2009 that in the run up to the 2011 General Election, Enda Kenny, then leader of Fine Gae, approached him to, as Sargent put it "would you ask your sister would she go out with me" by asking him would he approach Sinn Fein to see if they were interested in forming a FG/SF/Green party government after the election.

Sargent stated this in a newspaper article in 2009 and repeated it on the RTE news.

Varadkar has already signalled his willingness to support a minority FF government if FF are the largest party
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-could-support-fianna-f%C3%A1il-led-government-says-varadkar-1.4016969


I'm sure for the vast majority of FG grassroots, such an arrangement would be infinitely preferable to any sort of deal with SF.

charlie14

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Varadkar has already signalled his willingness to support a minority FF government if FF are the largest party
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-could-support-fianna-f%C3%A1il-led-government-says-varadkar-1.4016969


I'm sure for the vast majority of FG grassroots, such an arrangement would be infinitely preferable to any sort of deal with SF.

I know he did, but if it was a choice between possibility forming a government with SF and remaining Taoiseach or supporting a FF government with Martin as Taoiseach how Varadkar would wish to go.


Politics can make for strange bedfellows when the reins of power are up for grabs.
Who would have thought prior to 1989 the PD would go into government with FF with Haughey as Taoiseach

Loafing Oaf

charlie14 wrote: »

I know he did, but if it was a choice between possibility forming a government with SF and remaining Taoiseach or supporting a FF government with Martin as Taoiseach how Varadkar would wish to go.


Politics can make for strange bedfellows when the reins of power are up for grabs.
Who would have thought prior to 1989 the PD would go into government with FF with Haughey as Taoiseach

Martin had the same choice in 2016 and (apparently) didn't hesitate for a second, even though it left a distinct possibility that he would never be taoiseach. Varadkar has already reached the top and doesn't give me the impression that he would run over hot coals for another few years in the job.

If circumstances ultimately dictate that SF need to be involved in forming the government, I think it's far more likely for all sorts of historical and cultural reasons that FF rather than FG will be the party grasping that nettle.

The Rape of Lucretia

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Varadkar has already signalled his willingness to support a minority FF government if FF are the largest party
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-could-support-fianna-f%C3%A1il-led-government-says-varadkar-1.4016969


I'm sure for the vast majority of FG grassroots, such an arrangement would be infinitely preferable to any sort of deal with SF.

I think a various permutations of FF/FG coalitions, sharing, or minority supporting arrangements are to be the future of govt here for many years.

Which will be a great endorsement of our democracy, as its what Ireland has been voting for for many decades. Politically they are identical, with only the now irrelevant and obsolete origins stories of each, the distinction. The both accurately reflect and represent very accurately the political and governing aspirations of the great majority of the population.

Fortunately, there is still a significant majority that is able to vote beyond the simplistic thinking of many of the posts in the likes of this thread, and do not have a knee jerk reaction to punish whoever is in power, or focus on the peripheral trivia of individual members of both parties. The focus is on FG, since they are in power. Previously the same voters intended to consign FF to history, in irrational revenge for no continuing the 2007 party.

The next election will return, in some form, the same general political flavour of government. And so it should - any change would indicate a malfunctioning democracy.

SafeSurfer

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Martin had the same choice in 2016 and (apparently) didn't hesitate for a second, even though it left a distinct possibility that he would never be taoiseach. Varadkar has already reached the top and doesn't give me the impression that he would run over hot coals for another few years in the job.

If circumstances ultimately dictate that SF need to be involved in forming the government, I think it's far more likely for all sorts of historical and cultural reasons that FF rather than FG will be the party grasping that nettle.

I think FF would be the least likely party to coalesce with SF for the simple fact that they are probably the most eager of all parties to differentiate themselves from each other. If FF and FG can’t bring themselves to form a coalition, FF and SF definitely won’t. We most remember all the aforementioned parties have the same origins.

charlie14

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Martin had the same choice in 2016 and (apparently) didn't hesitate for a second, even though it left a distinct possibility that he would never be taoiseach. Varadkar has already reached the top and doesn't give me the impression that he would run over hot coals for another few years in the job.

If circumstances ultimately dictate that SF need to be involved in forming the government, I think it's far more likely for all sorts of historical and cultural reasons that FF rather than FG will be the party grasping that nettle.

I would be of the same opinion as SafeSurfer for the same reason.



AS you say Martin apparently didn`t give any consideration to joining with SF in 2016, and there was no real pressure within FF for him to do so.
There was no great love between the two parties then and after SF being constantly on their case over the confidence and supply agreement, less since.
If there was to be an agreement between either of FG or FF with SF, if the numbers stack up for both, then my money would be on a FG/SF deal.

Pronto63

Snow Garden wrote: »

Fine Gael are the party of waste, corruption and fraud. And I voted for them for nearly 20 years!
.

Me too but I couldn't cope with FF getting back into power.

There is no body that I can vote for!

Who can we vote for?

The Rape of Lucretia

Pronto63 wrote: »

Who can we vote for?

FF and FG.
You can vote for them - if you overlook the distractions of the superficial, and recognise they are the best option, with the most capable people, are most representative of the greatest majority of Irish people, are most likely to provide a coherent government with minimal or no involvement of rag tag bands of independent opportunitsts, cranks, and terrorists in search of new jobs.

This type of stuff :

Idbatterim wrote: »

Dara Murphy
Maria Bailey
NCH
NBP
health crisis
housing crisis

is essentially nonsense, and if considered as relevant to who to vote for, indicates a lack of reason.
FF and FG are the best game in town for the majority of Irish people.

Snow Garden

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

FF and FG are the best game in town for the majority of Irish people.

Sounds like a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. Very naïve really.
Our political system is clearly a shambles. Change is inevitable.

Loafing Oaf

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Fortunately, there is still a significant majority that is able to vote beyond the simplistic thinking of many of the posts in the likes of this thread, and do not have a knee jerk reaction to punish whoever is in power, or focus on the peripheral trivia of individual members of both parties. The focus is on FG, since they are in power. Previously the same voters intended to consign FF to history, in irrational revenge for no continuing the 2007 party.

Indeed, a lot of the effing and blinding I heard about FF in the wake of the economic crash didn't seem to me all that thought out. If you asked those people what exactly FF did wrong in government over the previous decade, I doubt many would have been able to give much of a coherent answer, as they were probably loving the nonstop tax cuts and public spending increases at the time. So it was kind of inevitable that many of them would find their way back to FF in time...

Jinglejangle69

Snow Garden wrote: »

Sounds like a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. Very naïve really.
Our political system is clearly a shambles. Change is inevitable.

What change?

Jinglejangle69

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Indeed, a lot of the effing and blinding I heard about FF in the wake of the economic crash didn't seem to me all that thought out. If you asked those people what exactly FF did wrong in government over the previous decade, I doubt many would have been able to give much of a coherent answer, as they were probably loving the nonstop tax cuts and public spending increases at the time. So it was kind of inevitable that many of them would find their way back to FF in time...

I can answer your very question about what FF did the previous 10 years before been voted out.

This article is from 2010 showing how FIANNA FAIL wasted 10 billion of tax payers money.

More than €1bn of taxpayers' money has been wasted every year since Fianna Fail came to power 10 years ago, a Sunday Independent investigation reveals.

We can show that since Fianna Fail took office a decade ago, more than €1bn of taxpayers' money has been wasted annually.

A list of failed projects, delayed works, bloated bureaucracy and poor management have all led to more than €10bn being squandered in the last 10 years.

Taxpayers' money has been squandered by every Government department including €100m on the abandoned Stadium Campus Ireland project, the €471m overrun on the Luas, the €150m overspend on the Port Tunnel, as well as almost a €1bn wasted on the Government's botched de-centralisation policy.


Apart from the overspends and underestimation in the cost of the Port Tunnel and the two Luas lines that don't link up, and the chaos that is the M50, Ireland's road building projects since 1997 have collectively cost €3.2bn more than what was originally forecast, according to our figures.

Opposition parties, hospital patient groups and leading economists have said that institutional waste during a time of plenty and the failure to deliver a first world infrastructure is endangering Ireland's competitiveness internationally.

One of the key areas is the health service. Its funding has increased from €3.2bn in 1997 to almost €13bn this year. Despite this massive injection since 1997, the Health Service Executive, which employs 70,000 people and 36,000 indirectly, is now closing wards and has introduced a freeze on new employees.

The closure of a 10-bed ward in Nenagh hospital is just one of a number of high-profile ward shutdowns in recent weeks. The Irish Patients Association has said cuts and ward closures currently being enforced by the HSE are unforgivable.

Steve McMahon of the Irish Patients Association said: "It is an organisation rife with institutionalised bureaucracy. When they formed the HSE in 2005 they should have introduced a redundancy package and cleared their rank

McMurphy

Now it's been established that there's nothing at all preventing Jingle starting a thread about FF, zero, nada, nothing at all (despite him claiming otherwise), I assume he's did so at this point?

Also, has he posted about 10B in 10 years from them yet? He definitely should if he hasn't already.

charlie14

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I can answer your very question about what FF did the previous 10 years before been voted out.

This article is from 2010 showing how FIANNA FAIL wasted 10 billion of tax payers money.

More than €1bn of taxpayers' money has been wasted every year since Fianna Fail came to power 10 years ago, a Sunday Independent investigation reveals.

We can show that since Fianna Fail took office a decade ago, more than €1bn of taxpayers' money has been wasted annually.

A list of failed projects, delayed works, bloated bureaucracy and poor management have all led to more than €10bn being squandered in the last 10 years.

Taxpayers' money has been squandered by every Government department including €100m on the abandoned Stadium Campus Ireland project, the €471m overrun on the Luas, the €150m overspend on the Port Tunnel, as well as almost a €1bn wasted on the Government's botched de-centralisation policy.


Apart from the overspends and underestimation in the cost of the Port Tunnel and the two Luas lines that don't link up, and the chaos that is the M50, Ireland's road building projects since 1997 have collectively cost €3.2bn more than what was originally forecast, according to our figures.

Opposition parties, hospital patient groups and leading economists have said that institutional waste during a time of plenty and the failure to deliver a first world infrastructure is endangering Ireland's competitiveness internationally.

One of the key areas is the health service. Its funding has increased from €3.2bn in 1997 to almost €13bn this year. Despite this massive injection since 1997, the Health Service Executive, which employs 70,000 people and 36,000 indirectly, is now closing wards and has introduced a freeze on new employees.

The closure of a 10-bed ward in Nenagh hospital is just one of a number of high-profile ward shutdowns in recent weeks. The Irish Patients Association has said cuts and ward closures currently being enforced by the HSE are unforgivable.

Steve McMahon of the Irish Patients Association said: "It is an organisation rife with institutionalised bureaucracy. When they formed the HSE in 2005 they should have introduced a redundancy package and cleared their rank

I don`t believe this present administration is in any great position to point fingers at anyone when it comes to financial rectitude.


In its 3 years we have the cost a childrens hospital racing towards 2 Billion and still no idea of what the final cost will be from an original price of 650 Million.

We have a rural broadband network scheme where there was only a single bidder costing the taxpayer 3 Billion where the single bidder will own the network.

That is just two instances in the last 3 years that we know off where they managed to outdo even FF`s 1 Billion a year.

More than likely like all previous administrations more will be uncovered in years to come. There is also the matter of the Independent Alliance and how much it cost to keep them on-side.

On the institutionalised bureaucracy of the HSE that should have seen numbers trimmed when the Regional Health Boards were abolished, Simon Harris now wants to re-establish them under his Slaintecare. Somehow I doubt that is going to do anything to trim their numbers.
The opposite more likely.


That is only some of the fcuk ups by this FG government.
Prior to that we had the Irish Water omnishambles during the worst recession in our history where 1 Billion was wasted and we are still waiting on the Cregan Commission of Investigation report into the IRBC write down of loans of close to 3 Billion.