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Compiling a list of FG poor performance

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    #242
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,574 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    I can answer your very question about what FF

    Well of course you can because you're a party hack. I'm talking about casual, not very politically engaged, voters who turned against Fianna Fail in 2011 because that seemed to be what everybody was doing. Many of those voters drifted back to FF in 2016, and probably more of them will next year, with time healing all wounds and that.


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    #243
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,574 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    I think a various permutations of FF/FG coalitions, sharing, or minority supporting arrangements are to be the future of govt here for many years.

    Looks like the big parties themselves are accepting this, despite the talk from both about putting together a coalition with Greens, Labour etc.
    Here's Dara Calleary talking up the 'success' of confidence & supply, which I hadn't heard from any senior FF or FG figure before.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/fine-gael-must-facilitate-fianna-fail-led-government-if-martin-wins-more-seats-dara-calleary-973480.html
    “Since the Brexit equation came into politics in Ireland, Confidence and Supply has given stability. That stability is still important, important to deal with the negotiation of a new Brexit deal."

    Also saying Fine Gael must facilitate a Fianna Fáil led Government from Opposition if FF are the larger party, which is a bit presumptuous, but since Varadkar has already indicated his willingness to that FG are not likely to take umbrage...


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    #244
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    Looks like the big parties themselves are accepting this, despite the talk from both about putting together a coalition with Greens, Labour etc.
    Here's Dara Calleary talking up the 'success' of confidence & supply, which I hadn't heard from any senior FF or FG figure before.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/fine-gael-must-facilitate-fianna-fail-led-government-if-martin-wins-more-seats-dara-calleary-973480.html


    Also saying Fine Gael must facilitate a Fianna Fáil led Government from Opposition if FF are the larger party, which is a bit presumptuous, but since Varadkar has already indicated his willingness to that FG are not likely to take umbrage...
    It will come down to the ability of one or other to form a government, not necessarily numbers. It could be very tight overall and both would be expected to try.


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    #245
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It will come down to the ability of one or other to form a government, not necessarily numbers. It could be very tight overall and both would be expected to try.

    They should both be obliged to formally put their petty civil war past behind them, accept that they're basically one and the same party, and form a coalition if numbers are as tight as last time.

    The last C&S arrangement was absolutely crap for the country, with shag all getting done.

    If that means letting SF be the largest opposition party, so be it, suck it up, the country doesn't belong to either FF/FG.


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    #246
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    OP, add the fiasco of a FG minister for justice saying RIC/DMP killed in the War of Independence were murdered. And the farcical policy of “inclusion” to give this colonial police force an equal status to the men and women they spied on, informed on and tried to kill, in WoI commemorations. While FG Taoiseach has a painting of Collins in his office to fool the gullible.


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    #247
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,574 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It will come down to the ability of one or other to form a government, not necessarily numbers. It could be very tight overall and both would be expected to try.

    Well you have to have 79+ votes to elect a taoiseach, so it does ultimately come down to numbers. If the opinion polls are borne out, and FF and FG are neck and neck around 50-odd seats, I expect both will fairly quickly bow to the inevitable and accept there has to be another arrangement of some description between the two of them to form a government. It's pretty demeaning for FF or FG to be chasing after the likes of Noel Grealish on the one hand and Richard Boyd Barrett on the other trying to put together an unwieldy house-of-cards coalition, when they know all along they're almost certainly going to fail.


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    #248
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Cannot wait to let them have it when they call to the door.

    However, I think a lot of their campaigning for this election will be done online or indeed using unethical marketing tools. Can see a lot of current TDs hiding.


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    #249
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    Well you have to have 79+ votes to elect a taoiseach, so it does ultimately come down to numbers. If the opinion polls are borne out, and FF and FG are neck and neck around 50-odd seats, I expect both will fairly quickly bow to the inevitable and accept there has to be another arrangement of some description between the two of them to form a government. It's pretty demeaning for FF or FG to be chasing after the likes of Noel Grealish on the one hand and Richard Boyd Barrett on the other trying to put together an unwieldy house-of-cards coalition, when they know all along they're almost certainly going to fail.


    There is another possibility.Do both FG and FF dislike each other that much that one of them would go into coalition with SF.
    When the numbers do not stack up politics can make for strange bedfellows that up until the results of an election have been tearing strips of each other.
    We have had it in the past with the Democratic Left and FG, the PD`s and FF, and according to the Greens, FG attempted to making soundings via the Greens to SF in 2007.
    A coalition between either and SF would be unlikely to have the numbers for an overall majority, but it would go a long way to reel in others looking for seats at the big table.


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    #250
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Cannot wait to let them have it when they call to the door.

    However, I think a lot of their campaigning for this election will be done online or indeed using unethical marketing tools. Can see a lot of current TDs hiding.

    Yes. There’s no point in us just agreeing in this echo chamber. First up with them will be telling those w*nkers who put them there and it wasn’t the welfare brigade they bend over backwards for !


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    #251
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    EmmetSpiceland wrote: »
    FG are left?! Pull the other one, mate. Thought you lot called them “fascists”?

    Which is it?



    Sure you were.

    Why do FG supporters find it so hard to believe that often the largest party in the state has people who vote for them in some elections and not in others? Its baffling. I can only assume it's because FG don't like to take criticism, better to assume any criticism is biased and from people who wont vote FG any way. Very mature.

    As regards FG's record the housing crisis is done. FG have failed miserably and record breakingly so. It's a done deal. The same with homelessness.
    That's their legacy for me and partly why this former FG voter has them lower than FF at this point and why? Because FF will be no better in many areas except housing. I believe FF will build social housing. I can't bring myself to vote for them either. Two sets of self serving party first gangsters.


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    #252
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,574 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    charlie14 wrote: »
    There is another possibility.Do both FG and FF dislike each other that much that one of them would go into coalition with SF.

    I think that only arises if FG are (marginally) the largest party. And it would not so much a case of FF disliking FG as of disliking the prospect of propping up another minority government or of going into coalition with FG as a junior partner. I've said before I can't see Martin doing business with SF but if he were to step down possibilities might open up....


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    #253
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    With regards to the housing crisis mAtt , at local level , politicians from all parties have done their best to block developments etc. the idiocy of blaming Murphy alone is comedy. He’s a pawn , a fall guy. If he had been given dictatorial powers for a year , I’d point the finger at him. I do agree the housing situation is a totally planned , disgrace. A disgrace for hard working people primarily !

    Why doesn’t waffleadkar, the man with all the answers , throw some suggestions Murphy’s way , if it’s all so simple ...

    The thing is , it’s obviously not simple , when it goes against your principles! How do you maintain power while taking the piss out of rhode you claim to represent. That’s why they are coming unstuck now !


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    #254
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    charlie14 wrote: »
    There is another possibility.Do both FG and FF dislike each other that much that one of them would go into coalition with SF.
    When the numbers do not stack up politics can make for strange bedfellows that up until the results of an election have been tearing strips of each other.
    We have had it in the past with the Democratic Left and FG, the PD`s and FF, and according to the Greens, FG attempted to making soundings via the Greens to SF in 2007.
    A coalition between either and SF would be unlikely to have the numbers for an overall majority, but it would go a long way to reel in others looking for seats at the big table.

    Highly unlikely. Bringing in any potential 3rd option outside of a very junior partner would do for that party what FG did for FF, make them a viable option.
    FF and FG like being the only two with a real chance of leading a government, why dilute that?
    Losing is bad but losing to FF means FG are likely the next to replace them. Bring in any third option and whoever of FF/FG brings us into the next crash might get the Labour party treatment.


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    #255
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    With regards to the housing crisis mAtt , at local level , politicians from all parties have done their best to block developments etc. the idiocy of blaming Murphy alone is comedy. He’s a pawn , a fall guy. If he had been given dictatorial powers for a year , I’d point the finger at him. I do agree the housing situation is a totally planned , disgrace. A disgrace for hard working people primarily !

    Why doesn’t waffleadkar, the man with all the answers , throw some suggestions Murphy’s way , if it’s all so simple ...

    The thing is , it’s obviously not simple , when it goes against your principles! How do you maintain power while taking the piss out of rhode you claim to represent. That’s why they are coming unstuck now !

    I rate Murphy as much as I do Harris or Varadkar however they have the means to make changes.

    Assuming they have principles.


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    #256
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    lads, I would like to compile a list of FG poor performance, to be used on boards and elsewhere, as a reference to the **** show they and many of their td's have provided us with. This will be particularly useful in the run up to the GE

    Any chance you could tell us which party you will be voting for ? Apologies if you've already mentioned it, I haven't read through all the pages on the thread.


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    #257
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,557 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    KaneToad wrote:
    Any chance you could tell us which party you will be voting for ? Apologies if you've already mentioned it, I haven't read through all the pages on the thread.
    Why do you want to know that?

    Is it an attempt to assign him to the Fine Gael haters club and then just dismiss him?
    Are you a Fine Gael supporter?


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    #258
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Not sure if it has been mentioned but I wasn't happy when Michael Noonan and FG broke all ethical standards and stole money directly from our private pensions. Outrageous behaviour. There are some lines that shouldn't be crossed.


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    #259
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Why do you want to know that?

    Is it an attempt to assign him to the Fine Gael haters club and then just dismiss him?
    Are you a Fine Gael supporter?

    Tbh it's the usual MO of certain posters.


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    #260
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Zamboni wrote: »
    Not sure if it has been mentioned but I wasn't happy when Michael Noonan and FG broke all ethical standards and stole money directly from our private pensions. Outrageous behaviour. There are some lines that shouldn't be crossed.

    It has always amazed me that people were still willing to vote for that creature Noonan after his treatment of Bridget McCole. He became minister for health during the Hep C scandal and watched as a dying woman was threatened to be dragged through the courts.
    Btw Noonan has no ethics as his behaviour in politics has demonstrated.


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    #261
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,574 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    KaneToad wrote: »
    Any chance you could tell us which party you will be voting for ? Apologies if you've already mentioned it, I haven't read through all the pages on the thread.

    I don't think there is a party that meets his needs. This post might give you an idea where he is coming from ideologically
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    There is an obscene welfare state. Outrageous marginal rate of tax over a pittance of an income...

    The tories in the uk could be described as centre right , so yeah , fg on many issues , could be described as left wing. Medical cards , free travel , tv license for loads of the population, its endless


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    #262
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Highly unlikely. Bringing in any potential 3rd option outside of a very junior partner would do for that party what FG did for FF, make them a viable option.
    FF and FG like being the only two with a real chance of leading a government, why dilute that?
    Losing is bad but losing to FF means FG are likely the next to replace them. Bring in any third option and whoever of FF/FG brings us into the next crash might get the Labour party treatment.

    Good point, but if we end up without another confidence and supply agreement with another GE looking likely short term and no likely change in results, I`m not sure one or the other will not make the jump.


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    #263
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It has always amazed me that people were still willing to vote for that creature Noonan after his treatment of Bridget McCole. He became minister for health during the Hep C scandal and watched as a dying woman was threatened to be dragged through the courts.
    Btw Noonan has no ethics as his behaviour in politics has demonstrated.

    My wife is an ex FG voter because of his treatment of Bridget McCole.
    To this day even the mention of Noonan is the proverbial red rag to a bull for her.


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    #264
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    KaneToad wrote: »
    Any chance you could tell us which party you will be voting for ? Apologies if you've already mentioned it, I haven't read through all the pages on the thread.

    I honestly don’t know. I won’t be independent. All the other options are appalling. As a hypothetical, if sf formed part of a government and started the state building housing again , but with a proper model , it would be far more important etc than anything else that will be done. Issues like health reform etc here from any party are pure comedy. The housing issue is an ideology one. Health etc and public service reform , are hitting their mates. Will never , ever happen in this country. Honestly , so many things are off the table here , from any party , that we must be nearly unique in the world, that there will be virtually no difference to joe citizen , regardless of which of the three biggest parties formed a coalition. Could consider not voting.


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    #265
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Record amounts in trolleys. Record “ homeless “ their dream of forever escalating welfare payments are well and truly over. Far too many black holes.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2020/0106/1104550-health/

    Zero welfare increases going forward. They’ll need to feed the black holes and should prioritize infrastructure and paying down debt...


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    #266
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Highest number of patients in a single day waiting for beds today at 760. The narrative seems to be it's flu season but this is an annual thing.

    Another sky high achievement for FG. The clowns are in power since 2011 so their excuses don't wash.

    Literally asleep on the job.


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    #267
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Highest number of patients in a single day waiting for beds today at 760. The narrative seems to be it's flu season but this is an annual thing.

    Another sky high achievement for FG. The clowns are in power since 2011 so their excuses don't wash.

    Literally asleep on the job.
    and next election some other clowns will get into government and absolutely nothing will change in the health service - its been in "crisis" my entire life.


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    #268
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Highest number of patients in a single day waiting for beds today at 760. The narrative seems to be it's flu season but this is an annual thing.

    Another sky high achievement for FG. The clowns are in power since 2011 so their excuses don't wash.

    Literally asleep on the job.

    Never forget that the current leader of Fianna Fail was also Minister for Health and guess what he did?

    **** all.

    Nothing is going to change in the health service, We could be paying 70% taxes in this country and we still wouldn't fix it.


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    #269
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,574 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    Never forget that the current leader of the largest opposition party was also Minister for Health and guess what he did?

    **** all.

    I won't have that.


    He commissioned over 100 reports costing at least €30 million:P

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/martin-spent-eur30m-on-health-reports-1.1164662


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    #270
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Record breaking government, highest homeless figures ever, highest childrens hospital waiting list and the latest....

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/simply-shameful-hospitals-hit-by-record-day-of-overcrowding-as-760-patients-on-trolleys-38837253.html


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    #271
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Highest number of patients in a single day waiting for beds today at 760. The narrative seems to be it's flu season but this is an annual thing.

    Another sky high achievement for FG. The clowns are in power since 2011 so their excuses don't wash.

    Literally asleep on the job.


    The narrative now is more about buying votes than improving the health service.


    We are being encouraged to visit our GP rather than clog up A&E unnecessarily.

    The latest vote buying effort is to clog up GP surgeries by extending free GP care to those under 13, when GPs have already said that free GP care for those under 6 has increased their workload by 20-30%



    No indication either of how "free" this will be as their is no agreement with GPs for under 13s


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