Veganism: Who is behind the Agenda?

Panch18

Capercaillie wrote: »

True pasture-fed beef/organic/regenerative agriculture /nature friendly beef is in minority in Ireland.

Pasture fed in the minority in Ireland?? Are you serious

Capercaillie

Panch18 wrote: »

Pasture fed in the minority in Ireland?? Are you serious

True pasture fed cattle = without any supplementary meal.

Panch18

Capercaillie wrote: »

True pasture fed cattle = without any supplementary meal.

There’s nothing wrong with a bit of meal

The vast majority of the diet for the vast majority of bovines in Ireland is grass

gozunda

Capercaillie wrote: »

Point I was trying to make was Gozunda was slating soy, while ignoring the fact its fed (in meal) to mainly finishing cattle, ad lib meal feetlot cattle and dairy cows.

Will you fek away off with that ****e. I will slate soy as much as I like - thanks.

Never said I was having beef for christmas dinner.

I stated that I was having goose- when asked And I can confirm the goose I will be eating was not fed 'soy' ...

You took it on yourself to go off on a bs rant about cattle been fed 'Soy from South America" even though as shown most of what beef cattle is fed is not 'soy from South America' and have now added "ad lib meal feetlot cattle and dairy cows" just for the boot.

Either way I truely hope your Turkey hasn't been fed 'soy from south America'...

Dinzee Conlee

Panch18 wrote: »

There’s nothing wrong with a bit of meal

The vast majority of the diet for the vast majority of bovines in Ireland is grass

Is there a true definition of pasture-fed?

Grass-fed is a thing in the states I think, and I think commands a premium price, but not sure what it if there are strict rules on percentage of pasture in the diet?

emaherx

Capercaillie wrote: »

Point I was trying to make was Gozunda was slating soy, while ignoring the fact its fed (in meal) to mainly finishing cattle, ad lib meal feetlot cattle and dairy cows.

The point you were making is wrong. Most of it is not fed to feed lot cattle. It's mostly fed in meal form to pigs, poultry and dairy cows.

The majority of cattle finished here are not feed lot fed.

Capercaillie

Panch18 wrote: »

There’s nothing wrong with a bit of meal

The vast majority of the diet for the vast majority of bovines in Ireland is grass

Grass fed is not the same.

Dinzee Conlee

Another, kinda related question - as grass-fed is a thing in the states, if we wanted to brand some of our beef as grass-fed - whose job would this be do this?

Would it be Bord Bia?

Capercaillie

gozunda wrote: »

Will you fek away off with that ****e. I will slate soy as much as I like - thanks all the same.

Never said I was having beef for christmas dinner.

I stated that I was having goose- when asked And I can confirm the goose I will be eating was not fed 'soy' ...

You took it on yourself to go off on a bs rant about cattle been fed 'Soy from South America" even though as shown most of what beef cattle is fed is not 'soy from South America' and have now added "ad lib meal feetlot cattle and dairy cows" just for the boot.

Either way I truely hope your Turkey hasn't been fed 'soy from south America'...

If you read the posts I made, I was showing how hypocritical your posts on soy were. Saying how bad it is while omitting the fact that Irish cattle get fed soy (through meal).

emaherx

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Another, kinda related question - as grass-fed is a thing in the states, if we wanted to brand some of our beef as grass-fed - whose job would this be do this?

Would it be Bord Bia?

Nearly all of our beef is grass fed. Even our feed lots are not the international definition of feed lots as many are grass based. Feed lot status here really only means farms that are the terminal destination for cattle and have no breeding animals. Animals on such farms may still have access to pasture as long as they are double fenced with no possibility of mixing with other herds.

emaherx

Capercaillie wrote: »

If you read the posts I made, I was showing how hypocritical your posts on soy were. Saying how bad it is while omitting the fact that Irish cattle get fed soy (through meal).

I'd have to say I also agree that soy should not be imported as feed not sure how that would be hypocritical. But it is not fed to all Irish cattle and it is not in all cattle meal. The amount of soy imported into this country wouldn't feed all of the cattle here for a week and a lot of it is fed to pigs/poultry. So at most if all cattle are fed soy it wouldn't make up more than a few days worth of feeding.

Dinzee Conlee

emaherx wrote: »

Nearly all of our beef is grass fed. Even our feed lots are not the international definition of feed lots as many are grass based. Feed lot status here really only means farms that are the terminal destination for cattle and have no breeding animals. Animals on such farms may still have access to pasture as long as they are double fenced with no possibility of mixing with other herds.

I know, but I don’t think we market our beef as grass-fed, even though grass-fed commands a premium in the US?

So my question was who should create or push this grass-fed brand, if we were to push it?

ganmo

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I know, but I don’t think we market our beef as grass-fed, even though grass-fed commands a premium in the US?

So my question was who should create or push this grass-fed brand, if we were to push it?

Kerrygold is marketed as grass fed. There was a lawsuit in California claiming false advertising because the cows weren't 100% grass fed.
https://www.feednavigator.com/Article/2019/03/14/California-based-lawsuit-focused-on-Kerrygold-cow-feed-ends

gozunda

Capercaillie wrote: »

If you read the posts I made, I was showing how hypocritical your posts on soy were. Saying how bad it is while omitting the fact that Irish cattle get fed soy (through meal).

Jeez thats some load of crap in that comment. "Posts on soy"????? You brought up soy boy. This is my post you initially replied to

gozunda wrote:

Much the same - except I'll be having a locally sourced goose. Ditto veg spuds and yes even my own sprouts grown here. Not a huge fan of cranberries though tbh.
...

Your reply to the above!

Capercaille wrote:

Gozunda, fair play there. I assume you will not eat Irish beef that has been finished on meal with soy products imported from South America?

I replied to Your reference to 'soy.' that I wouldnt be having beef fed same or even as part of (crap) synthetic foods on Christmas day (and that's the totality off what I said about re 'how bad it is'. so get off the high horse bs.

You then subsequently and bizarrely went off on a rant about South American soy and beef. And yes I pointed out I had made no reference to either 'Soy or 'beef' in the post you replied to. Or you forgotten about all that now?

Home goal there boy ... home goal - well done :pac:

Balf

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I know, but I don’t think we market our beef as grass-fed, even though grass-fed commands a premium in the US?

So my question was who should create or push this grass-fed brand, if we were to push it?

Is this not already done?

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-beef-sellers-get-go-ahead-in-america-3453213-Jun2017/

There has been a push for Irish beef in the US, but the market still accounts for only a small amount of our exports.

Dinzee Conlee

Balf wrote: »

Is this not already done?

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-beef-sellers-get-go-ahead-in-america-3453213-Jun2017/

There has been a push for Irish beef in the US, but the market still accounts for only a small amount of our exports.

That article would seem it has.

Although I was more thinking of an Irish grass-fed brand... similar to what we have with Kerrygold butter...

Balf

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

That article would seem it has.

Although I was more thinking of an Irish grass-fed brand... similar to what we have with Kerrygold butter...

Yeah, I think that's effectively what they have. There's a sort of "Irish grass-fed" label, that means 80% grass fed and yadda yadda yadda.

What's missing is the actual demand for such a product. I'm afraid, like in many things relating to Irish farming and rural life in general, the problem isn't a lack of effort. So, yes, folk have tried to position Irish beef as grass-fed in the hope that this would attract interest in the US. No, it hasn't yet generated much interest, so the UK is still by far our largest market.

gozunda

Balf wrote: »

Yeah, I think that's effectively what they have. There's a sort of "Irish grass-fed" label, that means 80% grass fed and yadda yadda yadda.

What's missing is the actual demand for such a product. I'm afraid, like in many things relating to Irish farming and rural life in general, the problem isn't a lack of effort. So, yes, folk have tried to position Irish beef as grass-fed in the hope that this would attract interest in the US. No, it hasn't yet generated much interest, so the UK is still by far our largest market.

Your continued pessimism would again appear to be incorrect ...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-23/most-grass-fed-beef-labeled-product-of-u-s-a-is-imported

Balf

gozunda wrote: »

Your continued pessimism would again appear to be incorrect ...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-23/most-grass-fed-beef-labeled-product-of-u-s-a-is-imported

And the percentage of Irish beef exports going to the US is?

Once again, the voice of so-called "first hand experience" is found to be talking out its hole.


https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/why-the-american-dream-has-failed-to-deliver-for-irish-beef-exporters-38616691.html#

One senior source in the beef sector conceded the move into the US fell far short of industry expectations.

"When we went to the US, we were going to sell lots of beef to them, but their steaks were cheaper.

"We were trying to push cuts that we could get a high value for here, so it made no sense. It was game over with price.

"They didn't want the cheaper manufactured beef, as they were buying that from Australia and New Zealand," he said.

Further, Ireland's marketing message around grass-fed came up against fierce competition and we were not able to compete with cheaper grass-fed produce from South America.

"Most of Uruguay is grass-fed, Argentina is grass-fed, Australian is grass-fed, and they are all cheaper," he explained.

gozunda

Balf wrote: »

And the percentage of Irish beef exports going to the US is?Once again, the voice of so-called "first hand experience" is found to be talking out its hole. One senior source in the beef sector conceded the move into the US fell far short of industry expectations....

Tldr ...

Jaysus but you dont write some complete gob****ery about agriculture.

What bit of 'grass fed' as an "increasingly sought-after product" is hard to understand? It's an area where demand appears to be growing and thats a good thing. Sorry that doesn't suit you dietary requirements as you detailed previously. If there are problems finding the correct market balance then that's differs little from from any other area of production.

Tbh if everyone in the country had the pessimistic myopia apparent in your comments - we might as well turn out the lights, shoot the begrudgers and start again.

From the article you linked in your previous comment:

According to Henry Horkan, Bord Bia's North American manager for the first six months of 2019, the volume of Irish beef exports to the US has risen significantly...

Coupled with improved prices, exports have breached the €10m mark for the first time at €12.3m in value (and 2,680t in volume).

"This is a nearly five-fold increase in the value of Irish beef exports to the US when compared to the same period last year,"...

The article concludes that

"Focusing on the grass-based production system of Irish beef, sustainability, quality assurance and Ireland's family farming, these further validate the positioning of Irish beef amongst new target accounts," Mr Horkan said.

Interesting that you seem to think that that people on the ground like Mr Horkan
Or as you detail "the voice of so-called "first hand experience" is found to be talking out its hole".

Certainly it would appear there are those who are speaking in that manner for sure ...

Balf

gozunda wrote: »

What bit of 'grass fed' as an "increasingly sought-after product" is hard to understand?

You are selectively quoting from the article, and deliberately avoiding its point.

This is as pointless as debating with a religious cult.

gozunda

Balf wrote: »

You are selectively quoting from the article, and deliberately avoiding its point.This is as pointless as debating with a religious cult.

Lol. I'm right on the point. But if you believe the balance of the article is somehow irrelevant or your own skewed quoting from that article should not be corrected? Yup sounds legit.

As stated above the author of the article concluded and I quote again:

"Focusing on the grass-based production system of Irish beef, sustainability, quality assurance and Ireland's family farming, these further validate the positioning of Irish beef amongst new target accounts," Mr Horkan said.

I think I'll stick with the experts on this one and leave the biased opinions to the usual interests ...

CloughCasey1

Dear Santa

Can I please be a mod for just 1 day so i can rid our F&F forum from agri bashers. It's not their fault they are all snow-flakes and have been brain washed into thinking what people with plenty of money and loads of products to sell want them to think. Can you please direct their misguided minds to other pollutant industries that are creating actual damage to the environment that we carefully tend to each and every day.

PS I'm going to sleep now so can you also sort out Larry for me and when I wake up and click into the beef price thread in the morning we will have a base price of €4.50

PPS can you fix it that Galway do the double this year!

Yours in hope
CC1.

Parishlad

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Dear Santa

Can I please be a mod for just 1 day so i can rid our F&F forum from agri bashers. It's not their fault they are all snow-flakes and have been brain washed into thinking what people with plenty of money and loads of products to sell want them to think. Can you please direct their misguided minds to other pollutant industries that are creating actual damage to the environment that we carefully tend to each and every day.

PS I'm going to sleep now so can you also sort out Larry for me and when I wake up and click into the beef price thread in the morning we will have a base price of €4.50

PPS can you fix it that Galway do the double this year!

Yours in hope
CC1.

Dear CC,
Santa here. Whatever about the other items on your list it really is beyond my powers to help Galway. I’m Santa, not Paul Daniels.

Happy Christmas.
Mr Claus.

Ps. Hon the Banner!

CloughCasey1

Parishlad wrote: »

Dear CC,
Santa here. Whatever about the other items on your list it really is beyond my powers to help Galway. I’m Santa, not Paul Daniels.

Happy Christmas.
Mr Claus.

Ps. Hon the Banner!

Jaysus I thought that would have been the easiest to sort :D

YFlyer

ganmo wrote: »

Fyp
Chasing trends is a good way to loose money

Yet the Bord Bia executive is in knots over people on a vegan diet.

YFlyer

[quote="gozunda;112084813"


I think I'll stick with the experts on this one and leave the biased opinions to the usual interests ...[/quote]

Haha funny.

gozunda

YFlyer wrote: »

Haha funny.

Yeah the usual plant food advocacy is freaking hilarious all right

YFlyer

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah the usual plant food advocacy is freaking hilarious all right

True

_Brian

Lighten the mood a little

https://fbwat.ch/12oiAjafXTPmAFJu