Champions Cup 2019/20

The Lost Sheep

degsie wrote: »

Nigel's last season hopefully

Would any other ref have allowed a game like Nige did? End was farcical but it was a good game...

The Lost Sheep

degsie wrote: »

Nigel's last season hopefully

Would any other ref have allowed a game like Nige did? End was farcical but it was a good game...

OldRio

Better second half both teams realised they had to defend.

IngazZagni

degsie wrote: »

Nigel's last season hopefully

It was clearly the producers cockup. It was clear as day when he wanted the clock to restart but the producers failed to do so. Very important to question it. Thought he reffed the game very well.


Well done to Exteter.

RugbyLover123

Do teams not know you can go for a drop goal? NZ and Oz last week, Racing this week..

ScrubsfanChris

Penalty wasn't an easy kick but it would have been a very simple drop goal a few phases later.
Doesn't matter how good you are or if you have an extra man. Being ahead on the scoreboard is all that matters.

ScrubsfanChris

Just don't get people calling this a fantastic game?
It was entertaining yes but riddled with errors, brain dead moments and stupid play.

BBDBB

Wonderful dramatic game but Nice to see Rhod Gilbert’s side get the win

AbusesToilets

That ending classic Nige.

Ignore players flopping over all game: Check

Allow turn over on the line by 3rd player entering the ruck, debatably on his feet: Check

Penalise team for same offense to set up game sealing penalty: check

BBDBB

Please collect your own medals, lol

sydthebeat

"Abuses wrote:

Allow turn over on the line by 3rd player entering the ruck, debatably on his feet: Check

The ball was in the air. The ball carrier was on his back with the ball up off the ground so it was free for whoever to play it. The guy on the ground held on, their gave away the pen for holding on the ground

pc7

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Just don't get people calling this a fantastic game?
It was entertaining yes but riddled with errors, brain dead moments and stupid play.

Ah as a neutral it was fast and both ends of the pitch, better than the leather just being kicked off the ball.

BBDBB

Strange times, but well done lads none the less

molloyjh

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Just don't get people calling this a fantastic game?
It was entertaining yes but riddled with errors, brain dead moments and stupid play.

This. It had drama, but not a whole lot of real quality. Exeter created nothing at all in the second half.

RugbyLover123

That turnover at the end from Clyne was ridiculous. So far in from the side it was laughable. Regardless, Racing only have themselves to blame for forcing it when they had 10 minutes left and failing to even attempt a drop goal when they were 5 yards out.

Well done to Exeter though, shame there’s no fans for them.

molloyjh

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

That turnover at the end from Clyne was ridiculous. So far in from the side it was laughable. Regardless, Racing only have themselves to blame for forcing it when they had 10 minutes left and failing to even attempt a drop goal when they were 5 yards out.

Well done to Exeter though, shame there’s no fans for them.

Was Hidalgo-Clyde not okay given he was behind the try line?

sydthebeat

molloyjh wrote: »

Was Hidalgo-Clyde not okay given he was behind the try line?

Thought that at the time, but then arguably it should have been held up, scrum 5

CMcsporty

pc7 wrote: »

Ah as a neutral it was fast and both ends of the pitch, better than the leather just being kicked off the ball.

I always enjoy seeing a team really have a cut. Racing did that at the very least.

Russell played flat and frenetic as always....Mistakes yes but to say this wasn’t a brilliant final would be missing the excellent entertainment served up. Enthralling.

Racing suitably punished for high risks by Exeter who hung in and were able to capitalise on Racing’s errors.
A classic David & Goliath final.

molloyjh

sydthebeat wrote: »

Thought that at the time, but then arguably it should have been held up, scrum 5

Claassan wasn't over the line though, Hidalgo-Clyde was, no?

sydthebeat

molloyjh wrote: »

Claassan wasn't over the line though, Hidalgo-Clyde was, no?

Yeah, but the only way you can argue "not offside because in goal" is to accept that the ball is in goal therefore no ruck.

If it's no ruck, then it is held up

molloyjh

sydthebeat wrote: »

Yeah, but the only way you can argue "not offside because in goal" is to accept that the ball is in goal therefore no ruck.

If it's no ruck, then it is held up

I thought that if the gate was on or over the line then he was okay?

sydthebeat

molloyjh wrote: »

I thought that if the gate was on or over the line then he was okay?

It has to be clear cut.

Its either a ruck infield therefore offside applies, or the ball is in goal and no offside applies.

There can't be a situation where a defender is in goal and no offside applies, yet the ball is in a ruck infield and an offside line exists

But I'm always open to be corrected

awec

The penalty near the end that Racing got when they went to the corner, I'm sorry but when you're 1 point down in the last few minutes of a final in kicking range then you take the damn points and fcuk this corner business.

And if you miss, then you get into drop goal range and give it another lash.

molloyjh

sydthebeat wrote: »

It has to be clear cut.

Its either a ruck infield therefore offside applies, or the ball is in goal and no offside applies.

There can't be a situation where a defender is in goal and no offside applies, yet the ball is in a ruck infield and an offside line exists

But I'm always open to be corrected

Same. I'm not entirely sure tbh. I know the offside line effectively stops at the try line. If the back feet are 2m beyond the line then the try line is the offside line. But whether this applies to how players enter the ruck I dont know. I'm just assuming that the same logic applies.

Anyone able to confirm????

Paul Smeenus

awec wrote: »

The penalty near the end that Racing got when they went to the corner, I'm sorry but when you're 1 point down in the last few minutes of a final in kicking range then you take the damn points and fcuk this corner business.

And if you miss, then you get into drop goal range and give it another lash.

Yeah. Rank idiocy.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

The penalty near the end that Racing got when they went to the corner, I'm sorry but when you're 1 point down in the last few minutes of a final in kicking range then you take the damn points and fcuk this corner business.

And if you miss, then you get into drop goal range and give it another lash.

To be fair, the only kick at goal they converted was from right in front of the posts. They missed anything that was even marginally difficult. And that one was a tough kick. On the other hand, they had scored of a line out maul already and Exeter were missing a forward. I think it was the right option to go for the corner. The problems came after that.

Buer

Wonderful entertainment. Watched it on record. Cracking match. But it was more like watching a Challenge Cup final rather than the incredible intensity that I would associate with a final normally. I honestly think Saracens would still have Exeter for breakfast in a one off game.

Russell showed why he's talented but as useful as an inflatable dart board when the crunch comes. Kicking out on the full, intercept try, passes lashed like missiles from point blank distance leading to a big knock on etc. You simply will not be trusted to be a Lion with that decision making and execution under pressure.

Racing were the better side for me but their slow start was inexcusable and it cost them the title. They played well and Vakatawa should be POTY. Exeter's scores can generally be traced back to Racing errors as opposed to them creating something special.

Feel sorry for Zebo and Ryan. Zebo took his tries well, especially the second but is playing an odd role for Racing. He's not covering the backfield really at all. Absent when Exeter kicked through there which appeared to be by design. Ryan was later onto the field than I expected and had no time to make his mark.

Overall, happy to see Whitten and particularly Steenson win. Great servants and deserve every success. I don't think there has been a final since 2009 where I've thought the winning team wasn't the best team in Europe.

Buer

awec wrote: »

The penalty near the end that Racing got when they went to the corner, I'm sorry but when you're 1 point down in the last few minutes of a final in kicking range then you take the damn points and fcuk this corner business.

And if you miss, then you get into drop goal range and give it another lash.

Normally I would agree but that was a low percentage kick. The clock was against them and Exeter would have stuck the restart 50m downfield or, possibly, run it out before kicking to touch and competing in the air.

I can't say going to the corner was the right call for certain but I certainly can see the logic in doing so. It was essentially a touch line conversion and they had missed two of those already.

Burkie1203

Ryan diving onto the players on the ground and a Munster fan making it "reasonable" and "sufficiently close to what the directives allow"


https://twitter.com/timoconnorbl/status/1317579704577200129?s=19

swiwi_

Buer wrote: »

Wonderful entertainment. Watched it on record. Cracking match. But it was more like watching a Challenge Cup final rather than the incredible intensity that I would associate with a final normally. I honestly think Saracens would still have Exeter for breakfast in a one off game.

Russell showed why he's talented but as useful as an inflatable dart board when the crunch comes. Kicking out on the full, intercept try, passes lashed like missiles from point blank distance leading to a big knock on etc. You simply will not be trusted to be a Lion with that decision making and execution under pressure.

Racing were the better side for me but their slow start was inexcusable and it cost them the title. They played well and Vakatawa should be POTY. Exeter's scores can generally be traced back to Racing errors as opposed to them creating something special.

Feel sorry for Zebo and Ryan. Zebo took his tries well, especially the second but is playing an odd role for Racing. He's not covering the backfield really at all. Absent when Exeter kicked through there which appeared to be by design. Ryan was later onto the field than I expected and had no time to make his mark.

Overall, happy to see Whitten and particularly Steenson win. Great servants and deserve every success. I don't think there has been a final since 2009 where I've thought the winning team wasn't the best team in Europe.

Vakatawa has been a sensational switch from wing to centre. Not many others have done it so well. Umaga pretty decent, I cant remember if mortlock started his career on the wing. Not only a superb runner, but also passes and defends well.

Clegg

I tend to ignore everything TRK posts these days. It's a fan account that has given up trying to hide its bias.

Tomtom364

Clegg wrote: »

I tend to ignore everything TRK posts these days. It's a fan account that has given up trying to hide its bias.

Since when has TRK ever claimed to be unbiased??? It's a self proclaimed fan site!

What an utterly bizzare take.

sydthebeat

swiwi_ wrote: »

Vakatawa has been a sensational switch from wing to centre. Not many others have done it so well. Umaga pretty decent, I cant remember if mortlock started his career on the wing. Not only a superb runner, but also passes and defends well.

Rougerie was pretty good when switching from wing to center.

Buer

That D'Arcy lad made a good fist of it too.

swiwi_

Buer wrote: »

That D'Arcy lad made a good fist of it too.

Was darcy much of a winger though??

Clegg

I love watching Finn Russell play. I don't think there's a 10 out there with as broad a skill set as him. Brilliant passer and inventive kicker. But he lets himself down at the big moments. The intercepts take the headlines, but his line kicking has been dodgy for years and he's never fixed it. Zebo wouldn't have scored without Russell's excellent pass, but Exeter would have scored two tries fewer if a different 10 was playing for Raving.

He'll be selected for the Lions, but probably for the non-test matches. Can't be trusted for the big games.

OldRio

I think Owens made a monumental cock up in that turn over decision.
Anyway I came to that conclusion sat here in a comfy chair. In front of a roaring fire with a fine glass of Pinot Noir in my hand having watched numerous slow motion replays of the incident.

It was interesting during the match listening to Owens talking to the TMO. I think he was getting a little peeved with him. Just an observation.

bilston

4 of the last 5 Champions Cups have gone to the Premiership (Saracens x 3 and Exeter x 1)...the PRL manoeuvrings under Mark McCafferty (remember him!) have paid off.

Yeah_Right

molloyjh wrote: »

I thought that if the gate was on or over the line then he was okay?

That's my understanding as well. Like if a maul goes over the line you can enter from the side as long as you're behind the try line.

Very entertaining game to watch for a neutral. It was unusual to watch a final with no preference for either team. Enjoyable.

Digifriendly

Wales Online have interesting article on last few controversial minutes of this game. Nigel Owens saying that coming in from the side when you're behind the goal ine is not an offence. The time issue at the end is also contentious.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/pity-you-dont-know-rules-19124415

Buer

swiwi_ wrote: »

Was darcy much of a winger though??

Was in the back three (mostly wing) for the first 4-5 years of his career and got his first few caps there. Certainly never reached the levels he did as a centre but that was more due to him waking up and getting serious after being left out of the 2003 RWC squad which coincided with his move to centre.

molloyjh

Digifriendly wrote: »

Wales Online have interesting article on last few controversial minutes of this game. Nigel Owens saying that coming in from the side when you're behind the goal ine is not an offence. The time issue at the end is also contentious.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/pity-you-dont-know-rules-19124415

That clears that up so. Glad I wasn't giving out to Quinny on the tele for nothing so. :pac:

razorblunt

Clegg wrote: »

I love watching Finn Russell play. I don't think there's a 10 out there with as broad a skill set as him. Brilliant passer and inventive kicker. But he lets himself down at the big moments. The intercepts take the headlines, but his line kicking has been dodgy for years and he's never fixed it. Zebo wouldn't have scored without Russell's excellent pass, but Exeter would have scored two tries fewer if a different 10 was playing for Raving.

He'll be selected for the Lions, but probably for the non-test matches. Can't be trusted for the big games.

He's a 10 that's made for gifs and YouTube highlight reels.
He was pretty poor in the semi too until Racing were inevitably throwing caution to the wind and he came up with that lovely chip over the top.

Structure and basics seem to kill him.

sydthebeat

nice stat i heard this morning

there was no Bristol player on the field on friday night, that was alive when Bristol last won a senior Pro Cup.

That was the Anglo-Welsh Cup in 1983

Buer

razorblunt wrote: »

He's a 10 that's made for gifs and YouTube highlight reels.
He was pretty poor in the semi too until Racing were inevitably throwing caution to the wind and he came up with that lovely chip over the top.

Structure and basics seem to kill him.

It goes against the general tone of conversation after the semi final but he was pretty average against Saracens. His wonderful display of passing is negated by his extremely poor decision making at times. The pass he threw to Zebo which was knocked on deep in their 22 and gave Saracens 3 points was a perfect example. Larmour did something very similar by throwing a pass at Henshaw in an identical position. At another point, he went blindside when completely outnumbered in the second half too leading to Racing almost getting turned over, hastily box kicking with no chaser and Saracens winning a penalty again.

He seems to want to force things and go for the high risk, high reward play regardless of where he is on the field. He lashed a pass at Vakatawa at one point on Saturday which never had a hope of being caught. Great to watch but there's a reason he's only got one Pro14 title to his name in terms of silverware. He's an outhalf who doesn't kick at goal, doesn't kick for touch and isn't a noteworthy defender and makes as many errors as brilliant plays. You can't carry so many gaps in a game if you want to win silverware. If Racing had a boring, play by numbers outhalf at the weekend, they'd have the trophy in Paris with them right now.

aloooof

As a neutral, I absolutely love watching Russell play. But if he was the 10 of the team I supported, I'm not sure I'd be as effusive...

bilston

aloooof wrote: »

As a neutral, I absolutely love watching Russell play. But if he was the 10 of the team I supported, I'm not sure I'd be as effusive...

Yeah...Great to watch and a bit of a maverick...not unlike Carlos Spencer...but then the less naturally gifted Andrew Mehrtens won a lot more caps for NZ than Spencer, and when you think of the Lions, I don't see Russell getting close to Farrell (or Sexton if he somehow rediscovers his best form) next summer.

lawrencesummers

bilston wrote: »

4 of the last 5 Champions Cups have gone to the Premiership (Saracens x 3 and Exeter x 1)...the PRL manoeuvrings under Mark McCafferty (remember him!) have paid off.

Sarries should have been thrown out of the league a few years ago and never been in a position to contest the champions cup. Exeter won fair and square, but in a year is simply an anomaly.

The starkest thing is that French teams for all their money can’t win it. In the entire history of the competition French teams have only
Won a final twice against non French opposition.

aloooof

bilston wrote: »

Yeah...Great to watch and a bit of a maverick...not unlike Carlos Spencer...but then the less naturally gifted Andrew Mehrtens won a lot more caps for NZ than Spencer, and when you think of the Lions, I don't see Russell getting close to Farrell (or Sexton if he somehow rediscovers his best form) next summer.

There's an argument he may not get in the Lions squad, tbh. The likes of Dan Biggar and George Ford might be in with a shout. Even aside from that, is he back in the Scotland fold after the fallout with Townsend?

penybont exile

Haven't read earlier comments ...... but what is it with fly-halfs lately when it comes to drop goals. Russell on Saturday ... OZ & NZ last week ......

Big chance at the end to win the game with a dg but not seen as an option .... beggars belief to me !!