Hate Speech Public Consultation

Wibbs

sk8erboii wrote: »

Mate im a lot smarter than you that I can guarantee.

Outside of making a weak joke or point, anybody regardless of position, opinion or viewpoint, who feels the need to state this in any debate is almost by definition a dribbling moron.

Wibbs

sk8erboii wrote: »

Come out with your modules and university. So I can see your credentials.

And the jury is in...

alastair

alastair wrote: »

To be clear - your premise is a nonsense. The guy who leads the government is the son of an immigrant, who looks different, and who was popular enough as a local GP that it boosted his son's initial political run. The Dublin local elections candidate with the biggest surplus of first preferences is Hazel Chu, again the daughter of immigrants who look different. 'Looking different' means precious little to most people; Varadkar, or Chu, are not going to be booted out or re-elected on the basis of their ethnicity, but on their record as politicians. The minority of race-obsessed gimps who do have an issue with their ethnicity are just that - a minority.

Looking different and not integrating does matter to quite a few people (hardly a minority) and whether they accept migrants as being full citizens, the same way they would another native Irish person. Instead the migrant is accepted as being a foreigner living within the country.

I'd argue that Leo, and others, are riding on the back of the trend to push minorities into positions of authority, and that it has very little to suggest a mass acceptance of peoples who behave and look different from ourselves. But hey, I could be wrong in that opinion.

Honestly, I'm not against migration. I think it's a wonderful thing for Ireland in certain cases. I have friends from Poland who have integrated extremely well, and contribute massively to their local area. I'm just skeptical of the claims for the benefits of unrestrained multiculturalism and the lack of planning for integration of cultures so greatly different from our own.

sk8erboii

sk8erboii wrote: »

Yes I believe you’re a quadruple PHD majoring in geopolitics the same way i believe Tiananmen square never happened.

Nope. I'm not feeding a troll. Tried being nice but... Enough.

sk8erboii

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nope. I'm not feeding a troll. Tried being nice but... Enough.

Im not even trolling. Why do you presume I used your post as a ‘platform’ ?

Thats an incredibly arrogant, egotistical take on someone pointing out your obvious cognitive dissonance of a forum post. (WHY DOESNT A REPRESSIVE AUTHORITARIAN STATE TREAT ME LIKE THE SPECIAL CITIZEN THAT I AM).

Mate China literally harvests organs from its own citizens. You could have 50 PHDs but this dissonance remains.

Why were you expecting to be treated like not a foreigner?

Gynoid

Wibbs wrote: »

TL;DR? (and I'm not surprised to be fair) multiculturalism is a fine idea, a lovely dream, but the waking reality is quite at odds with that dream and I can't see that changing any time soon.

And something that contradicts the (Star Trek) globalist one world thrust that some seem to have been highly influenced by is the continuing even growing strength of secession movements. Look at Scotland, Catalonia, what happened not so long ago in Yugoslavia, USSR etc. People feel quite strongly about their sense of homeland and belonging, which does not turn them into racists as is portrayed, but rather makes them proud people, which is a good thing. It was the Borg in the idealistic scifi stuff who went for unquestioning multicultural assimilation; the good guys respected and enjoyed the differences between tribes and homelands. To perhaps overstretch an analogy but hey..

sk8erboii

sk8erboii wrote: »

Im not even trolling. Why do presume I used your post as a ‘platform’ ?

Because you keep making points unrelated to what I posted? Seeking to soapbox grandstand your views by quoting me.

Why were you expecting to be treated like not a foreigner?

I'm not. You really do have problems, don't you? So abusive. You really should consider engaging in debate/discussion rather than being so insulting, and dramatic. And perhaps consider the meaning of the words you keep throwing out and whether they're truly applicable.

But, in any case, you've simply not contributed anything of value to discuss, and keep throwing out insults. Hence the trolling. Not quite on my ignore list, but you're inching closer by the second. I'm holding out some hope (considering your post count) that acting a muppet like now, is just a rarity.

alastair

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed, but even there we see trends in other nations more deeply into multiculturalism. We're only at the start point too. But let's look at the UK and the minorities who get voted in. Run down the list and something jumps out. The majority are British Indian/Pakistani. The Black British are a minority and strongly follow the make up of their constituents. The pale gimps seem OK enough with voting for Brown folks, not so much for Black.

Not too many Chinese candidates either in the UK - that doesn't mean people wouldn't vote for them if they did run. Your desire to equate lower black numbers of MPs with a specific unwillingness on the part of voters to elect them is, again, rather revealing. The black population of the UK is around 4-5% so, in terms of representation, they fare far better than, say women - who form a majority of the electorate, but only a third of the House of Commons.

But then, you've made your particular perspective clear enough:

Again I note that when this "I'm Irish and you better believe it, or else you're a Wacist!!!" stuff comes up, it's almost always from darker skinned folks and usually Africans, you don't hear it nearly so much from lighter skinned Poles, Italians, Spaniards, Russians, Czechs, Latvians et al, even folks from the Middle East and China, no matter how long they've lived here or what passport they carry.

alastair

Deleted User wrote: »

Looking different and not integrating does matter to quite a few people (hardly a minority) and whether they accept migrants as being full citizens, the same way they would another native Irish person. Instead the migrant is accepted as being a foreigner living within the country.

I'd argue that Leo, and others, are riding on the back of the trend to push minorities into positions of authority, and that it has very little to suggest a mass acceptance of peoples who behave and look different from ourselves. But hey, I could be wrong in that opinion.

Honestly, I'm not against migration. I think it's a wonderful thing for Ireland in certain cases. I have friends from Poland who have integrated extremely well, and contribute massively to their local area. I'm just skeptical of the claims for the benefits of unrestrained multiculturalism and the lack of planning for integration of cultures so greatly different from our own.

So skeptical you feel no compunction with casually equating your argument of "Western nations just pretend that there is an entry for migrants, but realistically, that only happens for those who look similar to the native people." with an arbitrary reference to 'not integrating'?

No - nobody with an ounce of cop-on thinks either Varadkar or Chu are foreigners living in this country - regardless of how different they look.

alastair

alastair wrote: »

So skeptical you feel no compunction with casually equating your argument of "Western nations just pretend that there is an entry for migrants, but realistically, that only happens for those who look similar to the native people." with an arbitrary reference to 'not integrating'?

Oh, I notice you're twisting what I've said, and making leaps in logic but, hey, that's fine.

No - nobody with an ounce of cop-on thinks either Varadkar or Chu are foreigners living in this country.

I'll mention that to my mother, since she feels that way about Varadkar.

You might be surprised just how many people haven't accepted him and others completely. You have. Fair enough. Your choice.

ArrBee

sk8erboii wrote: »

Im not even trolling. Why do you presume I used your post as a ‘platform’ ?

Thats an incredibly arrogant, egotistical take on someone pointing out your obvious cognitive dissonance of a forum post. (WHY DOESNT A REPRESSIVE AUTHORITARIAN STATE TREAT ME LIKE THE SPECIAL CITIZEN THAT I AM).

Mate China literally harvests organs from its own citizens. You could have 50 PHDs but this dissonance remains.

Why were you expecting to be treated like not a foreigner?

At the risk of copping unwarranted abuse, I'll try and answer what I took from Klaz's post.
Only because there's a chance you are genuine and really haven't understood what was said.

The thrust of much of what has been said is that here is a difference between a government and a population.
A government can hand out a passport and make someone a citizen.
But there is more to being "of a certain country" than having received both from the government.

I believe Klaz was using China as an example because (s)he knows more about china than other places, being resident there.
The point though can be applied anywhere.
What makes someone "of a place" has been put forward by various posters in various posts as some or all of the following.
-Look
-cultural awareness and understanding
-DNA heritage
-Actions and behaviors

When someone jumps in and says the reason someone is Japanese is because they have the passport. they are ignoring or disagreeing with the idea that there are other aspects that makes someone "of a country".

You can probably see why the discussion seems to cyclic!

person 1.
an australian is not irish just because they have a passport, they never grew up here and stand out like dogs bollocks. not knowing the way this culture and society work.

person 2.
but they have a passport.

Person 1.
Sure they do, but they don't dont have any of the other traits that makes one irish.

person 2.
But they have a passport, ya racist!

alastair

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, I notice you're twisting what I've said, and making leaps in logic but, hey, that's fine.

They're your words. Not sure how you imagine they've been twisted.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll mention that to my mother, since she feels that way about Varadkar.

You might be surprised just how many people haven't accepted him and others completely. You have. Fair enough. Your choice.

As have the electorate. Ever considered your mother is the outlier?

sk8erboii

sk8erboii wrote: »

Mate im a lot smarter than you that I can guarantee.

Define irony: A person who publicly states the above accusing another of being arrogant and egotistical.

Boggles

ArrBee wrote: »

an australian

......Sure they do, but they don't dont have any of the other traits that makes one irish.

What specific "traits" would that be?

At the 2011 Australian census, 2,087,800 residents identified themselves as having Irish ancestry either alone or in combination with another ancestry. This nominated ancestry was third behind English and Australian in terms of the largest number of responses and represents 10.4% of the total population of Australia.

alastair

Boggles wrote: »

What specific "traits" would that be?

I'm guessing it's something at odds with knifey-spoony?

I pity the poor Irish lads out in oz too - not knowing how the culture and society work.

Boggles

alastair wrote: »

I'm guessing it's something at odds with knifey-spoony?

I pity the poor Irish lads out in oz too - not knowing how the culture and society work.

It's not just Oz or Ireland.

I remember that time I went to a beer festival in Germany.

Stood out like a Dogs Testicles I did.

You see, I didn't have the actions, awareness or traits or something something....DNA....something something.

Wibbs

alastair wrote: »

Not too many Chinese candidates either in the UK - that doesn't mean people wouldn't vote for them if they did run.

Oh they well might. The Chinese diaspora trend towards doing better than the local populations wherever they are. EG in the US Chinese Americans have higher standards of living, education and salaries than European Americans.

Your desire to equate lower black numbers of MPs with a specific unwillingness on the part of voters to elect them is, again, rather revealing.

It is indeed, but necessarily not in the way you want it to.

The black population of the UK is around 4-5% so, in terms of representation, they fare far better than, say women - who form a majority of the electorate, but only a third of the House of Commons.

Worldwide in democracies women tend to vote more than men, so that's a subject in of itself.

But then, you've made your particular perspective clear enough:

And you keep banging that single untuned drum like an automaton. It's almost as if it's the only instrument you have to play.

Wibbs

Boggles wrote: »

It's not just Oz or Ireland.

I remember that time I went to a beer festival in Germany.

Stood out like a Dogs Testicles I did.

You see, I didn't have the actions, awareness or traits or something something....DNA....something something.

Unless you're of Arab or African extraction where your experiences might be a little different.

alastair

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh they well might. The Chinese diaspora trend towards doing better than the local populations wherever they are. EG in the US Chinese Americans have higher standards of living, education and salaries than European Americans. It is indeed, but necessarily not in the way you want it to. Worldwide in democracies women tend to vote more than men, so that's a subject in of itself.

And you keep banging that single untuned drum like an automaton. It's almost as if it's the only instrument you have to play.

And yet - you don't actually engage with the points made - The UK electorate 'might' vote for Chinese candidates, but the small number of Chinese MP's doesn't suggest - to you - that there's a reluctance to vote for them - unlike - to you - the reluctance they have for black candidates. You've no idea how many of either ethnicity actually run for election, but no matter - you're happy to lazily assume there's a reluctance to vote for black candidates. Again this is about your biases, nothing more - and soundly supported by your doozy of a post that I'll keep beating on account of it's transparency.

Bobblehats

Boggles wrote: »

It's not just Oz or Ireland.

I remember that time I went to a beer festival in Germany.

Stood out like a Dogs Testicles I did.

You see, I didn't have the actions, awareness or traits or something something....DNA....something something.

2011 was it boggles :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWIVqfLeaRo

Boggles

Wibbs wrote: »

Unless you're of Arab or African extraction where your experiences might be a little different.

Do explain?

Please be concise, if you're able.

Wibbs

Boggles wrote: »

Do explain?

Please be concise, if you're able.

If you require an explanation on the differences between a Black/Brown man's and a White man's experiences in a majority White nation I really don't know what to say to you, concisely or not.

alastair

Wibbs wrote: »

If you require an explanation on the differences between a Black/Brown man's and a White man's experiences in a majority White nation I really don't know what to say to you, concisely or not.

I know it can't be great when they're faced with this sort of guff:

Again I note that when this "I'm Irish and you better believe it, or else you're a Wacist!!!" stuff comes up, it's almost always from darker skinned folks and usually Africans, you don't hear it nearly so much from lighter skinned Poles, Italians, Spaniards, Russians, Czechs, Latvians et al, even folks from the Middle East and China, no matter how long they've lived here or what passport they carry.

Boggles

Wibbs wrote: »

If you require an explanation on the differences between a Black/Brown man's and a White man's experiences in a majority White nation I really don't know what to say to you, concisely or not.

Well specifically a beer festival.

Coincidentally I was there with a non "White man", I guess.

He had the exact same experience as me, a lot of drinking, staggering and vomit. It seemed pretty universal, skin color wasn't a factor.

So do you want to continue telling me about my experience or will we leave it there?

TwoMonthsOff

Boggles wrote: »

Well specifically a beer festival.

Coincidentally I was there with a non "White man", I guess.

He had the exact same experience as me, a lot of drinking, staggering and vomit. It seemed pretty universal, skin color wasn't a factor.

So do you want to continue telling me about my experience or will we leave it there?

Where is your boy friend from?

Wibbs

alastair wrote: »

I know it can't be great when they're faced with this sort of guff:

And yet you can't disprove the same "guff" that is the only repetitive quiver in your bow.

But sure let's have an oul look straight from the horses mouth shall we? From one of our scarily numerous and overlapping NGO's no less. The Immigrant Council of Ireland.




So - and to save your copypasta fingers ever eager to click, again - where like I asked are the "lighter skinned Poles, Italians, Spaniards, Russians, Czechs, Latvians et al". There are over 100,000 Poles in Ireland alone, which is over four times the number of Africans. Over 30,000 Lithuanians, 20,000 Latvians, over 100,000 British, 12,000 Spaniards, 13,000 Brazilians, 10,000 Italians and so forth?

So my question, endlessly quoted by you, is at least a valid one to ask, one which you have not answered, only wheeled out in your consistent and vain attempt to foghorn frame any question around your multicultural politic as "Racist!!!".

Boggles

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

Where is your boy friend from?

Welcome to boards.

Wibbs

Boggles wrote: »

Coincidentally I was there with a non "White man", I guess.

We get it, you're great, a minor saint of colour blindness. You didn't answer my question. Maybe try asking a Black lad from Lambeth the difference. Hell, ask a Black lad from Balbriggan. Though as one Black guy I knew from Brighton in the UK noted after a while it's like tinnitus, annoying and occasionally painful, but mostly a background buzz in the back of his life.

It has long been bemusing and not a little surprising to me that among the most ardent supporters of multiculturalism and their on the surface laudable colour blindness a similar blindness often extends to the actual experiences that people of colour actually live through in their melting pot fantasy lands. Unless they need to wheel them out to shout "Racist!!!" of course.

ArrBee

Boggles wrote: »

What specific "traits" would that be?

While I was trying to paraphrase multiple posts by others in a way that might help shed light on the arguments being made, I personally have noticed a few traits that are uniquely Irish.

I don't see what good will come of me listing them though. It's more likely to derail the discussion.
You either agree that cultures have traits that make them distinct, or you don't.

If you don't agree then that's fine. we can agree to disagree.

alastair

Wibbs wrote: »

And yet you can't disprove the same "guff" that is the only repetitive quiver in your bow.
But sure let's have an oul look straight from the horses mouth shall we? From one of our scarily numerous and overlapping NGO's no less. The Immigrant Council of Ireland.

You're some tulip. You think there's something there supports your guff?