Housing and new people

Allinall

beejee wrote: »

Yes, that includes eu citizens changing to Irish citizenship.

Now it’s confirmed.

Your posts are full of ****e,

beejee

bubblypop wrote: »

But if you have 20 more containers that are quarter full.... Then you have lots of place to distribute that water.

Come on now. You're gas

El_Duderino 09

The solution seems obvious - build more houses.

Government money should be used, tax the bejaysus out of land that people are just sitting on instead of developing in areas that need houses.

If you really want to taje a "foreigners out" line, that's fine but it wouldn't solve the problem of too few houses. The solution is to build more houses. So OP, are you more interested in the foreigners part or the building houses part?

beejee

Allinall wrote: »

Now it’s confirmed.

Your posts are full of ****e,

Go on....

beejee

beejee wrote: »

There you go!

So to copy that logic, if a million extra people appeared in the country next week, handed thir papers.... And then the government is scratching it's head over "it's mostly locals taking up accommodation, no idea where the problem lies"

Come on!

But if a million extra people appeared next week, they wouldn't be entitled to citizenship?
There are rules you know!
So basically, you believe no one other than Irish people should be allowed to live in Ireland until every single person in the country owns their own home?
Is that what you believe?

touts

beejee wrote: »

I don't care about your feelings about right and wrong.

It's a numbers game here. Simple, right?

It is. And we can't afford to carry the dead weight Irish Welfare Class any more. If we are to have any hope we need the hard working "New Irish" to work and pay tax. If the welfare class want the new Irish kicked out so they can have their houses then I say solve the numbers game by deporting the welfare class instead.

beejee

beejee wrote: »

Come on now. You're gas

Just going along with your own weird comparison

beejee

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The solution seems obvious - build more houses.

Government money should be used, tax the bejaysus out of land that people are just sitting on instead of developing in areas that need houses.

If you really want to taje a "foreigners out" line, that's fine but it wouldn't solve the problem of too few houses. The solution is to build more houses. So OP, are you more interested in the foreigners part or the building houses part?

While that's great on paper, the problem is that they aren't going to build enough housing. They didn't do it any year you care to care to mention. Expecting anything different going forward is foolish.

However, there seems to be no problem with allowing immigration, every year is a successful year.

Put the two together, that's the problem.

marieholmfan

beejee wrote: »

I don't care about your feelings about right and wrong.

It's a numbers game here. Simple, right?

Simplistic anyway.

We could build all the houses we need easily. Varadkar won't do it.

beejee

bubblypop wrote: »

But if a million extra people appeared next week, they wouldn't be entitled to citizenship?
There are rules you know!
So basically, you believe no one other than Irish people should be allowed to live in Ireland until every single person in the country owns their own home?
Is that what you believe?

I can communicate with you no longer, I'm afraid. It's just too "much" for me

marieholmfan

beejee wrote: »

I can communicate with you no longer, I'm afraid. It's just too "much" for me

Beejee picks up his ball and goes home.

beejee

marieholmfan wrote: »

Simplistic anyway.

We could build all the houses we need easily. Varadkar won't do it.

Right. They won't or can't. What does it matter?

The fact remains that it is a problem that exists, right now, with every indication that it will continue.

marieholmfan

touts wrote: »

It is. And we can't afford to carry the dead weight Irish Welfare Class any more. If we are to have any hope we need the hard working "New Irish" to work and pay tax. If the welfare class want the new Irish kicked out so they can have their houses then I say solve the numbers game by deporting the welfare class instead.

Nope.

beejee

marieholmfan wrote: »

Beejee picks up his ball and goes home.

No. Beejee defends his intellect from the radiation of a person that can't even recognise an analogy, let alone understand one.

marieholmfan

beejee wrote: »

Right. They won't or can't. What does it matter?

The fact remains that it is a problem that exists, right now, with every indication that it will continue.

I thought you were taking your ball home ?

beejee

beejee wrote: »

While that's great on paper, the problem is that they aren't going to build enough housing. They didn't do it any year you care to care to mention. Expecting anything different going forward is foolish.

However, there seems to be no problem with allowing immigration, every year is a successful year.

Put the two together, that's the problem.

Ah OK
So you are talking about social / government housing.
At least be straight when you start a thread

Mrs OBumble

beejee wrote: »

I don't buy into that line of thought. It doesn't stand up to an ounce of scrutiny.

Who's looking after your granny in her nursing home?

beejee

beejee wrote: »

No. Beejee defends his intellect from the radiation of a person that can't even recognise an analogy, let alone understand one.

Oh I can understand exactly

corner of hells

Moredoch wrote: »

Any chance of getting a list of the jobs Irish people won't do?

Erm .

beejee

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh I can understand exactly

Ah well then, you're just playing the fool as opposed to being one. At least you're being honest

beejee

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Who's looking after your granny in her nursing home?

What if I told you they were Irish?

What if I told you they weren't?

Means nothing.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

So basically, you believe no one other than Irish people should be allowed to live in Ireland until every single person in the country owns their own home?
Is that what you believe?

Any chance of you answering this?

beejee

The solution and recognition of fitting an elephant into a shoe box, so far:

"Elephants are lovely"

"turn the shoebox into 20 smaller shoeboxes, then it'll be bigger"

Plenty of people voting for the idea, but not a whisper of how it makes any sense. Gas craic altogether, like a roundtable of Father Ted and Co

beejee

bubblypop wrote: »

Any chance of you answering this?

Why should I answer the difficult part of a problem, when ignorant boyo's play blind to the problem in the first place?

"what's the answer to this maths equation?

"but you can't see the equation!"

"nevertheless, give me an answer!"

The answer is 43, okay?

Lol!
You can't even tell us what exactly you are talking about!
All houses?
Should everyone in the country own their own home before we allow anyone from outside to live here?

Deub

beejee wrote: »

Why should I answer the difficult part of a problem, when ignorant boyo's play blind to the problem in the first place?

"what's the answer to this maths equation?

"but you can't see the equation!"

"nevertheless, give me an answer!"

The answer is 43, okay?

Because your logic is flawed. How come other countries manage it? Do they stop immigration? Do they stop children moving out of their parents house?

dxhound2005

There is no need to build a house for every new family. People die and existing property gets bought and sold. In 2001 there were 3.83 million people living here. In 2018 that had gone up to 4.83 million. And there are still over 200,000 empty houses.

beejee

bubblypop wrote: »

Lol!
You can't even tell us what exactly you are talking about!
All houses?
Should everyone in the country own their own home before we allow anyone from outside to live here?

You have, quite literally, stated a few posts back that you are being deliberately dumb.

Please stop.

caff

I think what the Op is saying means we need to take critical action. Close our borders and only let tourists in with full time chaparone to ensure they don't run off and become an illegal. Even business visitors will be chaparoned and tracked.
Then if the housing crisis is still in full swing we can implement a licence process for having children.
We can use North Korea and China as models for the above solutions.....

beejee

Deub wrote: »

Because your logic is flawed. How come other countries manage it? Do they stop immigration? Do they stop children moving out of their parents house?

You may have noticed quite the common trend across many countries within the same time period. These problems are not unique to Ireland. In other words, no, they don't "manage it".

The obvious now said, if all other countries were bursting into flames, that is no excuse to not be concerned with your OWN country bursting into flames.

Yamanoto

the dark phantom wrote: »

Its not foreigners that made a hames of the planning policies in Ireland that sees us in the situation we are in regarding housing.

No it's not, but an immigration boom and resultant growth in population at a time of already rapidly accelerating house prices does factor in exacerbating a chronic infrastructural problem.

izzyflusky

Still waters wrote: »

If you bought it and are paying for it you're not a burden, if you're on the dole and getting rent supplement and child support without giving anything back, then yes you're a massive burden. I don't think the OP was referring to people like you but you know that already and choose to be obtuse about it

Well, last I've heard from one of those "new Irish" was that they had to prove that they had not been in receipt of any social welfare in order to obtain their new passport. It may be different for asylum seekers, I don't know.

And no I didn't. See my previous paragraph.

Deub

beejee wrote: »

You may have noticed quite the common trend across many countries within the same time period. These problems are not unique to Ireland. In other words, no, they don't "manage it".

The obvious now said, if all other countries were bursting into flames, that is no excuse to not be concerned with your OWN country bursting into flames.

What are those countries that don’t manage it?

beejee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is no need to build a house for every new family. People die and existing property gets bought and sold. In 2001 there were 3.83 million people living here. In 2018 that had gone up to 4.83 million. And there are still over 200,000 empty houses.

But nobody wants to live in dilapidated sheds on fuchaill island. Immigrants included.

So we have the same amount of "economically viable" housing as before, just now with more people.

Hence prices go up and up as more compete for less.

I just can't get my head around the willful ignorance here, it's amazing really

beejee

Deub wrote: »

What are those countries that don’t manage it?

Britain, France, Germany, USA, Canada.... Look, the costs of housing has dramatically risen in areas of high immigration. I don't consider exorbitant costs, rents, rising homelessness etc to be "managing it"

Here's a much tougher nut to crack for you. Tell me about all the countries that have high immigration that DONT have huge associated costs.

I answered you, you answer me, please.

izzyflusky

beejee wrote: »

Of course it's an additional problem.

"you think there's too many people?! But have you considered all these EXTRA people like me too?!"

I'll pack my bags and leave so...Good luck getting sick in future though. The health system is already in shambles and unable to recruit as it is, but let's send all those foreigners and "new Irish" back to where they came from XD.

Galwayguy35

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Someone's got do the jobs that old Irish won't do.

Rubbish.

Who do you think did the work here before immigration took off around 15 years ago.

dxhound2005

beejee wrote: »

But nobody wants to live in dilapidated sheds on fuchaill island. Immigrants included.

So we have the same amount of "economically viable" housing as before, just now with more people.

Hence prices go up and up as more compete for less.

I just can't get my head around the willful ignorance here, it's amazing really

That is incorrect. The housing stock increased by over 200,000 units.

Mules

It's not just housing, the health service and schools are adversely affected by an increasing population. An increased population is grand once the government increases investment in services to accommodate it. The government does not want to do this. With all the talk about housing and health crises I don't know why no one acknowledges the obvious effects immigration has on them. It seems it hasn't even occured to some.

Also, despite what they claim the government has built very few new houses. When they talk about increasing the housing stock they are overwhelmingly talking about rental properties that take hap. Instead of building social housing they prefer to rent housing from the private sector. Seeing as this costs more than building social housing and the state doesn't aquire the asset it's an odd mindset. Seems more like a philosophy than practicality.

dxhound2005

Mules wrote: »

It's not just housing, the health service and schools are adversely affected by an increasing population. An increased population is grand once the government increases investment in services to accommodate it. The government does not want to do this. With all the talk about housing and health crises I don't know why no one acknowledges the obvious effects immigration has on them. It seems it hasn't even occured to some.

If you take your lead from "all the talk" you will conclude that anyone who deals with the health service is going to have an awful experience. My own experience and that of family members has been fine.

Deub

beejee wrote: »

Britain, France, Germany, USA, Canada.... Look, the costs of housing has dramatically risen in areas of high immigration. I don't consider exorbitant costs, rents, rising homelessness etc to be "managing it"

Here's a much tougher nut to crack for you. Tell me about all the countries that have high immigration that DONT have huge associated costs.

I answered you, you answer me, please.

Sure. France for instance. It is my home country and I go there several times per year. I also read the news daily.
You are mentioning exorbitant cost, rents, rising homelessness but strangely I don’t read articles about a housing crisis.
I visit friends in Paris and no mention of the housing crisis. French people easily complains and manifests so if it was a major issue as you say, I should see it but I don’t.

beejee

izzyflusky wrote: »

I'll pack my bags and leave so...Good luck getting sick in future though. The health system is already in shambles and unable to recruit as it is, but let's send all those foreigners and "new Irish" back to where they came from XD.

Oh no, please don't!

I remember the bad old days of pre-mass immigration. Sure we didn't know what a hospital was till some philanthropist builders left their own utopias to build them for us.
And sure then, after they immediately left, all we had were bare walls to look at lick the thicko's we were. Lo and behold, more philanthropists left their own utopian countries to demonstrate what a "doctor" was. And then they told us about these things called "nurses"!

And sure, didn't those same philanthropists decide to stay in this backward country to help us wipe our own holes too!

God's gift, really. Sure 1999 may as well have been the stone age in this crap country that you so selflessly decided to help, and stay in, and not go back to that brilliant place that couldn't hold onto you.

I'm sure your family will learn to accept our backward ways as they go to our backward schools and backward hospitals and backward transport and be surrounded by our backward people.

Thank you for your selfless sacrifice.



Edit: okay, that's a bit mean-spirited of a reply. But I don't like people telling me, essentially, that "you owe me for this big favour", despite the fact that it was all done to help themselves. You know what I mean?

Mules

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you take your lead from "all the talk" you will conclude that anyone who deals with the health service is going to have an awful experience. My own experience and that of family members has been fine.

I take my lead as someone who frequently uses the health service

TwoMonthsOff

Deub wrote: »

Sure. France for instance. It is my home country and I go there several times per year. I also read the news daily.
You are mentioning exorbitant cost, rents, rising homelessness but strangely I don’t read articles about a housing crisis.
I visit friends in Paris and no mention of the housing crisis. French people easily complains and manifests so if it was a major issue as you say, I should see it but I don’t.

I must have imagined all those immigrants living in tents in the centre of Paris.

beejee

Deub wrote: »

Sure. France for instance. It is my home country and I go there several times per year. I also read the news daily.
You are mentioning exorbitant cost, rents, rising homelessness but strangely I don’t read articles about a housing crisis.
I visit friends in Paris and no mention of the housing crisis. French people easily complains and manifests so if it was a major issue as you say, I should see it but I don’t.

Well, I know France fairly well, not an awful lot. But it's housing costs in economically attractive places are also insanely expensive.

Perhaps it's not so publicised as here, with specific regard to housing. But maybe it's because Ireland is so much smaller that such basics as housing become more prominent.

So, I'll still stand by my comment that areas of high immigration are very, very expensive. Stating the obvious. France is no different. Whereas the question I asked was....

... Name a country that has high immigration and does NOT have such very high costs.

That goes to the heart of my original question, basically "is there a strong connection between immigration and housing costs?"

I'm not convinced by your answer, but I appreciate you trying

Spanish Eyes

Just keep an eye on what's happening in UK right now. Brexit, Tories, keep the EU immigrants out. All good and all that.

Mules

Talking about the nursing home carer jobs that were mentioned up thread as a job that Irish people won't do. I visit different nursing homes as part of my job. You can always spot one with decent working conditions because it will have mostly Irish staff. On the other hand the ones that dodge HIQA staffing regulations can only attract foreign workers. So, ime it's not that there are jobs that Irish won't do, it's that there are places they won't work. It seems to be asking too much of employers to provide decent working conditions:rolleyes:

dxhound2005

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just keep an eye on what's happening in UK right now. Brexit, Tories, keep the EU immigrants out. All good and all that.

English people won't do seasonal farm work. There was a steady supply of workers from EU countries in Eastern Europe. But not enough of them are coming following the Brexit vote. So the UK made new rules to allow workers in from non EU countries like Russia, Ukraine and Moldova. You couldn't make it up.

So, basically, after reading the OPs posts, he doesn't want anyone living in Ireland, except whoever he decides is Irish.
He won't answer questions so that's the only assumption.

Captain Red Beard

Threads like this demonstrate why the forum needs to have down voting enabled.