Housing and new people

Junkyard Tom

ArchXStanton wrote: »

its going to have an impact on services

Positively or negatively? People that move here are normally young, healthy, and motivated.

I'm not an 'open borders' idiot by the way. I've little doubt that inward immigration is good for business, but I don't think there's much evidence that our levels of immigration negatively affects services.

SharonMcDougal

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Positively or negatively? People that move here are normally young, healthy, and motivated.

I'm not an 'open borders' idiot by the way. I've little doubt that inward immigration is good for business, but I don't think there's much evidence that our levels of immigration negatively affects services.

Hop on a luas at rush hour and tell me they're not negatively impacted.

TwoMonthsOff

SharonMcDougal wrote: »

Hop on a luas at rush hour and tell me they're not negatively impacted.

That's somebody else's fault.

Patrick2010

What I find interesting is that almost one in five believes that the number of people arriving in the country has no connection with the amount of housing required to house everyone living here.

corner of hells

Mules wrote: »

Interestingly the central bank is now saying that new houses have to be built. The government has no interest in what the average person thinks but they do have an interest in the opinions of the central bank.

It's a report they've issued calculating the amount if houses needed to be built over a period of years ,the bank recommends a figure based on a need , I.e. net inward immigration.

I think its solely a recommendation.

Jinglejangle69

Mules wrote: »

Interestingly the central bank is now saying that new houses have to be built. The government has no interest in what the average person thinks but they do have an interest in the opinions of the central bank.

23,000
Houses built this year.

What are you even waffling about?

Jinglejangle69

marieholmfan wrote: »

Just build the ****ing houses.
Why can we have council houses in Derry but in Dundalk the government pays rent for you to a private landlord.

Eh I’m pretty sure there is council houses in Dundalk and currently been built.

kravmaga

Padre_Pio wrote: »

For a nation of 5 million people that claims a diaspora of 50 million, it seems hypocritical to not like immigrants.

Ireland as in the entire island is 6.6 million population.

Back in the 1830's it was 8 million.

So we have lots of room in the country for more immigrants.

Patrick2010

kravmaga wrote: »

Ireland as in the entire island is 6.6 million population.

Back in the 1830's it was 8 million.

So we have lots of room in the country for more immigrants.

Not this crap again

tonycascarino

kravmaga wrote: »

Ireland as in the entire island is 6.6 million population.

Back in the 1830's it was 8 million.

So we have lots of room in the country for more immigrants.

We don't have any more room and they are not needed, especially not the unskilled fake refugee types we have coming in here on a regular basis. The drawbridge needs to be pulled up.

corner of hells

tonycascarino wrote: »

We don't have any more room and they are not needed, especially not the unskilled fake refugee types we have coming in here on a regular basis. The drawbridge needs to be pulled up.

Cascarino ? Chippers or Icecream making Italians- skilled.

Anyway the drawbridge must be motherfcukin' big.

Phoebas

enricoh wrote: »

A 'big bunch' of new Irish have adapted quite well to our welfare state.
Fingal housing list had over half non Nationals in 2011, they no longer give a breakdown of numbers. (For some unknown reason!)

New Irish aren't non Nationals - they're Irish.

NIMAN

marieholmfan wrote: »

Why can we have council houses in Derry but in Dundalk the government pays rent for you to a private landlord.

Interesting that you use Derry as an example of things being done well, when it isn't.

https://www.derrynow.com/news/home/500411/thousands-declared-homeless-across-derry.html



"Almost 3,000 families and individuals are homeless in the Derry and Strabane area .... "

" From 1 April 2019 to 30 September 2019 there were a total of 8,750 households which presented as homeless across Northern Ireland ... "

Padre_Pio

tonycascarino wrote: »

We don't have any more room and they are not needed, especially not the unskilled fake refugee types we have coming in here on a regular basis. The drawbridge needs to be pulled up.

On who?
All immigrants?
What about Irish returning home? They're putting as much strain on things as someone coming from the UK or Brazil.

Are there good immigrants and bad immigrants? How should future inward migration be allocated?

I find it highly hypocritical that people say immigrant cause a strain on services when Immigrants are likely working in said services.

Every second person on a building site during the boom was Eastern European. Half the healthcare staff are from Asian and Africa.

Mules

That's housing units provided, not houses built. I suggest you educate yourself on analysing statistics before you quote them.

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

23,000
Houses built this year.

What are you even waffling about?

Mules

Patrick2010 wrote: »

What I find interesting is that almost one in five believes that the number of people arriving in the country has no connection with the amount of housing required to house everyone living here.

It's odd. You'd think the connection would be obvious.

Yurt2

Phoebas wrote: »

New Irish aren't non Nationals - they're Irish.

I've genuinely met a 'new Irish' Irish passport wielding individual who barely spoke a lick of English, so much so I conducted the conversation in their native tounge, which I just so happened to have a grasp of. I don't know how they managed it, but they're out there. I'll be honest, I didn't consider that gentleman Irish in any real sense. In fact, another non-Irish person I know who I'd consider far more worthy of citizenship but is struggling to do so was quite bitter that he had a passport.There are of course many more who I'd gladly consider Irish.

I have no objection to people becoming naturalised once they have displayed a commitment to society and our way of life, but we should adopt some standards. A Danish style citizenship test wouldn't be a bad idea.

ChikiChiki

IAMAMORON wrote: »

In summary this is an inward immigration bash.

It's not. We don't have the infrastructure to cope with inward immigration. We should review policy in the area and even consider slowing it down drastically, certainly to acceptable levels. Skilled migrants etc.

There is nothing racist about that. It is calling it as it is.

RayCon

kravmaga wrote: »

Ireland as in the entire island is 6.6 million population.

Back in the 1830's it was 8 million.

So we have lots of room in the country for more immigrants.

You might want to read up on the standard of living for the majority of those 8 million.

Yamanoto

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I find it highly hypocritical that people say immigrant cause a strain on services when Immigrants are likely working in said services.

Every second person on a building site during the boom was Eastern European. Half the healthcare staff are from Asian and Africa.

The NHS has long been heavily reliant on the contribution of immigrants, but you'd be hard pressed to argue it in any way mitigates the enormous drain on the exchequer from providing services to non-EEA nationals in the UK.

University College London Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/european-immigrants-contribute-5bn-to-uk-economy-but-non-eu-migrants-cost-118bn-9840170.html

Between 1995 and 2011, immigrants from outside the EU made a negative contribution of £118 billion over 17 years, the report found, using more publicly-funded services, including the NHS, education and benefits, than they paid in tax.

ChikiChiki

ChikiChiki wrote: »

consider slowing it down drastically, certainly to acceptable levels. Skilled migrants etc.

There is nothing racist about that. It is calling it as it is.

So we have the infrastructure for skilled migrants?

Padre_Pio

Yamanoto wrote: »

The NHS has long been heavily reliant on the contribution of immigrants, but you'd be hard pressed to argue it in any way mitigates the enormous drain on the exchequer from providing services to non-EEA nationals in the UK.

University College London Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/european-immigrants-contribute-5bn-to-uk-economy-but-non-eu-migrants-cost-118bn-9840170.html

And the next line of this article:

But native Britons also received more than they contributed in the same 17-year period – amounting to a cost of £591 billion as the national deficit grew

Jonathan Portes, the director of the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, said: “This confirms once again that the increase in immigration to the UK ...has benefited UK citizens. Ministers and politicians from all sides ought to look at the evidence before seeking to restrict free movement of workers.”

Did you even read the rest of the article, or just the part that supported your view.

Yurt2

High volume immigration does indeed produce modest increases in headline GDP - but the benefits do not of course accrue to all the population equally.

If you are a blue collar or semi-skilled worker (who cares about them right?) your bargaining power decreases and wage inflation remains weak. More people competing for rental properties (and eventually purchasing property) and state services.

If you are a business owner that requires inexhaustible ever cheaper labour, or are a property owner listing an apartment or house - happy days all round.

'America's leading immigration economist' (not my words) of Harvard says as much...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/trump-clinton-immigration-economy-unemployment-jobs-214216

You can't take headline GDP figures to a bank manager for a mortgage or pay for kids schoolbooks with them.

friendlyfun

Yurt! wrote: »

I've genuinely met a 'new Irish' Irish passport wielding individual who barely spoke a lick of English, so much so I conducted the conversation in their native tounge, which I just so happened to have a grasp of. I don't know how they managed it, but they're out there. I'll be honest, I didn't consider that gentleman Irish in any real sense. In fact, another non-Irish person I know who I'd consider far more worthy of citizenship but is struggling to do so was quite bitter that he had a passport.There are of course many more who I'd gladly consider Irish.

I have no objection to people becoming naturalised once they have displayed a commitment to society and our way of life, but we should adopt some standards. A Danish style citizenship test wouldn't be a bad idea.

!
One of my friends has an Irish accent and hasn't citizenship. He's spent most of his life here too!

Yurt2

friendlyfun wrote: »

!
One of my friends has an Irish accent and hasn't citizenship. He's spent most of his life here too!

I'd imagine he'd pass any immigration test with flying colours. The bozo I met who was in Ireland the bones of a decade hanging out exclusively with his ethnic community and genuinely couldn't string a coherent sentence in English together, not so much.

tjhook

Do our public representatives have any actual planning or policy in this area? I haven't seen it. I suppose it could be viewed as "racist", so must be avoided. But surely it wouldn't be difficult?

1. Decide what population would be right for Ireland in the next X years. This involves looking at:
- How much change in population would best benefit Irish society
- What population would most benefit the economy
- what population will best enable business (not necessarily the same as what will benefit the overall economy)

2. Once that is decided, look at the current population and the expected change in population that cannot be controlled by the state. E.g. the state can't control births/deaths, or emigration out of the state, or immigration to which we are legally bound (e.g. from within the EU or asylum seekers)

Now we have a target for additional "discretionary" immigration in the coming X years.
As a bonus, we will know how much additional housing, transport and public services need to be provided in that period. If such provision cannot be met, then something is wrong. Either improve service provision, or reduce discretionary immigration.

Of course, this may require having an actual policy. How should we decide which non-EU people enter and which don't? I suppose it could be a points system, as many other countries do. Or a lottery. Or first-come-first-served. Either way, at least it's planned, and openly discussed.

Markcheese

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

Just that we cant house the citizens we already have.

Can't ?
Or won't? (or just can't get it together and won't cos it involves actually doing something....)

Mr. teddywinkles

kravmaga wrote: »

Ireland as in the entire island is 6.6 million population.

Back in the 1830's it was 8 million.

So we have lots of room in the country for more immigrants.

Yep so rational. Ya do realise ya live in the 21 century now. We cant live 20 to a 1 room cottage any more. Not to even mention rest of requirements to live comfortably.

X111111111111

tjhook wrote: »

Do our public representatives have any actual planning or policy in this area? I haven't seen it. I suppose it could be viewed as "racist", so must be avoided. But surely it wouldn't be difficult?

1. Decide what population would be right for Ireland in the next X years. This involves looking at:
- How much change in population would best benefit Irish society
- What population would most benefit the economy
- what population will best enable business (not necessarily the same as what will benefit the overall economy)

2. Once that is decided, look at the current population and the expected change in population that cannot be controlled by the state. E.g. the state can't control births/deaths, or emigration out of the state, or immigration to which we are legally bound (e.g. from within the EU or asylum seekers)

Now we have a target for additional "discretionary" immigration in the coming X years.
As a bonus, we will know how much additional housing, transport and public services need to be provided in that period. If such provision cannot be met, then something is wrong. Either improve service provision, or reduce discretionary immigration.

Of course, this may require having an actual policy. How should we decide which non-EU people enter and which don't? I suppose it could be a points system, as many other countries do. Or a lottery. Or first-come-first-served. Either way, at least it's planned, and openly discussed.

Racist is just a term big business, IBEC and the government throw out to stop people from asking pertinent questions about the nations direction.

Mad_maxx

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I've been in 3 different hospitals the last couple of weeks, trips with both parents and one myself and its impossible not to notice the amount of non Irish attending these places, I said it to the woman at reception in the waiting area as she was taking my details that it seemed crazy busy and she told me oh that's nothing, there was a line out the door the previous day to which I jokingly replied it seems like a UN meeting... "don't even get me started on that" was her response.

In my opinion the social contract between the Irish people and its government is basically non existent nowadays

I've been through A+E three times in the past month, twice with my three year old son.

There was as usual a plague of travellers but not too many recognisable foreign nationals bar the staff

Berserker

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Yep so rational. Ya do realise ya live in the 21 century now. We cant live 20 to a 1 room cottage any more. Not to even mention rest of requirements to live comfortably.

I agree with you wholeheartedly but that is they way things are heading in Dublin, oddly and sadly enough. Some of the stories I am hearing from people renting in work are unbelievable. One of the lads shares a three bed with seven other people.