Sports/cycling awards (split off from Sam Bennett thread)

brocbrocach

eeeee wrote: »

I would say that Katie George and Eve do the same sport as Dan, Sam et al, but with much, much less support, almost no pathway and with much better results.

I couldn't agree with that. They're only the same in that their respective sports involve riding bicycles. For this same reason I've very little interest in what Felix English does on a track but was interested in his results when he raced on the road.

velo.2010

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Where do you want the debate to go. I say you’re doing one thing. You say you’re not. If you insist that’s your take on it then I see no point in continuing the debate. It’s going to get shut down by mods soon enough anyway it’s gone on so long.

You’ve already told me I was out of order to suggest something. Now you’re saying I’m a smart arse. Not sure where else the debate can go except more name calling.

I'm happy to draw a line.

We've gone way off the thread topic.

I hope Bennett can succeed at DQS next season, pick up a couple of Tour stages.

magicbastarder

sure phil gaimon should get an honourable mention for monstering the KOM on howth?

eeeee

brocbrocach wrote: »

I couldn't agree with that. They're only the same in that their respective sports involve riding bicycles. For this same reason I've very little interest in what Felix English does on a track but was interested in his results when he raced on the road.

They compete in road racing and tt's, which are the same disciplines as the Male, able bodied pros it's literally the exact same discipline.
Track is a different discipline to road, but Katie George and Eve compete mainly in road and tt!

CramCycle

Is this like the UK one where it is personality as well as attributes that are considered, or are they trying to claim that they can define who is the best competitive athlete in the country?

velo.2010

CramCycle wrote: »

Is this like the UK one where it is personality as well as attributes that are considered, or are they trying to claim that they can define who is the best competitive athlete in the country?

My understanding is that RTE's award was judged by a panel for many years and then went to a public vote (which I incorrectly though was still the case). McGregor won the public vote in 2016, ahead of many Rio Olympic/Para medalists, and to some disgust of many in the studio that night.

It then reverted back to a panel selection. Make of that what you will.

CramCycle

velo.2010 wrote: »

My understanding is that RTE's award was judged by a panel for many years then went to a public vote (which I incorrectly though was still the case). McGregor won the public vote in 2016, ahead of many Rio Olympic/Para medalists, and to some disgust of many in the studio that night.

It then reverted back to a panel selection. Make of that what you will.

The main flaw with democracy is the people who vote

velo.2010

CramCycle wrote: »

The main flaw with democracy is the people who vote

Oh man, we need another thread for that!

Junior

velo.2010 wrote: »

Oh man, we need another thread for that!

Back to feudalism I say, where your Count votes.

brocbrocach

eeeee wrote: »

They compete in road racing and tt's, which are the same disciplines as the Male, able bodied pros it's literally the exact same discipline.
Track is a different discipline to road, but Katie George and Eve compete mainly in road and tt!

Sorry I should've been much clearer there, managed to distract my own train of thought! I admit I thought McCrystal and Dunleavy were mainly track, though I know Eve McCrystal is a good road cyclist in her own right.
The cycling that Sam and Dan etc compete in is different to the paralympic one in that it has a broad multinational following that is happy to spend time and money on it and a much much much wider base of competition. That changes everything, from hours available to train to base level needed to compete and win. Apart from that, the random element involved with both the paralympian and the pilot selection makes it a completely different sport.

eeeee

brocbrocach wrote: »

Sorry I should've been much clearer there, managed to distract my own train of thought! I admit I thought McCrystal and Dunleavy were mainly track, though I know Eve McCrystal is a good road cyclist in her own right.
The cycling that Sam and Dan etc compete in is different to the paralympic one in that it has a broad multinational following that is happy to spend time and money on it and a much much much wider base of competition. That changes everything, from hours available to train to base level needed to compete and win. Apart from that, the random element involved with both the paralympian and the pilot selection makes it a completely different sport.

The competition at international level in para sport is extremely high. And the stoker pilot selection isn't random - in fact getting that relationship right is am art, and a good partnership is greater than the sum of its parts. It requires an awful lot more skill than just a solo bike, and the tactics and nature of the sport is exactly the same- road racing and tt's are the same with a solo and tandem bike!
Also the women had to go full time to win at Olympic level, they continue to dominate at world level despite not always having the luxury of this, although to the best of my knowledge Katie George is a full time athlete, she's certainly carded.
I think the trust she has to have on Eve is something else. The speeds they do, the courses they compete on, Katie George has to give total trust over to Eve. It's kind of incredible.

Anyway, it's a much bigger achievement in my eyes than the lesser success of someone the sport is built around supporting's success iykwim.
There isn't a single easy won European, world or Olympic medal out there regardless of the sport involved!

harringtonp

Suggest one of the mods loft the whole discussion on the awards and create a separate thread