Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2019/2020

whatawaster

Harry Palmr wrote: »

If Liverpool still have this three on the books in four years it'll be a miracle. They won't allow this team to grow old together.

Start this summer by buying Jadon Sancho or Timo Werner

MonkeyTennis

Bobby Duncans move to Sunderland is off .

LuckyLloyd

gimli2112 wrote: »

To be fair we didn't really expect to be in a title race and by the time we realized it, it was over. I do remember thinking before the Chelsea game we really could win this but don't remember thinking it before then. After Chelsea it was over.
It doesn't even rate in my top 5 crushing moments as a Liverpool fan.

That’s a weird rewrite of history imo.

We won 9 games on the trot between the Kolo Toure West Brom game and walking out to play City. Beating City that day put the league back into our own hands. After we beat City we had Norwich away, which was an edge of your seat 3 - 2 win. 11 wins in a row.

Our position walking out against Chelsea was that we just needed to avoid defeat - and then we’d have our last two games to win and we’d win the league. But make no mistake, the Chelsea game came off the back of a long run where we were very much competing for the title and put ourselves in front after City were beaten.

My enduring memory of the Chelsea game is not Gerrard’s mistake; but Mourinho delaying us taking a throw in within the first 20 minutes and our players getting upset by it. We should have sat back, been cautious and allowed the game to come to us give a draw was all we needed. Instead we surrendered to the atmosphere and occasion and were manically trying to push the pace as if our lives depended on it. Gerrard being in that position with centre backs and fullbacks pushed up away from us was symptomatic of our approach on the day. We got it wrong.

==============

Ultimately the 2009 and 2014 teams were very good teams and if they had been more fortunate their points totals would have been good enough. In that sense they were somewhat unlucky, but it must also be noted that they were flawed teams borne of flawed regimes.

Benitez’s team did struggle to break down opponents who sat in; Rodger’s team could not defend effectively. Under Benitez the board and ownership structure were not capable of offering the necessary support to keep a challenge going over multiple seasons. Rodgers never had the wherewithal in the transfer market to handle the departure of Suarez.

Under Klopp, there are no weaknesses at this stage. There is complete cohesiveness at the club from top to bottom and a team willing to die for each other on the field. Losing the league on 97 points following on from a bitter European Cup Final defeat were twists of fate so much worse than what befell the 2009 and 2014 sides but everything at the club was a million times more robust and aligned.

We are going to win the title, win it in fine style and it will be completely and utterly deserved. There was no luck required, eventually Liverpool got to the only place that would set them free: the ability to win pretty much every game for long stretches. Eliminate any need for favours from others and take luck completely out of the equation.

.red.

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

Bobby Duncans move to Sunderland is off .

His forced move turned out worse than Coutihno's.
Maybe it's the foreign food in Italy that isn't suiting him.

8-10

Funny thing about that Chelsea game looking back now is that it was Salah's first PL start and first match at Anfield

citytillidie

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That’s a weird rewrite of history imo.

We won 9 games on the trot between the Kolo Toure West Brom game and walking out to play City. Beating City that day put the league back into our own hands. After we beat City we had Norwich away, which was an edge of your seat 3 - 2 win. 11 wins in a row.

Our position walking out against Chelsea was that we just needed to avoid defeat - and then we’d have our last two games to win and we’d win the league. But make no mistake, the Chelsea game came off the back of a long run where we were very much competing for the title and put ourselves in front after City were beaten.

My enduring memory of the Chelsea game is not Gerrard’s mistake; but Mourinho delaying us taking a throw in within the first 20 minutes and our players getting upset by it. We should have sat back, been cautious and allowed the game to come to us give a draw was all we needed. Instead we surrendered to the atmosphere and occasion and were manically trying to push the pace as if our lives depended on it. Gerrard being in that position with centre backs and fullbacks pushed up away from us was symptomatic of our approach on the day. We got it wrong.

==============

Ultimately the 2009 and 2014 teams were very good teams and if they had been more fortunate their points totals would have been good enough. In that sense they were somewhat unlucky, but it must also be noted that they were flawed teams borne of flawed regimes.

Benitez’s team did struggle to break down opponents who sat in; Rodger’s team could not defend effectively. Under Benitez the board and ownership structure were not capable of offering the necessary support to keep a challenge going over multiple seasons. Rodgers never had the wherewithal in the transfer market to handle the departure of Suarez.

Under Klopp, there are no weaknesses at this stage. There is complete cohesiveness at the club from top to bottom and a team willing to die for each other on the field. Losing the league on 97 points following on from a bitter European Cup Final defeat were twists of fate so much worse than what befell the 2009 and 2014 sides but everything at the club was a million times more robust and aligned.

We are going to win the title, win it in fine style and it will be completely and utterly deserved. There was no luck required, eventually Liverpool got to the only place that would set them free: the ability to win pretty much every game for long stretches. Eliminate any need for favours from others and take luck completely out of the equation.

What is also over looked is Chelsea were also in the hunt and were 8 points clear in March.

Harry Palmr

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Just seeing neither BT or the BBC have picked up the FA Cup game so no extra TV money for Shrewsbury.

They will get a small pick up for the international sales but it's only about 20k I think.

B_ecke_r

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Just seeing neither BT or the BBC have picked up the FA Cup game so no extra TV money for Shrewsbury.

Who else has a replay?

are there any stand out ties bigger than a potential giant killing @ Anfield ?

facehugger99

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

. We should have sat back, been cautious and allowed the game to come to us give a draw was all we needed.

Very easy to say this with the benefit of hindsight.

If we'd adopted your approach and lost the game, you'd have everyone castigating Rogers for changing our approach, why didn't we attack more? yadda, yadda, yadda.

LuckyLloyd

Ultimately the thing I’ve really learned the last couple of years is that no - one gives a **** about the nuances and misfortunes when you lose. You failed, someone else is celebrating and **** you.

I could talk for hours on how the 2009 and 2014 teams were unlucky; all the positives about them; the context around how they fell short. But Utd and City fans didn’t care. Just as City fans last year didn’t care. To the victors the spoils.

We are the winners this year; we have another European Cup under Klopp. I care not about City or Spurs fans or their problems or the context of their defeat. We beat their ****ing brains out and it’s glorious.

LuckyLloyd

facehugger99 wrote: »

Very easy to say this with the benefit of hindsight.

If we'd adopted your approach and lost the game, you'd have everyone castigating Rogers for changing our approach, why didn't we attack more? yadda, yadda, yadda.

It was ultimately proven that Rodgers didn’t have the tactical ability to change at that point in his career. People might have complained, but it was still the right approach. Trying to push the pace from the off and feeling under pressure to win the game was all wrong in terms of mindset.

citytillidie

B_ecke_r wrote: »

Who else has a replay?

are there any stand out ties bigger than a potential giant killing @ Anfield ?

BBC is showing Oxford V Newcastle, Liverpool would not change from Tuesday to Wednesday for BT, so BT are showing Spurs V Southampton.

Ken Tucky

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It was ultimately proven that Rodgers didn’t have the tactical ability to change at that point in his career. People might have complained, but it was still the right approach. Trying to push the pace from the off and feeling under pressure to win the game was all wrong in terms of mindset.

The failure was awful but what a ride it was..
Remember watching the City game in the Woolshed Parnell street. Amazing atmosphere and then floating to Croke park for a Dublin league final straight after it.
We didn't get there in the end but hell, it was some experience. Every game was insanely tense.

LuckyLloyd

Ken Tucky wrote: »

The failure was awful but what a ride it was..
Remember watching the City game in the Woolshed Parnell street. Amazing atmosphere and then floating to Croke park for a Dublin league final straight after it.
We didn't get there in the end but hell, it was some experience. Every game was insanely tense.

It was an amazing ride, which is why I found gimlii’s post strange. Before the Chelsea game I felt we would win the league. And I had been nervously railing each game following the destruction of Arsenal - that was the moment that you thought it might be possible.

But it may as well be a million years ago now. Hindsight is 20 : 20 but we can see the problems more clearly now than ever before. We weren’t good enough and we had to fully turn over that squad to become good enough.

I must say - and I know how petty it is - but beating Suarez and Couthino last May at Anfield was a cleansing moment.

LuckyLloyd

B_ecke_r wrote: »

Who else has a replay?

are there any stand out ties bigger than a potential giant killing @ Anfield ?

It’s not a giant killing. It’s a professional battle hardened league One team beating an U23 team, featuring teenagers. The TV companies know it’s weird and will be a difficult one to put into context.

gimli2112

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I must say - and I know how petty it is - but beating Suarez and Couthino last May at Anfield was a cleansing moment.

Coutinho had a great chance at 1-0 at Anfield. I only noticed/remembered it the other day when I was watching a rerun on VMS for about the fortieth time. What a bitter pill that would have been to swallow. His back looked fine he just mi**** it. (inappropriate reckless swear filter strikes again)

yourdeadwright

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It’s not a giant killing. It’s a professional battle hardened league One team beating an U23 team, featuring teenagers. The TV companies know it’s weird and will be a difficult one to put into context.

Do our under 23 have much of a chance of wining ?

It sounds harsh but Kelleher in goals means there probably not keeping a clean sheet,
Also there 3 CB are all big and physical I can't see our young forward causing them much problems,
I think our midfield will do well and could dominate that ball but I think they will be better in both boxes

5starpool

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It was an amazing ride, which is why I found gimlii’s post strange. Before the Chelsea game I felt we would win the league. And I had been nervously railing each game following the destruction of Arsenal - that was the moment that you thought it might be possible.

But it may as well be a million years ago now. Hindsight is 20 : 20 but we can see the problems more clearly now than ever before. We weren’t good enough and we had to fully turn over that squad to become good enough.

I must say - and I know how petty it is - but beating Suarez and Couthino last May at Anfield was a cleansing moment.

The atmosphere around and inside the ground before and during that game though was absolutely manic. I'm not sure the energy of the crowd allowed for the team to sit back and be mature, especially given how the previous couple of months had gone. It was a very different title challenge to last season in many ways.

LuckyLloyd

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Do our under 23 have much of a chance of wining ?

It sounds harsh but Kelleher in goals means there probably not keeping a clean sheet,
Also there 3 CB are all big and physical I can't see our young forward causing them much problems,
I think our midfield will do well and could dominate that ball but I think they will be better in both boxes

Betfair currently have it:

Liverpool 2.3
Shrewsbury 2.7
Draw 4.33

So the U23s are narrow favs. That market will obviously refine closer to kickoff, and there will be a qualifying market that is more indicative.

Harry Palmr

The games will be probably a bit like Villa - Liverpool will win the game between the 18 yard lines and lose it in both peno areas.

yourdeadwright

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The games will be probably a bit like Villa - Liverpool will win the game between the 18 yard lines and lose it in both peno areas.

I'm hoping cause we are home it'll give the lads more confidence that Villa came could have really dented there confidence in this one ,

Cartman78

Emre Can on his way to Dortmund it seems....another player who I'd thought would be a huge loss

MD1990

Van Den Berg & Kelleher starting means we concede at least 2 most likely.

yourdeadwright

MD1990 wrote: »

Van Den Berg & Kelleher starting means we concede at least 2 most likely.

Its a bit mental that at our club our size there the best two in there position in the youth set up ,

Van den berg makes mistake but he also looks good in parts
Kelleher mystifies me he's great with the ball at his feet but he never looks good at actually saving shots or coming for crosses ,

murpho999

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its a bit mental that at our club our size there the best two in there position in the youth set up ,

Van den berg makes mistake but he also looks good in parts
Kelleher mystifies me he's great with the ball at his feet but he never looks good at actually saving shots or coming for crosses ,

Can you please show me a player that does not make mistakes? Especially at U23 level?

I often find that there are bizarre expectations on players nowadays.

Meanaspie

6 wrote: »

Under a better manager that league was ours. Defence was abandoned that season.

I always think if Carra had stayed on one more year and not retired that would have been the difference that year

Harry Palmr

That Van den Berg played 11 senior games in the Eredivisie seems to have set up a level of expectation that was quite undeserved.

magma69

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its a bit mental that at our club our size there the best two in there position in the youth set up ,

Van den berg makes mistake but he also looks good in parts
Kelleher mystifies me he's great with the ball at his feet but he never looks good at actually saving shots or coming for crosses ,

What level of player exactly are you expecting? No club has a youth set up of solely wonderkids.

yourdeadwright

magma69 wrote: »

What level of player exactly are you expecting? No club has a youth set up of solely wonderkids.

I know but there is a huge gap between wonder kids and guys like Keheller and Van Dan Berg , There's lot of room in the middle for decent players for instance guys like Nat Phillips ,

yourdeadwright

murpho999 wrote: »

Can you please show me a player that does not make mistakes? Especially at U23 level?

I often find that there are bizarre expectations on players nowadays.

I wasn't actually putting Van Den Berg down at all I understand he will make mistakes at 17 ,

I was making the point with Kelleher its hard to see the good points ,

magma69

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I know but there is a huge gap between wonder kids and guys like Keheller and Van Dan Berg , There's lot of room in the middle for decent players for instance guys like Nat Phillips ,

Nat Phillips has almost 5 years on Van Der Berg. That's quite the experience disparity for a center back. Plough on anyways sure.

DrumSteve

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I wasn't actually putting Van Den Berg down at all I understand he will make mistakes at 17 ,

I was making the point with Kelleher its hard to see the good points ,

Kelleher is actually pretty good for his age; great distribution.

It's hard though to make an assessment when he was up against a full strength Villa side and is an understudy to the best in the world.

DVDM93

Match Day Programme for Southampton on Saturday;

https://en.calameo.com/read/00444971567dfcca9d9a3?authid=QCxDNQ8pMcCh&spMailingID=63042300&spUserID=OTkxNjA2MjQ1NjES1&spJobID=1804405249&spReportId=MTgwNDQwNTI0OQS2&fbclid=IwAR0El6AWHP9beJPORRYBPv1TDoL2hOsk1VDGHKJPxk-0WmCcoahsHBGQw3Q

MD1990

Williams at RB has been very impressive recently.

Quite similar to Trent in style of play.

yourdeadwright

magma69 wrote: »

Nat Phillips has almost 5 years on Van Der Berg. That's quite the experience disparity for a center back. Plough on anyways sure.

I wasn't directly comparing them ?

You asked do I expect everyone to be a wonder kid , I said no there is room in the middle for people to turn out like Nat

As iv stated with VDB you can see glimpses of a good player but with Kelleher I can't . Yes he can pass a ball well but his goal keeping is poor for me ,

MonkeyTennis

MD1990 wrote: »

Williams at RB has been very impressive recently.

Quite similar to Trent in style of play.

If things go well * cough cough* be nice to see him get a few starts towards the end of the season

Talisman

citytillidie wrote: »

What is also over looked is Chelsea were also in the hunt and were 8 points clear in March.

Agent Borini shot them down on match day 35 and opened the door for Liverpool in the following round of games. Chelsea dropped 5 points against Norwich and Sunderland either side of winning the game at Anfield. Had they won those two games, the would have won the league.

Luckycharms_74

Morzadec

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Betfair currently have it:

Liverpool 2.3
Shrewsbury 2.7
Draw 4.33

So the U23s are narrow favs. That market will obviously refine closer to kickoff, and there will be a qualifying market that is more indicative.

I was quite surprised to see that the U23s were narrow favourites. In my head I had it priced as Shrews being about 4/6 for the win.

As Harry mentions in the crucial areas they should have far more experience, and I could especially see them being far stronger on set pieces given what will surely be a physical disparity between the two teams.

Then again, having a look at the EFL trophy, it seems that some of the young age groups of the Premier League teams are able to compete with lower league teams (seems to be a mixed bag in terms of how they do). Though I'm not sure how seriously lower league teams take that trophy - I imagine Shrewsbury will be way more up for this FA Cup match than any EFL Trophy game

Muahahaha

gimli2112 wrote: »

To be fair we didn't really expect to be in a title race and by the time we realized it, it was over. I do remember thinking before the Chelsea game we really could win this but don't remember thinking it before then. After Chelsea it was over.
It doesn't even rate in my top 5 crushing moments as a Liverpool fan.

Seeing as we're top of the league by a country mile its a good as time as any to pick at some old scabs

Top 5
5. Having to watch players like Ngog, Konchesky and Diao. Awful scutter. Also special mention for the mess and circumstances behind the Balotelli transfer
4. 2017 Europe League final v.Seville and the second half collapse. Moreno having a laugh with his ex-team mates coming back out after half time and then 30 seconds later his concentration is gone and its back to 1-1, then 2-1 then 3. I still get angry at Moreno for his flea brained performance to this day
3- Michael Thomas' last minute goal for Arsenal to deny us the league, less said about that the better
2- The 2018 CL final, purely on the manner of the defeat. After weeks of build up Salah went off injured on 21 minutes and was replaced by an unfit Lallana. Then Karius gifts them two goals for free. Awful stuff.
1- Hodgson saying Liverpool are not too big for a relegation battle on MOTD after we were beaten 2-1 at Anfield by Blackpool and ended up in the bottom 3 for the first time in 40 years. Thats as low as its ever got for me.

Osmosis Jones

I've never watched a game in such horror as I did the 2018 CL Final. The Gerrard slip was bad but that was one moment followed by some ill-advised efforts to make up for it.

The 2018 Final was Salah's injury, followed by Karius literally bouncing it off Benzema into the goal, followed by Karius letting a 30 yard strike directly at him slip through his fingers.

yourdeadwright

Muahahaha wrote: »

Seeing as we're top of the league by a country mile its a good as time as any to pick at some old scabs

Top 5
5. Having to watch players like Ngog, Konchesky and Diao. Awful scutter. Also special mention for the mess and circumstances behind the Balotelli transfer
4. 2017 Europe League final v.Seville and the second half collapse. Moreno having a laugh with his ex-team mates coming back out after half time and then 30 seconds later his concentration is gone and its back to 1-1, then 2-1 then 3. I still get angry at Moreno for his flea brained performance to this day
3- Michael Thomas' last minute goal for Arsenal to deny us the league, less said about that the better
2- The 2018 CL final, purely on the manner of the defeat. After weeks of build up Salah went off injured on 21 minutes and was replaced by an unfit Lallana. Then Karius gifts them two goals for free. Awful stuff.
1- Hodgson saying Liverpool are not too big for a relegation battle on MOTD after we were beaten 2-1 at Anfield by Blackpool and ended up in the bottom 3 for the first time in 40 years. Thats as low as its ever got for me.

For me its 3 ,Final minute in our own stadium
We haven't won it since, What if Thomas missed ? Would football in the 90's have been different ? probably not ,

Bandana boy

yourdeadwright wrote: »

For me its 3 ,Final minute in our own stadium
We haven't won it since, What if Thomas missed ? Would football in the 90's have been different ? probably not ,

Won it the next year !

Ken Tucky

In football terms it has to be 88/89. Still dont know what Liverpool were up to that night. Should have just gone at Arsenal instead of the total cautious approach!
Still blame Kenny on that..

DrumSteve

Karius had a concussion did he not?

mosstin

Ken Tucky wrote: »

In football terms it has to be 88/89. Still dont know what Liverpool were up to that night. Should have just gone at Arsenal instead of the total cautious approach!
Still blame Kenny on that..

It's overlooked a bit - mostly because of the swashbuckling football of 87/88 - but Kenny was edging towards conservatism towards the end of his first reign here. I remember some games - Arsenal away for one - where we were clearly the better team but our set up left us vulnerable to a 1-0 defeat. That cost us in 1990/91.

Doff

I remember we were level on points with the likes of Norwich and Watford. Thankfully a lot has happened in the 6 months since that time.

super_furry

It's looking increasingly likely that, yet again, Liverpool will fail to sign Nuno Gomes.

Parry out.

Harry Palmr

One of the worst was 2008/09, Liverpool were top at Christmas by a point. Man Utd were 4th (4th!) a whole 6 points adrift, Liverpool went on that three draw run from hell as they were winning then they hit the buffers and Liverpool picked up, was this the chance? Was it feck! Just when Fergie needed a bail out he got one. Some fella no one had even heard of called Macheda giving Utd all the points against Villa having been 1-2 down - so from having the chance to go 2 points above to a one point deficit (and a game in hand for United) that was never bridged, and then the Arshavin match obviously. Its always the draws with Liverpool isn't it?

yourdeadwright

Bandana boy wrote: »

Won it the next year !

We sure did ,
I was thinking Thomas was 90-91 for some reason instead of 88-89
its been in my mind that way for years :eek: