Football Team of the decade

doc_17

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Donegal got the all stars in 2012 to reflect their All Ireland win. This is a team of the decade and Mayo have beaten Donegal 3 times in championship games. Donegal were also relegated to division 2 twice this decade.

The toughest province to win is the one with Dublin in it.

Which Dublin won every year bar one. Nothing Donegal, Mayo or Kerry can do about that. Mayo beat Donegal 3 times, but what did they win? Nothing. And how AOS can even be considered is hilarious. He goes missing in the the big games.

corny

blowitupref wrote: »

At the start of this decade (2011 to 2014) Higgins was a top defender worthy of his All stars but the last few years he's been a fading force in regards to defending.

Like the time James O'Donoghue turned him inside out but he still came away with credit? 2014 was it?

He was a top player who could play anywhere and look comfortable but best corner back 2010-2019...not a hope. Player i greatly admire though.

RedDevil55

doc_17 wrote: »

Which Dublin won every year bar one. Nothing Donegal, Mayo or Kerry can do about that. Mayo beat Donegal 3 times, but what did they win? Nothing. And how AOS can even be considered is hilarious. He goes missing in the the big games.

In a previous post you made the case for more Donegal players based on the fact they beat Jim Gavin's Dublin. In case you've forgotten that win also counted for nothing as Donegal flopped in the final.

jr86

corny wrote: »

Like the time James O'Donoghue turned him inside out but he still came away with credit? 2014 was it?

He was a top player who could play anywhere and look comfortable but best corner back 2010-2019...not a hope. Player i greatly admire though.

To be fair donoghue was as close to unplayable as you can get in 2014. That was actually a great battle that day, Higgins defended as well as he could I thought.

Ever since though he has been definitely declining defensively and I guess that does cover a sizeable chunk of the decade.

jr86

Hulk Hands wrote: »

How are you picking Mayo as the point of your outrage instead of Kerry? Kerry only had 2 in his 26 and are the clear second best performing county of the decade. It's a toss up for Donegal and Mayo for distant third

Not sure there's a whole lot between Kerry and Mayo. I know Kerry have an all Ireland win but that semi was a complete coin toss against Mayo. They were on an extremely similar level that year and probably for the two years after that until Mayo beat them in 2017

Kerry from 2010-2011 and 2018-19 were certainly better though, 2012 would have been close and 2013 was probably another one where mayo might have shaded it.

So overall Kerry win about 4 seasons, mayo 2 imo. 2012,14, 15,16 are all extremely tight.

corny

jr86 wrote: »

To be fair donoghue was as close to unplayable as you can get in 2014. That was actually a great battle that day, Higgins defended as well as he could I thought.

Yeah that was the narrative set by RTE on the day. I didn't agree then and i still don't now. O'Donoghue didn't score in the final. He wouldn't have got change out of Dublin either had they won the other semi. He never does.

Higgins' ball watching in the replay (and the first game) cost Mayo the game and it was completely ignored in the aftermath. Got one or two blocks in and everyone ignored the fact he gave his man acres of room to operate. O'Donoghue was all wrong for him because he's as lively as they come with his movement. A good corner back is diligent in controlling that though. That was never Keith Higgins.

Poor Ger Cafferkey was the only Mayo defender you were allowed criticise. The rest found praise (and All Stars) easy to come by.

doc_17

RedDevil55 wrote: »

In a previous post you made the case for more Donegal players based on the fact they beat Jim Gavin's Dublin. In case you've forgotten that win also counted for nothing as Donegal flopped in the final.

They beat the best team that ever played the game. And Mayo beat Pat Gilroy’s Dublin in 2012 semi and flopped in the final. So you’re arguing against yourself. Donegal won an AI and 5 Ulsters. However many anyone thinks they should have on it they deserve more than Mayo, less than Kerry.

Hulk Hands

jr86 wrote: »

Not sure there's a whole lot between Kerry and Mayo. I know Kerry have an all Ireland win but that semi was a complete coin toss against Mayo. They were on an extremely similar level that year and probably for the two years after that until Mayo beat them in 2017

Kerry from 2010-2011 and 2018-19 were certainly better though, 2012 would have been close and 2013 was probably another one where mayo might have shaded it.

So overall Kerry win about 4 seasons, mayo 2 imo. 2012,14, 15,16 are all extremely tight.

Kerry gave them two right pastings this decade though. They both had one win versus each otger besides those, both after replays. Kerry way more consistent too in province, where Connacht was a basket case early and tough later in, the inverse was true of Munster. By every metric it's comfortably Kerry second really. Even at their lowest point, and one of Mayo's highs (2017), Kerry still drew them and were 2/5 to win the replay. Anyone can have a poor day out. And that's the only season you can really point to as Mayo being on top

The_Honeybadger

corny wrote: »

Yeah that was the narrative set by RTE on the day. I didn't agree then and i still don't now. O'Donoghue didn't score in the final. He wouldn't have got change out of Dublin either had they won the other semi. He never does.

Higgins' ball watching in the replay (and the first game) cost Mayo the game and it was completely ignored in the aftermath. Got one or two blocks in and everyone ignored the fact he gave his man acres of room to operate. O'Donoghue was all wrong for him because he's as lively as they come with his movement. A good corner back is diligent in controlling that though. That was never Keith Higgins.

Poor Ger Cafferkey was the only Mayo defender you were allowed criticise. The rest found praise (and All Stars) easy to come by.

JOD scored something like 2-3 v Dublin in a classic semi the previous year so I don’t know how you make out he never got change from Dublin

He played around the middle in a very different role in that 2014 final which is the main reason he didn’t score

RedDevil55

doc_17 wrote: »

They beat the best team that ever played the game. And Mayo beat Pat Gilroy’s Dublin in 2012 semi and flopped in the final. So you’re arguing against yourself. Donegal won an AI and 5 Ulsters. However many anyone thinks they should have on it they deserve more than Mayo, less than Kerry.

You're the one arguing with yourself by saying none of Mayo's wins count for anything but Donegal beating Dublin in 2014 does. Also, that 2014 Dublin team was not the greatest, Dublin were at their peak around 2017 vs Tyrone. In my opinion all wins in big championship games should count for something. Otherwise someone like Conor McManus could never be considered.

A few people are missing the point of team of the decade. It should reward players who perform consistently well over the 10 year period. Just because Kerry were strong throughout doesn't guaruntee them a quota of players on the team. Gooch was as good as anyone at the start of the decade but not throughout. Same with Clifford the last 2 years and O'Donoghue in 2014. Geaney and David Moran are the only 2 who could be considered really and even still they only had 3 or 4 excellent seasons. Nothing against Kerry, it just so happens they've had a big turnover in players the last few years.

doc_17

RedDevil55 wrote: »

You're the one arguing with yourself by saying none of Mayo's wins count for anything but Donegal beating Dublin in 2014 does. Also, that 2014 Dublin team was not the greatest, Dublin were at their peak around 2017 vs Tyrone. In my opinion all wins in big championship games should count for something. Otherwise someone like Conor McManus could never be considered.

A few people are missing the point of team of the decade. It should reward players who perform consistently well over the 10 year period. Just because Kerry were strong throughout doesn't guaruntee them a quota of players on the team. Gooch was as good as anyone at the start of the decade but not throughout. Same with Clifford the last 2 years and O'Donoghue in 2014. Geaney and David Moran are the only 2 who could be considered really and even still they only had 3 or 4 excellent seasons. Nothing against Kerry, it just so happens they've had a big turnover in players the last few years.

Absolutely agree with your second paragraph. It’s for that reason Paul Mannion would be ahead of Gooch. Paul Mannion didn’t make many people’s teams but he’d be on mine. So consistent.

dog_pig

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

JOD scored something like 2-3 v Dublin in a classic semi the previous year so I don’t know how you make out he never got change from Dublin

He played around the middle in a very different role in that 2014 final which is the main reason he didn’t score

The main reason he didn’t score was that Neil McGee was marking him. He outscored O’Donoghue as well didn’t he?

flasher0030

dog_pig wrote: »

The main reason he didn’t score was that Neil McGee was marking him. He outscored O’Donoghue as well didn’t he?

That's not the main reason. As the other poster pointed out, O'Donoghue played out around the half-forwards/midfield. Kerry management decided that he would be smothered out of it by the Donegal defensive system, if he stayed in the inside forward line. So they effectively game him the freedom of the park to take his marker on a little run-around and leave some space for Kieran Donaghy inside.

Alvin Holler

blowitupref wrote: »

At the start of this decade (2011 to 2014) Higgins was a top defender worthy of his All stars but the last few years he's been a fading force in regards to defending.

But even then he rarely marked the opposing team's best player. If he was a great defender he should have marked McFadden in 2012 or Brogan in 2013 instead of Cafferkey. Think Barrett started on O'Donoghue in 2014 semi and Higgins was switched onto him.

corny wrote: »

Higgins' ball watching in the replay (and the first game) cost Mayo the game and it was completely ignored in the aftermath.

Completely agree, his defending for this goal was so naive. Kerry were dead and buried and in hindsight this was Mayo's best chance at an all Ireland.

https://youtu.be/Nahyo1XLn5A

The_Honeybadger

flasher0030 wrote: »

That's not the main reason. As the other poster pointed out, O'Donoghue played out around the half-forwards/midfield. Kerry management decided that he would be smothered out of it by the Donegal defensive system, if he stayed in the inside forward line. So they effectively game him the freedom of the park to take his marker on a little run-around and leave some space for Kieran Donaghy inside.

That’s it exactly, he wasn’t in his familiar role closer to goal and was asked to be a ball carrier and creator. I can’t actually remember who was marking him in the day but I doubt it was McGee, surely he stayed closer to his own goal?

Hulk Hands

RedDevil55 wrote: »

A few people are missing the point of team of the decade. It should reward players who perform consistently well over the 10 year period. Just because Kerry were strong throughout doesn't guaruntee them a quota of players on the team. Gooch was as good as anyone at the start of the decade but not throughout. Same with Clifford the last 2 years and O'Donoghue in 2014. Geaney and David Moran are the only 2 who could be considered really and even still they only had 3 or 4 excellent seasons. Nothing against Kerry, it just so happens they've had a big turnover in players the last few years.

The Kerry point was being made because someone made a big deal of Donegal having one more player in the 26 of the original poster than Mayo. It was simply pointed out then by that logic, Kerry should have more. Of course that whole logic is nonsense and players should be treated as individuals, which is why no Tyrone player is mentioned even though they've been a top team. As it is, Donegal do deserve to have the most players mentioned after Dublin as they've had the most top class individuals of the chasing pack (Lacey, McGee, Murphy, McHugh, McBrearty, McFadden)

Gael85

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

That’s it exactly, he wasn’t in his familiar role closer to goal and was asked to be a ball carrier and creator. I can’t actually remember who was marking him in the day but I doubt it was McGee, surely he stayed closer to his own goal?

Neil McGee marked JOD that day. Eamonn McGee marked Donaghy. O'Donogue had a decent game out the field that day.

Pogue eile

Alvin Holler wrote: »

But even then he rarely marked the opposing team's best player. If he was a great defender he should have marked McFadden in 2012 or Brogan in 2013 instead of Cafferkey. Think Barrett started on O'Donoghue in 2014 semi and Higgins was switched onto him.



Completely agree, his defending for this goal was so naive. Kerry were dead and buried and in hindsight this was Mayo's best chance at an all Ireland.

https://youtu.be/Nahyo1XLn5A

You dont have to be a great man marker to be a great defender, two entirely different things, a team wouldnt get very far with 6 man markers and similarliy a team with 6 ball playing defenders would also be cannon fodder.

Nidgeweasel

Hulk Hands wrote: »

The Kerry point was being made because someone made a big deal of Donegal having one more player in the 26 of the original poster than Mayo. It was simply pointed out then by that logic, Kerry should have more. Of course that whole logic is nonsense and players should be treated as individuals, which is why no Tyrone player is mentioned even though they've been a top team. As it is, Donegal do deserve to have the most players mentioned after Dublin as they've had the most top class individuals of the chasing pack (Lacey, McGee, Murphy, McHugh, McBrearty, McFadden)

It's fairly simple really - the best full back of the past 10 years by a country mile is Neil McGee.

The best number 14 (nominal as the number may be) of the past 10 years by a country mile is Michael Murphy.

Then it's just Karl Lacey who was FOTY in 2012 and incredible over a number of years who deserves to be in. Not outlandish for all those 3 to have very strong claims given their individual excellence.

dog_pig

flasher0030 wrote: »

That's not the main reason. As the other poster pointed out, O'Donoghue played out around the half-forwards/midfield. Kerry management decided that he would be smothered out of it by the Donegal defensive system, if he stayed in the inside forward line. So they effectively game him the freedom of the park to take his marker on a little run-around and leave some space for Kieran Donaghy inside.

O'Donoghue spent no significant time in midfield until Kerry started to hold possession to run down the clock; he played half-forward and moved inside at various times throughout the match. He definitely played farther out than Donaghy and Geaney but to say he played in midfield isn't accurate. The match is on YouTube.