Sane enough to smuggle self to Ireland...

Beechwoodspark

Will be grilling any politician looking for me and my families votes over this case.

Will be providing a summary to the local groups I’m involved in also.

AlekSmart

Victor wrote: »

Is there a suitable institution there?

Will Egypt accept him if he has committed no crime there?

Would it be breaching Ireland's obligations to deport him?

Plenty of Institutions it would appear...

https://www.who.int/mental_health/evidence/who_aims_report_egypt.pdf

The majority of mental health funding is directed towards mental hospitals (59%). All mental disorders and all mental health problems of clinical concern are covered in social insurance schemes. At least 80% of the population has free access to essential psychotropic medicines. A national human rights review body exists. A national mental health authority exists which provides advice to the government on mental health policies and legislation. There are 62 outpatient mental health facilities available in the country, of which 2 are for children and adolescents only. In 2004, these facilities treated 254 users per 100,000 general population. Female users make up over 50% of the population in all mental health facilities in the country. The proportion of female users is highest in outpatient facilities and mental hospitals and lowest in inpatients units

We could politely ask Egypt to repatriate it's citizen,could we ?

Ireland's many obligations to an ever increasing number of individuals and groups,are indeed of note.

Personally I would prefer the Irish State to offer some of the same to the memory and family of the TOTALLY innocent man slaughtered by this individual.

Answering the murdered man's sister's question would at least be a start ?

"why a mentally unstable foreign national, whose origin was unknown, was allowed to be in the town."

Wibbs

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The hijacking of the ability to analyse situations in Ireland by extreme liberal ideologues and far right racists is intolerable. The huge middle ground I believe accepts international obligations when asylum seekers apply but we are failed by politicians in thrall to an extreme liberal ideology which does not look at things pragmatically. Equally the far right racists exploit situations for their own twisted ideology. A plague on both their houses.

Y'know K, whatever about this case, I reckon you could post that exact same thing in damn near every thread in this forum and it would fit nicely.


Though I think this particular case was a bloody senseless tragedy across the board.

Boggles

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

No, you’re wrong.

I think sometimes non-Irish people do not receive the same level of justice as Irish people, that’s not racist; quite the opposite.

I highlighted the main problem there for you.

We have all ready debunked your thought process when it comes to reason of insanity cases.

Again you're welcome.

Fr_Dougal

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Go home boggle you’re drunk/high/mentally incapacitated.

malinheader wrote: »

Its always the ones who sympathise with the murderers and not the victims who always shout racism.

Looks that way alright.

Annasopra

splinter65 wrote: »

Absolutely. Mental illness doesn’t exist. Just people looking for notice.

Of course it exists. Ridiculously stupid ill informed comment.

The_Kew_Tour

Boggles wrote: »

And you are qualified to make that statement based on your in dept knowledge of the Egyptian Health System?

What Health Systen?:pac:

Beechwoodspark

Boggles wrote: »

I highlighted the main problem there for you.

We have all ready debunked your thought process when it comes to reason of insanity cases.

Again you're welcome.

Is this meant to be witty?

AlekSmart

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What Health Systen?:pac:

Seems a bit like our own in many ways...?

https://egyptindependent.com/all-you-need-to-know-about-egypts-new-comprehensive-health-insurance-system/

171170

Allinall wrote: »

Point of order.

He didn’t murder anyone.

Firstly, that's a point of information, not a point of order.

Secondly, he was found not guilty of murdering someone by an Irish jury. That does not mean that he didn't murder anyone. Merely that the jury was persuaded by the defence that he was insane when he murdered his innocent victim.

alastair

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The key comment on this was from the victim's sister:

She cannot understand "why a mentally unstable foreign national whose origin was unknown was allowed to be in the town." She said her brother was deprived of his human rights. "It is truly infuriating and will forever be unforgivable"

The hijacking of the ability to analyse situations in Ireland by extreme liberal ideologues and far right racists is intolerable. The huge middle ground I believe accepts international obligations when asylum seekers apply but we are failed by politicians in thrall to an extreme liberal ideology which does not look at things pragmatically. Equally the far right racists exploit situations for their own twisted ideology. A plague on both their houses.

As a people we are failed by politicians repeatedly. There is no leadership.

My sympathies to Shiori Sasaki and her family.

You want pragmatism? Anyone stands pretty good odds of travelling from Belfast to Dundalk without an ID check - that’s the reality of a CTA area. The guy clearly presented as ‘odd’, but he did stipulate - to the Gardai - that he wanted to claim asylum. That claim would have resulted in a rejection, based on his being in the U.K. asylum system already, but to get to that point he needed to make his claim and have his fingerprints processed.

He was brought to make his claim by the Gardai, and they had no duty to babysit him beyond that. He subsequently went back to his squat in Dundalk, presumably after turning down accommodation. There is no requirement for asylum seekers to accept accommodation, and he was entitled to look after himself in that regard. Equally there’s no mechanism in the asylum process to flag suspected mental illness, and even if someone did suspect it - nobody could force the guy to go see a doctor.

I fail to see where you can hold any third party accountable for what transpired. Nobody was in any position to adjudge his mental health as being dangerous, and he wasn’t breaking any asylum claimant rules by opting to look after his own accommodation. The squatting would have been a civil matter - so nothing to do with the Gardai.

Allinall

171170 wrote: »

Firstly, that's a point of information, not a point of order.

Secondly, he was found not guilty of murdering someone by an Irish jury. That does not mean that he didn't murder anyone. Merely that the jury was persuaded by the defence that he was insane when he murdered his innocent victim.

But he didn’t murder his victim.

And when you say innocent.... what does that mean?

Not being pedantic here, but it’s very important not to get carried away.

splinter65

horseofstone wrote: »

That's an ignorant comment, the man was clearly mentally ill and deserves to be put into the CMH for treatment.

I was being sarcastic.

alastair

alastair wrote: »

You want pragmatism? Anyone stands pretty good odds of travelling from Belfast to Dundalk without an ID check - that’s the reality of a CTA area. The guy clearly presented as ‘odd’, but he did stipulate - to the Gardai - that he wanted to claim asylum. That claim would have resulted in a rejection, based on his being in the U.K. asylum system already, but to get to that point he needed to make his claim and have his fingerprints processed.

He was brought to make his claim by the Gardai, and they had no duty to babysit him beyond that. He subsequently went back to his squat in Dundalk, presumably after turning down accommodation. There is no requirement for asylum seekers to accept accommodation, and he was entitled to look after himself in that regard. Equally there’s no mechanism in the asylum process to flag suspected mental illness, and even if someone did suspect it - nobody could force the guy to go see a doctor.

I fail to see where you can hold any third party accountable for what transpired. Nobody was in any position to adjudge his mental health as being dangerous, and he wasn’t breaking any asylum claimant rules by opting to look after his own accommodation. The squatting would have been a civil matter - so nothing to do with the Gardai.

youre correct, its actually grand that a fella was murdered and nobody is responsible, sher the system is the system

splinter65

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Of course it exists. Ridiculously stupid ill informed comment.

I was being sarcastic. The post I was answering chose to ignore the verdict of the court and the testimony of 2 medical professions and declared the assailant a scumbag.
This country is full of people who think that there’s no such thing as mental illness.
Apparently it’s just looking for notice.

osarusan

Some countries have reciprocal arrangements where prisoners can be sent home to serve (some of) their sentences in their own countries.

I know this isn't exactly a sentence, but hopefully that applies here.

alastair

Deleted User wrote: »

youre correct, its actually grand that a fella was murdered and nobody is responsible, sher the system is the system

So then - who is it you’ve identified that you hold culpable? I’m curious.

goose2005

various artistes wrote: »

The interesting thing is this.

After initial reports at the time that the attacker had shouted Islamist slogans, the Gardai denied this, and denied there was a terrorist link, somewhere around 24 hours after the incident.

There was no terrorist link in terms that Morei was likely not in direct contact with a controller in Syria. He was not a member of any group and was not sent to Ireland with orders to carry out an attack.

In essence, he was like 98 percent of attackers where the attack is ruled to have been an ISIS attack. Franchised, DIY terrorism, not following orders but rather following the general call to arms.

The Gardai, under orders from the ministry of justice, lied to the media.

NOBODY who drives a car into a crowd, or knifes strangers, while shouting about Allah, is the full shilling. Nobody. This verdict is utterly fraudulent. Mental illness would be to start stabbing friends at a house party while shouting allahu akbar. Not doing so to strangers on the street.

This tool should be in prison, but it's more politically expedient for him to be forgotten in the hospital system.

If he had said "Heil Hitler!" you'd hear about it sure enough

alastair

alastair wrote: »

So then - who is it you’ve identified that you hold culpable? I’m curious.

tbh, my post was a fair bit snippier than your reply deserved, apologies

a victim isnt any less harmed in any crime where the guilty party pleads mitigating factors, and it is irksome that attention so quickly turns from the facts of the damage done to the myriad ways in which the consequences to the latter might be minimised

but youre correct to say this case didnt present much option for precautionary measures in advance

Considering the weight of professional evidence or opinion, I’m willing to respect this particular verdict though my thoughts are very much with the victims family.

I’m assuming though that this is very much an isolated incident, a tragic event; a once in a decade type of occurrence in terms of the key factors of this case.

What probably concerns me, is that this guy was found fit to stand trial in the first place- and I’m assuming that’s what concerns the OP also.

171170

Allinall wrote: »

But he didn’t murder his victim.

And when you say innocent.... what does that mean?

Not being pedantic here, but it’s very important not to get carried away.

You'll be able to find comprehensive definitions for "murder" "victim" and "innocent" in any reputable English language dictionary. You'll also find synonyms, antonyms and phonetic guides too, should you require them.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

I think that people who murder innocent people are pieces of sh1t.

I also think that if the victim was Irish this little piece of sh1t wouldn’t have gotten away as lightly.

How do you think it would have differed if he was Irish? If he was an Irish paranoid schizophrenic, he would also be held at the Central Mental Hospital.

Allinall

171170 wrote: »

You'll be able to find comprehensive definitions for "murder" "victim" and "innocent" in any reputable English language dictionary. You'll also find synonyms, antonyms and phonetic guides too, should you require them.

I prefer to stick with actual facts.

He was found not guilty of murder. That to me says he didn’t commit murder.

Calling the victim innocent is just emotional crap. Innocent of what?

weldoninhio

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Did you read the article?

How can they diagnose something retrospectively??

Allinall

Allinall wrote: »

Calling the victim innocent is just emotional crap. Innocent of what?

wow

weldoninhio

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

To be honest I don’t care what illness he has or hasn’t.

No interest.

He shouldn’t be in this country in the first place.

My solution is to land him back to the pyramids let them deal with him.

We should bring him half way, then let him swim the rest.

weldoninhio

Victor wrote: »

Is there a suitable institution there?

Will Egypt accept him if he has committed no crime there?

Would it be breaching Ireland's obligations to deport him?

What obligations??

AlekSmart

171170 wrote: »

Firstly, that's a point of information, not a point of order.

Secondly, he was found not guilty of murdering someone by an Irish jury. That does not mean that he didn't murder anyone. Merely that the jury was persuaded by the defence that he was insane when he murdered his innocent victim.

I wonder what level of English the accused operates at ?

I also wonder what level of Arabic our Psychiatric Services are capable of operating at when deciding upon the diagnosis of this individuals Illness.

My belief is that this person will be detained for a reasonable period (open to debate) and then will be the subject of an application to be released from custody,due to his being "cured" of his Illness.

Sooner than Later this man will be back in circulation on Irish Streets.

Graces7

Victor wrote: »

The Central Mental Hospital is essentially a prison.

And far safer for him given some of the attitudes expressed here.

X111111111111

Politically motivated verdict imo. Can't have any evidence this was a terrorist attack coming out despite the fact this piece of human s h it shouted Islamic slogans supporting ISIS.