Private Vs Public Healthcare in Ireland

pinkyeye

darklighter wrote: »

Its of SFA use when you need an emergency ambulance...…..but as multiple people have explained, you don't get Private Health Insurance for emergency ambulance cover :rolleyes:

There's absolutely no need for your rolleyes.

As you get older you're more and more likely to need an ambulance to get to hospital and hence my question.

The majority on here are obviously not there yet or haven't seen their parents there yet, despite paying 4k in health insurance ending up finding out you're dying and there's no hope for you by accident is an absolute fcuking disgrace.

0lddog

pinkyeye wrote: »

..........And why does Leo Vardakar and the likes of him never end up in A&E even when they have to call an ambulance?

I GUARANTEE you Simon Harris will NEVER EVER be in a public A&E.

can you backup these strange assertions ?

Do you remember the evening that Erskine Childers died ?

Where do you think he was taken ?

adam88

Public ambulance in this country can only bring you to a public hospital and to be quite honest if I was involved in a bad car accident or suffered a stroke or heart attack I’d want to be in a public hospital. Long term rehab etc then ya get referred to the private places as you’ll have the nice decor and menus etc etc.

As for private ambulances yoir health insurance will only pay for the transfer between hospitals, either public or private. A private ambulance won’t be paid by your hi to bring you into the private hospital or bring you home from the private hospital. It does happen that people get private ambulances to do those journeys but believe me it’s cash up front.

0lddog

0lddog wrote: »

can you backup these strange assertions ?

Do you remember the evening that Erskine Childers died ?

Where do you think he was taken ?

He wasn't taken anywhere, he was shot and buried in beggars bush barracks while waiting for his appeal to be heard in the supreme court.

Mrs OBumble

Greentopia wrote: »

So in other words private insurance is useless if you get a heart attack as you might as well call an ambulance yourself (or whoever will call one for you) and be taken directly to the nearest A&E with a cardiac unit in a public hospital. That's what I suspected. I hope everyone who is paying for private insurance is aware of that!

Yup, very well aware of it.

But equally well aware that a huge amount of life-preserving or enhancing hospital treatment doesn't follow an ambulance journey or an emergency situation. It follows sickness and travelling to healthcare under my own steam - and therefore treatment can be and is delayed due to lack of resources.

Caranica

LRNM wrote: »

Leo and the likes don't end up in public hospitals because when they have medical issues they most likely have their own doctors and nurses and can simply get chauffeured to a private hospital.
If they had an emergency, i.e couldn't be brought to hospital in a car then you bet they would be brought to a public hospital.


But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a private ambulance specifically for the high ranking politicians. I'd be interested to look into this.

Leo is a doctor, his partner is a doctor so I'm pretty sure he's sorted.

As for a private reserved ambulance for politicians, did you mean to post that in the conspiracy theories forum? You'll need all the time in the world to look for it because it doesn't exist!

whisky_galore

X111111111111 wrote: »

Matter of principle for me tbh.

+1.

I wouldn't feel right queue jumping and propping up a rotten system.

Greentopia

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yup, very well aware of it.

But equally well aware that a huge amount of life-preserving or enhancing hospital treatment doesn't follow an ambulance journey or an emergency situation. It follows sickness and travelling to healthcare under my own steam - and therefore treatment can be and is delayed due to lack of resources.

Oh yeah I understand that. Was just stating how it would be in life or death emergencies like a heart attack or stroke. Not uncommon in this country and something one thinks about as you get older like me.
Fortunately I'm in good health, but one never knows what's around the corner.

LRNM

Caranica wrote: »

Leo is a doctor, his partner is a doctor so I'm pretty sure he's sorted.

As for a private reserved ambulance for politicians, did you mean to post that in the conspiracy theories forum? You'll need all the time in the world to look for it because it doesn't exist!

How exactly? Lifeline, Code Blue and other private ambulance services provide private ambulances for VIP's all the time, like at concerts and large rugby matches theres a specific ambulance for the big players.



In other countries its common practice for a private ambulance to be part of political motorcades and campaign tours.
Most large industries have their own on site paramedics and ambulance services, i.e guiness, tara mines, all large oil operations, shell terminus in mayo etc.



So a specific lifeline (i say lifeline because theyre the biggest company) ambulance based in the city for government isn't exactly far fetched.

Also, the defense forces have ambulances.

LuasSimon

Is the main problem that so much of the HSEs budget goes on wages in particular for consultants , managers etc ?
And then consultants are only worried about their private work as it’s where they make the real cream ??

Foweva Awone

pinkyeye wrote: »

Can I ask, in your case what hospital/consultant would you be referred to if you have private health insurance?

I'm asking because there's not many private hospitals that deal with mental health.

St Pat's is the one I'm linked in with. St John of Gods is another one.

Sheepdish1

GooglePlus wrote: »

I don't have the insurance nor the money to go private.

I've been told by 2 gps that my heartbeat is irregular and have been getting random skips in beat. One GP even wrote in to Vincent's again to see about getting an earlier appointment but that didn't help.

I plan on getting a health insurance plan in the new year but I can't make heads or tails of the plans available. I couldn't afford more than 1000 per annum.

Could you pay for the test only private and then go back into the public system?

All My Stars Aligned

Lack of money spent on the public health system in Ireland is not the issue, I believe Ireland has one of the biggest spend per person when compared globally. The problem is the miss-management of our health service. If the HSE was run correctly the need for private health insurance would be greatly reduced.

As things stand now, if you can afford to pay for HI I think you would be very foolish not too.

BarryD2

FishOnABike wrote: »

This is something the government managed particularly badly when introducing risk equalisation regulations. People who had been members of a private health insurance scheme for most of their working life but may have had to break their membership for a period e.g. due to exiting a work related scheme due to job loss during the recession may as well never have had private health insurance when it came to rejoining at a later date.

It's a scandal how they operate and market their insurance. When I hear Dermot Joule is it? going on about the myriad of health plans - I think 'snake oil salesman'. Same applies to self employed people more so, as annual income can be variable and hard to predict.

Deleted User wrote: »

Would sooner not take out car insurance, park in front of the garda station and give the sergeant two fingers than not keep our health insurance.

I assume that's in jest! You'd be happy to mow someone down, leave them financially broken and walk away? Rather than go without your VHI?

jrosen wrote: »

We have had HI for years now and tbh never really saw the benefit as thankfully we are all healthy and haven't required it. Until recently. I required a pelvic ultrasound.

Public wait list 18 months, private app 4 days. I paid 180 and then claimed back through my insurance

OK, but suppose you'd saved your HI premiums instead, you could still have paid your €180 and saved a packet..

pinkyeye wrote: »

And why does Leo Vardakar and the likes of him never end up in A&E even when they have to call an ambulance? I GUARANTEE you Simon Harris will NEVER EVER be in a public A&E.

This is a political rather than a practical point. But I would tend to agree in that if ALL government ministers, senior civil servants and hospital consultants were precluded from private health insurance, we'd soon see rapid improvements in the general health service...............

BarryD2

For those who try things alternatively, has anyone used this service yet? https://letsbuyhealthcare.com/about-us

Heard it being promoted last year or so but have had no need to use it yet. The general idea is that you forego regular private HI premiums and save instead. In general you use the public service but if you need to 'jump the queue' for a particular issue, then you book your requirements here. So a blend of public & private 'pay as you go'. Not a bad model for some people.

wassie

Interesting enough - but as for being a different model, its nothing more than an online booking service for private medical healthcare/services.

BarryD2

wassie wrote: »

Interesting enough - but as for being a different model, its nothing more than an online booking service for private medical healthcare/services.

Well, not quite the same I think. No plans or annual premiums for starters, seems to be more of a pay as you go service.

Greentopia

BarryD2 wrote: »

For those who try things alternatively, has anyone used this service yet? https://letsbuyhealthcare.com/about-us.

Sounds interesting but I was reading their FAQ and they're not entirely clear on matters of cost.

They state this: 'Registering with Letsbuyhealthcare is completely free. When you register, you will be provided with a customer number. When you book a healthcare treatment or service with a provider YOU NEVER PAY ANYTHING AT ALL TO LETSBUYHEALTHCARE. Your online booking deposit (or full payment if you opt for that) is paid DIRECTLY to your chosen hospital or provider and our website has been connected up with private providers so that you can do that.

Letsbuyhealthcare is providing a service to healthcare providers and we separately agree our charges with them for that.'


I'm confused. It's saying it's completely free for customers to use their service and it's the hospitals or providers who pay the full cost of this service? is that your understanding? private providers are paying this website owner a fee in return for getting them more clients/patients?

decky1

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Glad it worked for you.

I was diagnosed with a pre-cancerous condition.

It took six months waiting after that to get surgery. In that time, pre cancerous had turned to early stage cancer. Great treatment from the public system once I got in but it would have been far more cost effective and less stressful to just treat me more quickly.

hope all is good with you now.

Greentopia

And yet when I check it out online this article says a commission is paid to them by the patient??

http://youandyourmoney.ie/consumer-watch-new-option-irish-healthcare/


"Registration for patients is free (you must have seen a GP), and Letsbuyhealthcare makes its money through a percentage commission payable by the patient."

“Letsbuyhealthcare advise you that €549.20 is the price for your treatment in ‘ABC’ Private Hospital on a particular date,” the company says as an example. “After accepting this price and indicating a desire to proceed, you pay the commission amount of €49.20 to Letsbuyhealthcare and in return, you receive your Treatment Identification Number (TIN). You then pay €500 to ABC Private Hospital in accordance with their procedures, having [provided] them with the TIN. This payment is normally collected when attending the hospital.”

Woop-de-doo registration is free but you're still paying them commission :rolleyes:
In this case nearly €50 for doing the price check phone calls to presumably find the cheapest providers.

Not going to do that as Id prefer to keep my money and do the leg work myself, but thanks to them for putting a lot of the information on costs and providers on their website so if I need a consultation quickly for example I now know where to go for different services. :cool:

AndrewJRenko

LRNM wrote: »

Private health insurance is of no use if you need an ambulance in an emergency (aside from interhospital transfers). That's not the point of private health insurance.
When you get to a&e you will be asked do you want to go public or private. It generally makes no difference to your treatment at that stage.

Leo and the likes don't end up in public hospitals because when they have medical issues they most likely have their own doctors and nurses and can simply get chauffeured to a private hospital.
If they had an emergency, i.e couldn't be brought to hospital in a car then you bet they would be brought to a public hospital.


But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a private ambulance specifically for the high ranking politicians. I'd be interested to look into this.

LRNM wrote: »

How exactly? Lifeline, Code Blue and other private ambulance services provide private ambulances for VIP's all the time, like at concerts and large rugby matches theres a specific ambulance for the big players.

In other countries its common practice for a private ambulance to be part of political motorcades and campaign tours.
Most large industries have their own on site paramedics and ambulance services, i.e guiness, tara mines, all large oil operations, shell terminus in mayo etc.

So a specific lifeline (i say lifeline because theyre the biggest company) ambulance based in the city for government isn't exactly far fetched.

Also, the defense forces have ambulances.

What 'political motorcades' are you referring to? I've seen Garda escorts for visiting VIPs, but we don't really have motorcades for our own politicians. And ambulances are fairly difficult to hide, so they would be painfully obvious.



You're going down a rabbit hole here. There is no private ambulance service for politicians.

pinkyeye wrote: »

And why does Leo Vardakar and the likes of him never end up in A&E even when they have to call an ambulance?

I GUARANTEE you Simon Harris will NEVER EVER be in a public A&E.

You did read about the recent visit of Kate O'Connell TD to Crumlin Hospital A&E with her child, right?

martyoo wrote: »

Am I right in say that those private A&E's deal with most emergencies unless its heart related?

No, private A&Es cherrypick what they deal with, like all private health providers. When things get messy or complex, they dump you back into the private service, which picks up the bill of course without question.


So the VHI Swiftcare and other private A&E are great for minor injuries, but not for complex life-threatening emergencies.

AndrewJRenko

Greentopia wrote: »

And yet when I check it out online this article says a commission is paid to them by the patient??

http://youandyourmoney.ie/consumer-watch-new-option-irish-healthcare/


"Registration for patients is free (you must have seen a GP), and Letsbuyhealthcare makes its money through a percentage commission payable by the patient."

“Letsbuyhealthcare advise you that €549.20 is the price for your treatment in ‘ABC’ Private Hospital on a particular date,” the company says as an example. “After accepting this price and indicating a desire to proceed, you pay the commission amount of €49.20 to Letsbuyhealthcare and in return, you receive your Treatment Identification Number (TIN). You then pay €500 to ABC Private Hospital in accordance with their procedures, having [provided] them with the TIN. This payment is normally collected when attending the hospital.”

Woop-de-doo registration is free but you're still paying them commission :rolleyes:
In this case nearly €50 for doing the price check phone calls to presumably find the cheapest providers.

Not going to do that as Id prefer to keep my money and do the leg work myself, but thanks to them for putting a lot of the information on costs and providers on their website so if I need a consultation quickly for example I now know where to go for different services. :cool:

Very few medical procedures are pure 'commodities' where can just jump for the cheapest provider. Would you pick the cheapest plumber or the cheapest mechanic in town?



Your GP should be your gateway to healthcare services. Get your GPs advice on where is best for any particular procedure.

tjhook

Greentopia wrote: »

From what I've read private health insurance will be an optional extra when it's introduced, it will be a single tier universal system that will be tax funded and which will remove private beds from public hospitals so the private sector will have to come up with hundreds of beds for their patients and expand their hospitals and clinics. And it will cost €700 million a year for the next ten years.

My understanding is that it will turn a two-tier system into a one-tier system. But unless they massively expand the current public system to match the current private system, the new merged system will be nothing like the current private system.

At the same time, “The Path to UHC – The White Paper”, foresaw introducing compulsory private health insurance based on managed competition between insurance companies.

"Key features of the policy entailed mandatory health insurance for every citizen under free choice of insurer as well as entitlement to the same package of care, covering primary and acute hospital services"

I.e. those who currently pay health insurance would continue to pay their premium for a service that is much reduced from what they're paying for today. Everybody else will be given it for free.

BarryD2

Greentopia wrote: »

And yet when I check it out online this article says a commission is paid to them by the patient??

Well I haven't used it yet, just heard them promoting the idea. So curious if anyone here has. I wouldn't object to a commission per se, seems to be lots of commissions in the health system (referral fees etc). As a solution though, it's not a bad idea for the sort of procedures that would take ages in the public system but which aren't massively expensive.

tjhook wrote: »

My understanding is that it will turn a two-tier system into a one-tier system. But unless they massively expand the current public system to match the current private system, the new merged system will be nothing like the current private system.

Lord knows where that idea will go and morph into. Maybe like a fair deal scheme where those can 'afford' pay and those who are possibly feckless get it for free. But if everyone has access to 'private health care', then there'd be no point in paying premiums to jump the queue. Cars were a great idea when only 10% of the population had them and there was one car to a household max. No so great when everyone wants one and to go where they want, at the same time etc.

Greentopia

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Very few medical procedures are pure 'commodities' where can just jump for the cheapest provider. Would you pick the cheapest plumber or the cheapest mechanic in town?

Your GP should be your gateway to healthcare services. Get your GPs advice on where is best for any particular procedure.

Yes I know that and obviously my GP would be the first port of call if I needed medical attention, I was just thinking in case I was told I had to wait months or years on the public system for a consultation with a consultant I could have an idea who is available privately also. Any additional information is helpful.

cute geoge

Do lads here go for annual health check and bloods taken ,If i went to a doctor with my list of complaints he would more then likely put me down but i think the bloods taken annually is essential once you hit 50

LRNM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What 'political motorcades' are you referring to? I've seen Garda escorts for visiting VIPs, but we don't really have motorcades for our own politicians. And ambulances are fairly difficult to hide, so they would be painfully obvious.



You're going down a rabbit hole here. There is no private ambulance service for politicians.

I'm only giving examples from other countries. I never said there was. I just said I wouldn't be surprised if there was.

I've known colleagues in lifeline to do the odd house call to prominent figures. But not for emergencies as we've been saying.

Still waters

I need to get my knee done, is there a scheme where i can go outside the state and get reimbursed for the cost of the surgery, i think i remember reading something about it years ago, would it be worth it does anyone know?

zell12

Brief warning to others to not adopt the irish two-tier health system

Despite only accounting for 12% of total health funds, private insurance in Ireland now drives access to hospital care – the tail that wags the dog. https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-two-tier-health-care-canada-ireland-1.5383995

mariaalice

Still waters wrote: »

I need to get my knee done, is there a scheme where i can go outside the state and get reimbursed for the cost of the surgery, i think i remember reading something about it years ago, would it be worth it does anyone know?

https://www.ntpf.ie/home/home.htm

You need to go to you GP first.

https://kingsbridgeprivatehospital.com/