Private Vs Public Healthcare in Ireland

mariaalice

https://kingsbridgeprivatehospital.com/Cross-Border-Patients/Cross-Border-Health-FAQs

mariaalice

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/eu_healthcare/cross_border_directive.html

jlm29

BarryD2 wrote: »

OK, but suppose you'd saved your HI premiums instead, you could still have paid your €180 and saved a packet..

.

It might not just be the €180 though. If the ultrasound were to diagnose a condition that needed surgical intervention that wasn’t urgent, for example, you’d have to have an awful lot more than €180 to cover the cost privately. So it’s back to the public system to wait your turn.
A friend of mine has a daughter who needed grommets a couple of years ago. She was having recurrent ear infections, antibiotics, her parents were having to take time off work because she couldn’t go to crèche. Gp referred her to a consultant who saw her the following week, and did the procedure within a week.
My cousin had the same procedure a couple of years previously having waited 2 years on the public system.

mfceiling

I had a double hernia op in Vincent's private on Wednesday past. Wife's company pays our insurance policy and in all the years we've never claimed a cent or used it in any shape or form.
Surgeon is supposedly the best in the country and at the initial consultation there were a couple from Valentina in Kerry up to see him because "there is no one better" (their words).

Having been in public A+E a couple of times it was a bit of a shock to go in to a hospital where everything is calm, quiet and the nurses actually take their time to talk to you.

My room was huge, very clean and modern and had an ensuite. Must have been visited 8 or 9 times between 8 p.m (post op) and 10 a.m when I left the next day.

Was kept waiting from 12 p.m to 4 p.m until my room was ready but in that time I was gowned up, bloods taken and filled out all the paperwork so it filed past fairly quickly. Waiting room was warm, clean and had a tele and magazines etc.

When I was brought down to theatre I was kept in a room adjacent to the theatre for about 40 minutes before being brought in. There was about 7 or 8 people milling around and I recognized the surgeon in the corner on his computer. They moved me on to the operating bed and the anaesthetist asked if I was comfortable on the bed. The next thing I remember was waking up 2 hours later in a recovery room.

The next morning I was given my breakfast and then a prescription sheet and was told I could leave. Slightly miffed that the surgeon never spoke before the surgery just to give me a "heads up" of what was to come. Also miffed that I was told I could leave and wasn't given any info (when can I drive, return to work, lifting etc). Maybe I should have asked these questions beforehand? Also as I left I was kind of lost and had to wait for a nurse to walk past to get directions to leave!!

So....Private care is very very good and probably is worth paying for but if I'm honest it doesn't sit well with me that just because you can afford something that you can skip ahead of someone who can't.

antimatterx

How I'd love to be minister for health with a bag full of cash. We have the right idea (nominal fee, but you get treated first regardless). America is mad. If you don't have insurance you're ****ed. Healthcare ideally should just be paid for by taxes and there's no bill. Ideally, we can build a lot more hospitals, and decrease waiting times.

Greentopia

tjhook wrote: »

My understanding is that it will turn a two-tier system into a one-tier system. But unless they massively expand the current public system to match the current private system, the new merged system will be nothing like the current private system.

At the same time, “The Path to UHC – The White Paper”, foresaw introducing compulsory private health insurance based on managed competition between insurance companies.

"Key features of the policy entailed mandatory health insurance for every citizen under free choice of insurer as well as entitlement to the same package of care, covering primary and acute hospital services"

I.e. those who currently pay health insurance would continue to pay their premium for a service that is much reduced from what they're paying for today. Everybody else will be given it for free.

Yes but that was the Dutch model they proposed based on mandatory private HI which they subsequently abandoned on cost grounds. As it says in that Wiki article. The Sláintecare model they now propose is a universal free at the point of access tax funded one. Something like the NHS I would assume.

But I was out of the country a few years when all this was being proposed so not au fair with all the plans and ideas. I believe Sláintecare has begun this year though with €200 million being spent on it. They have said €3 billion will be invested over the next 6 years so seems they're already behind target.

Still waters

You're obviously more important if you can pay for your health insurance, the poor **** that laboured on sites or made beds in a hotel to rear a family will hopefully die before pension age so they won't be a drain on the system

Greentopia

cute geoge wrote: »

Do lads here go for annual health check and bloods taken ,If i went to a doctor with my list of complaints he would more then likely put me down but i think the bloods taken annually is essential once you hit 50

I do. Got full blood panels done this year and thankfully all great. I've had mild endometriosis for years but approaching menopause now so that takes care of that.

I agree, will get full blood work done every year now and waiting on an appointment for a DEXA scan. I've always invested in preventative health measures and it's paying off, but I know of course some things can be out of our control.

Greentopia

Still waters wrote: »

I need to get my knee done, is there a scheme where i can go outside the state and get reimbursed for the cost of the surgery, i think i remember reading something about it years ago, would it be worth it does anyone know?

Yes lots of info on it here: https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2019/1206/1097447-truths-about-eu-funded-health-schemes/

mickdw

The way the public hospitals bill the health insurers is a disgrace.
You get taken in public hospital by ambulance for example. You are asked if you have health insurance and if you do it's like a bonanza for them. 1000 plus per night to be treated like sh1t. You might not even have a bed.
They should not be allowed to bill these amounts unless some form of private service is provided.

Greentopia

jlm29 wrote: »

It might not just be the €180 though. If the ultrasound were to diagnose a condition that needed surgical intervention that wasn’t urgent, for example, you’d have to have an awful lot more than €180 to cover the cost privately.

If it wasn't urgent I'd just wait for my appointment date for surgery on the public system.

Unless I was in pain in which case €180 probably wouldn't be enough agreed, but it would cut out months or maybe a year or longer waiting for that public consultation so even if you went back to the public system you've saved yourself that time, and then you only have to wait for whatever course of action the consultant advises to become available surgery, physio or whatever.

Not as good as going all private but it could prevent a lot of time spent in pain and suffering and a condition deteriorating to the point it needs more radical intervention, or resultant permanent disability or worse.

mickdw

babyboom wrote: »

The big difference between private and public health care is the waiting time to see a consultant and for any follow up procedures/tests.

I have a bowel issue. Was sent to A&E in February. Referred to gastro consultant via public system. Had my appointment in July. I was put on the list for a colonoscopy and was due to have it on 28 November. Endoscopy dept called the day before (after I had started taking the prep) to say A&E had taken the beds and my appt was cancelled. My new appt is 02 January. Now my GP had written to them a few months back to say this test was urgently needed and yet I'm still waiting. If I had health insurance my tests and results would have been done months ago and my condition would not have deteriorated to the extent it has. I may now be in serious trouble. Early detection is the most important part of any diagnosis and those of us relying on the public system are losing out on this.

To be honest, it's worth begging, borrowing or stealing the money to at least have the colonoscopy done immediately. It's not mad money and could be critical to your treatment.

Greentopia

mfceiling wrote: »

Having been in public A+E a couple of times it was a bit of a shock to go in to a hospital where everything is calm, quiet and the nurses actually take their time to talk to you.

My room was huge, very clean and modern and had an ensuite. Must have been visited 8 or 9 times between 8 p.m (post op) and 10 a.m when I left the next day.

Reminds me of the Swedish public healthcare system. I didn't have any need of hospital care when I lived there but I was in several local clinics for routine checkups and cervical screening tests, and I visited a friend in a local hospital who had a baby there and it was all like that. Calm, quiet and ultra clean and modern. She was a public patient too as is the norm there.

mfceiling wrote: »

Slightly miffed that the surgeon never spoke before the surgery just to give me a "heads up" of what was to come. Also miffed that I was told I could leave and wasn't given any info (when can I drive, return to work, lifting etc). Maybe I should have asked these questions beforehand? Also as I left I was kind of lost and had to wait for a nurse to walk past to get directions to leave!!.

That's because you're a paying customer in a private business and you got what you paid for as they see it, so they don't feel any social or moral obligation to look after you outside the fixed parameters of the treatment you paid for. You're just another paying customer.

You're done? "you can leave now, bye". Yes I think it would have been best to ask any questions prior to your treatment as once they're done with you they're just interested in getting the next customer in. I wouldn't expect anything less from a for profit healthcare hospital.

jlm29

Greentopia wrote: »

If it wasn't urgent I'd just wait for my appointment date for surgery on the public system.

That’s a big if. I personally wouldn’t take the chance, and my OH is self employed and couldn’t afford to.

Caranica

Caranica wrote: »

Mater private, Beacon, Hermitage in Dublin for starters

You’re not allowed go unless a GP sends you though.

Caranica

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

You’re not allowed go unless a GP sends you though.

Not true. I did have a gp letter for Mater Private but I saw walk ins. Friend went straight to Hermitage, no letter.

Caranica

Caranica wrote: »

Not true. I did have a gp letter for Mater Private but I saw walk ins. Friend went straight to Hermitage, no letter.

I looked about going to the Hermitage to try get seen to properly before and was told no they required a referral. Had to go to Connolly and you can guess the rest.
Maybe it’s changed since.

AndrewJRenko

Caranica wrote: »

Not true. I did have a gp letter for Mater Private but I saw walk ins. Friend went straight to Hermitage, no letter.

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I looked about going to the Hermitage to try get seen to properly before and was told no they required a referral. Had to go to Connolly and you can guess the rest.
Maybe it’s changed since.

It might vary by speciality, depending on the nature of the medical issue involved.

mfceiling wrote: »

The next morning I was given my breakfast and then a prescription sheet and was told I could leave. Slightly miffed that the surgeon never spoke before the surgery just to give me a "heads up" of what was to come. Also miffed that I was told I could leave and wasn't given any info (when can I drive, return to work, lifting etc). Maybe I should have asked these questions beforehand? Also as I left I was kind of lost and had to wait for a nurse to walk past to get directions to leave!!

That's very worrying. It's likely that the impacts of this poor management post procedure will fall back on the public system as an 'emergency' to be dealt with.

cute geoge wrote: »

Do lads here go for annual health check and bloods taken ,If i went to a doctor with my list of complaints he would more then likely put me down but i think the bloods taken annually is essential once you hit 50

Your GP should advise what is required. I don't do annual bloods, about every 2 or 3 years, plus prostate checks too.

Greentopia wrote: »

Yes I know that and obviously my GP would be the first port of call if I needed medical attention, I was just thinking in case I was told I had to wait months or years on the public system for a consultation with a consultant I could have an idea who is available privately also. Any additional information is helpful.

Your GP should be a good source of advice as to what is available privately and where you can go too. Obviously, they won't be an expert on every possible insurance policy and what is covered, but they should know who are the good consultants in any particularly area. My own GP generally advises 'private consultant in public hospital' if insurance provides for this.

Greentopia

jlm29 wrote: »

That’s a big if. I personally wouldn’t take the chance, and my OH is self employed and couldn’t afford to.

Well like I said if it was urgent or painful I'd pay the €180 or whatever for a private consultation at least. I'm self employed too. The other option for me is to see what I could get done in Germany. My partner is German and I've seen doctors there and gotten a cervical test done when I lost confidence in the Irish system.

And if it was something that could be done in another EU country like the cross border initiative I'd check that out too. I've always been a saver so can pay out of pocket for some things before reimbursement.

Marcusm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

You’re not allowed go unless a GP sends you though.

That’s absolutely untrue.

Marcusm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I looked about going to the Hermitage to try get seen to properly before and was told no they required a referral. Had to go to Connolly and you can guess the rest.
Maybe it’s changed since.

Absolutely wrong whoever told you that; you self refer, ie turn up. A wholly consultant delivered service with full on site diagnostics (eg MRI which Connolly doesn’t have). You were misinformed.

Ian talking about the private ED/A&E at Hermitage which can then refer you to any specialist as required. Not for routine treatment but for urgent/emergency cases.

Marcusm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, private A&Es cherrypick what they deal with, like all private health providers. When things get messy or complex, they dump you back into the private service, which picks up the bill of course without question.


So the VHI Swiftcare and other private A&E are great for minor injuries, but not for complex life-threatening emergencies.

You can’t compare Swiftcare to Beacon, Blackrock, Mater, Hermitage, Bon Secours Cork, Galway Clinic etc. The latter category absolutely want the complex cardiac, urological, orthopaedic etc cases as they are full services hospitals. Swiftcare is more like a full service GP with some onsite diagnostics. The others might have to refer on neurological or similar cases but otherwise make money from complex admissions for procedures. The A&E fee is not what interests them.

By contrast, Swiftcare allows VHI to divert patients who might otherwise cost them more money through charges from public hospitals.

pinkyeye

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

Could you pay for the test only private and then go back into the public system?

No, that's the problem.

Ronan|Raven

Having seen the speed of treatment afforded to a family member for the last number of years with Private cover I would never be without it.
They would have been dead had they ended up waiting for appointments in the public system.

pinkyeye

Still waters wrote: »

I need to get my knee done, is there a scheme where i can go outside the state and get reimbursed for the cost of the surgery, i think i remember reading something about it years ago, would it be worth it does anyone know?

I think it depends on how long you're waiting. It's called the National Treatment Purchase Fund.

Hellrazer

I posted this in another thread but I think its relevant here.
For the record I don't have Private Health Insurance but did offer to pay for her operation(about 40k) but its not done in any of the private clinics only in Tallaght Childrens Hospital or Crumlin.

The whole culture of consultants having both a private and public clinic is where the issue lies.

Heres my story.
Daughter diagnosed with scoliosis in December 2018. Contacted Crumlin Childrens hospital and was told she`d be put on the waiting list and we`d be contacted with an appointment.

Roll on August this year and still nothing so I asked which consultant she would be seeing. Found out he holds a private clinic in Santry Monday to Friday. I get an appointment within 2 days to see him in his private rooms. Shes seen and is now waiting on surgery. So my question is why can a consultant who has a clinic in Our Ladys hospital Monday to Friday still be able to have a private clinic also Monday to Friday?

Ill tell you why--Its because he doesn't show up half the time for his public clinics. Prefers to take his 300.00 euros for 15 minutes work. He just decides hes not going and his "team" will handle it.
This is one of the issues that must cause frontline staff serious heartache.



There should be a wholly public contract for consultants -- at least then you might get them working a 9 - 5 clinic. That one change would in my opinion solve a serious amount of the waiting list issues.

Its not the admin staff that should be slated--they really are doing their best. But how can they do their job when the only person that can make a decision on a sick persons treatment doesn't even bother his hole to show up for clinics.

I was even told by a nurse to arrive into A+E with my daughter and sit there until she saw her consultant..She not even that bad but why should I tie up the A+E when a more serious person needs it.

Its a cultural change that's needed from the top down.

Sorry for a rant but my blood is boiling with our health service.. Oh and for whats it worth I offered to pay in cash for the surgery to get my daughter seen to quickly but the procedure isn't even done on private insurance policies. So Im stuck waiting with the public system. I even asked about travelling to the UK or Europe but that cant be approved until shes on a waiting list for 2+ years!!!!

And also there are 2 operating theatres in Crumlin that carry this surgery out.
One of them isn't even operating (excuse the pun) and the other one is only working 3 days a week instead of 5 like it should be.

The waiting list for my daughter is about 18 months now. Imagine being a 13/14 year old girl with a curved spine. Never mind what it does for your physical appearance--imagine what it does for her confidence at that age.

Im ****ing fuming with the state that these successive governments have done to our health service.

Sorry rant over/

Lillyfae

Greentopia wrote: »

I mean not just for cataracts or hip replacements like the CBD scheme but anything I could have done under the Irish service as a citizen of this country? My partner is from another EU country-Germany and we're soon to decide where we will live together-here or Sweden, but likely I will keep my house here in Ireland and he will return occasionally to visit family and friends in Germany so we will spend time each year in possibly three countries, but likely for more than three months abroad that the European Health Insurance Card would cover so we would possibly need private insurance to cover all countries.

Also, I used the EHIC in both those countries and it works well. Can it also be used if you actually live for up to three months in another country if say you wanted an elective procedure that there is a long wait for in this country-say I wanted to see a Gynae in Germany (can be one year waiting on the public system here) and I stay there up to three months. Would the public German system carry out any follow on treatment necessary or would they refuse as I'm not a citizen with Germany health insurance and tell me I had to wait until I returned to Ireland? I checked for this info online but couldn't find it.

I'm thinking if we split our time correctly between countries we may be able to be covered for everything in the public systems of Germany, Sweden and Ireland without having to take out private insurance at all, but maybe that's a fantasy :pac:

I think it's probably a fantasy. It will really be dependent on where you file the bulk of your taxes, add to which the registration of residence is probably less flaky in Sweden and Germany than Ireland. I don't have any experience of Sweden but afair in Germany employers pay a 2/3 contribution into the krankenkasse (?), which is a public insurance system more often than not but can also be private, and the employee makes a 1/3 contribution. Often 300e per month or more.

The Irish system is almost entirely public, insurance buys priority where possible. Mirroring the Dutch system would be for the best imo- a sort of pay related health insurance taken from gross wages, everyone pays for their own private health insurance on top and those on lower incomes receive a subsidy for their insurance. I've been in A&E once here with my child, sent by my GP, no wait time and think I saw about three other people while we were there. Also were dealt with by nurses because the GP had already advised them of what course of action needed to be taken.

The NHS is a basket case and nobody should strive for it. I think the best case would be universal contribution based on means but the waste will never be dealt with until privatisation starts to come in- which no-one will ever agree to because in Ireland it's a bad word.

Geuze

Lillyfae wrote: »

afair in Germany employers pay a 2/3 contribution into the krankenkasse (?), which is a public insurance system more often than not but can also be private, and the employee makes a 1/3 contribution. Often 300e per month or more.

German health insurance - compulsory for most workers

100 insurers approx, not-for-profit

Very heavily regulated.

Premium = 14.6% of wages + supplementary 0.9% = 15.5%

Half paid by worker, half by employer.

mariaalice

Lillyfae wrote: »

I think it's probably a fantasy. It will really be dependent on where you file the bulk of your taxes, add to which the registration of residence is probably less flaky in Sweden and Germany than Ireland. I don't have any experience of Sweden but afair in Germany employers pay a 2/3 contribution into the krankenkasse (?), which is a public insurance system more often than not but can also be private, and the employee makes a 1/3 contribution. Often 300e per month or more.

The Irish system is almost entirely public, insurance buys priority where possible. Mirroring the Dutch system would be for the best imo- a sort of pay related health insurance taken from gross wages, everyone pays for their own private health insurance on top and those on lower incomes receive a subsidy for their insurance. I've been in A&E once here with my child, sent by my GP, no wait time and think I saw about three other people while we were there. Also were dealt with by nurses because the GP had already advised them of what course of action needed to be taken.

The NHS is a basket case and nobody should strive for it. I think the best case would be universal contribution based on means but the waste will never be dealt with until privatisation starts to come in- which no-one will ever agree to because in Ireland it's a bad word.

The UK is not a basket case but could do better far more efficient for a lot of things. Too many peopel are seeing a gp when a nurse specialist wold do in the uk you would never see a gp for contraceptives you would go to a sexual health clinic staffed by nurses and health care assistant, help with brest feeding would not be a nurse it would be a band 4 HCA trained in helping nursing mothers and so on, all routine follow up do not usually need a GP they need a nurse for most chronic condition, nurses do too broad a job here and we need lower grade staff doing more and more community-based facilities.

Why go to a hospital for scans have scan center in office parks and use technology to send the results to the doctor.

Rulmeq

GooglePlus wrote: »

I don't have the insurance nor the money to go private.
...
I plan on getting a health insurance plan in the new year but I can't make heads or tails of the plans available. I couldn't afford more than 1000 per annum.

There will be a waiting period when you sign up for any new plans (up to 2 years on some stuff). If you can afford €1k, you can get quite a bit of work done for that (although it can also disappear very quickly if they discover stuff that needs work!)