Property Prices in the 70s and 80s Compared to Now

meijin

pwurple wrote: »

Population 1950 Republic of Ireland: 2.9 Million
Population 2019 republic of Ireland: 4.9 Million

= 2 million more people competing for space on the same island.

1841 = 6.5 million. Where did they live??

for comparison...
area of Taiwan, half of Ireland
population of Taiwan 24 Million

there is plenty of space in Ireland

pwurple

meijin wrote: »

1841 = 6.5 million. Where did they live??

The many derelict former thatched cottages on the west coast. Prices are still low there.


Yes, loads of space, but it's not all in Dublin.

SusieBlue

meijin wrote: »

1841 = 6.5 million. Where did they live??

for comparison...
area of Taiwan, half of Ireland
population of Taiwan 24 Million

there is plenty of space in Ireland

We had a completely different culture and society back then, its like comparing apples and oranges.
Farming was the primary source of both income and self sustainabilty in those days so there was far less need to live in or near towns and cities.
The population was far more rural than it is now and families of 10/12 would often live in overpacked little cottages in unsanitary, unhealthy conditions.
Again, hardly a standard of living we should be encouraging or aspiring to.

People need to live where there are employment opportunities. Young people shouldn't have to spend 4hrs a day commuting just to have a roof over their heads.
Better, faster, public transport is a huge part of it, don't get me wrong.
But there is little to no employment opportunities in the rural towns and villages that are frequently offered up as "options" to people complaining about renting/buying being unaffordable in our big cities and towns.

awec

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Take a family of 4 in the 80s and a family today and compare the running costs of both households .
Back in the 80s maybe one car ... Today ?
Back in the 80s no yearly holiday ... Today ?
Back in the 80s no gym membership/ no fortnight visits to the hairdresser / no mobile phone accounts / no sky packages / no crèche fees / ....
Throw in all the designer sofas / beds / bathrooms etc etc ...
Back in the 80s people had no credit cards ...
The biggest change has been the amount of women that are now working.
In the 80s that wasn't the case .
Today both parents have to work and it's to pay for a lot of the sxxt we don't need.
As time goes by in Ireland we become more and more like the Americans ...
Consumers having to work to pay back a lot of the stuff we didn't have to change.

It is pointless comparing discretionary spending across such a large timescale. Technology and society changes.

Over time things get cheaper and become more available to the masses, it's not that everyone today is terrible at keeping their costs down and back in the 80s they were great at living frugally.

The holiday one for example, the reason people go on more holidays these days is because travel is a lot easier, quicker and cheaper than it used to be. People in the 80s would have done exactly the same if it travel was easier, quicker and cheaper then too.

50 years from now people might spend a months wages on their annual holiday to the moon. People today would do exactly the same thing if you it cost them the same amount relatively.

Princess Calla

meijin wrote: »

1841 = 6.5 million. Where did they live??

for comparison...
area of Taiwan, half of Ireland
population of Taiwan 24 Million

there is plenty of space in Ireland

Many Dublin people would have lived in tenement buildings, whole families in little more than a room.

This way of living became frowned upon when buildings started to collapse killing people.

We don't do high rise buildings in Ireland!

SozBbz

meijin wrote: »

1841 = 6.5 million. Where did they live??

for comparison...
area of Taiwan, half of Ireland
population of Taiwan 24 Million

there is plenty of space in Ireland

There is plenty of space in Ireland but 1/3 of the population want to live in one small area.

I'm not sure todays market economics applied under British rule where the landed gentry rented to subsistence farmers.

Anyway, its ridiculous to compare the numbers from the 80's to now -there are too many variables to make it a reliable comparison.

- building regs. I've seen posters trying to negate this fact, but people today have higher expectations of their homes and the govt has mandated the use of certain materials which are expensive. This was not the case in the 80s. 4 walls and a roof -after that it was up to yourself.

- Ireland was not an in demand place to be. Net emigration in the tens of thousands each year. High unemployment. High taxes on those in work. Seen as the backwater of Europe. Very little inward investment. Is it any surprise houses weren't that expensive?

- High Interest rates - already discussed at length but paying rates at ~15% the repayments are big relative to the nominal value of the loan.

mariaalice

I was an adult and had a house in the 1980s it was easier in a lot of way, but more difficult in other ways, unemployment was massive and things were more expensive in relation to salaries things such as cars and household appliances adjusting for inflation a new washing machine was the equiluminant of a 1000 euro, however, houses were cheaper in relationship to income so getting a house was relatively easy for example I was talking to my neighbor about this and they purchased aged 21 and 22 workings as a barman and a hairdresser.

The standard of living was much lower so you had your house with back boiler central heating a TV, a washing machine, cooker, and very little else, tumble dryers and dishwashers were rare unless you were wealthy.

aaakev

Back boilers are the business! I'd much prefer to use the fire or stove than the oil and we do most of the time

mariaalice

aaakev wrote: »

Back boilers are the business! I'd much prefer to use the fire or stove than the oil and we do most of the time

They are only really useful if someone is at home during the day if both are working outside the home as is common today they are only of minor use.

That is a central point, life and lifestyles are different today as well as expectations.

aaakev

mariaalice wrote: »

They are only really useful if someone is at home during the day if both are working outside the home as is common today they are only of minor use.

That is a central point, life and lifestyles are different today as well as expectations.

My wife is in and out all day with school runs etc, the oil comes on in the morning usually as I'm leaving and heats the place for an hour or so for them getting up and at the moment she will usually light the stove mid morning and keep that going for the night. The water is already hot so its just keeping it there really.

Princess Calla

aaakev wrote: »

My wife is in and out all day with school runs etc, the oil comes on in the morning usually as I'm leaving and heats the place for an hour or so for them getting up and at the moment she will usually light the stove mid morning and keep that going for the night. The water is already hot so its just keeping it there really.

Again your situation is ideal as your wife stays at home. If both of you were working starting a commute at 6 am wouldn't be feasible unless you had a live in childminder.

Alot of people are trying to juggle work, commutes,crèches etc. On top of an affordable house.

aaakev

Princess Calla wrote: »

Again your situation is ideal as your wife stays at home. If both of you were working starting a commute at 6 am wouldn't be feasible unless you had a live in childminder.

Alot of people are trying to juggle work, commutes,crèches etc. On top of an affordable house.

Yeah it works for us and we are lucky the way things are. I see friends where both partners work and they have childminders etc, not a trade I'd take.

On the back boiler though, our old house was an 80s built house with open fire and back boiler, I'd light the fire and have the thermostat off and in 30 minutes the boiler is hopping, flick the switch and the house was roasting in a matter of minutes!

Princess Calla

aaakev wrote: »

Yeah it works for us and we are lucky the way things are. I see friends where both partners work and they have childminders etc, not a trade I'd take.

On the back boiler though, our old house was an 80s built house with open fire and back boiler, I'd light the fire and have the thermostat off and in 30 minutes the boiler is hopping, flick the switch and the house was roasting in a matter of minutes!

My sister had a backboiler in her old house. When she wanted a bath she'd fill the bath with just hot water, feck off and make a cup of tea while water cooled.

She did the same in the parents house with immersion heated water....I can still hear my parents screams

silver2020

pwurple wrote: »

Yes, loads of space, but it's not all in Dublin.

Tons of space in Dublin -

Elm Park Golf Club
Milltown Golf Club
Castle Golf Club
Grange Golf Club
Rathfarnham golf Club



That's over 300 acres of prime development land for high density development.

Circa 15,000 homes

Claw Hammer

SozBbz wrote: »

Nah, I don't think so.

You're totally ignoring interest rates and the standard of housing.

Sure, on paper a house only twice your annual gross income sounds ideal but he in the 80's he could have been paying close on 20% interest. The repayments were still a struggle for a lot of people.

.

In the 70's inflation ran at more than the rate of interest. People got pay rises several times a year to make up for inflation. A massive mortgage became manageable within a few years as the repayment remained constant subject to interest fluctuations while the salary rose. The big problem at that time was getting a deposit and finding a house within budget. The banks did not lend on residential property other than to a few select customers and the building societies did not have funds and tended to demand money on deposit for a lengthy period before considering a loan and then took ages to decide whether or not to give a loan. people bought house that time and moved in to bare floors and orange boxes for furniture until inflation did its job.

mariaalice

Claw Hammer wrote: »

In the 70's inflation ran at more than the rate of interest. People got pay rises several times a year to make up for inflation. A massive mortgage became manageable within a few years as the repayment remained constant subject to interest fluctuations while the salary rose. The big problem at that time was getting a deposit and finding a house within budget. The banks did not lend on residential property other than to a few select customers and the building societies did not have funds and tended to demand money on deposit for a lengthy period before considering a loan and then took ages to decide whether or not to give a loan. people bought house that time and moved in to bare floors and orange boxes for furniture until inflation did its job.

Forgotten abou that in some building socities there was a waiting list to even open an accound to save for the deposit and it took months for a decision about a morgage. A lot got morgages from the council which had to be paid back 4 times a year or there was a lot of building coops as well.


https://www.rte.ie/archives/2018/0322/949376-housing-cooperatives/

riclad

If you drive on the back road from finglas to blanchardstown ,theres loads of empty space, covered by tree,s and grass,
i presume the council or the government owns it.
I would cycle there every week, to avoid using the motorway.
it would take about 30 minutes to cycle there .
It was hard to get a mortgage in the 80,s ,
its easy now, if you are working, to get a loan for 3 times your salary.

mariaalice

riclad wrote: »

If you drive on the back road from finglas to blanchardstown ,theres loads of empty space, covered by tree,s and grass,
i presume the council or the government owns it.
I would cycle there every week, to avoid using the motorway.
it would take about 30 minutes to cycle there .

There is loads of develpment planned for it.

lcwill

There seem to be a lot of 2-3 bed houses in Drimnagh, Crumlin, Kimmage, Finglas etc in the 200-300k region, two bed apartments in many parts of the city for less than 300k. No problem for couple of kids to share a room until they are 10 years old. My kids will be sharing a room until at least that age.

With low interest rates, if someone can get a deposit together it seems like these are not out of reach in terms of mortgage payments, certainly cheaper than paying rent / huge commuting costs.

Are these so far out of reach? Especially if we look at household income, not the single wage which most families had in the 70s, 80s

Am I totally wrong?

The J Stands for Jay

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Back in the 80s people had no credit cards ...

Don't you remember those machines that you put the card into, covered it with a carbon paper form and slid a roller over to make an imprint of the card on the form? You'd sign the form and it wouldn't hit your account for weeks because the shop took a while to send the form into the bank

The J Stands for Jay

awec wrote: »

It is pointless comparing discretionary spending across such a large timescale. Technology and society changes.

Over time things get cheaper and become more available to the masses, it's not that everyone today is terrible at keeping their costs down and back in the 80s they were great at living frugally.

The holiday one for example, the reason people go on more holidays these days is because travel is a lot easier, quicker and cheaper than it used to be. People in the 80s would have done exactly the same if it travel was easier, quicker and cheaper then too.

50 years from now people might spend a months wages on their annual holiday to the moon. People today would do exactly the same thing if you it cost them the same amount relatively.

I remember in the early 1990s when my parents realised it cost the same to holiday Inn Spain as it did in Ireland. I was the first kid in my class to go on a sun holiday.

pwurple

silver2020 wrote: »

Tons of space in Dublin -

Elm Park Golf Club
Milltown Golf Club
Castle Golf Club
Grange Golf Club
Rathfarnham golf Club



That's over 300 acres of prime development land for high density development.

Circa 15,000 homes

People need civic amenities, and this is what govts and councils actually should be doing, rather than becoming mini construction companies. Plan parks, recreation facilities etc.

riclad

Wages were much lower in the 80,s .
But i think a garda or a nurse could afford to buy a house on 1 salary, a 3 bed house in dublin in the 80,s .
Now they might have to buy 1 bed apartment .I know a large site 5 minutes from o,connell st, big enough to build a large house on.
I do,nt know why the owner does not sell it to a builder.
Its at the back of a row of house, s .
Its been empty for 20 years .

Claw Hammer

riclad wrote: »

Wages were much lower in the 80,s .
But i think a garda or a nurse could afford to buy a house on 1 salary, a 3 bed house in dublin in the 80,s .
Now they might have to buy 1 bed apartment .I know a large site 5 minutes from o,connell st, big enough to build a large house on.
I do,nt know why the owner does not sell it to a builder.
Its at the back of a row of house, s .
Its been empty for 20 years .

houses were affordable in the 80's. The big problem was getting a mortgage. Once someone got a deposit and bought a house the repayments were small. I know a couple who bought a 3 bed house in Lucan about 1984 for 27k. Afther tax relief the repayments were IR31 a week! A bedsitter in Rathmines at the time was about IR25 with no tax relief.
Deposits were 20% and two solicitors had to be paid as well as stamp duty which meant about 30% of the purchase price had to be saved. The process of getting loan approved was lengthy and bridging finance was often necessary.

The J Stands for Jay

pwurple wrote: »

People need civic amenities, and this is what govts and councils actually should be doing, rather than becoming mini construction companies. Plan parks, recreation facilities etc.

Nationalise the golf courses to build parks. Golf courses aren't really civic amenities.

mariaalice

Claw Hammer wrote: »

houses were affordable in the 80's. The big problem was getting a mortgage. Once someone got a deposit and bought a house the repayments were small. I know a couple who bought a 3 bed house in Lucan about 1984 for 27k. Afther tax relief the repayments were IR31 a week! A bedsitter in Rathmines at the time was about IR25 with no tax relief.
Deposits were 20% and two solicitors had to be paid as well as stamp duty which meant about 30% of the purchase price had to be saved. The process of getting loan approved was lengthy and bridging finance was often necessary.

How did you have to pay two solicitors? I don't remember that.

Claw Hammer

[/S]

mariaalice wrote: »

How did you have to pay two solicitors? I don't remember that.

Pp to 1987 you had to pay your own solicitor as well as the building society's solicitor. It was at scale rates as well. No negotiation on price those days. IR100 plus 1% of the price.

mariaalice

Claw Hammer wrote: »

[/S]

Pp to 1987 you had to pay your own solicitor as well as the building society's solicitor. It was at scale rates as well. No negotiation on price those days. IR100 plus 1% of the price.

So how do you reckon so many average people purchased a house, people who worked in retail or postmen and the like because lots did the type of people who would find it difficult if not impossible today.

TSQ

mariaalice wrote: »

So how do you reckon so many average people purchased a house, people who worked in retail or postmen and the like because lots did the type of people who would find it difficult if not impossible today.

Do you actually know lots of shop assistants and regular postmen who got a mortgage? These are exactly the kind of working poor who qualified for corpo houses. Unless you mean shopkeepers and postmasters?

mariaalice

TSQ wrote: »

Do you actually know lots of shop assistants and regular postmen who got a mortgage? These are exactly the kind of working poor who qualified for corpo houses. Unless you mean shopkeepers and postmasters?

I did actually as I said my neighbors started off a barman and hairdresser and purchased a house aged 21 and 22 in the 1980s