CHAdeMO v CCS

ELM327

And remember, Teslas can all use CCS.

AndyBoBandy

This time next year it'll be less than 10%

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707708#Comment_119707708

Nope close to 15%. That's the reason I said % doesn't do justice because we can't se the big picture and this graph is better.

Also it follows the 1/x function which is harder to grasp at a first glance than linear. For example say you add 25k CCS next year and zero the other kind => 52k out of 61k total => 85% To have 10% at the end of next year would need 36k CCS and zero the other kind. Having said that in absolute figures 85% out of 61k is nearly double than 75% of of 36k.

Gumbo

Model S and X can use chademo and ccs.

Laviski

it will be 10% in the next 2-3 years, got to factor in the cars 10+years may no longer be on the road as well.

ELM327

And of those 10-15%, most will be degraded gen1 leafs used as second cars that are never fast charged anyway

Laviski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707857#Comment_119707857

what you basing that off?

from the table show earlier there is 7166 chademo cars, checking on motor sates there is about 4k leafs sold from 2018 which is when the gen 2 came on the road.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707882#Comment_119707882

So of the 7166, 4k gen2 leafs which in a couple of years will be hitting the SOH bar losses etc. And others earlier will be 50-80km gen1 leafs

Or outlander phevs

Red Silurian

Interested to hear if anybody has added the CCS2 port or the3 phase AC charger to their LEAF that's being offered by range therapy at the moment?

https://rangetherapy.org/

Laviski

if i have the car in 5 years time, i would look into it but i doubt i would get it. Those that have the leaf60 would suit more or more viable for them as my long journeys are very few.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708101#Comment_119708101

I'd be the same, more interested to hear if it actually works or if it can be a bit flakey. What you call 5 years is 4 for me so starting my research early

Laviski

given that leaf's have passive cooling i would be concerned you may destroy SOH with CCS, they are advertising up to 125kw/h... so obviously this is the theoretically speed it could attain. given on my leaf the most i ever got was 47 from an easygo and 44 from ecars units i would defo need more research on it before jumping aboard.

If anything i would look into the AC upgrade, most of my charging is done at destination chargers rather than fast charge. getting a solid 22kw/h (decreases the closer you are to 100%) would peak my interest first. i'm surprised more car's don't have the 22kwh charging compatibility, seems most new cars still at 11.

ELM327

Yes they are a dodgy bunch in general tbh. From not adding active cooling, to telling customers not to contact their insurance company to notify them of the modifications.

liamog

i'm surprised more car's don't have the 22kwh charging compatibility, seems most new cars still at 11.

11kW AC charging is popular because it allows you to cover domestic AC charging for EU markets. Some countries tend to supply single phase electricity with a higher available current, others tend to supply three phase electricity with lower currents per phase. For the 3 phase countries a 32A single phase charger is too large so they tended to be limited to 16A. This led to 3p 16A becoming necessary to give an acceptable level of overnight charging. I seem to remember there was a couple of cars where this meant you were limited to 16A on a single-phase charger which was also too small for a night. The ability to electrically group the phases of the on-board charger allows them to operate at 32A on a single phase.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708895#Comment_119708895

Yeah that's very true, I'd definitely be calling my insurer to ask what the protocol is

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708595#Comment_119708595

Looking at the muxsan website (the crowd Range Therapy seem to be based off) they offer faster ccs charging but only give figures based on the extender pack size that you can get with them

So to get 125kW speed you need the 44kWh extender, with their 8.8kWh extender you only get max of 60kw on CCS so it looks like they've thought of that and while I'm not sure if they offer ccs upgrade without a range extender you would get the slower speeds

https://www.muxsan.com/English/products.html#ccs-upgrade

shanec1928

Even esb see it as a dead standard.

https://twitter.com/thommcg1980/status/1590303221230497793?s=46&t=Eba583McaLjfmD3O_uMeHw

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852784#Comment_119852784

From 2024 on new sites only... There's good news and bad news in this for leaf drivers, the bad news is obviously that the DC plug will no longer be supported, the good news is that ecars rollout is so slow we are unlikely to start feeling the effects until 2028

The above is an example of how good news can be depressing

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852784#Comment_119852784

Brilliant news

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852784#Comment_119852784

Great news, an absolute waste of resources catering for a dwindling % of cars.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852919#Comment_119852919

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852921#Comment_119852921

Unless you drive a leaf of course

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853021#Comment_119853021

There's enough Chademo plugs available already to service the current fleet and that Chademo fleet will most likely not add many more cars over the next few years.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853055#Comment_119853055

That's absolute bo11ox, there isn't enough DC chargers to service any particular fleet in this country

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853021#Comment_119853021

If you drive a leaf you're driving an outdated tech. There are pro rata too many chademo chargers compared to CCS per capita right now (2:2 at most HPC installs, despite an >8:1 sales ratio).

zg3409

No chademo on new esb chargers according to EV summit today, from 2024...

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853337#Comment_119853337

It's a sad day when an electric car is considered "outdated tech"

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857514#Comment_119857514

The writing has been on the wall for CHAdeMO in Europe since the 2014 Alternative fuels directive. Nissan choosing not to update the car with CCS support when they added type-2 was a bad idea. Innovators (the first 2.5%) and Early Adopters (the next 13.5%) often get burnt with technology choices, if they aren't prepared to be burnt, they shouldn't get into the market until the market winner has emerged.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857514#Comment_119857514

Plenty of electric cars, including the Tesla Roadster first gen are outdated tech. As are any of the prior EVs like the EV1, the ranger EV, the first Rav4 Ev that all used inductive paddle chargers and that standard is now obsolete too. CCS is the standard and has been for nearly 10 years ago now. Chademo is this generation's digital video disc, betamax, etc. A dead standard.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857514#Comment_119857514

The not so sad news, for CHAdeMO users, is that EasyGo are installing Tritium which are 1:1 CHAdeMO/CCS. They installed way more than ESB lately and they announced more to come. 200 if you believe the last press release.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860988#Comment_119860988

Yes if you want to pay 1.5X the ecars rate, and rely on single point of failures in most locations, easygo are there to the rescue!

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861014#Comment_119861014

Never had an issue with easygo chargers and the rates aren't 1.5X

That's ionity

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861433#Comment_119861433

Yes they do generally seem to work. I use the chargers on the M4/M6 junction (before the SuC came in) and also the one in Athy with some regularity.

After all the price changes it's hard to keep up. It used to be 1.5X, now it's more like 1.2 times.

Black_Knight

CHAdeMO usage is about where CCS usage was 18 months ago.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627692#Comment_120627692

Ecars have already confirmed no new chademos from 2024

So at their rollout rate, the very next CHAdeMO equipped unit they rollout could well be their last...

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627692#Comment_120627692

Less Chademo means more EVs on the back of recovery trucks... Is that really a good thing?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630656#Comment_120630656

Your logic fails. Why would someone with a chademo car drive to a charger that is listed as CCS only on the app?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630707#Comment_120630707

Because it was once a chademo supported location and not everybody religiously checks apps with stations they are familiar with. Some don't even check apps

You'd be surprised with some people as well, I had an elderly man in a Citroen C-Zero at J14 a few weeks back unsure as to why he couldn't plug into the CCS charger and pay with a credit card

I helped and got him setup only to find that he was also plugging in on 90% SOC

Dealers have a lot to answer for in explaining things I reckon

the_amazing_raisin

Well we can reset the "Days without a Chademo Vs CCS argument" to zero again

Had a good run there, I think we nearly got over a month 😂

Black_Knight

Do I need to break out the graphs again? Applegreen stats are interesting actually. Very very very little CHAdeMO usage on them at all. Though they're mostly CCS AFAIK.

zg3409

Sorry to open this wound, from Facebook

Hi all, we have a 2015 leaf. We drove from clare to clifden for a week camping, which we do every year. It didn't occur to me to check to see if the chademo charger had been removed from clifden, it has. Replaced with a unit with two ccs chargers and no type 2 option. We called the esb abs they said chademo is "redundant" and being phased out of the public network. . We are very stuck. Screwfix don't have granny chargers in stock so wondering does anybody know where in the area we could buy or borrow a granny charger , or any suggestions. We did manage to charge in the local hotel but we had to buy a 50 euro voucher and told that was a one time thing, as its for residents only. Thanks!

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120776396#Comment_120776396

A Nissan Dealer in Galway should be able to help for a fee.

AndyBoBandy

Mid year sales figures are out;

Counting only the top 10 BEV's of 2023,

Total sales 11,255 of which 455 are Nissan Leaf's, giving CHAdeMO a market share (within the top 10 only) of 4.04%

ELM327

I had 2 chademo sessions yesterday for the first time in yonks. Once at the Easygo in Naas Starbucks and once at the circle k on the m9j5.

Memories! Like plugging in an old VHS tape of a family reunion.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803161#Comment_120803161

I always found the clock of the Chademo plug going in very satisfying, made it seem like some piece of industrial machinery

It's almost matched by the frustration when the plug won't click in properly and the charger won't start

It's still a bit nicer than CCS I have to admit. Last year I had to help a guy in an E-tron to start the charger because the cable was under a bit of tension and caused the handshake to fail.

I did Bjorn's trick of holding the plug in place while the other guy started the charger and it worked. Probably saved that guy a bit of worry

I do feel like the mechanical locking system of Chademo probably would stop that happening

Anyway, doesn't matter since CCS won. At least until we all change over to NACS

AndyBoBandy

Just realised my numbers are incorrect, as Nissan numbers now need to be broken down to the Leaf & the Ariya.... so the ratio is even lower for poor old CHAdeMO!!

Laviski

there are more models out there than just the leaf that can use the Chademo standard. While the leaf would be the majority lets say 7k+ (if not that it would be pretty close to it)

i would say there would be easily 8k approx if not higher if you include other models.

In any case, yes new DC locations need to be CCS and these need to in hubs rather than single units. However existing Chademo should be retained to cater for the existing fleet that is out there.

AndyBoBandy

What other full BEV models exist?

Isn't there a Lexus that uses CHAdeMO? Anything else?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808386#Comment_120808386

That lexus uses CCS1 in NA currently so they will probably change it in europe too. You could also import a JDM bmw I3 and it would have chademo. Beyond that you're looking at phevs (who shouldnt use DC anyway) and even the toyota mirai FCEV has a chademo port in. the boot - but it's meant for V2H.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808386#Comment_120808386

Older Model S/X would have DC Type 2 sockets but many would have chademo adapters as well. Most PHEVs only use slow charging Type 1 or 2 but the Mitsubishi Outlander also has Chademo.

Anything that gets imported as a second hander from Japan will have Chademo as well. I think it's highly possible that Japan will become the new UK for car imports in years to come with the cheese for automobiles deal

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808834#Comment_120808834

I don't see why we should be maintaining any kind of infrastructure to serve the needs of dumping cars here from the Japanese market. It will be interesting to see how that's handled in the future, I doubt we'll see people doing CCS upgrades to the car as part of the import process.