Ian Bailey being extradited to France

aaakev

Guilty or not he should not be sent to France

bcklschaps

bcklschaps wrote: »

The discussion here is that a man aquitted of an alleged crime committed here

Just to be pedantic, he has not been aquitted of any crime here.
He was not charged as the DPP didn't feel there was enough evidence to go to court

Calhoun

bcklschaps wrote: »

Well firstly the thread title is misleading. Ian Bailey is NOT being extradicted to France.

All that is happening is the French have issued another arrest warrant for him (Their 3rd) and the Judge has to endorse it this time because there were changes in Irish law regarding Extraterritorial Jurisdiction .....Criminal Law (Extraterritorial Jurisdiction) Act 2019.

So the Arrest warrant will be tested in court. (Previous two arrest warrants were dismissed out of hand and didn't even make it to the courts here).

If Ian Bailey eventually gets extradicted to France ... it will be a very very dark day for the Irish Legal system and an Garda Siochana. I don't think anybody knew much about this Bill in the Dail ...but it clearly has significant implications for the countries sovereignty.

It's not just a very dark day for our government but the European Union on a whole. What it says if it goes ahead is that all that matters is how deep your pockets are, if you don't get convicted in one county we can try you in another and use the extradition warrants.

fritzelly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Good summary of all that went on in this case. Bizarre imo.
https://blogs.kent.ac.uk/criminaljusticenotes/2019/06/06/prosecuting-an-irish-murder-in-france/#

Great read thanks, only had a tenuous interest in the case but that blog has opened my eyes

As for the French trial and the High Court accepting the EAW - the system is fecked if it happens and woe betide anyone else in the wrong place at the wrong time

Dubh Geannain

He's unlucky, Ecuador only has a consulate and not an embassy in Ireland.

Padre_Pio

aaakev wrote: »

Guilty or not he should not be sent to France

Care to qualify that statement?

Dangerous precedent to set.
You could be playing hurling and go for a hard tackle against a French lad on Erasmus.
Fair enough, you get sent off, match ban whatever, but hurling is a dangerous sport and it's generally accepted that people get injured.

Nothing comes of it here, but he could go home to the French court and have you up for GBH, you're tried in absense, sentenced to a few months in prison by a French judge and jury, then the Irish Govt hands you over when the EU arrest warrant comes through.

My example is extreme, but possible.

MrAbyss

She was probably murdered by some slack-jawed yokel bogballer who had an inter-parish match that Sunday and the 'real GAA men' called in a favour so he could play.


More important that Saint Inbreds get back at Webfoot Kickhams for beating them by a point in 1968 than an innocent blow-in get locked away for life.

fritzelly

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Care to qualify that statement?

Are you missing the "not" in his post?

Padre_Pio

fritzelly wrote: »

Are you missing the "not" in his post?

...yes :pac:

aaakev

Padre_Pio wrote: »

...yes :pac:

Haha nice rant though.... hahaha

leath_dub

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Oh yeah? Which came first , Soham or West Cork?

Listen to yourself.

I'm well aware of the chronology. His behaviour was quite similar to Huntley's.

Harry Palmr

Given what was discovered on the back of this case (which claimed a Commissioner remember) it's hard to believe this is anything other than a put up job to please the French.

I'd also avoid living "down there" cos frankly if you sneezed in the wrong accent every curtain would twitch.

Jaw dropping recap

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/specialreports/immersive-read-french-trial-of-ian-bailey-is-latest-chapter-in-nightmare-which-is-now-23-years-old-925444.html

fryup

was it simply a case...of the guards under massive pressure in desperation try to pin it on the local eccentric ?

or is there more to this case that only the locals know about?

Spanish Eyes

Gardai. Just saying. Dont think they are without fault either. But who knows.

99nsr125

fryup wrote: »

was it simply a case...of the guards under massive pressure in desperation try to pin it on the local eccentric ?

or is there more to this case that only the locals know about?

I still and have always suspected it was a Guard of profile that did it, that was able to manipulate the investigation to string an innocent man up and take the heat off themselves

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

He’s actually trapped on this island. I believe there’s a European arrest warrant issued for years now so he can’t travel without risking arrest and extradition to France

Yep, he cannot leave. He missed his mothers funeral in England over this and is rightfully very bitter that he couldnt say goodbye to her

finbar10 wrote: »

I'd be also tempted to track down under what governments and under what specific ministers previous protections in our European Arrest Warrant legislation were stripped out (no doubt with the French whispering in the background). Quite a few Justice Ministers bent over backwards to facilitate the French investigation over the years after the Irish investigation was slapped down by our own DPP. Sucking up to EU players seems to be generally more important to our politicians than rights of Irish citizens (or a mere resident in this case) or the supposed sovereignty of our own justice system.

As I posted in the other thread earlier this year in May Varadkar met Emmanual Macron in Paris to lobby him for a vote for Ireland to get onto the UN Security Council. A week after the Paris meeting suddenly out of nowhere Vadrakar dispatched Irish troops to help French troops contain an uprising in Mali in west Africa. There has been over 30 French soldiers killed (13 of them just two weeks ago in a helicopter crash) and Macron was under criticism by public opinion at home over it. So his solution was to get Ireland to pivot our foreign policy to back up French colonialism in west Africa. Varadkar better hope that none of our soldiers come home dead or there will be serious questions asked as to why he put them in danger at the behest of Macron. Mali is a live war zone and has been described by the UN as the most dangerous mission they have.

Padre_Pio

99nsr125 wrote: »

I still and have always suspected it was a Guard of profile that did it, that was able to manipulate the investigation to string an innocent man up and take the heat off themselves

West Cork takes that opinion.

Bailey was the only suspect, English, a weirdo, who had previously hit his partner.

Am I right in saying the reason he was initially on the radar was because he was so quick arriving to the scene to report on the murder.

99nsr125

99nsr125 wrote: »

I still and have always suspected it was a Guard of profile that did it, that was able to manipulate the investigation to string an innocent man up and take the heat off themselves

Jaysis that's some theory, is there any evidence of this?

IAMAMORON

I have heard it before.

Padre_Pio

bubblypop wrote: »

Jaysis that's some theory, is there any evidence of this?

The Bandon tapes infer it.

fritzelly

bubblypop wrote: »

Jaysis that's some theory, is there any evidence of this?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/judgment-reserved-on-ian-bailey-appeal-over-garda-conspiracy-1.3029020

cj maxx

Padre_Pio wrote: »

The Bandon tapes infer it.

What are the bandon tapes ?

Padre_Pio

Padre_Pio wrote: »

The Bandon tapes infer it.

Where do i hear these?

fritzelly

fritzelly wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/judgment-reserved-on-ian-bailey-appeal-over-garda-conspiracy-1.3029020

Read this but it doesn't make any link to a Garda being the offender?

fritzelly

bubblypop wrote: »

Read this but it doesn't make any link to a Garda being the offender?

Bringing an unreliable witness, judge allowing said witness from even testifying and so on and so on, then saying she's lying - the whole thing is farcical add in the above about the tapes

Dia_Anseo

I was just thinking there is there anyway we could swap Bailey with FAI Delaney ? We can hand Delaney over to the French and hopefully they'll keep him for good.

Padre_Pio

cjmc wrote: »

What are the bandon tapes ?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/fennelly-report-gardai-were-prepared-to-alter-ian-bailey-case-evidence-447208.html

A big box of decades of taped private phone recordings between gardai. Some conversations relate to Ian Bailey.

No evidence that they actually tampered with evidence, but that they were willing to do so.

Gardaí investigating the Sophie Toscan du Plantier murder were prepared to “contemplate altering, modifying or suppressing evidence” that hindered their belief that journalist Ian Bailey killed her...

The commission... found no evidence that statements in the du Plantier case had been interfered with.

...there were two instances when gardaí appeared willing to contemplate allowing or encouraging false allegations to be made or false evidence to be given. There was no evidence that those considerations were carried out.

However, the report stated in relation to the secret recording of telephone calls at Garda stations, abuse of the system could not be ruled out.

There was also the whole Martin Graham story, where Gardai allegedly gave some lad money and hash so that he'd befriend Bailey and get him to admit to the murder.

buried

buried wrote: »

West Cork was all sorts of total dodge. There was shipments of cocaine going through there for decades and f**k all was being done about it.
The first huge consignment actually caught back in 2007 was discovered only because the gang involved overloaded a smaller boat used to ferry the drugs ashore and accidentally filled a spare fuel tank with diesel instead of petrol. Storm came in and the boat capsized.
Locals used to report vans carrying small boats going down boreens and the backroads to the coast in the depths of winter at all hours of the morning for decades and nothing was ever investigated. The Gaurds down there back in the day, I wouldn't trust a thing they were at. Same as Donegal back in the 90's. Total all sorts of wrong was going on there.

My uncle had a pub in West Cork. About 30 odd years ago i was there one night after closing time helping to clean up. There was a knock on the door and it was the local guard. There was an unfamiliar car out front, he was checking there was no after hours drinking going on. My uncle invited him in, introduced him to me, "my nephew giving me a hand cleaning up". Me in the middle of mopping the floor. "Oh grand" says the guard, my uncle shows him out and they both look across the road to the rival pub where the party is in full swing, smokers outside smoking, loud music, everyone with a glass in their hand. The guard glanced in that direction, and got in his car and drove off.


My uncle told me a case of whiskey got sent into the Garda barracks each month by the rival pub owner and they turned a blind eye to his late night sessions.



The guards decided they had their man, and would make the evidence stick. It didnt stick and so the evidence disappeared.

MayoAreMagic

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My uncle had a pub in West Cork. About 30 odd years ago i was there one night after closing time helping to clean up. There was a knock on the door and it was the local guard. There was an unfamiliar car out front, he was checking there was no after hours drinking going on. My uncle invited him in, introduced him to me, "my nephew giving me a hand cleaning up". Me in the middle of mopping the floor. "Oh grand" says the guard, my uncle shows him out and they both look across the road to the rival pub where the party is in full swing, smokers outside smoking, loud music, everyone with a glass in their hand. The guard glanced in that direction, and got in his car and drove off.


My uncle told me a case of whiskey got sent into the Garda barracks each month by the rival pub owner and they turned a blind eye to his late night sessions.



The guards decided they had their man, and would make the evidence stick. It didnt stick and so the evidence disappeared.

In fairness, just because a guard lets a pubs have late drinks doesnt mean they arent going to treat a brutal murder seriously. The two instances are worlds apart.

fritzelly

fritzelly wrote: »

Bringing an unreliable witness, judge allowing said witness from even testifying and so on and so on, then saying she's lying - the whole thing is farcical add in the above about the tapes

I listened to the west cork podcast, they went into all this actually, I remember now.
The unreliable witness kept changing her story from what I remember. She was a terrible witness, but at the same time, it's not up to the guards to decide that, they just send the evidence in, the DPP decides.
The investigation was not good. Times were different, but I find it hard to believe the conspiracy that a Garda did it & created a huge diversion to someone else!
We will never know for sure, unless someone admits it, not Bailey cos he already did, just not officially!

But, no matter what, he should not be extradited to France, ridiculous.