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Arrested after Work Christmas Party?

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    #62
    tomwaits48
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tomwaits48


    Are you the PWC lad who sh*t himself according to the vmail doing the rounds at the moment?

    Seriously though, something similar happened in my place, dispute between colleagues at the "afters" in a separate venue from the Xmas party....both weren't fired but were "managed out" within 6 months.


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    #63
    Professor Genius
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 391 ✭✭Professor Genius


    Conor84 wrote: »
    Was at my Christmas Party at the weekend, All went OK and 3 of us left after midnight to go somewhere else. A few hours later things got a bit messy and 2 of us had a bit of a "dispute" and it didn't end up well and I ended up getting arrested. Really regret what happened but am dealing with it now.

    I am due back in work on Wednesday have been told I have to see my Manager when I am back in. I am just wondering what powers my job have about this especially if the Gardai are dealing with this? This happened outside work time so should they be getting involved at all?

    Are your employers aware of you’re previous convictions for assault ? Hopefully you didn’t lie about it on your application.


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    #64
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    I actually has sympathy for you OP until I had a look at your previous posts. I mean the first thread you started is 8 years ago and it's about you getting arrested after a night out and learning your lesson so it won't happen again.

    Since then it's seemed to happen a few times. You need to give up the drink and drugs.
    Janey mack OP. You're 35 years old and getting arrested for scrapping while drunk. It's time to cop on.

    You've been up in court least twice in the last eight years. Most people go through their entire life without ever being in front of a judge.

    It's time to grow up.


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    #65
    Berserker5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 248 ✭✭Berserker5


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Nope.

    It happened with a work colleague. Work are involved and were brought into disrepute when the guards asked how you know each other.

    If I was your boss, you'd be fired. Others may be more lenient.

    Total made up BS


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This.
    It’s clear this is far from a one off incident.


    The After Hours posts you mean ? ;)


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    #67
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,574 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    This will come down to OPs reputation and standing at work.

    The fact that the night started off as an organised work function and the incident still involved people from work, maybe that could be stretched to still be work related.

    If they are looking for an opportunity it’s possible they may look towards discipline.

    If the other party has made a complaint that this was a work night out and wants it investigated then the employer will need to deal with it, even to just say it’s definitely not work related.


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    _Brian wrote: »
    This will come down to OPs reputation and standing at work.

    The fact that the night started off as an organised work function and the incident still involved people from work, maybe that could be stretched to still be work related.

    If they are looking for an opportunity it’s possible they may look towards discipline.

    If the other party has made a complaint that this was a work night out and wants it investigated then the employer will need to deal with it, even to just say it’s definitely not work related.


    IMO, if the Xmas party facilitated access to alcohol (paid for or otherwise) it would be difficult to not infer that the events following the xmas party were not related.

    For example, someone gets drunk at a party, and leaves the party and drink drives and crashes, the company might be liable even though the person was no longer at the party.


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    #69
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭SteM


    Deleted User wrote: »

    For example, someone gets drunk at a party, and leaves the party and drink drives and crashes, the company might be liable even though the person was no longer at the party.

    Sure if that was the case no company would ever run a party that involved alcohol.


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    #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SteM wrote: »
    Sure if that was the case no company would ever run a party that involved alcohol.


    No, this is why they organise taxi's and buses or pay for people to stay overnight.


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    #71
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,917 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No, this is why they organise taxi's and buses or pay for people to stay overnight.
    I have been at plenty of Christmas parties I don't think taxis and buses or paid for overnight accommodation has ever once been offered...no would I expect it...people are adults they can make their own decisions


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    #72
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Deleted User wrote: »

    For example, someone gets drunk at a party, and leaves the party and drink drives and crashes, the company might be liable even though the person was no longer at the party.

    Why?
    The company hardly held the employee down and force fed them vodka through a tube. Alcohol is a normal part of socialising in Ireland and any adults who voluntarily choose to drink have a responsibility to drink sensibly.


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    #73
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Less reason in 2019 with GDPR.

    Did you ever hear of the bush telegraph? Its not always reliable but it is sure to travel. Common in small towns and big villages, where idle minds have nothing to do but backbite each other.


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    #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Why?
    The company hardly held the employee down and force fed them vodka through a tube. Alcohol is a normal part of socialising in Ireland and any adults who voluntarily choose to drink have a responsibility to drink sensibly.

    An employee is under the supervision of an employer at a work party as it's considered the work place. Therefore the company's responsibility.


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    #75
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭SteM


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No, this is why they organise taxi's and buses or pay for people to stay overnight.

    Your company might, the majority certainly do not.


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    #76
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    An employee is under the supervision of an employer at a work party as it's considered the work place. Therefore the company's responsibility.

    You got any source for that?
    Anyway you were talking about someone crashing after they leave. Are employers liable for accidents people have on their drive between home and the office?


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    #77
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,417 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Nope.

    It happened with a work colleague. Work are involved and were brought into disrepute when the guards asked how you know each other.

    If I was your boss, you'd be fired. Others may be more lenient.

    Fired for what exactly? This didn’t happen at work, during work time or in the process of work. People have personal lives and time in which they can make unfortunate mistakes. This isn’t a reason for sacking them


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    #78
    whomitconcerns
    Registered Users Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    road_high wrote: »
    Fired for what exactly? This didn’t happen at work, during work time or in the process of work. People have personal lives and time in which they can make unfortunate mistakes. This isn’t a reason for sacking them

    If it involves work colleagues then yes it may be a reason for sacking them as it does potentially affect the employers business


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    #79
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    road_high wrote: »
    Fired for what exactly? This didn’t happen at work, during work time or in the process of work. People have personal lives and time in which they can make unfortunate mistakes. This isn’t a reason for sacking them

    IF a company wants to fire you they will fire. It doesnt matter how it will get done but it will get done. This seems to be an ongoing problem. I would view it as time to move on and go before you are pushed.


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    #80
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Straight up tell them you can't remember a thing after you left the party, and stick to it.


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    #81
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,417 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    whomitconcerns wrote: »
    If it involves work colleagues then yes it may be a reason for sacking them as it does potentially affect the employers business

    They wouldn’t approve of it obviously but on what grounds can they sack someone for fighting with a work colleague outside of work hours, off premises and at a non company event?


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    #82
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,417 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    IF a company wants to fire you they will fire. It doesnt matter how it will get done but it will get done. This seems to be an ongoing problem. I would view it as time to move on and go before you are pushed.

    Yes but there’s very strict procedures and circumstances to follow. They can’t just fire someone “because they want to” just like that. If I was the op I wouldn’t be going anywhere unless of my own volition. We know nothing of their actual work performance which could be exemplary with an excellent skills set. These are what I’d be interested in rather than what they get up to in their private lives. He’s not company property


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    #83
    secondrowgal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭secondrowgal


    https://irishtechnews.ie/how-to-avoid-pitfalls-as-your-companys-christmas-party/

    "n circumstances where the duty of care employers have towards their staff extends to office events held out of hours, determining when that duty of care ends after a Christmas party is a difficult question. Just because a work function or Christmas party has ended, does not mean that the employer’s duty of care necessarily ends.

    An employer or organisation may still be liable if an incident occurs following the event. The standard that usually applies is that the employer has a duty of care to the employees while they engage in any activity reasonably associated with attending a work function. Employers need to consider travel arrangements that employees can make when the party is over and they need to travel home i.e. ensuring that the party is being held in a venue that has good transport links.

    The employers’ duty of care ceases when an employee is deemed to enter into conduct which is not “reasonably foreseeable” with attending a work related function."

    Also:

    https://www.sfa.ie/Sectors/SFA/SFA.nsf/vPages/News~small-firms-warned-on-staff-christmas-parties-17-12-2015/$file/SFA+Guideline+on+Social+Events.pdf

    Alcohol
    Most problems arising out of company functions relate to alcohol consumption. To reduce the likelihood of such problems, the employer should be aware of the following:
    • If the company supplies the alcohol or encourages its consumption it could be partially liable for the employees’ actions.
    • The employer’s liability can extend beyond the end of the party particularly where employees are back in work the following day have not fully recovered from the effects of the party (for example in respect of employees who operate machinery).
    • Employers should endeavour to limit the amount of alcohol provided.
    • To this end, it is advisable not to offer an unrestricted free bar but rather to issue a limited number of bar tokens per person. Double measures of spirits should not be redeemable.
    • Employers should actively discourage employees from driving when under the influence of alcohol. This may involve arranging transport or organising special rates with taxi firms.


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    #84
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    If i were the manager / HR executive id be steering well clear of this one.


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    #85
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,417 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    smelly sock wrote: »
    If i were the manager / HR executive id be steering well clear of this one.

    Yes unless they want to be sued for unfair dismissal. Because the op would have a very strong case if some of the advice here was seen through. They’ll likely have a word and leave it at that.


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    #86
    whomitconcerns
    Registered Users Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    road_high wrote: »
    They wouldn’t approve of it obviously but on what grounds can they sack someone for fighting with a work colleague outside of work hours, off premises and at a non company event?
    Bringing the company into disrepute, causing harm to another employee, abuse of a work relationship. I would have lots of issues as a manager, etc.

    Depending on the severity and circumstances it may warrant disciplinary procedures up to dismissal. Let's face it, based on the ops posting history is unlikely he's a bastion of virtue on regular company nights out.

    By some of the logic here, I could do anything to another employee outside of work and the company couldn't do anything about it. Sure let's all go threaten our bosses families, but after hours. They should just suck it up as it didn't happen in the office????


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    #87
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Lots of people in this thread have never read a work contract...


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    #88
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    road_high wrote: »
    Yes but there’s very strict procedures and circumstances to follow. They can’t just fire someone “because they want to” just like that. If I was the op I wouldn’t be going anywhere unless of my own volition. We know nothing of their actual work performance which could be exemplary with an excellent skills set. These are what I’d be interested in rather than what they get up to in their private lives. He’s not company property

    We are not going to fire you, we are just not going to renew your contract due to the downturn in business. We are not going to make ongoing training "available to you", which is essential to people in IT. We are going to give you a lot of jobs that involve travelling to a married man with young family. We wont get rid of you but we will give you every opportunity to find employment elsewhere. We also have a list of minor incidents we would like to talk about.

    IF they are going to get rid of you they will find which ever way they will. Some companies have whole departments for this


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    #89
    charlietheminxx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭charlietheminxx


    Well let's look at this from the perspective of the other person involved. They went to a Christmas party, they carried on the celebrations with a couple of workmates and then one of their workmates assaulted them to the point the Gardai got involved and arrested the workmate. We don't know how bad the assault was or who started the fight, but would you be happy to go into work and sit opposite a person who attacked you?

    What are the workplace supposed to do if the other person is pressing charges against the OP (which seems may be the case) for assault? What do they do if the other person has applied for a protection order against the OP?


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    #90
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,866 ✭✭✭daheff


    Maci Zealous Veranda wrote: »
    Lots of people in this thread have never read a work contract...

    just because something is in a work contract doesnt make it legal or enforceable.

    Plenty of companies try it on, but when push comes to shove cannot make it stick.


    take the no poaching other staff or working for competitor clauses. not a hope of standing up in court.


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    #91
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    smelly sock wrote: »
    If i were the manager / HR executive id be steering well clear of this one.

    You may well do, but if if other employees are going to leave the company or the company is going to get a bad rep then it is a company problem. There is a certain call center in Cork that no entertainment venue will take a booking from because the destroy venues. You want to work for a company like that?


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