Don't fall asleep

James Brown

Wibbs wrote: »

Nah, it's just more of the all too usual self esteem issues with some around our past and how terrible we were. You'll see examples of it when say an Indian woman is gang raped and murdered by a bunch of subhumans and as sure as night follows day you'll have someone come along and say "well we did the same in the past!!" or variances of same and among some of the more delicate of mind will even claim we're really no different today and we'd be raping and murdering women if we got half the chance. I call these people morons, or damaged. Ironically though the Church is a dead duck, the sackcloth and ashes remain. No wonder they found it so easy to mould us for so long.

Nope. The op said 'new Ireland' like such a thing would have been unheard of previously.

ILoveYourVibes

various artistes wrote: »

A sexual assault committed by a foreign national is easily worthy of greater scrutiny than one committed by a native as it represents a failure of quality control in our migration policy.

- how did he enter the country? Illegally? A spurious asylum claim? If it's so dangerous to be gay in Algeria how did he presumably survive there into his 30's?
- did he undergo any sort of background checks?
- was he legally here? If he was in such dire financial straits that he was homeless why was he allowed to stay here?
- was he admitted under some reloaction programme, despite the disaster it has been in Germany, Sweden etc (being Algerian, he likely wasn't)

A sexual assault by a native can only provoke soul searching if he

a- has commited a serious offence before and should have been in prison, or

b- had told mental health services he was liable to commit such a crime and was not treated

So irish men are allowed rape nothin to see here?

We don't soul search and reevaluate for Irish rapists. oh ok

osarusan

Wibbs wrote: »

Nah, it's just more of the all too usual self esteem issues with some around our past and how terrible we were. You'll see examples of it when say an Indian woman is gang raped and murdered by a bunch of subhumans and as sure as night follows day you'll have someone come along and say "well we did the same in the past!!" or variances of same and among some of the more delicate of mind will even claim we're really no different today and we'd be raping and murdering women if we got half the chance. I call these people morons, or damaged. Ironically though the Church is a dead duck, the sackcloth and ashes remain. No wonder they found it so easy to mould us for so long.

It doesn't have anything to do with any of that though.

Lets not kid ourselves here, the only reason this thread was started is because the rapist is an immigrant.

People are reacting to the 'new Ireland' bollocks.

James Brown

various artistes wrote: »

Here's an interesting bit.

Not one of the people who thanked the first post, thanked the Deport one.


Given the first post was at 15:03, and the second was at 15:06, it's unlikely that users iloveyourvibes, Matt Barrett, odhinn and Stark didn't see the second one.

So just to reiterate- these four users agree with some bull**** that such activity was commonplace by priests up until the early 90's, so we shoudln't throw stones in glass houses.

On a post suggesting, simply, deport, these four individuals didn't see fit to hit the post like button.

**** me.

Personally there was nothing to it.

I did thank Johnny's

"Back to Algeria with him."

Now what do I win?

By the way, do you think Feminists are following you?

ILoveYourVibes

osarusan wrote: »

Lets not kid ourselves here, the only reason this thread was started is because the rapist is an immigrant.

I don't believe that. Its a horrendous crime. I think it would be anyway. I don't think the OP started it for that reason at all.

osarusan

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So irish men are allowed rape nothin to see here?

We don't soul search and reevaluate for Irish rapists. oh ok

You have plagued this forum for far too long with your horsesh!t posts.

Feisar

We all have the “right” to fall asleep and expect to wake up OK but as the ref says, “protect yourself at all times”

Triangle

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Forget rugby player ..Say the victim was a woman and the man convicted ..

'People would say she drank herself into that state and fell asleep by the side of the road. My god how stupid etc. Terrible thing but my god that was unwise'

But on the other hand ..'a man should have the right to fall asleep and be drunk to the point of being unconscious in the streets lying the dark and not be raped'

I don't think anyone would say this, and if they thought it then they need help.
No-one should be sexually assaulted ever.

This case is a open and shut case with proper evidence. When there's no evidence and only one person's word against another - then it's a more complex issue.

ILoveYourVibes

Feisar wrote: »

We all have the “right” to fall asleep and expect to wake up OK but as the ref says, “protect yourself at all times”

Most men have drunk to the point at which they can't.Most Irish men will do it this weekend lets be honest.

ILoveYourVibes

Triangle wrote: »

I don't think anyone would say this, and if they thought it then they need help.
No-one should be sexually assaulted ever.

This case is a open and shut case with proper evidence. When there's no evidence and only one person's word against another - then it's a more complex issue.

Hypothetical cases then. Women / female victims are treated differently.

various artistes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So irish men are allowed rape nothin to see here?

We don't soul search and reevaluate for Irish rapists. oh ok

Ireland doesn't have a rape culture despite what mutants like Coppinger claim. So no, it doesn't really cause us to doubt our culture and society.

You have loons who blame the Ana Kriegel case on the internet, conveniently forgetting that these sort of incidents have been happening once every 15- 20 years in Ireland since time immemorial. Variously blamed on the internet (today), violent video rentals (80's), rock/ metal (70's).

blade1

Your Face wrote: »

Probably because be pleaded guilty and he stated he struggled with his sexuality in Algeria.


Yep.

What has struggling with his sexuality got to do with raping people?

I'd say he struggles more with trying to get away with raping people.

Raconteuse

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So irish men are allowed rape nothin to see here?

Crikey. Why do you do that?

We don't soul search and reevaluate for Irish rapists. oh ok

We don't what?

James Brown

various artistes wrote: »

Ireland doesn't have a rape culture despite what mutants like Coppinger claim. So no, it doesn't really cause us to doubt our culture and society.

You have loons who blame the Ana Kriegel case on the internet, conveniently forgetting that these sort of incidents have been happening once every 15- 20 years in Ireland since time immemorial. Variously blamed on the internet (today), violent video rentals (80's), rock/ metal (70's).

Hook would be a fine example of what rape culture is. For me it's making excuses for rape, plain and simple. "Rape is bad, but....".

ILoveYourVibes

Raconteuse wrote: »

Crikey. Why do you do that?

We don't what?

yeah yeah

Raconteuse

osarusan wrote: »

It doesn't have anything to do with any of that though.

Lets not kid ourselves here, the only reason this thread was started is because the rapist is an immigrant.

People are reacting to the 'new Ireland' bollocks.

What Wibbs said is relevant though. Yeah the thread was of course started because the guy is a migrant but that's still no reason to downplay the horrific act he committed with "yeah well "We" are as bad".

ILoveYourVibes

blade1 wrote: »

What has struggling with his sexuality got to do with raping people?

I'd say he struggles more with trying to get away with raping people.

He doesn't struggle he managed to get it down to 4 yrs probably be out in two.

Raconteuse

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

yeah yeah

What? Remember your signature and don't act in such a manner.

ILoveYourVibes

Raconteuse wrote: »

What? Remember your signature and don't act in such a manner.

Don't tell me how to act. You came in the thread and came for me. I said nothing to you. Nada ..nothing ..you stirred things up not me.

I am chill af.:)

please just stop quoting me

If you don't want a respond don't attack me then.

Triangle

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Hypothetical cases then. Women / female victims are treated differently.

I think male accused are also treated differently. In fact I've seen that innocent males are victimised after they have been proven innocent.

There are a lot of emotionally driven people in this world. Either way, work needs to be done on both sides.

Raconteuse

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Don't tell me how to act. You came in the thread and came for me. I said nothing to you. Nada ..nothing ..you stirred things up not me.

I am chill af.:)

please just stop quoting me

If you don't want a respond don't attack me then.

Good Lord. If you post on a public discussion, people will engage with you whether you have addressed them or not. If you don't want to be challenged, don't make inflammatory statements like "So irish men are allowed rape nothin to see here?

We don't soul search and reevaluate for Irish rapists. oh ok".

ILoveYourVibes

Triangle wrote: »

I think male accused are also treated differently. In fact I've seen that innocent males are victimised after they have been proven innocent.

There are a lot of emotionally driven people in this world. Either way, work needs to be done on both sides.

Female rapists are not treated as seriously. Almost like its silly to suggest a woman could rape a teenage boy or a man.

Sometimes male rapists are lionized in society though. But only if they are rich successful etc. I mean look at prince andrew will never face a trial. If they are homeless or poor or not white ..they are not.

We have to learn to treat all victims rapists and accused equally.

We all know a homeless guy who rapes someone is not going to be treated the same by the justice system as Prince Andrew.

ILoveYourVibes

Raconteuse wrote: »

Good Lord. If you post on a public discussion, people will engage with you whether you have addressed them or not. If you don't want to be challenged, don't make inflammatory statements like "So irish men are allowed rape nothin to see here?

We don't soul search and reevaluate for Irish rapists. oh ok".

My point was you started bickering with me. I didn't start anything with you. You just keep provoking and attacking. Obviously people will post and respond to others but they don't always come picking fights with others as you do. I didn't start any drama you did.

I just really don't want to engage with you in particular anymore. I don't find your posts interesting or insightful.

Its nothing personal.

They don't seem to give me the itch to respond to you either so i hope you don't mind if i don't respond from now on.

CrankyHaus

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I'll never understand why courts reduce sentences when people admit guilt. He was caught on cctv and arrested soon after, he was clearly guilty so his admission shouldn't be taken into consideration.

Just wait until you hear about the sentence reduction when his lawyer says that "as a non national he'll find prison more difficult".

jay1988

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So irish men are allowed rape nothin to see here?

We don't soul search and reevaluate for Irish rapists. oh ok

Where was this said?

ILoveYourVibes

jay1988 wrote: »

Where was this said?

here

various artistes wrote: »

A sexual assault committed by a foreign national is easily worthy of greater scrutiny than one committed by a native as it represents a failure of quality control in our migration policy.

- how did he enter the country? Illegally? A spurious asylum claim? If it's so dangerous to be gay in Algeria how did he presumably survive there into his 30's?
- did he undergo any sort of background checks?
- was he legally here? If he was in such dire financial straits that he was homeless why was he allowed to stay here?
- was he admitted under some reloaction programme, despite the disaster it has been in Germany, Sweden etc (being Algerian, he likely wasn't)

A sexual assault by a native can only provoke soul searching if he

a- has commited a serious offence before and should have been in prison, or

b- had told mental health services he was liable to commit such a crime and was not treated

jay1988

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

here

So nobody said it's okay for Irish men to rape, grand, glad we cleared that up.

ILoveYourVibes

jay1988 wrote: »

So nobody said it's okay for Irish men to rape, grand, glad we cleared that up.

Clearly its being suggested its less worthy of our reflection when Irish men rape. Thus it matters less when irish men rape. Its not worth our scrutiny apparently.

Things that are not worthy of our attention tend to be thought of as less important.

I hope you can understand this.

In a way this does suggest while its not ok for Irish men to rape that we are less alarmed by it.

Snails pace

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

Deport.

Knowing our country, that would be too sensible

joseywhales

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Female rapists are not treated as seriously. Almost like its silly to suggest a woman could rape a teenage boy or a man.

Sometimes male rapists are lionized in society though. But only if they are rich successful etc. I mean look at prince andrew will never face a trial. If they are homeless or poor or not white ..they are not.

We have to learn to treat all victims rapists and accused equally.

We all know a homeless guy who rapes someone is not going to be treated the same by the justice system as Prince Andrew.

Yes I agree, all innocent and anonymous to the general public until proven guilty.

Sardonicat

joseywhales wrote: »

Yes I agree, all innocent and anonymous to the general public until proven guilty.

That's exactly how it is in Ireland.

ILoveYourVibes

joseywhales wrote: »

Yes I agree, all innocent and anonymous to the general public until proven guilty.

They are in the republic. Pick your bone with the uk.

joseywhales

I like that but why are we talking about Prince Andrew then? is he a convicted rapist?

James Brown

joseywhales wrote: »

I like that but why are we talking about Prince Andrew then? is he a convicted rapist?

Not convicted.

ILoveYourVibes

joseywhales wrote: »

I like that but why are we talking about Prince Andrew then? is he a convicted rapist?

He could literally get away with murder. Some people are untouchable.

He has been accused of rape. It may or may not be true. But he will never be subject to equality before the law. Royals are above the law.

Sovereign immunity. It extends to him unless i am mistaken.

joseywhales

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Not convicted.

So all alleged rapist and victims should be treated equally, unless they are alleged rapists in a different jurisdiction, then your moral framework allows you to infer that they are non convicted rapists.

ILoveYourVibes

joseywhales wrote: »

So all alleged rapist and victims should be treated equally, unless they are alleged rapists in a different jurisdiction, then your moral framework allows you to infer that they are non convicted rapists.

Read my above post.

dublinman1990

Holy Jesus. The algerian fella is one depraved sicko. This scumbag should have been jailed for more than 7 years. Did he not get added onto the sex offender's register in this country after his court sentence? If he has not; why not? He has ruined the life of his victim for the rest of his own life. The algerian man in this case has effectively given his victim a life sentence in that the victim is not going to be mentally capable to have a fully functioning life when he gets older after going through this horrible incident. It can have the potential here to damage him mentally for the rest of his life if he is not receiving adequate support after this ordeal.

ILoveYourVibes

dublinman1990 wrote: »

The algerian man in this case has effectively given his victim a life sentence in that the victim is not going to be mentally capable to have a fully functioning life when he gets older after going through this horrible incident. It can have the potential here to damage him mentally for the rest of his life if he does not receiving adequate support after this ordeal.

The victim will never have a normal life again.

Sardonicat

joseywhales wrote: »

I like that but why are we talking about Prince Andrew then? is he a convicted rapist?

He's not in Ireland. We can't do anything about other jurisdictions.

NewbridgeIR

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Was just wondering how AH would react if the victim had been a woman and the the culprit was, I don't know - let's say... a rugby player?

If it was a rugby player then certain people would be very critical. But the same people seem to be less vocal when the perpetrator is a gay Algerian. Sometimes outrage is selective.

joseywhales

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He could literally get away with murder. Some people are untouchable.

He has been accused of rape. It may or may not be true. But he will never be subject to equality before the law. Royals are above the law.

Sovereign immunity. It extends to him unless i am mistaken.

I have no idea, why do you think a british royal is above US extradition?

If we don't stick to our law with discipline we will end up with no framework for discussion.

We might even up spouting nonsense like this:

“When you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he’s going to tell the truth so he shouldn’t worry. Well that’s so silly because it’s somebody’s version of the truth, not the truth,” he said. Todd then replied, “Truth is truth.” “No, it isn’t truth. Truth isn’t truth,” Giuliani insisted

I can't believe he is a lawyer.

Dick_Swiveller

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So irish men are allowed rape nothin to see here?

We don't soul search and reevaluate for Irish rapists. oh ok

We have enough scumbags in this country, thanks. We don't need to be importing more.

joseywhales

Sardonicat wrote: »

He's not in Ireland. We can't do anything about other jurisdictions.

Yes I agree but if you profess that all alleged rapists be treated equally and in the same post call out a single example of an alleged rapist, it's a bit of a contradiction right?

jay1988

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Clearly its being suggested its less worthy of our reflection when Irish men rape. Thus it matters less when irish men rape. Its not worth our scrutiny apparently.

Things that are not worthy of our attention tend to be thought of as less important.

I hope you can understand this.

In a way this does suggest while its not ok for Irish men to rape that we are less alarmed by it.

The only person suggesting any of that is you, you seem to have some weird agenda here.

Gynoid

Say if an Irish person was working in Australia on a visa, or even say if they got a residency visa and even got an Australian passport and lived there for years etc. And then say they assaulted someone in the street in the manner this person assaulted the victim, or even assaulted them much less, I would not even bat an eyelid if I read in the papers "Irish person deported from Australia for assault." In fact I would expect it, and would be ashamed of the person disgracing his homeland in such a way.

But yet one is not allowed to think this way about certain immigrants here and guess why not - it is the vile racism of low expectations that gives certain peoples a free ride because of indulgent twisted paternalism and sublimated condescension.

People would not think twice if a Russian who had got residency here was fcuked out for crime like this, but they get up on their high horses to deflect away such harsh treatment of immigrants from certain places by saying idiocies like - sure we are all raping bolloxes since forever - because they have actual internalised racism and dont want to treat that bollox just the exact same as any other bollox. (Thats when they are not twisting words in postmodern sophistries to try and prove nations and races dont exist.)

James Brown

joseywhales wrote: »

So all alleged rapist and victims should be treated equally, unless they are alleged rapists in a different jurisdiction, then your moral framework allows you to infer that they are non convicted rapists.

What are you on about? You're giving out to me over stuff you inferred.
I'd say the lad caught on CCTV is guilty, but let the man have a trial. I'd say Andrew's stories sound made up and he was pals with a child molester and stayed over at the house where children were raped and was in a photo with a girl he claimed he never met and the like, but, it'll never see the inside of a court so....

dublinman1990

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The victim will never have a normal life again.

That's true. Whatever his circumstances; some areas of his life will not be a great one if he wanted to start a family or have kids etc. He has already become suicidal after he went through this ordeal already. He is definitely worth a lot more to society as an individual after he opened up about his mental health struggles in the public eye, while going through this court case, when compared to that sick individual who carried out his horrific act on him. I hope the victim gets all the support he needs from his loved ones in the lead up to Christmas because he will love to have it.

Irish Guitarist

He's a foreigner and apparently he has schizophrenia which means you're a racist if you call him a scumbag.

One eyed Jack

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

He's a foreigner and apparently he has schizophrenia which means you're a racist if you call him a scumbag.

One could only be accused of being racist or bigoted if they implied that this particular scumbag did what he did as a consequence of either being a foreigner or schizophrenic. The only reason he appears to have done what he did is because he’s a scumbag who took advantage of a vulnerable person when he had the opportunity.

The thread title is shìte too tbh, falling asleep doesn’t cause anyone to be raped. Another person choosing to rape them, is what causes a person to be raped.