This is a thread about the 2020 Six Nations, formerly the Five Nations

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Has anyone brought up Make Vunipola sexaully assaulting Tadhg Furling yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QgCJ-97tw8

James Lowe taking the opportunity to explain to Furlong how the break down works!

jacothelad

swiwi_ wrote: »

It was a bit of a dick move really. As in it really was a dick move. A little to the right looking at the images.

Maybe he 'dresses' to the right....:D

Paul Smeenus

salmocab wrote: »

Thank god I thought I’d been playing it wrong all those years when I read venjurs post.

Is it definitely rugby you've been playing, Venjur?

I mean, does it happen on a grassy pitch in the open, or the back room of a pub with rubber sheets on the floor, for example?

salmocab

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Is it definitely rugby you've been playing, Venjur?

I mean, does it happen on a grassy pitch in the open, or the back room of a pub with rubber sheets on the floor, for example?

Rugby’s the one where you park up at night and flash your lights once for an ass slap?

swiwi_

jacothelad wrote: »

Maybe he 'dresses' to the right....:D

In any case it’s pleasing to see World Rugby taking contact to the head seriously.

Anjobe

swiwi_ wrote: »

In any case it’s pleasing to see World Rugby taking contact to the head seriously.

Unless its contact to Tuilagi's head? His own red card was fully justified but inconsistency infuriates supporters and makes it so much more difficult for players.

BOHSBOHS

Lawes "tackle" on AWJ
I remember noting at the time that he was very lucky to get away with it

https://www.ruck.co.uk/courtney-lawes-tackle-on-alun-wyn-jones/

you can use that video to see the other incidents
Marler fondle @ 7:43 matchclock
Tuilagi tackle @ ~74 mins

Parkes tackle @~35:34

lawred2

BOHSBOHS wrote: »

Lawes "tackle" on AWJ
I remember noting at the time that he was very lucky to get away with it

https://www.ruck.co.uk/courtney-lawes-tackle-on-alun-wyn-jones/

hilarious article

straight into instagram shots of their partners

ffs

razorblunt

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Parkes did try to wrap properly IIRC so may not have met the red card threshold?

Meant for a Yellow as he hit head first (though probably with his own head).


I saw a clip there from BBC Cymru where an ex captain called Marler egotistical and narcissistic and that they should charge him for stupidity alone.

Marler won't get any mitigation away from 12 weeks given his comments now or for both his previous incidents and comments about the whole citing process.

Anjobe

BOHSBOHS wrote: »

Lawes "tackle" on AWJ
I remember noting at the time that he was very lucky to get away with it

https://www.ruck.co.uk/courtney-lawes-tackle-on-alun-wyn-jones/

you can use that video to see the other incidents
Marler fondle @ 7:43 matchclock
Tuilagi tackle @ ~74 mins

Are we sure that's the incident Lawes was cited for? Lawes appears to go over AWJ as he ducks and then catches him with his knee. Hard to see that as a clear red card - could be a cheap shot or could be a completely accidental collision. There was another incident in the game where Lawes hit Jones from behind slightly late, I thought that was what the citing was for.

razorblunt

BOHSBOHS wrote: »

Lawes "tackle" on AWJ
I remember noting at the time that he was very lucky to get away with it

https://www.ruck.co.uk/courtney-lawes-tackle-on-alun-wyn-jones/

you can use that video to see the other incidents
Marler fondle @ 7:43 matchclock
Tuilagi tackle @ ~74 mins

For AWJ I just seem to remember he was holding his neck/head for a bit after that. Just before Ewels smashed him from behind, late, without the ball.

Anjobe

razorblunt wrote: »

Meant for a Yellow as he hit head first (though probably with his own head).

Initial contact between the tackler's head or shoulder and the ball carrier's head with high degree of danger (e.g. attempted dominate tackle) is a red according to World Rugby's decision making framework for high tackles. Wrapping the arm is not one of the mitigations listed for high tackles.

Yeah_Right

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Marler situation is an interesting one, and a challenging one to walk a reasonable line on.

I'll be honest, when it happened I burst out laughing. Side splitting laughter.

I took it as two former tour mates with one engaging in complete ****housery that they'd both laugh about afterwards. Know your audience type situation which while still not appropriate is not as damning as common sexual assault.

If I slapped someone's ass in a nightclub, I'd potentially be in a good deal of trouble. But every weekend in every rugby match there is barely an unslapped arse. For good or for I'll, Rugby has cultural elements that wouldn't be acceptable in normal society. Marler was probably in his opinion being juvenile and a wind up merchant at worst. I don't think it registers with him that this is being seen by many as a sex offence.

I was interested in Alun-Wyn's response. He's smart and a good communicator and he made no attempt to hide his annoyance. I was definitely wrong with my initial impression about two tour buddies and an inside joke.

He spoke well, didn't downplay it but also didn't in anyway suggest he felt like a victim. His response was definitely that reasonable line I was looking for and if anyone hasn't seen his comments they are worth a listen.

I have to admit that I laughed as well. I just thought "Marler being Marler". He's a bit of a clown. Definitely a WUM. I actually quite like him based on some of the interviews I've seen and read. My wife's reaction was very different. She thought it was disgusting.

I don't think he should get 12 weeks for it. Maybe a couple of weeks. I would have preferred a YC for being a dick.

Someone mentioned his tweets. What did he say?

Kevski

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I have to admit that I laughed as well. I just thought "Marler being Marler". He's a bit of a clown. Definitely a WUM. I actually quite like him based on some of the interviews I've seen and read. My wife's reaction was very different. She thought it was disgusting.

I don't think he should get 12 weeks for it. Maybe a couple of weeks. I would have preferred a YC for being a dick.

Someone mentioned his tweets. What did he say?

https://twitter.com/joemarler/status/1236725151342919689?s=21

Yeah_Right

Kevski wrote: »

https://twitter.com/joemarler/status/1236725151342919689?s=21

That's funny.

blackwhite

BOHSBOHS wrote: »

Lawes "tackle" on AWJ
I remember noting at the time that he was very lucky to get away with it

https://www.ruck.co.uk/courtney-lawes-tackle-on-alun-wyn-jones/

you can use that video to see the other incidents
Marler fondle @ 7:43 matchclock
Tuilagi tackle @ ~74 mins

Parkes tackle @~35:34

Lawes and Tuilagi don't seem a whole lot different in terms of intent.

Team mates makes a tackle, then come in and take a cheap shot with shoulder/arm tucked.

Almost like they'd been trained to do it :cool:

sydthebeat

blackwhite wrote: »

Lawes and Tuilagi don't seem a whole lot different in terms of intent.

Team mates makes a tackle, then come in and take a cheap shot with shoulder/arm tucked.

Almost like they'd been trained to do it :cool:

eddie jones literally described this as "kill the tackle"

you can be 100% sure its coached

sullivlo

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I have to admit that I laughed as well. I just thought "Marler being Marler". He's a bit of a clown. Definitely a WUM. I actually quite like him based on some of the interviews I've seen and read. My wife's reaction was very different. She thought it was disgusting.

I don't think he should get 12 weeks for it. Maybe a couple of weeks. I would have preferred a YC for being a dick.

Someone mentioned his tweets. What did he say?

This appears to be a common theme. Some men laugh it off. Most women are appalled. I can't speak for all women but from my perspective, if anyone came up to me mid-game and tickled my boobs or crotch I would be absolutely livid. I don't know a single woman who hasn't had an incident whereby somebody, usually a male, has groped them without their consent.

It might seem extreme, but seeing the incident and seeing it normalised and joked about by people, makes a mockery of genuine incidents. What some people consider "locker room talk" or "banter", actually constitutes something seriously distressing for others.

I'm not sure if it's a male/female perspective or not, but I was appalled by the incident.

Buer

Marler appears to have deleted his entire Twitter account.

He's quite cavalier generally from what I can discern given his previous international retirement at 28. If this goes badly for him, I wouldn't be surprised to see him say screw it and look outside of England for a contract when this one comes to an end in a year.

Christy42

Buer wrote: »

Marler appears to have deleted his entire Twitter account.

He's quite cavalier generally from what I can discern given his previous international retirement at 28. If this goes badly for him, I wouldn't be surprised to see him say screw it and look outside of England for a contract when this one comes to an end in a year.

You would have to say red. The best case scenario for Marler is he was trying to start a fight to get Jones sent off. That is the best scenario I can see.

You could also see them going the sexual assault route and a very long ban. It wasn't meant that way but it would ensure that it wouldn't happen again. Not like Marler would have much of a defense here either to counter them.

Former Former

Buer wrote: »

Marler appears to have deleted his entire Twitter account.

He's quite cavalier generally from what I can discern given his previous international retirement at 28. If this goes badly for him, I wouldn't be surprised to see him say screw it and look outside of England for a contract when this one comes to an end in a year.

Good. F**k him.

Like, this is the same man who was suspended for racist abuse in a Six Nations game a couple of years ago. That was waved away as bantz and sh1thousing too.

Now there's this. Even if you don't want to call it sexual assault, fine, it's still grabbing someone else by the crotch. I don't know what he tweeted but I'm guessing it wasn't a contrite apology.

He needs a long ban and then if he decides he's going to France or Japan, then good riddance.

sullivlo

sullivlo wrote: »

This appears to be a common theme. Some men laugh it off. Most women are appalled. I can't speak for all women but from my perspective, if anyone came up to me mid-game and tickled my boobs or crotch I would be absolutely livid. I don't know a single woman who hasn't had an incident whereby somebody, usually a male, has groped them without their consent.

It might seem extreme, but seeing the incident and seeing it normalised and joked about by people, makes a mockery of genuine incidents. What some people consider "locker room talk" or "banter", actually constitutes something seriously distressing for others.

I'm not sure if it's a male/female perspective or not, but I was appalled by the incident.

I think the overwhelming majority of people would be appalled to see a man grab a woman or another man in a similar way in almost any circumstance.

This just happens to be one of a very small number of instances where you couldn't summarily rule out the possibility that both people involved would laugh it off.

That's not to say it's acceptable behavior on the pitch, just that context could change the nature of the interaction.

Buer

Former Former wrote: »

Now there's this. Even if you don't want to call it sexual assault, fine, but it's still grabbing someone else by the crotch. I don't know what he tweeted but I'm guessing it wasn't a contrite apology.

I think the precise wording was: "Boll*x. Absolute boll*x".

prawnsambo

Buer wrote: »

I think the precise wording was: "Boll*x. Absolute boll*x".

Deleted or not, the internet always has ways. Tweet and context here:

Dave_The_Sheep

Suppose we'll see how much a nice apology (so much as is possible after that tweet) and a sharp suit is really worth.
I wonder will AWJ go there as a character witness or whatever they call them at citing appearances. Doubt it.

Zzippy

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Suppose we'll see how much a nice apology (so much as is possible after that tweet) and a sharp suit is really worth.
I wonder will AWJ go there as a character witness or whatever they call them at citing appearances. Doubt it.

I wonder what biscuits he'll bring. My money is on hob knobs.

jammiedodgers

Zzippy wrote: »

I wonder what biscuits he'll bring. My money is on hob knobs.

Ginger nuts

clsmooth

When’s he up? Tomorrow? A great opportunity for World Rugby to really set their stall out with this type of nonsense. Don’t think they can reduce it as out of character after that tweet. Think he’ll get away lightly with 12 weeks. Not sure it’ll make much practical difference at this stage with the season looking likely to be cancelled.

Zzippy

clsmooth wrote: »

When’s he up? Tomorrow? A great opportunity for World Rugby to really set their stall out with this type of nonsense. Don’t think they can reduce it as out of character after that tweet. Think he’ll get away lightly with 12 weeks. Not sure it’ll make much practical difference at this stage with the season looking likely to be cancelled.

It would be 12 game weeks. If the season gets cancelled, there are no game weeks and any suspension would carry into next season.

Yeah_Right

sullivlo wrote: »

This appears to be a common theme. Some men laugh it off. Most women are appalled. I can't speak for all women but from my perspective, if anyone came up to me mid-game and tickled my boobs or crotch I would be absolutely livid. I don't know a single woman who hasn't had an incident whereby somebody, usually a male, has groped them without their consent.

It might seem extreme, but seeing the incident and seeing it normalised and joked about by people, makes a mockery of genuine incidents. What some people consider "locker room talk" or "banter", actually constitutes something seriously distressing for others.

I'm not sure if it's a male/female perspective or not, but I was appalled by the incident.

I think part of the reason that I find it funny was that I played a sport where testicle grabbing was not uncommon. To the point I wore a cricket box when I played.

Yeah_Right

Former Former wrote: »

Good. F**k him.

Like, this is the same man who was suspended for racist abuse in a Six Nations game a couple of years ago. That was waved away as bantz and sh1thousing too.

That was such BS. There was nothing racist about what he said.

prawnsambo

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Suppose we'll see how much a nice apology (so much as is possible after that tweet) and a sharp suit is really worth.
I wonder will AWJ go there as a character witness or whatever they call them at citing appearances. Doubt it.

To be fair (and part of me doesn't want to be), that tweet may just as much have been a disbelieving reaction to the potential ban he's facing than any kind of tongue-in-cheek response in general or in particular.

stephen_n

Am I right in thinking this is a 6N hearing, not a world rugby hearing? I know 6N is run under the remit of world rugby, but it’s not actually the governing body doing the sentencing.

prawnsambo

stephen_n wrote: »

Am I right in thinking this is a 6N hearing, not a world rugby hearing? I know 6N is run under the remit of world rugby, but it’s not actually the governing body doing the sentencing.

Yep.

Former Former

Yeah_Right wrote: »

That was such BS. There was nothing racist about what he said.

"Get back in your caravan gypsy boy"??

Call me a snowflake but you could see how people might construe that...

Kevski

10 week ban for Marler. I wonder what brought about the 2 week reduction...

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9pR7wGBzqA/?igshid=1pm39w2aigcm0

Burkie1203

Kevski wrote: »

10 week ban for Marler. I wonder what brought about the 2 week reduction...

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9pR7wGBzqA/?igshid=1pm39w2aigcm0

Hob nobs and custard creams

fitz

Kevski wrote: »

10 week ban for Marler. I wonder what brought about the 2 week reduction...

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9pR7wGBzqA/?igshid=1pm39w2aigcm0

Weak response imo.

sydthebeat

fitz wrote: »

Weak response imo.

in a week where a hay maker of a punch gets 3 weeks, i think fondling a genital is apt enough at 10 weeks

fitz

sydthebeat wrote: »

in a week where a hay maker of a punch gets 3 weeks, i think fondling a genital is apt enough at 10 weeks

I'd hoped they'd make an example of him and give him more than 12.
But if you not doing that, why reduce it from the entry point?
It's not like Marler is contrite, his tweet showed that. It's not like he has a clean record.
This knocking a couple of weeks off regardless just makes the whole disciplinary process seem soft imo.

sydthebeat

fitz wrote: »

I'd hoped they'd make an example of him and give him more than 12.
But if you not doing that, why reduce it from the entry point?
It's not like Marler is contrite, his tweet showed that. It's not like he has a clean record.
This knocking a couple of weeks off regardless just makes the whole disciplinary process seem soft imo.

Until you read the committee decision, everything is hypothetical. It may have been that there was no physical damage caused?

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

Until you read the committee decision, everything is hypothetical. It may have been that there was no physical damage caused?

The Disciplinary Committee found that Marler had committed an act of foul play (an infringement of Law 9.27) and that it had warranted a red card, so the citing complaint was upheld.
The Disciplinary Committee found that the act of foul play warranted a low-end entry point (12 weeks’ suspension) and reduced that by three weeks to take account of mitigating factors (including good character and remorse) but increased it by one week to take account of his most recent disciplinary record. Marler is therefore suspended for 10 weeks and, given his playing schedule, is free to resume playing on Monday, 8 June 2020. He was reminded of his right of appeal.

usual bull**** reasons for diminishing, but as you say the same would have applied for the punch. As it does in all cases.

stephen_n

English chicken out on Jones again.

Squidgy Black

"The Rugby Football Union does not condone comments that in any way undermine the integrity of match officials, who are central to the sport and its values,” an RFU statement read.

“We have discussed with England head coach Eddie Jones the nature of the comments he made to the media in the immediate aftermath of a dramatic finish to the England versus Wales Guinness Six Nations match on Saturday, and have made it clear that such comments are not in line with the values of the sport or the RFU.

“Eddie and the RFU regret any implication that Ben O’Keefe was biased in his decision making. We have outlined this position to the tournament organisers the Six Nations and World Rugby, who will pass on our apologies to Ben O’Keefe and the match officials team.

“In the meantime, Eddie Jones and the RFU have proposed a high-level discussion forum with World Rugby to help achieve greater general alignment between coaches and match officials.

“All parties are satisfied that the matter has been dealt with appropriately, are confident that further action would be taken should such a situation occur in the future, and consider the matter to be closed.”

AdamD

Seems a bit mental that Marler gets 10 weeks while the French guy gets 3 for a full on punch. And Tuilagi gets 4 for a horrific tackle

stephen_n

Squidgy Black wrote: »

“In the meantime, Eddie Jones and the RFU have proposed a high-level discussion forum with World Rugby to help achieve greater general alignment between coaches and match officials.”

In other words, it’s not our fault and we need to look at why match officials are disagreeing with how we break the law.

Cork Boy 53

Wales -Scotland match still going ahead in a full stadium in Cardiff on Saturday. Utter madness especially considering the Pro 14 has been suspended and the Champions Cup and Challenge Cup will probably soon go the same way. What in the name of God are the Brits thinking?

BonnieSituation

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Wales -Scotland match still going ahead in a full stadium in Cardiff on Saturday. Utter madness especially considering the Pro 14 has been suspended and the Champions Cup and Challenge Cup will probably soon go the same way. What in the name of God are the Brits thinking?

They're not.

Until Mikel Arteta had the virus confirmed this evening the EPL were fully on with the weekend's fixtures going ahead on "government advice/best practice". Only after his diagnosis and the postponement of Arsenal v Brighton have they decided to maybe reconsider and have a meeting tomorrow.

They're trying their hardest to be the new Italy.

On a selfish level I'll take any live sport this weekend.

Ardillaun

AdamD wrote: »

Seems a bit mental that Marler gets 10 weeks while the French guy gets 3 for a full on punch. And Tuilagi gets 4 for a horrific tackle

Some opinions (below) based on zero knowledge of the rules:

If it had been anyone else but AWJ, there could have been a mass brawl after Marler’s stunt (imagine Haouas in similar circumstances), with multiple red cards for Wales. It’s a humiliating thing to go through that will be brought up years hence, often as a ‘joke’ of some sort. No rugby player signs up for that. Marler’s punishment is too lenient.

The punch by Haouas was a clear violation but he was provoked and knocked around a bit beforehand, and he didn’t seriously hurt anybody. He’s also a young man, yer honour, trying to mend his ways.

Tuilagi’s tackle was dangerous. That second man in hit to the head/neck area can do horrible damage. He did take a very high tackle himself earlier in the game.

Digifriendly

These punishments surely will have no effect on respective international teams as no 6N games until autumn.