Warning in soccer forum

Jurgen The German

Hi.

I received a warning in the soccer forum from thanks for the fish for apparently accusing someone of trolling. I appealed to the mod and he has advised to bring it here.

PM's as follows.

Dear Jurgen The German,

You have been warned for a breach of the forum charter.

Every forum on Boards.ie has a charter which lists any specific rules that forum may have and it is really important that you read this as it'll help you familiarise yourself with how that forum works. You should also understand that every forum is different and that charters are how you learn the differences.

Please see the Boards.ie FAQ for more details.



Thanx 4 The Fish

Moderator Note

Accusations of trolling are in breach of the charter.

Your post:Quote: Jurgen The German
Quote: BDI
15 points from the next 21 games will get us two more transfer windows and the squad getting sorted out considerably.


15 points out of a potential 63?

So leaving us on 39 for the season which is enough to mathematically not get relegated I believe.

And that's supposed to be acceptable to someone that is allegedly a fan of the club?

I've suspected your intentions in here have been less than genuine.

Those suspicions have now been confirmed.

Thanks for that, good to know.

Excuse me?

Where did I accuse him of trolling, specifically, spell it out please.

I said I suspected his intentions were less than genuine, that is not an accusation of trolling.

I know you have a massive problem with me because I had the audacity to call out your bullying, bias moderation publicly but of all the cards you have given me this is the most preposterous.

I would like it rescinded immediately.

You said that you suspected their intentions and then went on to say that your suspicions were confirmed, more than just I thought that this was an accusation of trolling.

I have no problem with you, you barely register unless a post is reported and brought up for review. This post was put up for review in the moderators forum in order to avoid further claims of bias etc.

I am not of a mind to rescind immediately as you have demanded, I suggest that you pursue through DRP.

Thanx

Saying some ones intentions are less than genuine is absolutely not accusing them of trolling, its saying their intentions are less than genuine, you have made the leap to put two and two together so you can card me.

Virtually my first post back in the forum you carded me in a rush to report it despite there being absolutely nothing reportable or cardable in it. I've been targeted by you since day one.

You then carded me for back seat modding yet surprisingly a number of posts I reported doing the exact same thing but even more blatantly were not actioned. I even PM'd you about one of them and you didnt even have the courtesy to reply, strange that, no bias of course, mods cant read every post, wink wink.

You are deliberately and meticulously singling me out just like you did under my last account. You consistently ignore posts made by certain posters even when they are reported and clearly against the charter yet you try and say there is no bias in the forum.

Beasty even had to step in at one point to card someone in the liverpool thread because nothing had been done for more than a day, but there is no bias at all, dont make me laugh.

You are a bully, nothing more.

The post that was carded related to a poster saying they would be happy if United got 39 points for the season. 39 points is the lowest possible amount a team can achieve to avoid relegation.

I have suspected that this individual is not a United fan for a while and to see them make a post saying they would be happy to just about avoid relegation illustrates that I was correct in my suspicions, there is no way in hell any self respecting fan of a number of clubs would be happy to just avoid relegation, never mind a club of Uniteds stature so me saying on thread that his intentions were less than genuine is me saying I dont believe he is a fan of the club. I even address that very same point in the post.

Saying someone is not a fan of a team is not an accusation of trolling, its saying i dont believe someone is a fan of the team however fish has once again twisted my post to make it fit the crime in order to card me.

Similar to the "small frogba" card he gave me, he made up the rule about Mangling a name for comedic effect then when he realised that was fairly shambolic he made the leap to add on that I was being racist, just so he could card me.

The same thing is applying here, he is misrepresenting what is being said to try and justify his bullying, biased and downright shoddy moderation of the forum.

I'd like this card and the subsequent two week ban reviewed please as I do not believe it is in any way fair.

Beasty

Please do not bring up that "small frogba" issue back here. It has been dealt with in the DRP and I decreed it was an abusive term. Now drop that altogether in this thread

I will alert the CMods to this appeal

Jurgen The German

Beasty wrote: »

Please do not bring up that "small frogba" issue back here. It has been dealt with in the DRP and I decreed it was an abusive term. Now drop that altogether in this thread

I will alert the CMods to this appeal

Noted, thanks.

Steve

I'll take a look.

Steve

Hi Jurgen The German,

I have looked into this and have the following to say:

Your post included:
"I've suspected your intentions in here have been less than genuine.
Those suspicions have now been confirmed."

Having looked at it in isolaton, that can either be interpreted as trolling to illicit a reaction -or - a personal dig at another user. Either way it's a rule breach and so I don't see a reason to overturn the mod decision.


The other claim you made above was:
"You are deliberately and meticulously singling me out just like you did under my last account."

I have discussed this with the mod concerned and he has provided me with enough recent examples of similar posts from other users being actioned in a similar way that I am satisfied that there is no basis to the claim that you were singled out in this case. (Admins can see this where I asked for it in soccer mods).

In light of the above, I see no reason to overturn the mod decision.

You may appeal my decision to admin if you wish.

Jurgen The German

Steve wrote: »

Hi Jurgen The German,

I have looked into this and have the following to say:

Your post included:
"I've suspected your intentions in here have been less than genuine.
Those suspicions have now been confirmed."

Having looked at it in isolaton, that can either be interpreted as trolling to illicit a reaction -or - a personal dig at another user. Either way it's a rule breach and so I don't see a reason to overturn the mod decision.

Hi Steve

How is it trolling or a personal dig? There is nothing personal in it and it is questioning a persons posts which is not against the rules the last time I checked? I am merely questioning this persons motivations for posting in the manner they have been posting. This is purely and simply arbitrary interpretation of the charter in order to apply a card to me, which leads me on to your next point.

Steve wrote: »

The other claim you made above was:
"You are deliberately and meticulously singling me out just like you did under my last account."

I have discussed this with the mod concerned and he has provided me with enough recent examples of similar posts from other users being actioned in a similar way that I am satisfied that there is no basis to the claim that you were singled out in this case. (Admins can see this where I asked for it in soccer mods).

I've no doubt you can point to posts that have been carded for users blatantly calling another user a troll however I did not do that. I questioned whether he was a United fan at all. Below are a small selection of multiple posts, all directed at a liverpool fan in the liverpool thread, none of which were actioned.

thanks.

Good luck tomorrow night in the Europa  

Your team is playing thursday

I remember the time you were bullied for standing up for your beloved Manchester United after people called them Man u

Yeah.. Hard to see Utd catching them 

These posts are blatantly saying a user is not who they are purporting to be but none of them were actioned yet I am.

And to further support my claims of bias.

Back seat modding and attacking a poster. It was reported by me, no action taken.

As much as I agree on the "don't bite" perspective for the most part, there's an even more suitable approach that involves a mod actually being active in this forum for a change, if that interests any of them. People are only taking the bait because it's been allowed to go on for so long without any fear of a sanction.
The sad reality is that this type of post is more likely to be carded these days than any actual trolling.

A lot of good posters who don't get involved in any of this stuff are posting less than ever, so if the end goal is to drive traffic away from the site, fantastic job done by The GOB and company.

Back seat modding, reported by me, no action taken. I even PM'd Fish the link to the post but unsurprisingly it was ignored.

Christ on a bike, leave it out. Either have your arguments in the appropriate thread or have them by PM or don't have them at all. 

Post by me in the United thread, carded by Fish, for back seat modding.

Hilariously bad.

A poster that was carded for trolling does the EXACT SAME THING on a number of occasions after they were carded and nothing happens.

Elsewhere multiple people accuse posters of multi accounting which is against the charter and nothing is done.

There are mods around here that are as useful as a speeding van where everyone knows the camera is turned off. The aesthetics of doing a job is there for all to see but the action that's supposed to be behind it simply isn't.

Another post in the United thread by another user carded by Fish for back seat modding.

This really isnt funny anymore - reported as thread spoiling

Are you going to seriously sit there and say there are no biases towards me and others by Fish. Are you going to seriously say that all users are treated the same and that favoritism and massive amounts of rope are not given to certain groups? Because you cant, you really cant.

If the cmods and admins are happy to just let fish run the forum as he sees fit, because thats the way it is currently, then just come out and say it rather than this charade of fairness. Its very very clear that I am being targeted for reasons previously discussed and he is putting the boot in for the most frivilous and fabricated reasons.

My post is not trolling and it is not a personal attack so if you are not prepared to rescind the card then I respectfully request an admin review.

Jurgen The German

Just to add, before someone says other posts are of no relevance here, steve is the one that brought up other posts in an effort to try and show fishes impartiality, all I'm doing is redressing the balance.

Steve

Jurgen The German wrote: »

Hi Steve

How is it trolling or a personal dig? There is nothing personal in it and it is questioning a persons posts which is not against the rules the last time I checked?

You are, by your own admission, questioning another members club allegiance rather than their opinion or the content of their post. That makes it personal.
I might remind you that you don't have to be a United fan to post in the United thread or a Pool fan to post in the Pool thread as long as the posts are within site and forum rules.

I respectfully request an admin review.

I will ask an admin to look at this.

Jurgen The German wrote: »

Just to add, before someone says other posts are of no relevance here, steve is the one that brought up other posts in an effort to try and show fishes impartiality, all I'm doing is redressing the balance.

I questioned the mod on his impartiality and asked for links to similar posts that were actioned. I am satisfied with the evidence I was given. I cannot disclose further details or posts outside of the mod forums.

Jurgen The German

Steve wrote: »

You are, by your own admission, questioning another members club allegiance rather than their opinion or the content of their post. That makes it personal.
I might remind you that you don't have to be a United fan to post in the United thread or a Pool fan to post in the Pool thread as long as the posts are within site and forum rules.


I will ask an admin to look at this.


I questioned the mod on his impartiality and asked for links to similar posts that were actioned. I am satisfied with the evidence I was given. I cannot disclose further details or posts outside of the mod forums.

Tbf, I'm not asking you to disclose anything, I'm simply illustrating that as much as fish might try and push his impartiality, its clear that particular story has more holes than a colander as evidenced above. He carded me for BSM but didnt card two others that happen to be in the same cohort as him, despite one of the posts been brought directly to his attention.

Anyone reading this thread can clearly see what has been and continues to happen in the forum and no amount of fingers in the ears will change that.

I await admin review, thanks for your time.

Jurgen The German

Hi folks.

I appreciate it's a busy time of year and there are other matters across the site that are taking up alot of time but is it possible to get this boxed off one way or another?

Cheers.

Jurgen The German

Anyone?

Beasty

We're a bit thin on the ground at present, and the holiday season has not helped. If no-one else gets to it beforehand I'll try and have a look later on

Jurgen The German

Thanks B.

Beasty

OK, looking at this with the knowledge of certain "rumblings" in the Soccer forum about a particular poster who purports to be a Man United supporter (and to be clear I have no reason to believe otherwise, but I do know some United regulars have particular concerns about the poster) I am struggling to come up with a different analysis than the one put forward by Steve above

Your wording:
"I've suspected your intentions in here have been less than genuine.
Those suspicions have now been confirmed"
tallies with the concerns of other United regulars, and it is a clear (certainly in my mind) that you believe(d) the poster to be a troll, wanting to disrupt the thread

I even agree to some extent with the analysis you provided in the post that was carded that 39 points is really not something a "genuine" fan should be aiming for (certainly not a genuine United fan) - however that may have been something not properly thought through by the poster, or indeed a simple mistake when typing their post. That does not make them a troll. However even if they are it is not for a "regular" poster to call it out as you were doing (in, I would suggest, a not particularly unsubtle fashion). That's for the mods to look at and act as they see fit. The proper course of action, as you are fully aware, is to report such stuff.

Again I appreciate there is some frustration among certain United fans, yourself included, about lack of consistency in moderation of the Soccer forum. As you know I have acknowledged that is the case on a number of occasions, and but for other priorities on the site we may have had a bit of time to try and address the point. I fully understand the frustrations, which are compounded when a club's greatest rivals are doing particularly well. It is something I want us to address, but TBH it's something I want us to get right and therefore feel the need to spend some time working on it. That's time I don't think we have at Admin level at present, but I would say that it has moved up the priority list

All that is going way off the specifics hare, but given concerns raised by yourself and others I thought this provided an opportunity to mention the issue is not being overlooked

Unfortunately in terms of this specific appeal I am upholding the card as I fully consider you knew exactly what you were doing when making that comment

Jurgen The German

Beasty, thanks for the coming back to me and for your candor. Tbh once Steve sided with fish I knew i was on a hiding to nothing so the card being upheld is not a surprise.

While it is moot at this point, all I can do is reaffirm that I was not calling that poster a troll, I was however absolutely questioning their allegiances, if that equates to calling someone a troll then charter should be updated to reflect that and I would fully expect that any future instances of this will be handled in the exact same manner, regardless of where they are posted and who posts it.

One thing you've mentioned that I'd like to nip in the bud. This frustration over what has been happening in the forum since fish came back into circulation is not borne of liverpool's current purple patch, they are nothing but a minor blip on my radar and the issues at United are a much bigger concern to me. I've no doubt that certain parties will try and push this notion and it's an easy story to spin however it is purely and simply a deflection tactic. This time last year the spin was people having a hair up their arse over Mr Mac being demodded, now its liverpool being top of the table, next year, unless until something actually changes, it will be something else used to excuse the conduct of those at the centre of the problems.

You call it inconsistency in the forum, when these inconsistencies continually favour one group over all others, and these inconsistencies continually apply absolute rigidity in charter application to the same posters and the same mod is at the centre of it, I call it bias. I know you or steve or whoever will never publicly call it mod bias but I find it very hard to believe that anyone reading this with any level of impartiality could genuinely say that the issues I've highlighted here and elsewhere are purely coincidental and that's the crux of what is wrong in the forum currently.

I know that I'm firmly in fishes sights and I've been going out of my way to watch my P's and Q's in the forum, obviously i need to be even more careful because it is abundantly clear that anything that can be interpreted as being against the charter will be carded, certainly where I'm concerned anyway.

I've made my point now so will leave it at that, thanks for your time and detailed response.

Beasty

I would make one further comment before marking this resolved

Questioning a poster's allegience to a club he claims to support is absolutely accusing them of trolling if you believe they are posting "under false pretences". It can only be done to wind up others in the thread (who will of course typically do support United in this case)

Jurgen The German

Beasty wrote: »

I would make one further comment before marking this resolved

Questioning a poster's allegience to a club he claims to support is absolutely accusing them of trolling if you believe they are posting "under false pretences". It can only be done to wind up others in the thread (who will of course typically do support United in this case)

Not how I'd interpret it tbh, if someone is posting in a consistently provocative manner and holding a line that is at odds with 99.99% of other people then questions will be asked of their intentions. If that's a line in the sand that mods/cmods/admins believe crosses into charter breach then so be it, I look forward to seeing the rule being applied forum wide going forward.

One last thing that has amused me, the poster in question appears to have closed their account. No more than Starfleet Student and the question mark over the Potentially Pillsbury Doughboy thanks puppet account, I'm sure it's purely coincidental.



Anyway, happy new year to you, I hopefully wont see you in here again!

Steve

To clarify this:

Jurgen The German wrote: »

Tbh once Steve sided with fish I knew i was on a hiding to nothing so the card being upheld is not a surprise.

I looked at your post in isolation and applied the forum rules to it. I also looked at you history and made a call on whether the sanction was appropriate.

At no point did I 'side with the mod' as you claim.

I have zero interest in soccer and have no idea of any of the mods or forum members allegiances, nor do I care about them.

Have a happy new year too.