Accounting fees

boombang

boombang wrote: »

I thought exactly the same thing, especially from the defensiveness I read in the responses.

You don't think the OP is being defensive? Right...

beauf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A dormant company, with beneficial ownership registration - €300 would be lower end imo.

What's the upper end?

D3V!L

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You don't think the OP is being defensive? Right...

Please elaborate

beauf

beauf wrote: »

What's the upper end?

A big four doing the same work could easily be double if not more.

beauf

boombang wrote: »

I thought exactly the same thing, especially from the defensiveness I read in the responses.

Theres a lot of criticism much of it valid but also a lot of not answering the question.

D3V!L

D3V!L wrote: »

Please elaborate

I'm assuming you know what being defensive means...

D3V!L wrote: »

Are you an accountant ?

D3V!L wrote: »

I suspect the OP got it sorted. Thanks for all your input.

D3V!L wrote: »

Thanks, I have a feeling there are a high percentage of accountants on boards.ie and I hit a nerve.

boombang

Deleted User wrote: »

You don't think the OP is being defensive? Right...

I honestly don't.

I don't think the issue is is the fee fair or in line with market prices, it's about giving notice on large price changes. I thought the OP asked a very reasonable question and got a load of additional questions in return rather than helpful replies.

boombang

boombang wrote: »

I honestly don't.

The OP is suggesting that the answers are biased because it's accountants that are answering. This has not been confirmed, but assumed by the OP. 100% defensive.

boombang wrote: »

... got a load of additional questions in return rather than helpful replies.

As any company owner will know there was an onerous requirement this year more so than prior years. I take the opposite view, it was genuine to ask for additional information. To reply it's best to be informed. The OP doesn't come across as the most knowledgeable. There are sever penalties for not completed the beneficial ownership return, and it is wholly the company owners responsibility to complete, but if you do have an accountant they will likely be informed through the CRO that their client needs to complete. In my case, both I and my accountant got the notice to file.



If he was only charged an extra €100 for the registration of beneficial ownership requirement it was the lowest charge I've heard of.

beauf

Seems like people think if some one doesn't get a quote its ok to charge them what they like.

The op made a mistake in not getting a quote. The service provider make a mistake in not warning them off increases.

Dav010

beauf wrote: »

Seems like people think if some one doesn't get a quote its ok to charge them what they like.

The op made a mistake in not getting a quote. The service provider make a mistake in not warning them off increases.

I don’t think it is reasonable to expect fees to stay static for several years, nor is it reasonable to expect the fee to not take into account increases in filing costs which are outside the professional fees charged by the accountant.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

The service provider make a mistake in not warning them off increases.

Do you believe the accountancy practice carried out the extra, EU required work without telling the OP in advance? Did the OP expect this to be done for free? What was the accountant's mistake, not assuming the OP expected free work?


The OP should look to windup the company otherwise he will keep incurring fees.

martyoo

The fee is very low but they should have informed you of the increase. I'd stick with them OP as I think you'd struggle to find another accountant that would do it for the same price.

thegetawaycar

I'm not sure I'd be too happy if my service provider suddenly added 50% on my bill without notice when I had a fee agreement in place for several years. It seems poor business practice.

I'm sure there is reason for it but it probably would make sense if the Accountant informed the customer that this years fee would be 50% more in advance of doing the work. If the OP had a contract in place saying the cost (even from years ago) and there was no addendum or update in advance I'd expect it to remain binding (unless dated).

thegetawaycar

thegetawaycar wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd be too happy if my service provider suddenly added 50% on my bill without notice when I had a fee agreement in place for several years. It seems poor business practice.

I'm sure there is reason for it but it probably would make sense if the Accountant informed the customer that this years fee would be 50% more in advance of doing the work. If the OP had a contract in place saying the cost (even from years ago) and there was no addendum or update in advance I'd expect it to remain binding (unless dated).

*Sigh*


50% sounds massive, where do I get my pitchfork - let's storm their offices.:rolleyes: This was a change from €200 to €300 not €4,000 to €6,000.


The OP was paying €200 for minimum work required for filing a tax return for a dormant company, and that's what €200 of the €300 was made up of. This year there was an extra EU mandated requirement that the accountant completed. I don't believe for a second the accountant completed this without input from the OP.


But, the OP should make a massive deal out of this with his accountant, that I'd wage considers it a pain in the hoop to manage for €200 a year, ffs! You do know accountants are allowed to drop clients, happens all the time if they are not economical.



I suppose it's good that the Devil's company is dormant, nobody has any truck with that business anymore :pac:

beauf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

*Sigh*


50% sounds massive, where do I get my pitchfork - let's storm their offices.:rolleyes: This was a change from €200 to €300 not €4,000 to €6,000.


The OP was paying €200 for minimum work required for filing a tax return for a dormant company, and that's what €200 of the €300 was made up of. This year there was an extra EU mandated requirement that the accountant completed. I don't believe for a second the accountant completed this without input from the OP.


But, the OP should make a massive deal out of this with his accountant, that I'd wage considers it a pain in the hoop to manage for €200 a year, ffs! You do know accountants are allowed to drop clients, happens all the time if they are not economical.



I suppose it's good that the Devil's company is dormant, nobody has any truck with that business anymore :pac:

I see so it's the amount that's important not the principal.

beauf

Dav010 wrote: »

I don’t think it is reasonable to expect fees to stay static for several years, nor is it reasonable to expect the fee to not take into account increases in filing costs which are outside the professional fees charged by the accountant.

Fees can go down as well as up.

The message in getting here is don't trust anyone always get quotes as they may slap on extra fees or charges on a whim without warning.

It's the same advice you give too getting work done on your car. They like to surprise customers with extra's also.

beauf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

*Sigh*


50% sounds massive, where do I get my pitchfork - let's storm their offices.:rolleyes: This was a change from €200 to €300 not €4,000 to €6,000.


.. .

You'd be horrified to know that if you're service provider changes your contract they are obliged to release you from the contract if you request it and inform you of the same. Even if it's €5

beauf

beauf wrote: »

I see so it's the amount that's important not the principal.

Materiality does matter. €200 is a nominal sum, as is €300. Not sure what the OP's Principal has to do with it, he's not at school anymore



I think there's an expectation if there is extra work being carried out there's going to be an extra fee (cheap in this instance). If (which is almost certainly true) the accountant said I've got to fill out this extra return for you and the OP said grand, and the OP didn't ask how much extra the accountant did nothing wrong. Nothing.



If you go to get your car serviced and it's normally just and oil and filter, but this year the garage says you need an oil, filter and new brakes, and you say fine without asking the price - is the garage then wrong when the bill comes back €100 more expensive (that's a rhetorical question).

beauf

beauf wrote: »

You'd be horrified to know that if you're service provider changes your contract they are obliged to release you from the contract if you request it and inform you of the same. Even if it's €5

I refer you to post 49.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Fees can go down as well as up.

The message in getting here is don't trust anyone always get quotes as they may slap on extra fees or charges on a whim without warning.

Dealing specifically with the OP, you'd have a point if he was overcharged. I think even the OP has got the message at this stage he wasn't.

thegetawaycar

Deleted User wrote: »

*Sigh*


50% sounds massive, where do I get my pitchfork - let's storm their offices.:rolleyes: This was a change from €200 to €300 not €4,000 to €6,000.


The OP was paying €200 for minimum work required for filing a tax return for a dormant company, and that's what €200 of the €300 was made up of. This year there was an extra EU mandated requirement that the accountant completed. I don't believe for a second the accountant completed this without input from the OP.


But, the OP should make a massive deal out of this with his accountant, that I'd wage considers it a pain in the hoop to manage for €200 a year, ffs! You do know accountants are allowed to drop clients, happens all the time if they are not economical.



I suppose it's good that the Devil's company is dormant, nobody has any truck with that business anymore :pac:

Good thing you *sigh* at the start, and use rolleyes like a child, throw in some hyperbole about storming offices for no reason whatsoever, very important additions.

The accountant should have contacted the OP to tell them there is a change to agreed billing. My internet provider did the same and I have the option to cancel, the same should be provided here.

I agree the price is very low, for that reason the provider should and is within their rights to say they won't perform the service at the agreed price, if the OP still wants it done at the new price then, fine. If not, they go look for a new provider.

It's extremely bad practice to carry out work and expect to be paid more than the agreed amount.

You can talk about what you believe happened and what input was needed etc... but all we actually were told is they did the same return at 50% cost increase with no warning.

If I was the OP I'd be contacting the provider to discuss and if no satisfactory resolution checking to see if the agreement before had an end date.

thegetawaycar

Deleted User wrote: »

Materiality does matter. €200 is a nominal sum, as is €300. Not sure what the OP's Principal has to do with it, he's not at school anymore



I think there's an expectation if there is extra work being carried out there's going to be an extra fee (cheap in this instance). If (which is almost certainly true) the accountant said I've got to fill out this extra return for you and the OP said grand, and the OP didn't ask how much extra the accountant did nothing wrong. Nothing.



If you go to get your car serviced and it's normally just and oil and filter, but this year the garage says you need an oil, filter and new brakes, and you say fine without asking the price - is the garage then wrong when the bill comes back €100 more expensive (that's a rhetorical question).

There is no mention of the accountant telling the OP of additional work, you are adding to his post.
If your mechanic charges E100 for oil and filter change but after doing the work tells you he also changed the brakes (or to make it match the OP, doesn't tell you anything) but charges you E200 then you are right to feel aggrieved.

thegetawaycar

thegetawaycar wrote: »

It's extremely bad practice to carry out work and expect to be paid more than the agreed amount.

...

If I was the OP I'd be contacting the provider to discuss and if no satisfactory resolution checking to see if the agreement before had an end date.

What was the agreed amount? Prior years' fees is not an agreement for current year's work, especially with extra work. What part of my #49 post do you disagree with.



Yes, I've said above the OP should demand an explanation for the fees he was charged. He'd deserve the likely outcome.

D3V!L

thegetawaycar wrote: »

There is no mention of the accountant telling the OP of additional work, you are adding to his post.
If your mechanic charges E100 for oil and filter change but after doing the work tells you he also changed the brakes (or to make it match the OP, doesn't tell you anything) but charges you E200 then you are right to feel aggrieved.

You're correct, there was no mention of extra work at all.

thegetawaycar

thegetawaycar wrote: »

There is no mention of the accountant telling the OP of additional work, you are adding to his post.
If your mechanic charges E100 for oil and filter change but after doing the work tells you he also changed the brakes (or to make it match the OP, doesn't tell you anything) but charges you E200 then you are right to feel aggrieved.

The OP thanked this post.



I'm calling BS. OP, are you saying your accountant filed your Beneficial Ownership return https://www.cro.ie/Registration/Beneficial-Ownership without your input?

mrcheez

The OP has been paying €200 to get X done every year.

Suddenly he is getting charged €300 for the same thing without warning about an increase in fees.

The OP is right to be aggrieved and this is a ridiculously unprofessional approach taken by his accountant. Fees are always agreed upfront and changes thereof need to be consented to by both parties BEFORE work is done.

This is incredibly simple.

D3V!L

D3V!L wrote: »

You're correct, there was no mention of extra work at all.

That's terrible. In this one sided story they allegedly didn't inform you of work carried out to ensure you didn't fall foul of...


If a relevant entity does not file with the RBO, it may be guilty of an offence and be liable on summary conviction to a Class A fine of up to €5,000 and on conviction on indictment to a fine of up to €500,000. Companies and societies which have not already filed with the RBO are advised to do so as a matter of urgency in order to avoid prosecution. Filing must be done online at www.rbo.gov.ie and there are no paper forms or filing fees.


I think your OP query is answered in that they didn't overcharge for the work done, but they should have informed of the extra fees.


So, you have all the information you need to request a refund. Whether you SHOULD only you know.

thegetawaycar

Deleted User wrote: »

What was the agreed amount? Prior years' fees is not an agreement for current year's work, especially with extra work. What part of my #49 post do you disagree with.



Yes, I've said above the OP should demand an explanation for the fees he was charged. He'd deserve the likely outcome.

The part of your post #49 (and the quoted one above) I disagree with is guessing that the OP was informed that extra work was being carried out.

We both have no idea of what type of agreement the OP and accountant have, I know of businesses with rolling contracts/retainer contracts with service providers with set fees, not randomly changing fees at the whim of the provider.

All of post #49 is guesswork based on what you want to believe, I've only replied based on what has been actually posted. No childish *sighs* or hyperbole like you've posted.

If there is more to the story then only the OP and accountant are likely to be aware of it and we can give different answers if we get more information.

mrcheez

mrcheez wrote: »

Suddenly he is getting charged €300 for the same thing without warning about an increase in fees.

Not true.

TitianGerm

mrcheez wrote: »

The OP has been paying €200 to get X done every year.

Suddenly he is getting charged €300 for the same thing without warning about an increase in fees.

The OP is right to be aggrieved and this is a ridiculously unprofessional approach taken by his accountant. Fees are always agreed upfront and changes thereof need to be consented to by both parties BEFORE work is done.

This is incredibly simple.

He didn't get the same thing done though. He had the same thing done and his RBO filing completed.