Planning permission granted for 2nd Tallest building in Dublin

Beta Ray Bill

Gerry Gannon, has secured planning permission for 1,416 apartments at Clongriffin in north Dublin.

As part of the fast track planning permission granted by An Bord Pleanála, Gerard Gannon Properties Ltd has secured planning permission for 943 build-to-rent apartments and 473 build-to-sell units.

One of the blocks reaches to 17 storeys in height comprising of 210 build-to-rent apartments and all apartments are provided with private balconies/winter gardens/terraces.

This is actually shocking.
Clongriffin is basically Ballymun MkII.
The place already has serious problems. The Garda wont even go in there late at night (unless it's in force).

The 2nd tallest building in Dublin is going to be 10km outside of the city centre and situated on what is already a struggling infrastructure network (Ya can't get on a Dart that's coming from Malahide in rush hour anymore).
Whats more, over half of the entire development will go to a foreign vulture funds to let out to people on the HAP!!???

How is this happening?
Like what individual person or persons is deciding this is ok?

Fast track planning needs to go ASAP.
It's absolutely ridiculous!

I'm all for development, if they wanted to build 250 3/4 bed semi-D's for private sale on the site, I'd have absolutely no problem with this at all.
We're literally making the same mistakes all over again! :mad:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/developer-secures-planning-for-1416-apartments-including-17-storey-tower-despite-20-objections-971400.html

X111111111111

Don't see the problem tbh. People need to live somewhere.

Effects

X111111111111 wrote: »

People need to live somewhere.

The issue is probably the lack of infrastructure and facilities.
I didn't read anything in the article about it being for HAP, but it won't turn out great if does end up with a huge amount of bad tenants.

Marcos

Do Dublin Fire Brigade even have a tender that can reach that high to rescue people if needed?

If they don't, then the developers should be levied to pay for one and for training for fire brigade members to use it. This should apply to all sky scraper developers in the city IMO and should be a condition of planning IMO.

Beta Ray Bill

Effects wrote: »

The issue is probably the lack of infrastructure and facilities.
I didn't read anything in the article about it being for HAP, but it won't turn out great if does end up with a huge amount of bad tenants.

It's not even a "huge" amount that's required.
Even a small(ish) amount of bad tenants (which is what Clongriffin currently has) is enough to drag down the reputation of an area.

I've mates living down there with Celtic tiger era mortgages around their necks.
They literally are counting down the days until they're no longer in negative equity so they can leave.

marieholmfan

We need to CPO single storey cottages in Drumcondra and build these there.
Not build wherever a Maple 10 developer acquires the land.
Gerry Gannon is Maple 10.

Tacitus Kilgore

Marcos wrote: »

Do Dublin Fire Brigade even have a tender that can reach that high to rescue people if needed?

If they don't, then the developers should be levied to pay for one and for training for fire brigade members to use it. This should apply to all sky scraper developers in the city IMO and should be a condition of planning IMO.

Do you think the Melbourne fire(y) brigade has a tender that can reach the top of these two? - The one on the right is almost 1000ft, the one on the left will be taller when complete..

stargazer 68

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I've mates living down there with Celtic tiger era mortgages around their necks.
They literally are counting down the days until they're no longer in negative equity so they can leave.

So do I and some of those apartments have had leaks for years and the builder etc has no idea what's causing it! If they could get out they would be gone.

blanch152

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

This is actually shocking.
Clongriffin is basically Ballymun MkII.
The place already has serious problems. The Garda wont even go in there late at night (unless it's in force).

The 2nd tallest building in Dublin is going to be 10km outside of the city centre and situated on what is already a struggling infrastructure network (Ya can't get on a Dart that's coming from Malahide in rush hour anymore).
Whats more, over half of the entire development will go to a foreign vulture funds to let out to people on the HAP!!???

How is this happening?
Like what individual person or persons is deciding this is ok?

Fast track planning needs to go ASAP.
It's absolutely ridiculous!

I'm all for development, if they wanted to build 250 3/4 bed semi-D's for private sale on the site, I'd have absolutely no problem with this at all.
We're literally making the same mistakes all over again! :mad:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/developer-secures-planning-for-1416-apartments-including-17-storey-tower-despite-20-objections-971400.html

The most shocking thing about the OP is that 17 storeys will be the second-highest building in Dublin. We need a lot lot more of that size and higher.

Beta Ray Bill

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Do you think the Melbourne fire(y) brigade has a tender that can reach the top of these two? - The one on the right is almost 1000ft, the one on the left will be taller when complete..

Course they don't!

However it is likely that they have been trained in battle fires in very tall buildings.
I'm not a fireman. So I don't know "how much" actual training is required for this.

Anyone else know?

blanch152 wrote: »

The most shocking thing about the OP is that 17 storeys will be the second-highest building in Dublin. We need a lot lot more of that size and higher.

I completely and utterly agree with you!
Genuinely, I do think we need to build up.
However.... you start in the centre and work your way out, we're doing the opposite here.

blanch152

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Course they don't!

However it is likely that they have been trained in battle fires in very tall buildings.
I'm not a fireman. So I don't know "how much" actual training is required for this.

Anyone else know?

You claim it will be the second highest building in Dublin. Should we pull down the highest if the fire brigade can't deal with that?

sydthebeat

about time we started building up

Tacitus Kilgore

Everyone: We need more houses

Someone: Ok I'll build a few

Everyone: No, not here!

Someone: ...

sydthebeat

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

However it is likely that they have been trained in battle fires in very tall buildings.
I'm not a fireman. So I don't know "how much" actual training is required for this.

Anyone else know?

.

every non domestic building must achieve a Fire Safety Certificate (FSC) before works can be completed.

Fire Fighting is only one small part of the fire safety of a building, and its all dealt with within this FSC.

Id imagine a building of this magnitude is assessed in accordance with BS 9999

Larbre34

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I'm all for development, if they wanted to build 250 3/4 bed semi-D's for private sale on the site, I'd have absolutely no problem with this

This would be the mistake friend. This was the mistake for 40 years.

Take a look at any European city and how it mixes its residential zoning. The metropolitan area of Madrid accommodates almost 7 million people in an area 60% the size of County Dublin. You don't think they do that in the same low density that we have been abusing for decades?

Clongriffin is no more or less special than any other part of town, it just happens to be younger. We can't have it both ways folks, we either build up and keep our kids in the City or we condemn them to live in Offaly or Cavan while the economy falters due to lack of housing.

And by the way, An Bord Pleanála makes its decisions in line with the development plan of the respective County and with any relevant national policy from Eoghan Murphy's Dept that supersedes it.

McMurphy

Gonna need a lot of bricks if you live on the top floor and want to build yourself a BBQ.

marieholmfan

Larbre34 wrote: »

This would be the mistake friend. This was the mistake for 40 years.

Take a look at any European city and how it mixes its residential zoning. The metropolitan area of Madrid accommodates almost 7 million people in an area 60% the size of County Dublin. You don't think they do that in the same low density that we have been abusing for decades?

Clongriffin is no more or less special than any other part of town, it just happens to be younger. We can't have it both ways folks, we either build up and keep our kids in the City or we condemn them to live in Offaly or Cavan while the economy falters due to lack of housing.

And by the way, An Bord Pleanála makes its decisions in line with the development plan of the respective County and with any relevant national policy from Eoghan Murphy's Dept that supersedes it.

It is not in 'town'. What's needed is CPO of very low density inner urban housing and skyscrapers there.



It is very problematic to have a Maple tenner driving this given his proven track record of engaging in quasi legal closed door dealings.

_Kaiser_

Larbre34 wrote: »

This would be the mistake friend. This was the mistake for 40 years.

Take a look at any European city and how it mixes its residential zoning. The metropolitan area of Madrid accommodates almost 7 million people in an area 60% the size of County Dublin. You don't think they do that in the same low density that we have been abusing for decades?

Clongriffin is no more or less special than any other part of town, it just happens to be younger. We can't have it both ways folks, we either build up and keep our kids in the City or we condemn them to live in Offaly or Cavan while the economy falters due to lack of housing.

And by the way, An Bord Pleanála makes its decisions in line with the development plan of the respective County and with any relevant national policy from Eoghan Murphy's Dept that supersedes it.

Agree completely with the above. We can't continue to add to a Dublin sprawl that now includes significant parts of Kildare, Meath and Louth in effect.

We need to build up, but we need to build properly sized and insulated single, double, and family apartments for long term occupancy - not as a short term thing to endure on the road to a semi D.

There's plenty of room in the city centre - Sherrif Street area for example - that could be demolished and repurposed for high rise apartments so that those who want, and need, to be there for work/education etc can be rather than commuting an hour or more on overcrowded buses and trains and/or from a county or two away.

There's also lots of green space still within the M50 too. All of this should be examined for suitability for residential housing.

Beta Ray Bill

Larbre34 wrote: »

This would be the mistake friend. This was the mistake for 40 years.

Take a look at any European city and how it mixes its residential zoning. The metropolitan area of Madrid accommodates almost 7 million people in an area 60% the size of County Dublin. You don't think they do that in the same low density that we have been abusing for decades?

Clongriffin is no more or less special than any other part of town, it just happens to be younger. We can't have it both ways folks, we either build up and keep our kids in the City or we condemn them to live in Offaly or Cavan while the economy falters due to lack of housing.

And by the way, An Bord Pleanála makes its decisions in line with the development plan of the respective County and with any relevant national policy from Eoghan Murphy's Dept that supersedes it.

Again.... Start in the centre, and work your way out.
Clongriffin is at the edge.

The developer obviously wants to make as much money as they can, sooo.....
Buy the cheapest land (Doesn't matter where so long as you can market it as Dublin), then pack in as much as they possibly can.
An Bord Pleanála should be pushing for these kind of developments in the City Centre, not in the Suburbs

Also Eoghan Murphy doesn't give a sh*t and/or hasn't a clue, son of a solicitor, elected a TD at 29, front bench minister at 35 years, never done a days work in his life and has no experience what so ever.
You don't see these kinds of Developments in his constituency..... just sayin.

blanch152

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Again.... Start in the centre, and work your way out.
Clongriffin is at the edge.

The developer obviously wants to make as much money as they can, sooo.....
Buy the cheapest land (Doesn't matter where so long as you can market it as Dublin), then pack in as much as they possibly can.
An Bord Pleanála should be pushing for these kind of developments in the City Centre, not in the Suburbs

Also Eoghan Murphy doesn't give a sh*t and/or hasn't a clue, son of a solicitor, elected a TD at 29, front bench minister at 35 years, never done a days work in his life and has no experience what so ever.
You don't see these kinds of Developments in his constituency..... just sayin.

Not necessary to start in the centre, in fact there is an argument for preserving the historic centre that doesn't apply to somewhere like Clongriffin.

Along public transport lines is the main place to build, so places like Cherrywood, Adamstown and Clongriffin are the obvious places to build high-density.

is_that_so

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Again.... Start in the centre, and work your way out.
Clongriffin is at the edge.

The developer obviously wants to make as much money as they can, sooo.....
Buy the cheapest land (Doesn't matter where so long as you can market it as Dublin), then pack in as much as they possibly can.
An Bord Pleanála should be pushing for these kind of developments in the City Centre, not in the Suburbs

Also Eoghan Murphy doesn't give a sh*t and/or hasn't a clue, son of a solicitor, elected a TD at 29, front bench minister at 35 years, never done a days work in his life and has no experience what so ever.
You don't see these kinds of Developments in his constituency..... just sayin.

It has a train line and not awful bus links, both of which can be improved substantially. That's where you want people to live, not Dunshaughlin, Arklow or Mullingar.

lawred2

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

This is actually shocking.
Clongriffin is basically Ballymun MkII.
The place already has serious problems. The Garda wont even go in there late at night (unless it's in force).

The 2nd tallest building in Dublin is going to be 10km outside of the city centre and situated on what is already a struggling infrastructure network (Ya can't get on a Dart that's coming from Malahide in rush hour anymore).
Whats more, over half of the entire development will go to a foreign vulture funds to let out to people on the HAP!!???

How is this happening?
Like what individual person or persons is deciding this is ok?

Fast track planning needs to go ASAP.
It's absolutely ridiculous!

I'm all for development, if they wanted to build 250 3/4 bed semi-D's for private sale on the site, I'd have absolutely no problem with this at all.
We're literally making the same mistakes all over again! :mad:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/developer-secures-planning-for-1416-apartments-including-17-storey-tower-despite-20-objections-971400.html

no it f**king well is not

sydthebeat

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Again.... Start in the centre, and work your way out.
Clongriffin is at the edge.

you cant work center - outwards when it comes to housing... especially in a city as old and the size of dublin.

There are specific CBDs in Dublin (financial, shopping) added with many Heritage areas ... essentially within the 'circular road' areas.

there has been decades of 2 storey tract housing of urban sprawl which has destroyed the areas around the city... these areas have already been developed unfortunately, and would have been perfect for the higher rise housing developments, but simply arent available anymore.

so at some stage housing needs to be built up a rather than out

jam_mac_jam

This is great news. Large building beside a train station and yet people are still moaning and bitching.

OOOH but ballymun. Every single high building is exactly the same as Ballymun.

We have to build up, we have too many people. Why would people not object if its a huge estate but when its a high building they do. I honestly don't understand the logic.

blanch152

sydthebeat wrote: »

you cant work center - outwards when it comes to housing... especially in a city as old and the size of dublin.

There are specific CBDs in Dublin (financial, shopping) added with many Heritage areas ... essentially within the 'circular road' areas.

there has been decades of 2 storey tract housing of urban sprawl which has destroyed the areas around the city... these areas have already been developed unfortunately, and would have been perfect for the higher rise housing developments, but simply arent available anymore.

so at some stage housing needs to be built up a rather than out

And where there are suitable brownfield sites like in Drimnagh and Bluebell, we get the same NIMBY objections as we are hearing from Clongriffin.

lawred2

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

This is great news. Large building beside a train station and yet people are still moaning and bitching.

OOOH but ballymun. Every single high building is exactly the same as Ballymun.

We have to build up, we have too many people. Why would people not object if its a huge estate but when its a high building they do. I honestly don't understand the logic.

such a tedious refrain

a moderately tall building anywhere is greeted immediately with the usual chorus of "tis Ballymun der buildin agin"

is_that_so

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

This is great news. Large building beside a train station and yet people are still moaning and bitching.

OOOH but ballymun. Every single high building is exactly the same as Ballymun.

We have to build up, we have too many people. Why would people not object if its a huge estate but when its a high building they do. I honestly don't understand the logic.

Ballymun was an urban wasteland, with vast tracts of open spaces and nothing else. People were effectively dumped there into soulless social housing.

Effects

marieholmfan wrote: »

We need to CPO single storey cottages in Drumcondra and build these there.

Have you forgotten our history? You can't just evict people and destroy their homes like that.
Is there not plenty of commercial space that could be used, and they relocate further out of the city.

Jinglejangle69

The homeless situation is a disgrace we need to build!!

Just not beside me....

Beta Ray Bill

blanch152 wrote: »

Not necessary to start in the centre, in fact there is an argument for preserving the historic centre that doesn't apply to somewhere like Clongriffin.

Along public transport lines is the main place to build, so places like Cherrywood, Adamstown and Clongriffin are the obvious places to build high-density.

But the transport is appalling!

I'll be honest with you.
I get on the DART every morning at Kilbarrack Dart Station.

I don't bother getting on the Dart After 7:30am or before 9:00am, especially is the Dart is coming from Malahide direction.
The reason is because it's rammed full by the time it gets to Raheny.
If I'm on one of those trains, I've then to endure an extremely uncomfortable commute to Dublin City Centre.
Smelly people, weirdos, sick/ill people spreading their germs and squashed in together on a metal tube. In many cases said tube has nothing to hold on to, so if train brakes suddenly, you've got people falling on top of you.

The more apartments they build further up the line the more squashed in the morning I'm (and indeed everyone) is going to be, and the 7.30am-9.00am window will be expanded even further.
There are no planned purchases of additional DART cars, and even if their were, it'd be 3/4 years again they get here.

I'm being encouraged to use Public transport, which is grand, It's my first choice in terms of transport. But I have to be able to use it, otherwise I'm back on the motorcycle/car.
This is simple maths like.

Irish Rail have already acknowledged the system is at capacity in the mornings and have asked me to user Peaktime.ie (which I'm doing) to help alleviate that.
Now some developer is building hundreds more high density housing up the line which is going to make the problem worse.

Colonel Claptrap

marieholmfan wrote: »

It is not in 'town'. What's needed is CPO of very low density inner urban housing and skyscrapers there.

The land is sitting there, already zoned and ready for development. No CPO required.

It's 20 minutes from the city centre by DART.

There is a pre-built but unused fourth platform ready to open once the northern line becomes quad tracked.

There is also the option to build a spur to the airport, transforming Clongriffin station into a vital transport hub on the north side.

Building anything other than high density here would be silly.