Planning permission granted for 2nd Tallest building in Dublin

Chris_Heilong

Dublin is full, they should build on the outskirts for all the new people.........:pac:

banie01

I still can't get my head around the fact that the government is happy to spend €600million a year and rising on HAP, on giving money away to whomever is placing their properties on the rental market rather than taking the step of using those funds to borrow.

€600 million will fund a massive interest coupon on a 20/25 bond, go to the market at 3 or 3.5% and let the pension funds regain access to a decent ROI.
Those funds can then be used to build LA housing, and have the added benefit of both creating a state owned asset, aswell as even at reduced Social Welfare rate rents creating a revenue stream directly back to the state to fund their maintenance.

Why throw the money away, when it can be be fostered into actual infrastructural and housing growth that will be State owned.

if as seems to be an over-riding belief here in Ireland, it is the State's responsibility to house those unable to house themselves surely we should be aiming to cut the profiteering out and develop our assets?

Tacitus Kilgore

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

But the transport is appalling!

I'll be honest with you.
I get on the DART every morning at Kilbarrack Dart Station.

I don't bother getting on the Dart After 7:30am or before 9:00am, especially is the Dart is coming from Malahide direction.
The reason is because it's rammed full by the time it gets to Raheny.
If I'm on one of those trains, I've then to endure an extremely uncomfortable commute to Dublin City Centre.
Smelly people, weirdos, sick/ill people spreading their germs and squashed in together on a metal tube. In many cases said tube has nothing to hold on to, so if train brakes suddenly, you've got people falling on top of you.

The more apartments they build further up the line the more squashed in the morning I'm (and indeed everyone) is going to be, and the 7.30am-9.00am window will be expanded even further.
There are no planned purchases of additional DART cars, and even if their were, it'd be 3/4 years again they get here.

I'm being encouraged to use Public transport, which is grand, It's my first choice in terms of transport. But I have to be able to use it, otherwise I'm back on the motorcycle/car.
This is simple maths like.

Irish Rail have already acknowledged the system is at capacity in the mornings and have asked me to user Peaktime.ie (which I'm doing) to help alleviate that.
Now some developer is building hundreds more high density housing up the line which is going to make the problem worse.

These are good points about why our public transport (among other) infrastructures need investment and upgrading, they are not acceptable reasons to prevent the building of housing.

Housing needs to be built, nowhere is perfect for it, it has to go somewhere.

Beta Ray Bill

banie01 wrote: »

I still can't get my head around the fact that the government is happy to spend €600million a year and rising on HAP, on giving money away to whomever is placing their properties on the rental market rather than taking the step of using those funds to borrow.

€600 million will fund a massive interest coupon on a 20/25 bond, go to the market at 3 or 3.5% and let the pension funds regain access to a decent ROI.
Those funds can then be used to build LA housing, and have the added benefit of both creating a state owned asset, aswell as even at reduced Social Welfare rate rents creating a revenue stream directly back to the state to fund their maintenance.

Why throw the money away, when it can be be fostered into actual infrastructural and housing growth that will be State owned.

if as seems to be an over-riding belief here in Ireland, it is the State's responsibility to house those unable to house themselves surely we should be aiming to cut the profiteering out and develop our assets?

There is no housing crisis....
There's a where's my free/€100 per month housing crisis

Tacitus Kilgore

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

There is no housing crisis....
There's a where's my free/€100 per month housing crisis

Views on a 'housing crisis' may differ, but,


There is a shortage of housing stock, this cannot be disputed.

Beta Ray Bill

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

These are good points about why our public transport (among other) infrastructures need investment and upgrading, they are not acceptable reasons to prevent the building of housing.

Housing needs to be built, nowhere is perfect for it, it has to go somewhere.

I fully accept the bit in bold.
However there are places that closer to perfect than others.
And the edge of a city on an already at capacity line (IMO) isn't the place for high density dwellings.

Also just read this:
https://dublingazette.com/news/news-fingal/abp-howth-23420/

I'm f**ked
Back to the motorcycle/car it's gonna be

Beta Ray Bill

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Views on a 'housing crisis' may differ, but,


There is a shortage of housing stock, this cannot be disputed.

There is plenty for sale, but yes for rent, there is S.F.A!

I think is mostly due to a number of factors:
Land Lord is a dirty word now
Rent Pressure zones
Residential tenancies board
HAP soaking up a sizable portion of what is available to rent.

The above I think means most landlords are getting out of the market if they can.

Amirani

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Whats more, over half of the entire development will go to a foreign vulture funds to let out to people on the HAP!!???

You're mixing up your birds in the midst of your outrage. Need to pay more attention when you're reading the scaremongering opinion pieces in the Independent.

"Vultures" as the Independent have coined them, are entities that take over ownership of mortgages from mainstream banks, nothing to do with HAP or rentals whatsoever.

I think it's "cuckoos" that you're looking for, but this just sums up the nonsense of it all.

Tacitus Kilgore

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I fully accept the bit in bold.
However there are places that closer to perfect than others.
And the edge of a city on an already at capacity line (IMO) isn't the place for high density dwellings.

Also just read this:
https://dublingazette.com/news/news-fingal/abp-howth-23420/

I'm f**ked
Back to the motorcycle/car it's gonna be

Additional traffic & strain on the dart will suck but it's hard to argue against that proposal from any other view..

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

There is plenty for sale, but yes for rent, there is S.F.A!

I think is mostly due to a number of factors:
Land Lord is a dirty word now
Rent Pressure zones
Residential tenancies board
HAP soaking up a sizable portion of what is available to rent.

The above I think means most landlords are getting out of the market if they can.

There's a general shortage for both rent/sale, there are more properties visible for sale than rent but that is only exaggerated because of the absence of rentals available.

But what the rest of this has to do with building a tower I'm not sure Ray..

Effects

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

There are no planned purchases of additional DART cars, and even if their were, it'd be 3/4 years again they get here.

That's not true.

James Brown

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

There is no housing crisis....
There's a where's my free/€100 per month housing crisis

The thousands of working tax payers, some back home with the folks, thank your attitude.

Beta Ray Bill

Amirani wrote: »

You're mixing up your birds in the midst of your outrage. Need to pay more attention when you're reading the scaremongering opinion pieces in the Independent.

"Vultures" as the Independent have coined them, are entities that take over ownership of mortgages from mainstream banks, nothing to do with HAP or rentals whatsoever.

I think it's "cuckoos" that you're looking for, but this just sums up the nonsense of it all.

Indeed you are correct!
But aren't they 2 words for the same kind of company?
IE: Buy a thing that will make money to support a thing we sell? (Pension for example)

Beta Ray Bill

Effects wrote: »

That's not true.

Let me rephrase that
Rail cars have been ordered but none of them are Darts

Any additional DARTS that are planned to be bought are to serve the DART underground line and not to increase capacity on Line between Clongriffin and Killester.

Beta Ray Bill

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The thousands of working tax payers, some back home with the folks, thank your attitude.

I'M BACK HOME! :mad:

have been for over 2 years!

jam_mac_jam

All the trains are full, all the buses are full, the roads are clogged, so do we build houses nowhere?

James Brown

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I'M BACK HOME! :mad:

have been for over 2 years!

So why do you think there's no housing crisis?

I'm sure, (not being sarcastic) they'll plan ahead this time. I'd be very surprised and disappointed if the amenities and access of the Ballymun set up is repeated.

IAmTheReign

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I'M BACK HOME! :mad:

have been for over 2 years!

I was just reading about new apartments going up in Clongriffin, second tallest building in Dublin planned apparently. Maybe you could look at moving there?

Tacitus Kilgore

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

All the trains are full, all the buses are full, the roads are clogged, so do we build houses nowhere?

Build nothing -


Just object to absolutely everything and then blame the guvermint.

Dytalus

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

All the trains are full, all the buses are full, the roads are clogged, so do we build houses nowhere?

"We would like to expand the Luas/Metro/DART/Buses in this area."

"No! It will ruin our small village aesthetic. Communities not corridors!"

"We would like to build apartments too."

"No! The transport links are crowded enough as it is!"

People won't live in an area with no amenities or things to do, and amenities/things to do don't get built where there are no people. We have to break the cycle somehow, and housing is the better way to break it. The Metro South would have accomodated the few hundred new apartments in Cherrywood going up, and once the Luas is packed after 3 stops people will capitulate and let the Luas be expanded to the Metro it desperately needs to be.

A bunch of new builds in Clongriffin might lead to increased transport links, but at the very least we have some new apartments going up. Bite the bullet and let the bloody things get built.

James Brown

Dytalus wrote: »

"We would like to expand the Luas/Metro/DART/Buses in this area."

"No! It will ruin our small village aesthetic. Communities not corridors!"

"We would like to build apartments too."

"No! The transport links are crowded enough as it is!"

People won't live in an area with no amenities or things to do, and amenities/things to do don't get built where there are no people. We have to break the cycle somehow, and housing is the better way to break it. The Metro South would have accomodated the few hundred new apartments in Cherrywood going up, and once the Luas is packed after 3 stops people will capitulate and let the Luas be expanded to the Metro it desperately needs to be.

A bunch of new builds in Clongriffin might lead to increased transport links, but at the very least we have some new apartments going up. Bite the bullet and let the bloody things get built.

They regularly build business units into the bases of new apartment blocks. Usually shops. We need up transport too. I mean they are building and there will be people. No reason it can't be all organised.

Beta Ray Bill

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So why do you think there's no housing crisis?

I'm sure, (not being sarcastic) they'll plan ahead this time. I'd be very surprised and disappointed if the amenities and access of the Ballymun set up is repeated.

I lived in an apartment in town before, it was great. walking to work was very handy.
There is no point in living in an apartment out in the Suburbs.

In the last year I've bid on 3 houses.
I was out bid on 2 by the local council... Now why would the council be bidding on 2nd hand houses!???

blanch152

banie01 wrote: »

I still can't get my head around the fact that the government is happy to spend €600million a year and rising on HAP, on giving money away to whomever is placing their properties on the rental market rather than taking the step of using those funds to borrow.

€600 million will fund a massive interest coupon on a 20/25 bond, go to the market at 3 or 3.5% and let the pension funds regain access to a decent ROI.
Those funds can then be used to build LA housing, and have the added benefit of both creating a state owned asset, aswell as even at reduced Social Welfare rate rents creating a revenue stream directly back to the state to fund their maintenance.

Why throw the money away, when it can be be fostered into actual infrastructural and housing growth that will be State owned.

if as seems to be an over-riding belief here in Ireland, it is the State's responsibility to house those unable to house themselves surely we should be aiming to cut the profiteering out and develop our assets?

EU Maastricht borrowing rules prevent this.

Dytalus

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They regularly build business units into the bases of new apartment blocks. Usually shops. We need up transport too. I mean they are building and there will be people. No reason it can't be all organised.

Oh absolutely. I was thinking more along the lines of schools, community centres, parks. You need a fair bit more than 'shops' to keep a community alive. Greystones just recently had a forum...thing....to address exactly that problem. A growing number of families are moving there, which means a growing number of teens and children.

Gotta give them something to do, Greystones isn't exactly filled with teen-friendly activities.

No reason these developments (along with expanding transport links) can't happen simultaneously to house builds, but people tend to complain about change regardless of how well organised it is. People should have a right to object, but our local authorities and national governments tend to be too afraid to say "We hear you, but this has to happen anyway".

The Dublin Commuter Coalition made a good point RE: Bus Connects, that people are far more likely to complain during consultation periods than they are to express support. So the DCC constantly remind people to send even small emails saying "I like this plan because: buses" because otherwise Government authorities won't see support for these plans and will only see complaints - it might skew their impression.

blanch152

Amirani wrote: »

You're mixing up your birds in the midst of your outrage. Need to pay more attention when you're reading the scaremongering opinion pieces in the Independent.

"Vultures" as the Independent have coined them, are entities that take over ownership of mortgages from mainstream banks, nothing to do with HAP or rentals whatsoever.

I think it's "cuckoos" that you're looking for, but this just sums up the nonsense of it all.

You label what you dislike in order to dehumanise it and allow hate speech.

So-called cuckoo funds are very often private sector pension funds that invest in property and rent out to provide an income stream for their pensioners.

Beta Ray Bill

Dytalus wrote: »

The Dublin Commuter Coalition made a good point RE: Bus Connects, that people are far more likely to complain during consultation periods than they are to express support. So the DCC constantly remind people to send even small emails saying "I like this plan because: buses" because otherwise Government authorities won't see support for these plans and will only see complaints - it might skew their impression.

I don't get this.
I'm all for infra! We should be building as much as we can in our populated areas.

My parents backgarden backs on to the train line.
If Irish Rail came knocking saying we want to CPO 5ft of back gardens on each side of the train line to add another track in the middle to allow non stop trains to effectively over take the Darts. I'd be all for it!!!! I'd be asking them when can they start!

People don't realise the benefit they're getting by having the infra to where they live being significantly improved.

Tacitus Kilgore

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

In the last year I've bid on 3 houses.
I was out bid on 2 by the local council... Now why would the council be bidding on 2nd hand houses!???

Because there's not enough stock of new houses for them to house people.. part of this new tower would be given to council for council tenants, which would reduce pressure on the councils, and slow them down on bidding on private sales of 2nd hand houses.

James Brown

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I lived in an apartment in town before, it was great. walking to work was very handy.
There is no point in living in an apartment out in the Suburbs.

In the last year I've bid on 3 houses.
I was out bid on 2 by the local council... Now why would the council be bidding on 2nd hand houses!???

Because they aren't building enough social and due to the housing crisis there is a shortage of stock.
I think what you mean is you've a problem with people who are on lower incomes being eligible for social housing and rent supplement, which is your right, but it doesn't mean there's no crisis. Where do you think all these people come from, fell out of the sky? And what about people like yourself, too picky?
You are giving a good example of how lack of social housing builds are putting the LA/state in direct competition with individual buyers, making the crisis worse.

Thelonious Monk

Why not cycle or take the motorbike if busy darts and people freak you out so much? A lot quicker.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

You label what you dislike in order to dehumanise it and allow hate speech.

So-called cuckoo funds are very often private sector pension funds that invest in property and rent out to provide an income stream for their pensioners.

Like vultures. It doesn't mater if the money goes to the Legion of Mary.
The term vulture is used because they feed off the crisis making things worse for the public, aided and abetted by the state. It's industrial level property speculation.

Beta Ray Bill

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Because there's not enough stock of new houses for them to house people.. part of this new tower would be given to council for council tenants, which would reduce pressure on the councils, and slow them down on bidding on private sales of 2nd hand houses.

I understand why they're buying the stock, what I don't understand is why they're being let buy stock when they sold off all their old stock for a steal to their tenants.

I posted this in the Eoghan Murphy confidence vote thread:

There are approx 253,000 council houses/flat in Ireland, with the vast majority in Dublin. They represent approx 15% of all dwellings in Ireland.
Last year local authorities got approx €350M in rent for these, meaning on average people in these units paid approx €115.28 per month
This data is skewed a little however as the total arrears last year countrywide for council housing was €73.6M
To add to this, there are approx 86,000 waiting for social housing. (The majority of which have been offered a council house, but it's in Letrim/Sligo/Roscommon/Not in Dublin)

In addition to this, there are another 60,000 units being rented which is supplemented via HAP. In these circumstances tenants pay approx €20/50 per week themselves and the rest is paid by the council. Again the vast majority of these are in Dublin.

So to summarise, 18.5% (nearly 1 in 5) of all house holds in the country are paying on average less than €38 a week for rent, with the bulk on tenants living in Dublin.

We have a situation where nearly a fifth of the people are paying around €165 a month for rent and the other four fifths are paying nearly €2,000.
And most of that one fifth don't work, yet occupy a dwelling in place that people who do work need.

So in my opinion the demand is superficial, it's literally being created by the governments and councils giving out way to much.