Planning permission granted for 2nd Tallest building in Dublin

maninasia

blanch152 wrote: »

The most shocking thing about the OP is that 17 storeys will be the second-highest building in Dublin. We need a lot lot more of that size and higher.

I live on the 20th floor I'm King of the Hill, yeah

The Satanist

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The view from O'Connell Bridge in 2 years time apparently.




Dublin is changing and going up!

Er mah gawd it's blocking out the entire sun, we've got to stop this madness before we all die!

woohoo!!!

Had a look at it. There's a 17 storey and a 15 storey building. And the rest pretty much matches what's there already, 4 to 6 storey. Something like 1400 apartments granted with some commercial space. The only issue I have is the very high percentage of rental.

MrAbyss

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The view from O'Connell Bridge in 2 years time apparently.




Dublin is changing and going up!

Genocide.

Melanchthon

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Had a look at it. There's a 17 storey and a 15 storey building. And the rest pretty much matches what's there already, 4 to 6 storey. Something like 1400 apartments granted with some commercial space. The only issue I have is the very high percentage of rental.

Would private individuals buy to live themselves in this development? I have heard from a few peoole that area has already got social problems and I imagine the council is going to be buying up a lot of the units.

woohoo!!!

Melanchthon wrote: »

Would private individuals buy to live themselves in this development? I have heard from a few peoole that area has already got social problems and I imagine the council is going to be buying up a lot of the units.

No idea really.

wakka12

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The view from O'Connell Bridge in 2 years time apparently.




Dublin is changing and going up!

Would look great with another taller tower in between the two of the new ones, tie them together and make a little cluster

Larbre34

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Why is it every country in the world can do high rise but Ireland can’t?

Not really true. I work in as a planner/designer and I've seen places it fails to work because there isn't a balance of zoning or amenities. Plenty of French cities are high rise social black holes. Auckland in New Zealand is a beautiful city that Ireland could learn a lot from, but even with a sensible higher building strategy it has become a victim of it's own success because of a lack of balance to regional development on the North Island.

Planning is about much more than 'everyone else is doing it, so why can't we?'. Its about asking the questions around what do we want the city to do and to be for its citizens and as the capital of the country, then putting a 100 year framework in place to make it sustainable.

maninasia

Larbre34 wrote: »

Not really true. I work in as a planner/designer and I've seen places it fails to work because there isn't a balance of zoning or amenities. Plenty of French cities are high rise social black holes. Auckland in New Zealand is a beautiful city that Ireland could learn a lot from, but even with a sensible higher building strategy it has become a victim of it's own success because of a lack of balance to regional development on the North Island.

Planning is about much more than 'everyone else is doing it, so why can't we?'. Its about asking the questions around what do we want the city to do and to be for its citizens and as the capital of the country, then putting a 100 year framework in place to make it sustainable.

I think most people on here have more common. sense than the wretched planning officers in Ireland.
A hundred year framework is too far out. We should focus on ten to twenty year plans.

Weepsie

maninasia wrote: »

I think most people on here have more common. sense than the wretched planning officers in Ireland.
A hundred year framework is too far out. We should focus on ten to twenty year plans.

That's surely been partly how we've arrived where we are. Short termism and only trying to find what works now

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/johnny-ronans-docklands-housing-scheme-to-be-tallest-in-dublin-n20tdhz6f

wow

The Satanist

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/johnny-ronans-docklands-housing-scheme-to-be-tallest-in-dublin-n20tdhz6f

wow

Inspired by...

woohoo!!!

The Satanist wrote: »

Inspired by...

It actually looks like one of those vertical forest concepts, there's a famous one in Milan.

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/milan-vertical-forest-high-rise

Harry Palmr

"Skyscrapers" for the sake of of making a statement should be avoided, It's a bit like Man Utd signing Paul Pogba for 100m.

A handful of these structures won't actually fix much, they are best used for offices not homes. Retain a sense of common sense (and scale) and keep it 8 stories and lots of them.

Eric Cartman

Harry Palmr wrote: »

"Skyscrapers" for the sake of of making a statement should be avoided, It's a bit like Man Utd signing Paul Pogba for 100m.

A handful of these structures won't actually fix much, they are best used for offices not homes. Retain a sense of common sense (and scale) and keep it 8 stories and lots of them.

8 is too few, nobody is asking for 50-60 floor jobs like the states . 20 storey office blocks are perfectly acceptable and necessary for the city , as are 10-15 storey apartment blocks.

Building up is the only solution, 4 storey blocks of flats and 3 bed semi's and terraced houses have no place inside the city anymore.

Beta Ray Bill

Eric Cartman wrote: »

8 is too few, nobody is asking for 50-60 floor jobs like the states . 20 storey office blocks are perfectly acceptable and necessary for the city , as are 10-15 storey apartment blocks.

Building up is the only solution, 4 storey blocks of flats and 3 bed semi's and terraced houses have no place inside the city anymore.

While I agree with you that building up is 100% required.

There are costs associated with building up.

Watch this:

From about 2:30 he discusses build cost vs return.
Basically the higher up you go the more expensive it gets per square metre.

Between 6 and 12 floors is optimal for Dublin
Also there are regulations that state that car parking must be provided in residential apartment blocks. (Which is kind of ridiculous yet understandable at the same time)

So when you put 2 + 2 together (Constructions Costs + Carparking rules), it's now a bit easier to understand why these 17 story buildings (And other large apartment developments) are getting built out in the Suburbs instead of in the city centre (where they should be getting built)

Yurt2

Larbre34 wrote: »

Not really true. I work in as a planner/designer and I've seen places it fails to work because there isn't a balance of zoning or amenities. Plenty of French cities are high rise social black holes. Auckland in New Zealand is a beautiful city that Ireland could learn a lot from, but even with a sensible higher building strategy it has become a victim of it's own success because of a lack of balance to regional development on the North Island.

Planning is about much more than 'everyone else is doing it, so why can't we?'. Its about asking the questions around what do we want the city to do and to be for its citizens and as the capital of the country, then putting a 100 year framework in place to make it sustainable.

Auckland's housing un-affordability problem is an order of magnitude worse than Dublin's. It's CDB is impressive looking, but that's mostly offices / hotels / luxury apartments. The vast majority of its' housing stock is low-rise, and low-density.

Apparently there has been a modest improvement in the last year due to looser restrictions on density and banning foreign buyers (bUt mY pROpertY rIGHts!).

Much like Dublin, it's also an extremely car dependent city.

dublinman1990

The 15 is now a 24 hour route in Clongriffin. It's becoming very successful so far with lots of passengers taking up the overnight service. Increasing the demand for property in the area should in theory be a big indicator for increased demand on PT services over the next few years. And people are saying that this news of the new apartments getting built should not happen at all because of a few scumbags ruining the area. Locations do & can progress overtime while at the same time services being provided does increase too that is appropriate to the area. Not everyone who could move into these apartments are not people who frequently break the law. Most of these new tenants when they come in will still follow the trend of working in jobs & contributing to society. With the right amounts going into these areas. The attractiveness of the areas by getting new things into the community should increase as well. And everyone else wins in the end because of that.

As a starting point; Clongriffin did not have a great start to begin with because some areas that were ripe or ready for development were not getting new accommodation built because of a lack of money from developers arising from the recession to actually start building the developments. But this new opportunity to build new homes to the area should give it a new lease of life. And huge amounts of people, who are currently discussing the housing crisis with other people around them who understand their plight of not being able to find a home, should not be too disappointed about hearing this news. It should give them more hope that they should finally get themselves a home for themselves & for their families in future.

People who begrudge others of that type of luxury of having a home really should look at themselves in the mirror. There are people in this country who are going through an incessant hell for attempting to try & find a home for themselves. We have people here on Boards who are living with their parents who are currently stuck in not finding themselves a home.

Do those people who are described as NIMBY's in this country really want to prolong more of that misery as we go into 2020 & beyond that?

Idbatterim

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

While I agree with you that building up is 100% required.

There are costs associated with building up.

Watch this:

From about 2:30 he discusses build cost vs return.
Basically the higher up you go the more expensive it gets per square metre.

Between 6 and 12 floors is optimal for Dublin
Also there are regulations that state that car parking must be provided in residential apartment blocks. (Which is kind of ridiculous yet understandable at the same time)

So when you put 2 + 2 together (Constructions Costs + Carparking rules), it's now a bit easier to understand why these 17 story buildings (And other large apartment developments) are getting built out in the Suburbs instead of in the city centre (where they should be getting built)

this nonsense again, rental and hotel rates are obscene in Dublin. why am in in Melbourne at the moment, with huge amounts of high rise, with hotel rates a fraction of Dublin and rentals the same? please explain that... yeah the cost goes up, so do the returns though, do you think you can charge the same for a ground floor apartment or hotel as one with views from up high? spare me!

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Why is it every country in the world can do high rise but Ireland can’t?

fun fact! Did you know that all of ballymuns social problems vanished, when they demolished the towers?

this bull**** about the cost increasing with height! They must be some real morons funding and developing mid to high rise blocks in every other country then! probably doing it out of the goodness of their heart. Are the economics different in Ireland to going up a few floors? spare me answering that by the way! Dublin city council and this country, is so backwards still, it beggars belief!

We have a thriving European capital with mad rents, land prices etc, and its docklands is probably fit to rival some hundred thousand pupation backwater somewhere in the uk!

How expensive is it to build new roads, sewage, parks, infrastructure etc, etc , etc, to new developments? yeah suddenly adding some pittance per floor so people can live, where they want to live, instead of commute on already ridiculous overcrowded roads and third world infrastructure, doesn't seem such a high price to pay, does it?

these places already have a community , shops, community facilities etc. The fact that tens of thousands of extra people were deprived of living in the docklands, so a few hundred local residents don't have to look at big bad scary buildings, is truly pathetic. Has cost the country billions in investment and taxes...

Varik

The parking provision changed last year, it was vastly reduced and eliminated for central location.

Beta Ray Bill

Idbatterim wrote: »

this nonsense again, rental and hotel rates are obscene in Dublin. why am in in Melbourne at the moment, with huge amounts of high rise, with hotel rates a fraction of Dublin and rentals the same? please explain that... yeah the cost goes up, so do the returns though, do you think you can charge the same for a ground floor apartment or hotel as one with views from up high? spare me!

Comparing Melbourne and Dublin is like comparing apples and oranges.

Melbourne has a much higher population and area and significantly lower Population density than Dublin.

It simple Maths... the higher up you go, the more it costs (there are anomalies where you can build very high buildings for the exceptionally wealthy)
IE you might build five or six 30 level residential buildings and make a profit.
But if you were to build fifty 30 level residential buildings, you'd lose you're ballix

Idbatterim wrote: »

fun fact! Did you know that all of ballymuns social problems vanished, when they demolished the towers?

this bull**** about the cost increasing with height! They must be some real morons funding and developing mid to high rise blocks in every other country then! probably doing it out of the goodness of their heart. Are the economics different in Ireland to going up a few floors? spare me answering that by the way! Dublin city council and this country, is so backwards still, it beggars belief!

We have a thriving European capital with mad rents, land prices etc, and its docklands is probably fit to rival some hundred thousand pupation backwater somewhere in the uk!

How expensive is it to build new roads, sewage, parks, infrastructure etc, etc , etc, to new developments? yeah suddenly adding some pittance per floor so people can live, where they want to live, instead of commute on already ridiculous overcrowded roads and third world infrastructure, doesn't seem such a high price to pay, does it?

these places already have a community , shops, community facilities etc. The fact that tens of thousands of extra people were deprived of living in the docklands, so a few hundred local residents don't have to look at big bad scary buildings, is truly pathetic. Has cost the country billions in investment and taxes...

The cost of building "up" in Ireland is excessive in comparison to other capital cities.
Most people agree that we need to start building up (myself included) in the city centre, and work our way out.

Costs are killing us though for some reason.
Australia 108 in Melbourne has a height of 317 metres and cost ~AUD$900/€562 million, it'll be finished this year.
Compare that to a Hospital that we are building on a similar type site (in a city centre) and it's costing us nearly 4 times that of Australia 108 (for a building the fraction of the size).... Clearly, there is a problem there somewhere.

Obviously the cost overruns won't be as bad in a private project such as Johnny Ronans building on Tara Street, but the underlying issue (whatever it may be) still exists. It'll be interesting to see what that building will cost in the end.

Idbatterim

In a high rise hotel in Sydney now , if this was Dublin , the room rate would be 4 or five times the amount. There is no way that the labour or material cost wouldn’t be similar to Dublin...

Melbourne is a mass of sprawl , except for the cbd. Which literally just rises up vertically beside the low sprawl. I had heard Australia was expensive, it’s bloody reasonable compared to Dublin for drinks or eating out !

Suckit

Ridiculous that this got the green light for so many rentals. Didn't he owe €2Billion or more as one of the golden circle, transferred millions to his wife and kids and still gets these types of pp. Will be upping the rent no doubt to squeeze as much as possible every chance.
Building permission sought in swords as well and other places, despite declaring millions in losses of profits less than 3 years ago.
Are we to wait and see if things go belly up for him again with his overstretched portfolio, and leave half finished projects blotting the landscapes. Despite also having a tight grasp on what Nama sells from his previous builds when he should have no say at all.

rossie1977

Dublin already is filled with 7-8 storey buildings so not sure why building more or limiting height to that would help deal with problems.

Capital Dock is 22 storeys (260 feet) and Georges Quay is 193 feet. Neither ruin the landscape of Dublin city, in fact Georges Quay is one of the nicest modern buildings in the city.

Dublin badly needs high rise accommodation both residential and hotel in or near city centre. Limerick has a 17 story (190 foot) hotel in the city centre.