J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

sabat

You know I'm starting to think the whole toilets/changing room thing was deliberately put at the centre of the transsexual debate to drag down the level of discourse. When we should be discussing how a deluded fringe group insists that reality itself can be altered and are trying to impose that delusion on the rest of the world, we are instead bickering over where people sh1t.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

sabat wrote: »

You know I'm starting to think the whole toilets/changing room thing was deliberately put at the centre of the transsexual debate to drag down the level of discourse. When we should be discussing how a deluded fringe group insists that reality itself can be altered and are trying to impose that delusion on the rest of the world, we are instead bickering over where people sh1t.

Well, naturally the points that people discuss will be where one set of rights infringe on another. Because, personally, I don’t care how people view themselves and present themselves. That in and of itself isn’t a issue for me.

suicide_circus

sabat wrote: »

You know I'm starting to think the whole toilets/changing room thing was deliberately put at the centre of the transsexual debate to drag down the level of discourse. When we should be discussing how a deluded fringe group insists that reality itself can be altered and are trying to impose that delusion on the rest of the world, we are instead bickering over where people sh1t.

Describing symptoms of Gender Dysphoria as delusions has now been categorised as hate speech, so the narrative is controlled in that sense. Once that's off the table, you're left with the nitty gritty practicalities which can then be dismissed as petty.

PreparationH

suicide_circus wrote: »

Describing symptoms of Gender Dysphoria as delusions has now been categorised as hate speech.

Another GLARING reason why this whole T discussion is so wrong in every way.



My feelings are more important than objective facts and the whole world has to lie to themselves to suit my wants and if you don't I'll kill myself...


And they wonder why there is a huge amount of people out there who are utterly sick of them?

Girly Gal

PreparationH wrote: »

Another GLARING reason why this whole T discussion is so wrong in every way.



My feelings are more important than objective facts and the whole world has to lie to themselves to suit my wants and if you don't I'll kill myself...


And they wonder why there is a huge amount of people out there who are utterly sick of them?

This doesn't just apply to the transgender debate, it seems to be in all aspects of life now where people demand to get their own way and live "their truth" whatever that's supposed to mean and everyone else are expected to sit back and let it happen otherwise your accused of discrimination and threatened with being cancelled

Sudden Valley

I would that at the moment transwomen who gone through all the operations and perhaps look feminine wouldd use ladies toilets. Would they not be harasssd if they used the gents or be outing themselves to people that they were born the other gender. At the moment is is illegal fro transwomen to use the ladies?

Girly Gal

Sudden Valley wrote: »

I would that at the moment transwomen who gone through all the operations and perhaps look feminine wouldd use ladies toilets. Would they not be harasssd if they used the gents or be outing themselves to people that they were born the other gender. At the moment is is illegal fro transwomen to use the ladies?

If they pass, I'd imagine they use the ladies toilets as if they pass no one would notice them, also it would be strange to expect them to use the gents as you say it would out themselves and put them in possible danger.Not sure what transwomen who don't pass do, maybe they don't use the ladies or gents and wait until they get home or maybe use the disabled toilets instead.

Gruffalux

Sudden Valley wrote: »

I would that at the moment transwomen who gone through all the operations and perhaps look feminine wouldd use ladies toilets. Would they not be harasssd if they used the gents or be outing themselves to people that they were born the other gender. At the moment is is illegal fro transwomen to use the ladies?

This is an interesting point. It is full of complexity and cannot be dealt with easily. And certainly not where society is held over a barrel where they must deny biological reality or be framed as monsters.

Transwomen have actually long been using women's toilets and facilities and most women have actually not had a problem with it. Shock/Horror!

Women are sensible and know that transwomen who are presenting as female have likely undergone a lot of social, medical and psychological trauma and pain to do so and this is not the problem here. There has been normal compassionate humanity exercised by most people about use of facilities for ages.


But this is not the goal for radical transactivism. TRAs want people who self identify as female to be allowed have complete access to all spaces that have been hitherto protected as sex based spaces. This is a far bigger array of qualifying people, and much more open to abuse. TRAs want it accepted that there is no such thing as biological reality. That transwomen are actual women. That transmen are actual men. Just simply by saying so. Nothing else. This leaves intimate spaces and sex segregated arenas wide open to abuse eg sports, rape centres. It cannot be ideologically dealt with - it must be addressed honestly and frankly as many complex issues.

As an aside 5 - 10% of transwomen have sex reassignment surgery. There are widely varying presentations of transgenderism that are pushed now as functioning to change biological reality. At peak identity politics transgenderism has actually almost lost meaning.

PreparationH

Sudden Valley wrote: »

I would that at the moment transwomen who gone through all the operations and perhaps look feminine wouldd use ladies toilets. Would they not be harasssd if they used the gents or be outing themselves to people that they were born the other gender. At the moment is is illegal fro transwomen to use the ladies?

From what I've seen the T that go through all the operations come out the other side looking like some caricature of women, like this is how they perceive what a good looking woman looks like, completely from a male perspective of course...



Plus when you're all going to the same plastic surgeons... you're gonna look the same.

Girly Gal

PreparationH wrote: »

From what I've seen the T that go through all the operations come out the other side looking like some caricature of women, like this is how they perceive what a good looking woman looks like, completely from a male perspective of course...



Plus when you're all going to the same plastic surgeons... you're gonna look the same.

That's a nasty uncalled for remark and really doesn't have anything to do with the subject being discussed

PreparationH

Girly Gal wrote: »

That's a nasty uncalled for remark and really doesn't have anything to do with the subject being discussed

You think? I think what T organizations and the T ideology have done to children with medical experimentation is reprehensible and I think what TRA's have done to peoples lives and careers both cowardly and disgusting so, quite frankly, a little pointing out "how things are" is in the ha'penny place in comparison.



Maybe if we all weren't so fawningly delicate all of the time we might just be able to tell these poor people the truth and the conversation wouldn't end up with a mermaid style bodily harm threat!

raclle

Gruffalox wrote: »

TRAs want people who self identify as female to be allowed have complete access to all spaces that have been hitherto protected as sex based spaces. This is a far bigger array of qualifying people, and much more open to abuse. TRAs want it accepted that there is no such thing as biological reality. That transwomen are actual women. That transmen are actual men. Just simply by saying so. Nothing else. This leaves intimate spaces and sex segregated arenas wide open to abuse eg sports, rape centres. It cannot be ideologically dealt with - it must be addressed honestly and frankly as many complex issues.

This self righteous attitude is actually bizarre for a group that want to be recognised. Do they have no concerns about the consequences? I'm sorry but trying to push this onto society won't end well at all and I honestly can't see how this would work for such a very small minority

Girly Gal

PreparationH wrote: »

You think? I think what T organizations and the T ideology have done to children with medical experimentation is reprehensible and I think what TRA's have done to peoples lives and careers both cowardly and disgusting so, quite frankly, a little pointing out "how things are" is in the ha'penny place in comparison.



Maybe if we all weren't so fawningly delicate all of the time we might just be able to tell these poor people the truth and the conversation wouldn't end up with a mermaid style bodily harm threat!

I agree with alot of what you are saying and what's happening with kids transitioning is totally wrong and the silencing of people and cancelling those with opposing views is wrong,but, I just think you're comment was uncalled for and didn't contribute anything to the debate.

Errashareesh

I'm sure this is a perfectly balanced take on what actually happened, and not an attempt to conflate those who agree with JK Rowling with far right thugs at all at all.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/08/31/gender-critical-posie-parker-jk-rowling-banner-black-lives-matter-protesters-transphobia/

I mean, no person of colour at all supports JKR.

Seriously though, it's awesome seeing people of colour tell those woke idiots that they do not get to speak for them, and they are actually using their white privilege to be a voice for black and brown folk... rather than, y'know, letting black and brown people speak for themselves.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Errashareesh wrote: »

I'm sure this is a perfectly balanced take on what actually happened, and not an attempt to conflate those who agree with JK Rowling with far right thugs at all at all.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/08/31/gender-critical-posie-parker-jk-rowling-banner-black-lives-matter-protesters-transphobia/

I mean, no person of colour at all supports JKR.

Seriously though, it's awesome seeing people of colour tell those woke idiots that they do not get to speak for them, and they are actually using their white privilege to be a voice for black and brown folk... rather than, y'know, letting black and brown people speak for themselves.

Pink News is a ridiculous publication. When Rowling gave her statements about this debate over the summer, they became quite obsessive about her. Reams and reams of articles about her that went far above normal reporting.

I'd have to read more about the above clash but I understand that the BLM protesters approached the gender critical speakers who were nearly finished with their event.

I have to say, I'm not the biggest fan of Posie Parker but her 'I love JK Rowling' stunt over the summer was inspired. It very neatly highlighted the hyperbole used by the most militant transgender rights activists.

PreparationH

I'd love to see Pinknews and the others drop the pretence and just admit that they are T news and couldn't give a fiddlers about the LGB's. The manner in which they treat the people at the LGB Alliance is an absolute disgrace. Their hatred for an organisation that simply doesn't buy the T agenda is visceral and really tells you all you need to know about the people at Pinknews.

conorhal

PreparationH wrote: »

I'd love to see Pinknews and the others drop the pretence and just admit that they are T news and couldn't give a fiddlers about the LGB's. The manner in which they treat the people at the LGB Alliance is an absolute disgrace. Their hatred for an organisation that simply doesn't buy the T agenda is visceral and really tells you all you need to know about the people at Pinknews.

I was laughing as I read that article lamenting that Mumsnet was out on the march.
Is it just me or does anybody else think it's mildly hilarious that the T's insanity has radicalized the middle class, latte sipping, yoga yummy mummies of Mumsnet and turned them into internet $h1tposters and MEME marchers?

The T's seem to have an obsession with the site because it’s one of the few boards that, by it's very nature, is designed around cis women's experience and thus hard for the T's to gain any traction on.

Gruffalux

conorhal wrote: »

I was laughing as I read that article lamenting that Mumsnet was out on the march.
Is it just me or does anybody else think it's mildly hilarious that the T's insanity has radicalized the middle class, latte sipping, yoga yummy mummies of Mumsnet and turned them into internet $h1tposters and MEME marchers?

The T's seem to have an obsession with the site because it’s one of the few boards that, by it's very nature, is designed around cis women's experience and thus hard for the T's to gain any traction on.

Whoa there! The darker side of Internet sh1tposting has always been younger men and older women. That is what I have always seen on the outer reaches on the Internet galaxy. We are both at our creative heights in those years

I know you mean no harm but don't use cis Natal will do at a push but cis attempts to create subcategories of the one indivisible category of the female (or male) sex. A woman is an adult human female. A transwoman is a male who has transitioned in some way to express themselves as a woman. Could be surgery, could be hormones, could be simply a mood. And that is fine - but they are a transwoman (if they want to be|), not a woman. Plus cis has been turned into such a slur. Look at William Shatner fighting that corner with the women in ...yes...one of the weirder reaches of the Internet galaxy

Neyite

conorhal wrote: »

I was laughing as I read that article lamenting that Mumsnet was out on the march.
Is it just me or does anybody else think it's mildly hilarious that the T's insanity has radicalized the middle class, latte sipping, yoga yummy mummies of Mumsnet and turned them into internet $h1tposters and MEME marchers?

The T's seem to have an obsession with the site because it’s one of the few boards that, by it's very nature, is designed around cis women's experience and thus hard for the T's to gain any traction on.

Mumsnet has had a strong feminist base before that, so it's incorrect to say that the Trans Activisim prompted them to get involved. What has happened is that other mummy forums are fully supportive of Mermaids etc and delete any dissenting discussion of trans issues. Mumsnet lets those discussions stand as long as certain rules such as mis-gendering and hateful speech being forbidden are followed. Other forums just delete on sight and ban the posters.

Having said that, because they permitted discussion such as puberty blockers for children, rapists self ID-ing to get into a female prison it prompted a lot more people to think deeper about trans issues.

Mumsnet have history of activism in other areas, such as ousting Bounty reps out of maternity wards and currently they are campaigning to ban 'rough sex' as a defence for defendants accused of murder of an intimate partner to name just a couple off the top of my head.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

conorhal wrote: »

I was laughing as I read that article lamenting that Mumsnet was out on the march.
Is it just me or does anybody else think it's mildly hilarious that the T's insanity has radicalized the middle class, latte sipping, yoga yummy mummies of Mumsnet and turned them into internet $h1tposters and MEME marchers?

The T's seem to have an obsession with the site because it’s one of the few boards that, by it's very nature, is designed around cis women's experience and thus hard for the T's to gain any traction on.

Neyite wrote: »

Mumsnet has had a strong feminist base before that, so it's incorrect to say that the Trans Activisim prompted them to get involved. What has happened is that other mummy forums are fully supportive of Mermaids etc and delete any dissenting discussion of trans issues. Mumsnet lets those discussions stand as long as certain rules such as mis-gendering and hateful speech being forbidden are followed. Other forums just delete on sight and ban the posters.

Having said that, because they permitted discussion such as puberty blockers for children, rapists self ID-ing to get into a female prison it prompted a lot more people to think deeper about trans issues.

Mumsnet have history of activism in other areas, such as ousting Bounty reps out of maternity wards and currently they are campaigning to ban 'rough sex' as a defence for defendants accused of murder of an intimate partner to name just a couple off the top of my head.

I'm fascinated by the opprobrium Mumsnet receives from many different corners. It is bitched about so much but when I visit the site, I can't really see what is so objectionable about it. I don't know why it is so vilified. I admire the fact that it allows discussion for all the above-mentioned topics that other messageboards are quick to shut down. Indeed we are more restricted here on boards.ie in what we can say on this topic than they are on Mumsnet.

PreparationH

conorhal wrote: »

cis

I agree with what you said but can I ask you to please stop using this hateful term. "Cis" is a term created to marginalise normal people and should never be used, ever.

RWCNT

PreparationH wrote: »

I agree with what you said but can I ask you to please stop using this hateful term. "Cis" is a term created to marginalise normal people and should never be used, ever.

It's really not. I agree that it's a pretty confusing and unnecessary label but it's not a slur or hateful term. Big Trans isn't crafting some sort of conspiracy to marginalise you, don't worry.

chopperbyrne

RWCNT wrote: »

It's really not. I agree that it's a pretty confusing and unnecessary label but it's not a slur or hateful term. Big Trans isn't crafting some sort of conspiracy to marginalise you, don't worry.

CIS is just a scientific term, in the same way ****** is a bundle of sticks, queer is something strange, and chink is a narrow opening.

It has become a slur through it's usage.

PreparationH

RWCNT wrote: »

It's really not. I agree that it's a pretty confusing and unnecessary label but it's not a slur or hateful term. Big Trans isn't crafting some sort of conspiracy to marginalise you, don't worry.

Sorry, it seems we're going to have to disagree.



I am a straight, white Man and considering I have paid my taxes all of my life, never been in trouble with the law and done my best to help all of those around me I am bloody proud of what I am. I will not carry the labels of those who hate my immutable characteristics because of their own self-loathing.


Cis is a hate term. It's the same as Terf. Only those who hate us use it.

Gruffalux

I know Cis is a slur because most of the results on the first pages of a google search tell me repeatedly that Cis is NOT a slur. :pac:

Google really is gone to the dogs.

RWCNT

PreparationH wrote: »

Sorry, it seems we're going to have to disagree.



I am a straight, white Man and considering I have paid my taxes all of my life, never been in trouble with the law and done my best to help all of those around me I am bloody proud of what I am. I will not carry the labels of those who hate my immutable characteristics because of their own self-loathing.


Cis is a hate term. It's the same as Terf. Only those who hate us use it.

*Straight white cis man

You sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, to be honest.

Chudwick Boseman

Let me get this straight, I am supposed to consider a man who mutilates his penis into a 'vagina', one that he has to 'dilate' regularly so that it doesn't close up, a woman?

PreparationH

RWCNT wrote: »

*Straight white cis man

You sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, to be honest.

Why is it when anyone says anything against the those who openly hate us and actively want to destroy our lives because their precious feelings are hurt, that person has a "chip on his shoulder"?


Cast a slur, ignore what's being said and attempt to impress those around you? Is that it?

PreparationH

Chudwick Boseman wrote: »

Let me get this straight, I am supposed to consider a man who mutilates his penis into a 'vagina', one that he has to 'dilate' regularly so that it doesn't close up, a woman?

Astonishingly... that's what they actually tell you, you MUST believe. And if you don't you're a hate filled bigot and if you try to tell these people what they're doing is wrong, they'll brand you as someone participating in conversion therapy.


I'm not joking, this is what they do.

Ash.J.Williams

chopperbyrne wrote: »

CIS is just a scientific term, in the same way ****** is a bundle of sticks, queer is something strange, and chink is a narrow opening.

It has become a slur through it's usage.

There’s a place in Wexford heavily influenced by french speaking Normans and one of the words in the vernacular is “quare”