J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

suicide_circus

recyclops wrote: »

Cormoran Strike

What a terrible name

Gruffalux

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

For those looking to read more of Rowling's transphobia, here's an article with excerpts from her series of adult fiction books which she writes under a pen name (would you believe Rowling's chosen pen name was of the guy who helped to create gay conversion therapy, which, at that time, involved basically frying the brains of homosexual? Oh Rowling, you misunderstood scamp!)

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pkeynz/jk-rowlings-transphobia-wasnt-hard-to-find-she-wrote-a-book-about-it

Hahah! What an odd coincidence. The Lord of the Universe is surely Loki, he who mixes the mead with malice :pac:
I believe her.

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yup, you know better than the person who chose the name.



:pac:

When the person who chooses the name of a man who literally pioneered the frying of brains of homosexuals then also goes and writes transphobic books, and uses her platform to repeatedly produce and promote transphobic content then ye, I don't think this one is much of a limb to go out on.

TomTomTim

sheepskin1234 wrote: »

Was on reddit thread about JK yesterday and was shocked at the widespread support for hating her for this book.

Should minorities only be heroes anymore?

It's really sad how people can't have opinions anymore. Thought police are real nowadays.

If I think X is wrong or crazy, I should be allowed say it.

If you're shocked, it must be your first day on Reddit. It's an incredibly narrow minded website, where 70% of the user base agree on everything. Boards would be this way too if certain types had their way.

Sir Oxman

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

When the person who chooses the name of a man who literally pioneered the frying of brains of homosexuals then also goes and writes transphobic books, and uses her platform to repeatedly produce and promote transphobic content then ye, I don't think this one is much of a limb to go out on.

Keep on receiving those opinions (and broadcasting them in an increasingly erratic way)

It's so much easier to let someone else do the thinking.

Sudden Valley

I thought cross-dressing is linked with the trans community so now I am totally confused. I think if Rowling was accused of being homophobic and her novel was about a straight person pretending to be gay to get close and kill someone it would just reinforce the view that the author has a preconceived negative attitude to those people.
I think Rowling would have expected this response so is not bothered.

Errashareesh

What views of hers are transphobic?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

When the person who chooses the name of a man who literally pioneered the frying of brains of homosexuals then also goes and writes transphobic books, and uses her platform to repeatedly produce and promote transphobic content then ye, I don't think this one is much of a limb to go out on.

What has JK Rowling said that is transphobic? Nobody can ever answer this. Hint: highlighting the importance of sex-based rights and that women should have language to describe themselves exclusively isn't transphobic.

Depicting a transgender character in a negative light in fiction isn't transphobic either and to suggest otherwise is laughable. Are only positive depictions allowed? A truly ridiculous notion.

So please, point to me the statements Rowling has made that are transphobic. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

LineOfBeauty

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Keep on receiving those opinions (and broadcasting them in an increasingly erratic way)

It's so much easier to let someone else do the thinking.

This sounds like a prepared response that didn't quite fit what went before it. Can you expand on that?

Also if you're receiving opinions from Qanon style Facebook groups, isn't that just the same as "receiving opinions"

Would the best thing to do not be to actually gather opinions across a wide spectrum of opinion and then apply it to your actual real life experiences in order to then form an opinion that best reflects you?

Or, you know, you could just say "ye thought police can't stop me!" Whatever suits.

SusieBlue

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

When the person who chooses the name of a man who literally pioneered the frying of brains of homosexuals then also goes and writes transphobic books, and uses her platform to repeatedly produce and promote transphobic content then ye, I don't think this one is much of a limb to go out on.

Yeah she definitely hates the gays, that must be why she chose one of the most beloved, adored and popular characters in her book series to be a gay man. :rolleyes:

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

What has JK Rowling said that is transphobic? Nobody can ever answer this. Hint: highlighting the importance of sex-based rights and that women should have language to describe themselves exclusively isn't transphobic.

Depicting a transgender character in a negative light in fiction isn't transphobic either and to suggest otherwise is laughable. Are only positive depictions allowed? A truly ridiculous notion.

So please, point to me the statements Rowling has made that are transphobic. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Funny because we've debated several times over different threads, each time I've given you examples (including in this thread in excerpts from her own book) which you then ignore and say "I've never been given examples!"

Let's try a different tact. Why is it important to you that Rowling not be labelled as transgender? Considering for a moment that your own views, which you spout routinely on threads on Boards, could be considered transphobic. Rather than getting into transgenderism (which, in our other discussions is apparently unavoidable) why not simply acknowledge what she is? What is your definition of the word "transphobic"?

LineOfBeauty

SusieBlue wrote: »

Yeah she definitely hates the gays, that must be why she chose one of the most beloved, adored and popular characters in her book series to be a gay man. :rolleyes:

I've read each Harry Potter book at least 4 times I'd say conservatively. As a young gay boy at the time I thought I'd pick up on a gay character in the book (especially given how few positive gay representatives there were in entertainment when I was reading these books). Better go for a 5th time I guess..

raclle

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

What has JK Rowling said that is transphobic? Nobody can ever answer this. Hint: highlighting the importance of sex-based rights and that women should have language to describe themselves exclusively isn't transphobic.

Depicting a transgender character in a negative light in fiction isn't transphobic either and to suggest otherwise is laughable. Are only positive depictions allowed? A truly ridiculous notion.

So please, point to me the statements Rowling has made that are transphobic. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Sshhh!!! nobody is allowed an opinion anymore. You'll get us all in trouble

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Funny because we've debated several times over different threads, each time I've given you examples (including in this thread in excerpts from her own book) which you then ignore and say "I've never been given examples!"

Let's try a different tact. Why is it important to you that Rowling not be labelled as transgender? Considering for a moment that your own views, which you spout routinely on threads on Boards, could be considered transphobic. Rather than getting into transgenderism (which, in our other discussions is apparently unavoidable) why not simply acknowledge what she is? What is your definition of the word "transphobic"?

Funnily enough, that’s not how I remember it. You mostly chucked insults at me, if I recall. I’m happy to link to that thread.

Let’s not try a different tack. How about you answer the question? Like I said, if she has said transphobic things, you shouldn’t have a problem quoting them. You made the claim, the onus is on you to back them up. I already know you won’t provide any evidence which is fine by me. That in itself is telling.

And quoting from a work of fiction isn’t proof unless you think that fictional characters are indicative of their author’s viewpoints.

LineOfBeauty

raclle wrote: »

Sshhh!!! nobody is allowed an opinion anymore. You'll get us all in trouble

But you've all offered the exact same opinion...

Errashareesh

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

What has JK Rowling said that is transphobic? Nobody can ever answer this

Nobody ever ever answers it (apart from going off on irrelevant rants, but actually addressing the question - they can't, because what she said is not transphobic).

Sir Oxman

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

This sounds like a prepared response that didn't quite fit what went before it. Can you expand on that?

Also if you're receiving opinions from Qanon style Facebook groups, isn't that just the same as "receiving opinions"

Would the best thing to do not be to actually gather opinions across a wide spectrum of opinion and then apply it to your actual real life experiences in order to then form an opinion that best reflects you?

Or, you know, you could just say "ye thought police can't stop me!" Whatever suits.

You are the poster who has branded that author as writing 'transphobic' essays and now, a 'transphobic' book of fiction nevermind that DEFINITELY she decided to write under 'transphobic' AND 'homophobic' nom-de-plume because, well someone else told you.



How about you give examples of her 'transphobia' from her essays?

It is preferable to form your own opinion - that does include reading (in this instance) her own words not someone elses interpretation of them before adopting a received opinion.

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Funnily enough, that’s not how I remember it. You mostly chucked insults at me, if I recall.

Let’s not try a different tack. How about you answer the question? Like I said, if she has said transphobic things, you shouldn’t have a problem quoting them? You made the claim the onus is on you.

And quoting from a work of fiction isn’t proof unless you think that fictional characters are indicative of their author’s viewpoints.

Odd, I remember you demonizing a tiny portion of the population, funny how memory works.

By the way, again I've given you an example already in this thread. The article quite literally answers both your 2nd and 3rd paragraph in regards to how fiction narratives work. So can we try my tact for a bit since I've done your tact before you even asked for it?

Errashareesh

How did ODB demonise trans people?

Much lies is all those who seek to redefine woman have.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Odd, I remember you demonizing a tiny portion of the population, funny how memory works.

By the way, again I've given you an example already in this thread. The article quite literally answers both your 2nd and 3rd paragraph in regards to how fiction narratives work. So can we try my tact for a bit since I've done your tact before you even asked for it?

You pointed to a work of fiction. Do you really need it explained to you that authors write all sorts of characters, many of whom they are nothing like? Is this really where we are?

So, what has JK Rowling herself said in a personal capacity that is transphobic? You can’t answer, can you? Fine by me. I’m happy to highlight it wherever I can.

keano_afc

I assume Thomas Harris is a big dirty TERF for creating Wild Bill?

LineOfBeauty

Sir Oxman wrote: »

You are the poster who has branded that author as writing 'transphobic' essays and now, a 'transphobic' book of fiction nevermind that DEFINITELY she decided to write under 'transphobic' AND 'homophobic' nom-de-plume because, well someone else told you.



How about you give examples of her 'transphobia' from her essays?

It is preferable to form your own opinion - that does include reading (in this instance) her own words not someone elses interpretation of them before adopting a received opinion.

Yes, knowledge is generally acquired, not inherited. Nobody is born knowing the name of Robert Galbraith, you hear about it, you learn about it, and then you condemn him as an evil man. You probably don't use it as your pen name. You definitely don't use it as your pen name if your views on a community in which he tortured are called into question, unless of course you aren't entirely against that kind of thing. If the shoe fits and all that...

I mean I'm not pasting the article here for you, I sent a link.

What words, or actions, of hers would make you believe she isn't a transphobe? Infact wouldn't her association and recommendation of noted transphobes on social media make one believe her to be far more likely to be a transphobe than not a transphobe. For example, if I go to the shop each day and buy a scone, I walk into the office with that scone each day, I eat the scone, my co-workers see me eat the scone, we go to the cafe together, they offer to buy me a scone, I say no I'm gluten intolerant I can't eat scones. Because I've said it does not make it true, my co-workers have seen a pattern of behaviour emerge over the course of several months and many scones. See what I'm getting at here?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Yes, knowledge is generally acquired, not inherited. Nobody is born knowing the name of Robert Galbraith, you hear about it, you learn about it, and then you condemn him as an evil man. You probably don't use it as your pen name. You definitely don't use it as your pen name if your views on a community in which he tortured are called into question, unless of course you aren't entirely against that kind of thing. If the shoe fits and all that...

I mean I'm not pasting the article here for you, I sent a link.

What words, or actions, of hers would make you believe she isn't a transphobe? Infact wouldn't her association and recommendation of noted transphobes on social media make one believe her to be far more likely to be a transphobe than not a transphobe. For example, if I go to the shop each day and buy a scone, I walk into the office with that scone each day, I eat the scone, my co-workers see me eat the scone, we go to the cafe together, they offer to buy me a scone, I say no I'm gluten intolerant I can't eat scones. Because I've said it does not make it true, my co-workers have seen a pattern of behaviour emerge over the course of several months and many scones. See what I'm getting at here?

That’s not how it works. The person who labels her must be able to say why they have given her the label. So, go on then. Concrete examples.

Bob Gray

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Infact wouldn't her association and recommendation of noted transphobes on social media make one believe her to be far more likely to be a transphobe than not a transphobe.

Who?
Genuine question.

Errashareesh

I think people WANT her to be a transphobe. They seem to love it.

Is there really evidence that she actually hates transgender people? That she does not accept people identify as another gender and this causes them great emotional pain until they can be free to be themselves? I mean be honest - she hates such folk?

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

You pointed to a work of fiction. Do you really need it explained to you that authors write all sorts of characters, many of whom they are nothing like? Is this really where we are?

So, what has JK Rowling herself said in a personal capacity that is transphobic? You can’t answer, can you? Fine by me. I’m happy to highlight it wherever I can.

Right, let' go for it. Fiction! In your view, how do fiction narratives work in terms of perspective? Eg. If I'm writing from the point of view of a character or various characters over the span of a book, the perspective I'm receiving from that character's POV will be shaped by the characteristics given to them by the author (eg. in Harry Potter, the point of view in each chapter of each bar, save for a handful, are from the perspective of the hero character Harry Potter whose morales we believe to be good and true, so when he describes Snape as being hook nosed, greasy and generally cast in a negative light, it is so that the reader is suspicious of this character because we trust that our perspective of the entire universe is shaped through the trustworthy eyes of Harry Potter. If the perspective were viewed through the eyes of Snape, he would hardly describe himself in such fashion). In her books, the Potter equivalent, through which the story is told from a narrative point of view, describes the trans character in an openly derogatory, mocking and condescending way, the character through which the reader is granted access to this world and through whose eyes we must judge this world. Can you not see how that's problematic?

Sudden Valley

I think she is more phobic than actually hating trans. Like she wants them (even if the trans is fully transitioned) out of Female-only areas for fear they will attack the women.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Errashareesh wrote: »

I think people WANT her to be a transphobe. They seem to love it.

Is there really evidence that she actually hates transgender people? That she does not accept people identify as another gender and this causes them great emotional pain until they can be free to be themselves? I mean be honest - she hates such folk?

There’s no evidence. Hence the swerving.

Sudden Valley wrote: »

I think she is more phobic than actually hating trans. Like she wants them (even if the trans is fully transitioned) out of Female-only areas for fear they will attack the women.

Wanting to maintain sex-segregated spaces isn’t phobic. Why do we have them if they are not important? It’s not just about fear of attack. It’s about privacy and dignity.

suicide_circus

If a "transphobe" is anyone that does not agree that believing yourself to be X makes you X with no further evidence required, then i'm afraid the vast majority of the world population are transphobes.

I would class a "transphobe" as someone who dislikes trans people.

Sudden Valley

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

There’s no evidence. Hence the swerving.



Wanting to maintain sex-segregated spaces isn’t phobic. Why do we have them if they are not important? It’s not just about fear of attack. It’s about privacy and dignity.

I'm not sure where a transwoman is supposed to go then if fully transitioned and no longer looks like a bloke. Hard to see the safety in having them go to the gents or male changing rooms and be safe from harassment. I hate the use of the term phobic as an irrational fear is not the same as hating someone for what they are.