J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

I seriously doubt you would lose your job or anything of the sort. But yes some people would call you a bigot. Not for the reasons you think though. Here's why:

Summing up who you are attracted to by their status of belonging to a minority group is awful behaviour.

I had a friend who moved here from Singapore over 10 years ago. Reasonay confident, normal guy. He'd been rejected before and was no shrinking violet. However, when he moved here if he would even talk to someone In a bar he would astoundingly regularly be told immediately "sorry I'm not into Asians". This would even occur in situations where he had no interest in the person. This had a pretty nasty effect on him and coupled with the other forms of racism be experienced left him with a lot of issues around being Asian and self worth and whether he was valued in other aspects of his life.

Now thankfully it doesn't happen that often anymore. In fact it rarely happens at all. Because people have wised up that openly saying you won't even interact with a person because of their race is racist.

Nobody is requiring that these people would be forced to sleep with or date someone they are not attracted to. But openly stating these preferences is racist. There is no need to come into a public forum and state that you won't even consider dating a black person. And if a black or Asian person approaches you, you can make your excuses without referencing their race.

All of this applies to trans people. If you believe you couldn't possibly date or sleep with a trans person.....ok. There is no need to come onto a forum and make reference to their lack of your required primary sexual organs. If you feel the need to do this then YES. you are transphobic.

I also don't believe these people and their supposed sexual red lines that cannot be crossed. I don't believe people who say they will not sleep with Asian people are not attracted to ALL Asian people. Usually they have some ****ty stereotype in their head. I had a friend who claimed that "he just wasn't into black people sexually" and that it was just a sexual preference etc. Guess what. He moved to New York and has now slept with multiple black people. People who advertise their red lines are usually just being well, a little silly. We cross these lines all the time when were confronted with..... Actual individuals. And when advertising these red lines is part of a campaign to dehumanise people (I'm not attracted to trans women therefore they're not real women) then YES. it's transphobic.

Separately to people advertising their red lines, there is the issue of why people have these red lines in the first place. Why is this person not into Asians people, or at least believes they would never date an Asian person. It's impossible to understand the roots of sexual preferences. If a gay man or staright woman says they absolutely need the person they're dating to have a penis and they would Equally not date a cis man who lost their penis in a horrific accident then I would say NO. That is not transphobic. If that person feels the need to publically state they would never date a trans person then YES. Its transphobic.

So hatrickpatrick the hyperbole about "being denied" your "right to a sexual preference" is absolute nonsense. You're perfectly entitled to your sexual preference. But how you publically talk about your sexual preference may cause people to make judgements about you. TOUGH.

Also, you seem to be saying that a trans activist who DOESNT require straight men/gay women to be attracted to trans women and straight women/gay men to be attracted to trans men is a hypocrite. This is completely false and is just a basic misunderstanding of trans activists beliefs.

Nobody is saying that trans women and cis women are identical. Just that they are both women. You are perceiving trans activists arguments through your own beliefs. You believe that only cis women are "real women" so if a trans activist says a trans woman is a woman, you believe they are claiming she is identical in every way to a cis woman. They are not claiming that. It is a faulty misunderstanding of their position and using it to develop your own arguments is a mistake.

Lastly, I hope you can drop this "deafening silence" nonsense now. You've been fully answered. I imagine of someone has previously not engaged with you on this issue is because nobody wants to defend a position they never held, or verbalised. Why would anyone fee the need to defend your assertion that people were being "denied their right to a sexual preference" when they never made that assertion themselves?

So, in sum, genital preference is not transphobic as long as people keep their preference a secret?

Dyr

So if some fella hits on a man its okay for the man to say "I'm not into men, pal"

But if the same fella decides that he's a woman then its bigoted to say "I'm not into men, pal"

Such fun.

Airyfairy12

LLMMLL wrote: »

I seriously doubt you would lose your job or anything of the sort. But yes some people would call you a bigot. Not for the reasons you think though. Here's why:

Summing up who you are attracted to by their status of belonging to a minority group is awful behaviour.

I had a friend who moved here from Singapore over 10 years ago. Reasonay confident, normal guy. He'd been rejected before and was no shrinking violet. However, when he moved here if he would even talk to someone In a bar he would astoundingly regularly be told immediately "sorry I'm not into Asians". This would even occur in situations where he had no interest in the person. This had a pretty nasty effect on him and coupled with the other forms of racism be experienced left him with a lot of issues around being Asian and self worth and whether he was valued in other aspects of his life.

Now thankfully it doesn't happen that often anymore. In fact it rarely happens at all. Because people have wised up that openly saying you won't even interact with a person because of their race is racist.

Nobody is requiring that these people would be forced to sleep with or date someone they are not attracted to. But openly stating these preferences is racist. There is no need to come into a public forum and state that you won't even consider dating a black person. And if a black or Asian person approaches you, you can make your excuses without referencing their race.

All of this applies to trans people. If you believe you couldn't possibly date or sleep with a trans person.....ok. There is no need to come onto a forum and make reference to their lack of your required primary sexual organs. If you feel the need to do this then YES. you are transphobic.

I also don't believe these people and their supposed sexual red lines that cannot be crossed. I don't believe people who say they will not sleep with Asian people are not attracted to ALL Asian people. Usually they have some ****ty stereotype in their head. I had a friend who claimed that "he just wasn't into black people sexually" and that it was just a sexual preference etc. Guess what. He moved to New York and has now slept with multiple black people. People who advertise their red lines are usually just being well, a little silly. We cross these lines all the time when were confronted with..... Actual individuals. And when advertising these red lines is part of a campaign to dehumanise people (I'm not attracted to trans women therefore they're not real women) then YES. it's transphobic.

Separately to people advertising their red lines, there is the issue of why people have these red lines in the first place. Why is this person not into Asians people, or at least believes they would never date an Asian person. It's impossible to understand the roots of sexual preferences. If a gay man or staright woman says they absolutely need the person they're dating to have a penis and they would Equally not date a cis man who lost their penis in a horrific accident then I would say NO. That is not transphobic. If that person feels the need to publically state they would never date a trans person then YES. Its transphobic.

So hatrickpatrick the hyperbole about "being denied" your "right to a sexual preference" is absolute nonsense. You're perfectly entitled to your sexual preference. But how you publically talk about your sexual preference may cause people to make judgements about you. TOUGH.

Also, you seem to be saying that a trans activist who DOESNT require straight men/gay women to be attracted to trans women and straight women/gay men to be attracted to trans men is a hypocrite. This is completely false and is just a basic misunderstanding of trans activists beliefs.

Nobody is saying that trans women and cis women are identical. Just that they are both women. You are perceiving trans activists arguments through your own beliefs. You believe that only cis women are "real women" so if a trans activist says a trans woman is a woman, you believe they are claiming she is identical in every way to a cis woman. They are not claiming that. It is a faulty misunderstanding of their position and using it to develop your own arguments is a mistake.

Lastly, I hope you can drop this "deafening silence" nonsense now. You've been fully answered. I imagine of someone has previously not engaged with you on this issue is because nobody wants to defend a position they never held, or verbalised. Why would anyone fee the need to defend your assertion that people were being "denied their right to a sexual preference" when they never made that assertion themselves?

Comparing blatant racism in dating to sexual preference is completely ridiculous. From what ive read in your post, it sounds to me like you are suggesting people can have their sexual preference but they cant express those preferences.
So, if a woman makes a pass at me I can reject her but can never express that the reason I rejected her is because im straight or the fact she is female.
If a trans man makes a pass at me, as a straight person im not sexually interested in the trans community, similarly I can reject him but must not express why I rejected him.
If I make a pass at a gay man and he rejects me because im a woman, by your logic am I expected to be offended and call him a sexist?

It sounds like the trans community - mainly trans women, are offended that straight or some gay people wont have sex with them. Like everyone else theyre not entitled to sex and guilting/shaming or lying about their identity to get people to have sex with them or have relationships with them is wrong.

I will not accept your argument that this is in anyway similar to racism.

Regarding Cis women, I can accept that trans women are women but they must accept and understand the fears and concerns that cis women have.
I understand thats hard for trans women as they havn't grown up with the experiences of cis women, for example, most women have experienced physcial and sexual violence. Women constantly have to be on alert, not walk down certain roads or areas of town alone, especially after dark or times of day when places are quiet. Women have to be very careful about what public toilets and changing rooms they use and when they use them. We have to be careful about who we talk to and how we talk to people, especially strangers, find a balance between friendly and standoffish when talking to strange men, be wary of getting in taxis late at night.. this is our lived experience.

For trans women to come along and say that trans have the right to access cis women's refuges, toilets and changing rooms where cis women may be vulnerable and to accuse anyone who stands up for cis womens rights as transphobic is horrific, its actually gaslighting.
Trans women dont need access to cis womens private spaces which are in place to keep them safe.
Cis women need these safe spaces.

If saying that makes me transphobic well youre entitled to your opinion but it wont change mine.

Gruffalux

Woman is a term all on its own that does not need a pronoun qualifier. Those males of the species who identify as women can call themselves transwomen because the trans denotes they wish to express as the opposite gender to the reality of their biological sex.


Otherwise I agree with a lot of what you say, AiryFairy.

But I am not playing that TRA game of adding Cis to Woman. Woman is.

Edit _ I am really not meaning to be an arsehole making this point. I just LOATHE the word CIS.

LLMMLL

Gruffalox wrote: »

So, in sum, genital preference is not transphobic as long as people keep their preference a secret?

No not what I said at all. Genital preference isnt transphobic if it doesn't JUST apply to trans people. If someone requires their partner has a penis and would have no interest in a cis male that had lost his penis for whatever reason then that person is not transphobic.

LLMMLL

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Comparing blatant racism in dating to sexual preference is completely ridiculous.

You describe the racist situations I presented as BLATANT racism. Why is it racism to tell an Asian person you're not interested in them beacuase they're Asian but not transphobic to come into a public forum and proudly tell everyone you'd never have sex with a trans person?

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

No not what I said at all. Genital preference isnt transphobic if it doesn't JUST apply to trans people. If someone requires their partner has a penis and would have no interest in a cis male that had lost his penis for whatever reason then that person is not transphobic.

Hang on. If someone is in love with someone who loses their penis or has serious issues with their vagina, then it is likely that they will continue to stand by that person and cope together with what is actually a serious crises in both their lives. But if someone is dating off the bat and finds out that the prospective lover has not got the functioning genitalia they enjoy to have sex with then it is perfectly understandable that they may pass.

What you are asking is actually hard to wrap a mind around. A person is NOT transphobic ONLY if they reject an unexpected set of genitals on a trans person AND can say honestly hand on heart that they would reject anyone who does not have the required set of genitals. But if they would not reject someone who had the functioning genitalia they prefer, but would do re a trans person, then they are a transphobe. Can you see how fcuking mind meltingly ridiculous your inner political correctness is...?

BloodBath

Calling yourself straight is basically saying you would never have sex with somebody of the same sex.

By your logic why is that not homophobic?

Gruffalux

Jesus I just think I experienced some kind of mind implosion trying to figure out that sh1t.

raclle

Gruffalox wrote: »

What you are asking is actually hard to wrap a mind around. A person is NOT transphobic ONLY if they reject an unexpected set of genitals on a trans person AND can say honestly hand on heart that they would reject anyone who does not have the required set of genitals. But if they would not reject someone who had the functioning genitalia they prefer, but would do re a trans person, then they are a transphobe. Can you see how fcuking mind meltingly ridiculous your inner political correctness is...?

I cant stop laughing

raclle

LLMMLL

Gruffalox wrote: »

Hang on. If someone is in love with someone who loses their penis or has serious issues with their vagina, then it is likely that they will continue to stand by that person and cope together with what is actually a serious crises in both their lives. But if someone is dating off the bat and finds out that the prospective lover has not got the functioning genitalia they enjoy to have sex with then it is perfectly understandable that they may pass.

What you are asking is actually hard to wrap a mind around. A person is NOT transphobic ONLY if they reject an unexpected set of genitals on a trans person AND can say honestly hand on heart that they would reject anyone who does not have the required set of genitals. But if they would not reject someone who had the functioning genitalia they prefer, but would do re a trans person, then they are a transphobe. Can you see how fcuking mind meltingly ridiculous your inner political correctness is...?

Completely agree with your first paragraph.

As for the second paragraph if someone says the reason they won't sleep with a trans person is the absence of the genitals they require in a desired partner, but then has no issue with a non trans person who also lacks those genitals then they are telling porkies about why they do not want to sleep with the trans person.

I agree this conversation is ridiculous to an extent. But that's what happens when trabsphobes randomly feel the need to inform us that they would never sleep with a trans person. It's very odd behaviour indeed.

Gatling

Hi I'm a lesbian with a penis no interest in playing with , swallowing or hiding the sausage with another man even if he's wearing a skirt and calls himself asumpta .


I'm a lesbian with a penis and in the real world I'm man who likes women ,and lesbians but only the real ones not men in skirts .





2020 and people think covid is confusing

LLMMLL

BloodBath wrote: »

Calling yourself straight is basically saying you would never have sex with somebody of the same sex.

By your logic why is that not homophobic?

Um because not all men are gay. Why would it be homophobic lol.

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

Completely agree with your first paragraph.

As for the second paragraph if someone says the reason they won't sleep with a trans person is the absence of the genitals they require in a desired partner, but then has no issue with a non trans person who also lacks those genitals then they are telling porkies about why they do not want to sleep with the trans person.

I agree this conversation is ridiculous to an extent. But that's what happens when trabsphobes randomly feel the need to inform us that they would never sleep with a trans person. It's very odd behaviour indeed.

How many people do you think have no issue dating non - trans people who lack the genitals they prefer? This is angels on a pinhead level of speculative transphobia.

I openly say as a heterosexual woman that I would have zero interest whatsoever in a transman's fanny. None. What is odd about that? As a gay person are you interested in a transman's vagina?

LLMMLL

Gruffalox wrote: »

How many people do you think have no issue dating non - trans people who lack the genitals they prefer? This is angels on a pinhead level of speculative transphobia.

I openly say as a heterosexual woman that I would have zero interest whatsoever in a transman's fanny. None. What is odd about that? As a gay person are you interested in a transman's vagina?

It would competely depend on the transman. There's a lot of peens I have absolutely no interest in. I actually find all these dick obsessives hilarious. They must love all the random dick pics they get sent on dating apps.

Airyfairy12

LLMMLL wrote: »

It would competely depend on the transman. There's a lot of peens I have absolutely no interest in. I actually find all these dick obsessives hilarious. They must love all the random dick pics they get sent on dating apps.

Are you calling straight women and gay men penis obsessives?

LLMMLL

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Are you calling straight women and gay men penis obsessives?

No I'm not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Gervais08

LLMMLL wrote: »

You describe the racist situations I presented as BLATANT racism. Why is it racism to tell an Asian person you're not interested in them beacuase they're Asian but not transphobic to come into a public forum and proudly tell everyone you'd never have sex with a trans person?

That is absolute nonsense.

I’m a straight woman - I like men. I have no interest in sleeping with someone with a similar physique as me, girl’s bits don’t do it for me.

If I say to someone making an approach “I’m straight I’m not into women” there are people, like yourself, who would (if that were the case) tell me that person is trans and therefore a “man” I am not going to become attracted to them.

Sexual orientation is hard wired - it’s not “a phase” or an “identity”. Now I couldn’t give any ****s what someone says about me - I am who I am.

But I am concerned about the damage this identity nonsense or doing to my friends in the gay community. You are aware that there are backwards countries where they “treat” gay relationships in well off families by paying for gender reassignment surgery on one party.

The morons in the US Bible Belt want to “pray the day away”, you people want to shame it away by calling out perfectly normal gay women for not wanting to do it with a penis!

It’s a sickening attitude.

LLMMLL

Gervais08 wrote: »

That is absolute nonsense.

I’m a straight woman - I like men. I have no interest in sleeping with someone with a similar physique as me, girl’s bits don’t do it for me.

If I say to someone making an approach “I’m straight I’m not into women” there are people, like yourself, who would (if that were the case) tell me that person is trans and therefore a “man” I am not going to become attracted to them.

Sexual orientation is hard wired - it’s not “a phase” or an “identity”. Now I couldn’t give any ****s what someone says about me - I am who I am.

But I am concerned about the damage this identity nonsense or doing to my friends in the gay community. You are aware that there are backwards countries where they “treat” gay relationships in well off families by paying for gender reassignment surgery on one party.

The morons in the US Bible Belt want to “pray the day away”, you people want to shame it away by calling out perfectly normal gay women for not wanting to do it with a penis!

It’s a sickening attitude.

I assume the country you're referring to is Iran.

You are concerned that identity politics caused this situation in.....IRAN?

Iran is well known as the centre of identity politics.

Quantum Erasure

BloodBath wrote: »

Calling yourself straight is basically saying you would never have sex with somebody of the same sex.

By your logic why is that not homophobic?

LLMMLL wrote: »

Um because not all men are gay. Why would it be homophobic lol.

not all men are attracted to people of the same sex, why would that be transphobic lol

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

It would competely depend on the transman. There's a lot of peens I have absolutely no interest in. I actually find all these dick obsessives hilarious. They must love all the random dick pics they get sent on dating apps.

I feel quite left out of the modern world in that I have never received a dick pic. A disembodied penis seems to me to be an unusual prompt to love. But I am a tad old fashioned. A disembodied vagina would also strike me as being an obscure love trinket, but there you go. Having said that, and having about zero interest in random dicks, I love the one I get to use. It features quite highly in the list of things I love about its owner. Obsessive >>>> me <<<<Obsessive.

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

No I'm not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Who are the dick obsessives you find hilarious then?

LLMMLL

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

not all men are attracted to people of the same sex, why would that be transphobic lol

I never said it was

Quantum Erasure

LLMMLL wrote: »

I never said it was

Once you don't express your preferences in public, everythings grand so?

Spanish Eyes

What is this debate all about?

You either have balls and a prostate or a womb and a vagina.

I really don't get the trans activism at all. Do it, go for it, but don't tell me I have to acknowledge you. I don't care.

And whisper it.... most people don't give a shyte either.

Airyfairy12

LLMMLL wrote: »

No I'm not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What are you saying then? Who are these 'dick obsessed people who love receiving dick pics?'

I really dont understand what youre trying to say but my 2 cents, sexual and physcial attraction isnt just about a person's genitals, its male physique, bone structure, muscle, height, strength and genitals.

I cant change what im in into, I would never expect a gay, lesbian or bi person change their preferences. What youre saying is the total opposite of tolerance.

Quantum Erasure

Gruffalox wrote: »

I feel quite left out of the modern world in that I have never received a dick pic. A disembodied penis seems to me to be an unusual prompt to love....

PM sent.

LLMMLL

Gruffalox wrote: »

Who are the dick obsessives you find hilarious then?

People who ask me would I be interested in an anonymous symbolic persons penis or vagina. I'd really have to know who that penis or vagina was attached to to answer. But that's just me.

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

I never said it was

You are saying that if a person is not attracted to a trans person that is transphobic per se. You equate it to racism. So if a hetero guy said I am not attracted to trans women you say this is transphobic. Same with hetero gal and trans man. Same with gay guy and trans man . same with lesbian and transwoman. The reason why you are saying it is transphobic is because you believe that trans identifying person has undergone transubstantiation. That transwoman is female in your opinion. But can you not see how it gives rise to ludicrous realities. In order to satisfy your demand of human nature people will have to lie and be secretive. We will be regressing to a time of in the closet and behind closed doors regarding sexual preferences.