J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

CtevenSrowder

LLMMLL wrote: »

A lot. For instance, if a racist thinks white people are superior to black people, personally I would rather they did not go up and inform a random black person of their opinion. But I guess I'm a bit strange that way.

That is a false equivalence. You are suggesting that one would randomly go up to a transwomen and state that they don't want to date them.

What is far more likely to be the case is a transwomen trying it on with a man and him saying he isn't interested in transwomen. That in your view is transphobic. If he keeps this view to himself and says 'I don't date women who are over 5'7' this in your view is perfectly acceptable even if it's a lie.

It doesn't make much sense. It's like suggesting that an employer who refuses to hire black people isn't being racist unless he explicitly states to the prospective applicants that they are not being hired because they are black.

So if he doesn't say that and instead says they aren't experienced enough then that is not racist, even if he knows himself the real reason is because they are black.

In my view that person is a racist regardless, you seemingly don't. But I guess I am strange in that way.

Parabellum9

LLMMLL wrote: »

So debate is now "forcing your views on other people"? Then I suppose you are trying to force your views on me? If not then why is it different?

I'm not just calling random people racist or transphobic. I'm explaining why certain behaviours are racist or transphobic. You're free to disagree. Where's the issue?

The behaviours you are implying are racist or transphobic are nonsense - you are denigrating basic human attraction to some PC bull**** standard that you believe should be in play.

I don’t find Chinese girls attractive - is that a racist statement or one based on my own preference? Do give an answer please

CtevenSrowder

LLMMLL wrote: »

I can't really as I already have a strong belief about your opinions on trans people based on our multiple interactions. However I have answered that very question of other people on the thread so just go back and read through it.

You have prior for not answering difficult questions so the fact that you are weasling out again is of no surprise to me. Can you point me to a particular post were you answered such a question as I do not remember reading anything of the sort.

LLMMLL

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

That is a false equivalence. You are suggesting that one would randomly go up to a transwomen and state that they don't want to date them.

What is far more likely to be the case is a transwomen trying it on with a man and him saying he isn't interested in transwomen. That in your view is transphobic. If he keeps this view to himself and says 'I don't date women who are over 5'7' this in your view is perfectly acceptable even if it's a lie.

It doesn't make much sense. It's like suggesting that an employer who refuses to hire black people isn't being racist unless he explicitly states to the prospective applicants that they are not being hired because they are black.

So if he doesn't say that and instead says they aren't experienced enough then that is not racist, even if he knows himself the real reason is because they are black.

In my view that person is a racist regardless, you seemingly don't. But I guess I am strange in that way.

Definitely not what I believe. The employer is racist because it's easy to know when someone is being racist in hiring practices. The reason we choose to hire someone is completely different to why we are sexually attracted to someone.

The difference in sexual attraction is that nobody understands why they are attracted to what they're attracted to. So it's impossible to know if someone's sexual preferences are based on some racist stereotype (just for example) or some other reason.

briangriffin

LLMMLL wrote: »

There's a complete difference in how you've treated these women. The two you actually work with you've rejected them as individuals. The third is a hypothetical person that you want to pubkically tell everyone you're not interested in even though they dont actually exist. Are you as eager to go into other threads and tell everyone about these two women you work with are people you would never date?

Or is the whole point of your post to come into a thread debating trans rights and tell people you would never date a trans person?

So your sexual preferences are not what make someone trabsphobic. It's how they advertise them and why they choose to advertise them in those ways.

I wouldn't date the heavy woman because she's heavy, I wouldn't date any heavy woman I like skinny women im a skinny man.
I wouldn't date the other women because she's horrible I wouldn't date any woman I wasn't sexually attracted to and that can be based on personality or physical features.i wouldn't date a smoker thats personal preference. They could be lovely people.
My point is I'd work with anyone and I'd converse and be kind to them that doesn't mean I'm going to want to date or have sex with them and that is my preference, what you are saying is that its transphobic to say you would not date a trans woman, who may be a lovely person but does not have the the physical qualities ie a real fertile woman, a deal breaker for me.
The problem as I see is that you are trying to convince everyone that there is no difference between trans women and women and that me saying I wouldn't date a transwoman is transphobic because I don't know them and its complete and utter ballocks if you'll pardon the pun

I wonder if you realise that every time you widen the scope of racism entails, you lessen the impact of the phrase? You're watering down the words to the point where virtually everyone can be racist or transphobic. Ridiculous.

LLMMLL

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

You have prior for not answering difficult questions so the fact that you are weasling out again is of no surprise to me. Can you point me to a particular post were you answered such a question as I do not remember reading anything of the sort.

I can't remember the username but the guy who isn't into his overweight and mean colleagues.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wonder if you realise that every time you widen the scope of racism entails, you lessen the impact of the phrase? You're watering down the words to the point where virtually everyone can be racist or transphobic. Ridiculous.

Nope. I've said we can't know if someone is racist in their sexual preferences. We can know though by HOW and WHY they advertise those preferences.

Now the vast majority of people I know don't tell Asian people they're not into Asians etc. So I really don't see any widening of the application of the term racist.

CtevenSrowder

LLMMLL wrote: »

I can't remember the username but the guy who isn't into his overweight and mean colleagues.

Yes I remember this interaction I will go back and look. Though it would've been easier if you could've just answered me!

LLMMLL

briangriffin wrote: »

I wouldn't date the heavy woman because she's heavy, I wouldn't date any heavy woman I like skinny women im a skinny man.
I wouldn't date the other women because she's horrible I wouldn't date any woman I wasn't sexually attracted to and that can be based on personality or physical features.i wouldn't date a smoker thats personal preference. They could be lovely people.
My point is I'd work with anyone and I'd converse and be kind to them that doesn't mean I'm going to want to date or have sex with them and that is my preference, what you are saying is that its transphobic to say you would not date a trans woman, who may be a lovely person but does not have the the physical qualities ie a real fertile woman, a deal breaker for me.
The problem as I see is that you are trying to convince everyone that there is no difference between trans women and women and that me saying I wouldn't date a transwoman is transphobic because I don't know them and its complete and utter ballocks if you'll pardon the pun

Again I'm saying it's transphobic to advertise that you don't consider a trans woman a real.woman and worthy of your sexual attention in a thread about trans rights.

CtevenSrowder

LLMMLL wrote: »

Definitely not what I believe. The employer is racist because it's easy to know when someone is being racist in hiring practices. The reason we choose to hire someone is completely different to why we are sexually attracted to someone.

The difference in sexual attraction is that nobody understands why they are attracted to what they're attracted to. So it's impossible to know if someone's sexual preferences are based on some racist stereotype (just for example) or some other reason.

So are you suggesting people who aren't attracted to SE Asians, for example, are unconsciously racist?

And am I, someone who is not attracted to transwomen, unconsciously transphobic?

LLMMLL

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Yes I remember this interaction I will go back and look. Though it would've been easier if you could've just answered me!

You asked me if I considered you transphobic based on a new opinion you've stated. I didn't think that would be fair as I already have a strong opinion on this based on our previous discussions.

LLMMLL

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

So are you suggesting people who aren't attracted to SE Asians, for example, are unconsciously racist?

And am I, someone who is not attracted to transwomen, unconsciously transphobic?

I've VERY CLEARLY stated MULTIPLE TIMES that it is IMPOSSIBLE to know why people are or are not attracted to who they are attracted to.

jaxxx

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Yes I remember this interaction I will go back and look. Though it would've been easier if you could've just answered me!

CtevenSrowder

LLMMLL wrote: »

You asked me if I considered you transphobic based on a new opinion you've stated. I didn't think that would be fair as I already have a strong opinion on this based on our previous discussions.

OK I'll rephrase:

Is my friend Fintan transphobic because he (a straight male) does not want to sleep with transwomen?

raclle

LLMMLL wrote: »

Oh I'm happy to go back to discussing JK. It was not me who brought up this subthread. It was hatrickpatrick.

I hope you understand we're not all attacking you as I can only imagine what way this is all coming across to yourself but you've read first hand evidence of what some people have personally gone through and why this an important issue for them. Now in relation to JKR whatever her views or misinterpretations by some do you justify all the abuse/threats she is currently getting even if you are indeed correct in your assessment of her does she still deserve that?

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nope. I've said we can't know if someone is racist in their sexual preferences. We can know though by HOW and WHY they advertise those preferences.

No. Stating a persons preferences isn't racist, sexist, or transphobic. Refusing the advances of a Transperson because you don't want to be with a Trans person isn't transphobic either.

Stating horrible posts filled with bile, disgust and hatred would be transphobic.

Now the vast majority of people I know don't tell Asian people they're not into Asians etc. So I really don't see any widening of the application of the term racist.

Your previous claims of racism or transphobia based on someone stating their preferences,... that's widening the scope of racism. I like Asian women. It's not racist to say that. I'm generally not attracted to Black women. That's not racist either. I don't find Blue women attractive at all.. it's still not racist, because it doesn't affect how I behave with them, in terms of discrimination, speech, hatred, or violence.

jaxxx

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

OK I'll rephrase:

Is my friend Fintan transphobic because he (a straight male) does not want to sleep with transwomen?

Obviously.. .. ..

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

jaxxx wrote: »

Obviously.. .. ..

^^^^^

That headmelt.

CtevenSrowder

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nope. I've said we can't know if someone is racist in their sexual preferences. We can know though by HOW and WHY they advertise those preferences.

Now the vast majority of people I know don't tell Asian people they're not into Asians etc. So I really don't see any widening of the application of the term racist.

So we are back to telling the truth being racist/transphobic, lying being ok.

If a transwomen tries it on with my friend Fintan and he says 'sorry, I'm just not into transwomen', this is transphobic in your view, no?

But if he lies and says 'I'm just not into women over 5'7' this is perfectly acceptable and not transphobic?

Have I got it correct?

briangriffin

LLMMLL wrote: »

Again I'm saying it's transphobic to advertise that you don't consider a trans woman a real.woman and worthy of your sexual attention in a thread about trans rights.

Holy christ this is a thread about JK Rowling being cancelled because of TRAs just like you who tell people like just like me that lady dick is really a vagina that can give me everything that a "cis/real" woman can
What are you talking about advertising this is a discussion forum, I'm sure I'm not worthy of plenty of womens sexual attention for a whole host of reasons, thats just part of life I'm not going to force any of them to date me or say their are hetreophobic because they don't want to date me

Gervais08

If a lesbian refuses to sleep with that head the ball Alex Drummond (Google the headcase, he’s not right) they have been called transphobic.

The **** has all his man bits and a beard ffs - the only cursory changes to being “trans” is make up and longer hair. Ozzy Osbourne has done more!!

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Again I'm saying it's transphobic to advertise that you don't consider a trans woman a real.woman and worthy of your sexual attention in a thread about trans rights.

I don't consider a trans woman to be a real woman. Nor am I interested in having a sexual/romantic relationship with one. According to your beliefs, I'm transphobic.

I have trans female friends. Some of them I knew before their surgeries, and some I met after they'd done their transformations. I love them to bits. Fantastic people. I still don't consider them to be the same as a real woman, because they're not. And... neither do they. They know they're not the same as natural women. They're trans women. But, then, they're remarkably honest about who they are..

A natural woman grows up as a woman developing a personality that is directly connected to her gender, and experiences all the biological aspects of being a woman (periods, growing breasts, etc) throughout their life. That shapes a person, and society adds in a host of behavioral queues that contribute to what a woman is.

My trans friends had their changes done within the last five to ten years, but they grew up as males. They made their change as adult males... and not having experienced everything that a woman has to go through, and estimating how a woman behaved/thought from the outside looking in.

And so, they're not the same as "real" women. Which is why it's not transphobic not to be attracted, or interested in a physical/romantic relationship with them.

I really hate this pushing of trans issues on to people, because all you're doing is guaranteeing a serious pushback where people will become genuinely transphobic because you were too impatient to allow society to adapt naturally.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No. Stating a persons preferences isn't racist, sexist, or transphobic. Refusing the advances of a Transperson because you don't want to be with a Trans person isn't transphobic either.

Stating horrible posts filled with bile, disgust and hatred would be transphobic.



Your previous claims of racism or transphobia based on someone stating their preferences,... that's widening the scope of racism. I like Asian women. It's not racist to say that. I'm generally not attracted to Black women. That's not racist either. I don't find Blue women attractive at all.. it's still not racist, because it doesn't affect how I behave with them, in terms of discrimination, speech, hatred, or violence.

I don't believe it is widening the scope at all. As I said, the "sorry in not into Asians" stuff my friend experienced has gone from being ridiculously pervasive to very rare. Society has already moved on in this regard. Some people just need to catch up.

Gervais08

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't consider a trans woman to be a real woman. Nor am I interested in having a sexual/romantic relationship with one. According to your beliefs, I'm transphobic.

I have trans female friends. Some of them I knew before their surgeries, and some I met after they'd done their transformations. I love them to bits. Fantastic people. I still don't consider them to be the same as a real woman, because they're not. And... neither do they. They know they're not the same as natural women. They're trans women. But, then, they're remarkably honest about who they are..

A natural woman grows up as a woman developing a personality that is directly connected to her gender, and experiences all the biological aspects of being a woman (periods, growing breasts, etc) throughout their life. That shapes a person, and society adds in a host of behavioral queues that contribute to what a woman is.

My trans friends had their changes done within the last five to ten years, but they grew up as males. They made their change as adult males... and not having experienced everything that a woman has to go through, and estimating how a woman behaved/thought from the outside looking in.

And so, they're not the same as "real" women. Which is why it's not transphobic not to be attracted, or interested in a physical/romantic relationship with them.

I really hate this pushing of trans issues on to people, because all you're doing is guaranteeing a serious pushback where people will become genuinely transphobic because you were too impatient to allow society to adapt naturally.

Caitlin Jenner’s excellent series “I Am Cait” was fascinating and showed exactly that, her and the transwomen featured described themselves as just that. I’ve a friend who says “transsexual”.

It’s the idiots who put on eyeshadow and say they are “literally real women” who annoy the hell out of me - them and their delusional acolytes.

Not as much as sports cheats who compete as women and ruin it for actual women but close.

raclle

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't find Blue women attractive at all

Blue women???

I'm so out of the loop

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don't believe it is widening the scope at all. As I said, the "sorry in not into Asians" stuff my friend experienced has gone from being ridiculously pervasive to very rare. Society has already moved on in this regard. Some people just need to catch up.

Except, society hasn't moved on. Social media has. The rest of society is incredibly uncomfortable with this push to force people into compliance on Trans culture... although it would be helpful if the whole trans movement wasn't so vague and convoluted.

I live in Asia. I often hear from people that they're not into white guys. It's not racist. Just as a bisexual male, I often hear men tell me they're not interested in men. It's simply a personal preference. The people who get offended by that preference are the ones with problems.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except, society hasn't moved on. Social media has. The rest of society is incredibly uncomfortable with this push to force people into compliance on Trans culture... although it would be helpful if the whole trans movement wasn't so vague and convoluted.

I live in Asia. I often hear from people that they're not into white guys. It's not racist. Just as a bisexual male, I often hear men tell me they're not interested in men. It's simply a personal preference. The people who get offended by that preference are the ones with problems.

It definitely has moved on. References to life in China really have no bearing on this. I was clearly not talking about Chinese society. I think it's from your own posts that I've heard about the racism you experience in China so I'm not actually surprised that people dismiss you based on your race.

My friends experiences were not through social media so it's nothing to do with that either.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

It definitely has moved on. References to life in China really have no bearing on this. I was clearly not talking about Chinese society. I think it's from your own posts that I've heard about the racism you experience in China so I'm not actually surprised that people dismiss you based on your race.

Just like you're dismissing my examples, whereas yours are prime gold? Yeah. No surprise there. And I didn't say that my experiences were specific to China. I know trans people from various countries.

As for dismissing me based on my race, you completely missed my point.

My friends experiences were not through social media so it's nothing to do with that either.

Your friend does not make the world... just as you missed/deflected away from my point about society and social media.

B.A._Baracus

jaxxx wrote: »

Obviously.. .. ..

You can't win with a person like that.