J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

Justin Credible Darts

I remember one time I was arguing with a person and realized I was actually in the wrong, and the things I thought confirmed my stance were flawed.

I, as someone who always wants to learn, and not bitter or stubborn with an ego to keep on arguing for the sake of it, accepted the fact I could be completely wrong.
Any sensible person knows you dont take a side in an argument, debate or whatever and cherry pick the information that only suits your side, that is not what an intelligent person does, they absorb ALL the information, and then make their decision on that,

On here and sadly other threads, we have people who think they can simply disregard actual biology as if that has no bearing, they ignore stats, facts, and figures, and then not only claim to be harassed but try act like they have some moral high ground and they are somehow enlightened or progressive.

This would be hilarious , were it not for the fact these people are a dangerous element in society and driving so many others like them, where they think the can abuse people with derogatory slurs based on zero evidence.

Errashareesh

Aye, they're laughing at us. Yeah some people seem to think it makes them look bad if they admit they're wrong. Whereas it looks the exact opposite.

Gruffalux wrote: »

I KNOW transwomen are not women. They are transwomen.
You, on the other hand, BELIEVE that transwomen are women. This is an ideological stance, not empirical, and odd for a scientist.

But it looks good. All about optics.

Errashareesh

Dante7 wrote: »

The reason why TERF is considered an insult has been explained many times now. You have been asked by several people to stop using the term as they find it offensive, yet you persist. This is a community driven site and the community on this thread would appear to have spoken. Your continued use of this slur despite repeated requests to stop can now only be viewed as blatant, wilful misogyny and I think any further use of it should be reported and hopefully sanctioned. I won't be interacting with you any further as I refuse to entertain the ramblings of an unhinged misogynist.

Unhinged posts yes.

Misogynist - I don't think that's the case, but sadly falling into the trap of supporting views held by ardent misogynists.

LLMMLL

Dante7 wrote: »

The reason why TERF is considered an insult has been explained many times now. You have been asked by several people to stop using the term as they find it offensive, yet you persist. This is a community driven site and the community on this thread would appear to have spoken. Your continued use of this slur despite repeated requests to stop can now only be viewed as blatant, wilful misogyny and I think any further use of it should be reported and hopefully sanctioned. I won't be interacting with you any further as I refuse to entertain the ramblings of an unhinged misogynist.

So you object to the term TERF but are quite happy to throw around the term misogynist. Ok......

LLMMLL

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Aren’t you doing the very same thing though? You’re just using different criteria to categorise people into their various groups as you see fit.

When discussing women’s rights, men’s rights, the rights of people who are transgender, those are three distinct categories that each have their own peculiarities.

I wouldn’t categorise people who are transgender in the same group as people who are not transgender, which is what some TRA extremists are attempting to do - rather than acknowledge that they are not women, or they are not men, they argue that how men and women are defined should be based upon their criteria.

You must surely be able to see why people who do not share their ideology would disagree with their assertion? It’s entirely advantageous to them, and has a negative impact on people who do not share their ideology.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with my assertion. I will disagree with them and debate them though.

The issue (in this particular case) is not that people do.not agree with me that trans women are women. It is that they try to pretend that it's wrong on principle to acknowledge a subgroup of women while in the same breath being perfectly fine with other qualifiers such as black women, blonde women etc.

They should just be honest and restate that they don't believe trans women are women instead of nonsense arguments about how there can't be subgroups.

Vic_08

LLMMLL wrote: »

So you object to the term TERF but are quite happy to throw around the term misogynist. Ok......

And you are ignoring all the posts about actual issues to focus on silly namecalling because you have no answer to basic assertions such as transwomen are factually not women.

LLMMLL

Gervais08 wrote: »

Have you ever watched Bones ?

Based on books written by a real Forensic Anthropologist before anyone scoffs at a tv show.

Top quality scientific evidence.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

They should just be honest and restate that they don't believe trans women are women instead of nonsense arguments about how there can't be subgroups.

Surely that subgroup should be men who don't believe they men or male ,
Rather than women or female

LLMMLL

Vic_08 wrote: »

And you are ignoring all the posts about actual issues to focus on silly namecalling because you have no answer to basic assertions such as transwomen are factually not women.

Nope. In the last 2 pages alone I've addressed issues about whether subgroups are different to the overall group and the beliefs of campaigners on subgroups.

Wibbs

LLMMLL wrote: »

They should just be honest and restate that they don't believe trans women are women

I don't. Ditto for Trans men. They're Trans. Clear enough?

These are facts. I know facts can be triggering these days, but the facts remain, facts that can be proven by a basic physical exam or a genetics test and no amount of magical thinking or hastily drafted laws can change this.

LLMMLL

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't. Ditto for Trans men. They're Trans. Clear enough?

These are facts. I know facts can be triggering these days, but the facts remain, facts that can be proven by a basic physical exam or a genetics test and no amount of magical thinking or hastily drafted laws can change this.

I never thought you believed otherwise. But you weren't one of the people arguing that black women were being othered or that TRAs couldn't possibly believe that trabswomen are women because they acknowledged they are transwomen.

Vic_08

LLMMLL wrote: »

I have no problem with people disagreeing with my assertion. I will disagree with them and debate them though.

The issue (in this particular case) is not that people do.not agree with me that trans women are women. It is that they try to pretend that it's wrong on principle to acknowledge a subgroup of women while in the same breath being perfectly fine with other qualifiers such as black women, blonde women etc.

They should just be honest and restate that they don't believe trans women are women instead of nonsense arguments about how there can't be subgroups.

In order to be a part of a subgroup something must also be a part of the parent group.

Transwomen are not a subgroup to Women because the are NOT Women, they are however a subgroup to Men as they are in fact Men, altered men with a wish to project an appearance as Women but still a subgroup of Men.

Just because this is not what Trans people want to be or it upsets them to be it does not make their desires true.

JoannaJag

I don’t think TWAW.
I also think when you compare trans women to black women as sub categories of women it is outrageously rude and othering to black women.

TERF is a nasty and lazy slur used to avoid discussion. I don’t remember anyone campaigning to “stomp on a pro-lifer today” or “kill repealers” but “**** TERfS” and “kill terfs” seems to be acceptable. It’s pretty unpleasant rhetoric altogether.

LLMMLL

JoannaJag wrote: »

I don’t think TWAW.
I also think when you compare trans women to black women as sub categories of women it is outrageously rude and othering to black women.

TERF is a nasty and lazy slur used to avoid discussion. I don’t remember anyone campaigning to “stomp on a pro-lifer today” or “kill repealers” but “**** TERfS” and “kill terfs” seems to be acceptable. It’s pretty unpleasant rhetoric altogether.

Eh I think the issue there is maybe the "kill" part....

Justin Credible Darts

JoannaJag wrote: »

I don’t think TWAW.
I also think when you compare trans women to black women as sub categories of women it is outrageously rude and othering to black women.

TERF is a nasty and lazy slur used to avoid discussion. I don’t remember anyone campaigning to “stomp on a pro-lifer today” or “kill repealers” but “**** TERfS” and “kill terfs” seems to be acceptable. It’s pretty unpleasant rhetoric altogether.

comparing black women to to trans women
labeling people racists, transphobes, homophobes etc
having zero respect for real biological women.


this what these people do and then try to make out they are enlightened, progressive etc.


Were you , I or others to bandy about those same slurs, be as misogynistic or misandrous, etc, we would be carded or banned.


seems some people can continue to dish out vile derogatory insults to people who are simply stating biological facts.

JoannaJag

Yes, the violent language is the issue. It doesn’t get used and defended to the same extent for other political issues, in my experience. But when you put it next to TERF people seem to think oh well, I better not argue with that.

Look, you can argue that the acronym TERF is simply a descriptor for any woman who does not believe TWAW. And I can argue that “man” is simply a descriptor for anyone with a penis. But neither of us much like that do we? So, how to proceed....?

LLMMLL

JoannaJag wrote: »

Yes, the violent language is the issue. It doesn’t get used and defended to the same extent for other political issues, in my experience. But when you put it next to TERF people seem to think oh well, I better not argue with that.

Look, you can argue that the acronym TERF is simply a descriptor for any woman who does not believe TWAW. And I can argue that “man” is simply a descriptor for anyone with a penis. But neither of us much like that do we? So, how to proceed....?

You can proceed as you wish within the guidelines of the site. That's completely up to you.

I mean I'd be happy to give up using the term TERF if people on this thread were going to stop referring to transwomen as men.

We both know that ain't gonna happen.

Justin Credible Darts

LLMMLL wrote: »

You can proceed as you wish within the guidelines of the site. That's completely up to you.

I mean I'd be happy to give up using the term TERF if people on this thread were going to stop referring to transwomen as men.

We both know that ain't gonna happen.

are you seriously telling people on this forum to ignore science and biology and we must pretend a trans woman is not a man but a real woman.


it is not going to happen.

Parabellum9

LLMMLL wrote: »

You can proceed as you wish within the guidelines of the site. That's completely up to you.

I mean I'd be happy to give up using the term TERF if people on this thread were going to stop referring to transwomen as men.

We both know that ain't gonna happen.

TERF is a derogatory term against women, calling a “trans woman” a man is biologically correct and a fact - what part of this are you not getting?

JoannaJag

How about referring to trans women as trans women? Which I think most people are happy with? And perhaps you might consider using “gender critical” in place of terf?

One eyed Jack

LLMMLL wrote: »

I have no problem with people disagreeing with my assertion. I will disagree with them and debate them though.

The issue (in this particular case) is not that people do.not agree with me that trans women are women. It is that they try to pretend that it's wrong on principle to acknowledge a subgroup of women while in the same breath being perfectly fine with other qualifiers such as black women, blonde women etc.

They should just be honest and restate that they don't believe trans women are women instead of nonsense arguments about how there can't be subgroups.

Kinda lost me at this part to be honest as I don’t know now who you’re referring to. Men who are transgender are not a subgroup of women, it’s a pretence to pretend that they are. One can of course pretend that men who are transgender are a subgroup of women for the purposes of being polite, but that shouldn’t be taken as an indication that they regard men who are transgender as women in ALL circumstances.

Are you trying to suggest that there is an inherent hypocrisy in regarding a man who is transgender differently than a woman? Among women those qualifiers you mention are distinctions among women. There is no hypocrisy in being unwilling to pretend that a man is a woman, no matter what colour he dyes his hair.

I don’t think anyone was suggesting there can’t be subgroups of women, or subgroups of men. I think the point being made is that people don’t agree with your criteria. Even when it is acknowledged in Irish Law that people who are transgender are recognised in law as their preferred gender, the legislation is limited to very specific purposes, as opposed to applying in all circumstances like has been suggested by claiming that “the law says this”, etc.

This is why while the mantra “trans women are women” might be regarded at first glance as a benevolent idea, the implications of it are far from benevolent, and I would go so far as to say malevolent in nature given that it seeks to undermine how society regards both sexes.

LLMMLL

JoannaJag wrote: »

How about referring to trans women as trans women? Which I think most people are happy with? And perhaps you might consider using “gender critical” in place of terf?

I think as long as we both stay within the rules of the site there is no issue.

LLMMLL

Parabellum9 wrote: »

TERF is a derogatory term against women, calling a “trans woman” a man is biologically correct and a fact - what part of this are you not getting?

Men can be TERFs too. Don't know where you're getting this idea that it's aimed at women.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

I think as long as we both stay within the rules of the site there is no issue.

What a total cop out - are you really trying spoof people

Parabellum9

LLMMLL wrote: »

Men can be TERFs too. Don't know where you're getting this idea that it's aimed at women.

Nope, some men might deem themselves feminists but again I’d imagine that’s a particular subset. Your use of TERF is equivalent to people calling trans Trannys which nobody has done - it has no equivalence to refusing to call a trans woman a female, which they are not.

LLMMLL

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Kinda lost me at this part to be honest as I don’t know now who you’re referring to. Men who are transgender are not a subgroup of women, it’s a pretence to pretend that they are. One can of course pretend that men who are transgender are a subgroup of women for the purposes of being polite, but that shouldn’t be taken as an indication that they regard men who are transgender as women in ALL circumstances.

Are you trying to suggest that there is an inherent hypocrisy in regarding a man who is transgender differently than a woman? Among women those qualifiers you mention are distinctions among women. There is no hypocrisy in being unwilling to pretend that a man is a woman, no matter what colour he dyes his hair.

I don’t think anyone was suggesting there can’t be subgroups of women, or subgroups of men. I think the point being made is that people don’t agree with your criteria. Even when it is acknowledged in Irish Law that people who are transgender are recognised in law as their preferred gender, the legislation is limited to very specific purposes, as opposed to applying in all circumstances like has been suggested by claiming that “the law says this”, etc.

This is why while the mantra “trans women are women” might be regarded at first glance as a benevolent idea, the implications of it are far from benevolent, and I would go so far as to say malevolent in nature given that it seeks to undermine how society regards both sexes.

Trans women are a subgroup of women. Just as cis women are.

Of course I know you don't agree and that's absolutely your right.

Im just saying let's not pretend that if someone campaigns for trans women then they do not really believe that trans women are women. That's just silly.

Justin Credible Darts

LLMMLL wrote: »

Men can be TERFs too. Don't know where you're getting this idea that it's aimed at women.

so you admit to trying to insult BOTH men and women.


keep digging

Gervais08

LLMMLL wrote: »

You can proceed as you wish within the guidelines of the site. That's completely up to you.

I mean I'd be happy to give up using the term TERF if people on this thread were going to stop referring to transwomen as men.

We both know that ain't gonna happen.

The first is a cheap pathetic insult used to demean anyone who disagrees with you.

The latter is basic incontrovertible biological fact.

LLMMLL

Gatling wrote: »

What a total cop out - are you really trying spoof people

No. Are you? I'm saying the word TERF is totally fine.

I believe TERFs are not at all offended but are waging a PR campaign against the word as a smokescreen and to play the victim.

I am saying that I will operate fully with the rules of the site.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

Trans women are a subgroup of women. Just as cis women are.

No there not they are a subset of men because they men who decide they are women