J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

One eyed Jack

Dante7 wrote: »

Would you be happy for your daughter to have to share a changing room with any bloke who self-id'd as a woman?

I’d love to know why your point is here because to be honest I wouldn’t teach any child to be suspicious of anyone in the first place?

Do manners suddenly fcuk off out the window or do you not teach children it’s rude to stare at other people? In my experience adults tend to stare a lot more than children do. Children are curious because of their lack of experience, but an adult staring, what’s that about?

I wouldn’t be happy in the least if my child were such a small-minded tool that he didn’t understand the concept of variation in the human species. I would expect any adult bleating about science and biological realities to understand that much.

It’s a loaded question and you know it, because it’s predicated on the predjudiced presumption that males are perceived in your mind at least, as sexual predators. Not only is the presumption ignorant, it’s just daft.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Well the first is down to personal preference for the lesbian in question. The second is a simple matter of the athlete picking up the pace and the third is just a dogwhistle.

Such bullshit. And you know it. And if you don’t know it, science illiteracy is a bigger problem than I thought.

I’m not worried about the sports thing though. From what I can see, most people realise that only biological females should compete with biological females. It’s a blatant farce.

Dante7

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Well the first is down to personal preference for the lesbian in question. The second is a simple matter of the athlete picking up the pace and the third is just a dogwhistle.

1. No it's not just a simple matter of taste according to the rules. If you are a lesbian and you won't accept penises in your dating pool, you are a transphobe.
2. Female athletes just need to pick up the pace? Are you ****ing serious? The best female athletes in the world can't compete with schoolboys. How are they supposed to pick up the pace? With this single pronouncement you have just completely destroyed nearly all female sports, all so that some bloke in a dress can have a ****.
3. The third isn't a dogwhistle. There are already documented cases of predatory men using the trans loopholes to gain access to female only spaces. Give your head a wobble.

oyvey

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’d love to know why your point is here because to be honest I wouldn’t teach any child to be suspicious of anyone in the first place?

Do manners suddenly fcuk off out the window or do you not teach children it’s rude to stare at other people? In my experience adults tend to stare a lot more than children do. Children are curious because of their lack of experience, but an adult staring, what’s that about?

I wouldn’t be happy in the least if my child were such a small-minded tool that he didn’t understand the concept of variation in the human species. I would expect any adult bleating about science and biological realities to understand that much.

It’s a loaded question and you know it, because it’s predicated on the predjudiced presumption that males are perceived in your mind at least, as sexual predators. Not only is the presumption ignorant, it’s just daft.

To be fair it's not about manners. It's about being cognizant of your surroundings. If you don't teach your child that you're doing them a disservice. The world can be a dangerous place.

One eyed Jack

Dante7 wrote: »

3. The third isn't a dogwhistle. There are already documented cases of predatory men using the trans loopholes to gain access to female only spaces. Give your head a wobble.

So there are predatory men continuing to use any means at their disposal to abuse people? Well colour me shocked. It has nothing to do with the human rights of people who are transgender though. Dog whistling is all it is considering the vast majority of abuse is committed among family members known to the victim.

Gatling

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It has nothing to do with the human rights of people who are transgender though.

So we have reconised Human rights .

Why do men need extra women's rights

One eyed Jack

oyvey wrote: »

To be fair it's not about manners. It's about being cognizant of your surroundings. If you don't teach your child that you're doing them a disservice. The world can be a dangerous place.

These things aren’t exclusive of each other. People can teach their children to have manners and be cognisant of their surroundings, while instilling in them a sense of perspective, rather than filling their minds with crippling anxiety by telling them the world is a dangerous place and setting them up for a lifetime of mental health issues which will greatly impede their quality of life and act as a sort of confirmation bias for their perception that the world is indeed a dangerous place, so dangerous in fact that they must never leave their homes.

I take the opposite view - that not allowing children to discover the variety of cultures and people and philosophy, literature, science and technology, travel and explore the world and experience life outside of their own bubble, does children a disservice, which often is only reinforced as adults who stay within the perceived safety of their own echo chambers.

mohawk

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Transwomen are women. It's in the name. Tbh I don't see why we have to differentiate

Trans woman are equal to woman but they are not the exact same. For example I take a pill every day To prevent pregnancy. No trans woman can become pregnant or get diagnosed with ovarian or cervical cancer, don’t ever require hysterectomies etc. They may feel like women but there are distinct differences. Why can’t that be acknowledged?

One eyed Jack

Gatling wrote: »

So we have reconised Human rights .

Why do men need extra women's rights

They don’t need extra women’s rights?

They need recognition in human rights law because they experience discrimination in healthcare, education, family law, welfare and so on, all the areas where people who are not transgender generally take their rights for granted.

Woodsie1

mohawk wrote: »

Trans woman are equal to woman but they are not the exact same. For example I take a pill every day To prevent pregnancy. No trans woman can become pregnant or get diagnosed with ovarian or cervical cancer, don’t ever require hysterectomies etc. They may feel like women but there are distinct differences. Why can’t that be acknowledged?

You shouldnt need to explain that.
Transwomen arent women,end of story.

Shelga

Tomorrow's cover of the Sun: https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1271201178781712388?s=20

The abuse JK Rowling is receiving is utterly sickening.

oyvey

One eyed Jack wrote: »

These things aren’t exclusive of each other. People can teach their children to have manners and be cognisant of their surroundings, while instilling in them a sense of perspective, rather than filling their minds with crippling anxiety by telling them the world is a dangerous place and setting them up for a lifetime of mental health issues which will greatly impede their quality of life and act as a sort of confirmation bias for their perception that the world is indeed a dangerous place, so dangerous in fact that they must never leave their homes.

I take the opposite view - that not allowing children to discover the variety of cultures and people and philosophy, literature, science and technology, travel and explore the world and experience life outside of their own bubble, does children a disservice, which often is only reinforced as adults who stay within the perceived safety of their own echo chambers.

I said the world can be dangerous. Nobody is talking about crippling people with fear. From the question "Would you be happy for your daughter to have to share a changing room with any bloke who self-id'd as a woman?" you've completely fabricated a situation where the daughter is staring, and is crippled with anxiety and will have mental health issues. Settle down.

y0ssar1an22

1st of all, bodily autonomy, do what you want once you're a consenting adult and no one gets harmed. thats my starting point.

anyway, was watching a psychiatrist give an interview earlier. it was said that if you ID as an amputee and want to get a limb removed, no surgeon (in the developed world) would ever consider that and refer you (pretty quickly) to a psychiatrist.

people who support trans, would you support that?

i've not directed this question at trans folk, cos i think you guys are inherently biased on this topic.

Gatling

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They don’t need extra women’s rights?

They need recognition in human rights law because they experience discrimination in healthcare, education, family law, welfare

In what way are they discriminated against in healthcare , education and family exactly.

They have full access to medical care , unfortunately a man isn't going to find a gynecologist any good to him , two words ,smear test and speclum .
They still have full access to education and to be educated 2nd level ,3rd level like everyone else.
In what way are they discriminated in family law ?

ceadaoin.

Shelga wrote: »

Tomorrow's cover of the Sun: https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1271201178781712388?s=20

The abuse JK Rowling is receiving is utterly sickening.

They should put the screenshots of all the activists telling her to go suck/choke on a dick on the front page too. Or even on any page. I think that would truly shock a lot of people who dont realise the extent of how women who speak out on this issue are abused.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Shelga wrote: »

Tomorrow's cover of the Sun: https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1271201178781712388?s=20

The abuse JK Rowling is receiving is utterly sickening.

In a way, I’m glad more light is being shone on all this, as sickening as it is.

One eyed Jack

oyvey wrote: »

I said the world can be dangerous. Nobody is talking about crippling people with fear. From the question "Would you be happy for your daughter to have to share a changing room with any bloke who self-id'd as a woman?" you've completely fabricated a situation where the daughter is staring, and is crippled with anxiety and will have mental health issues. Settle down.

I know you said the world can be a dangerous place, I was making the point that the world can also be a wonderful place.

Of course people were talking about crippling people with fear because that’s precisely where the question comes from - a fear that males are inherently predatory and will abuse females at the first opportunity, using equality legislation to do so. The legislation makes no difference to the number of victims either male or female targeted by sexual predators of either sex.

The question is predicated on the scenario of a child sharing a changing room with an adult male. I can tell you now for a fact that my own father never had an issue with bringing all of his children into the changing room when we were going swimming, and the only issue I’ve ever had was a chap shaving his balls in the sink, because that’s just fcuking rank.

Not once have I ever thought of other men there that they were interested in my child, nor was I interested in theirs. Both myself and my child, and most people, are perfectly capable of minding our own business. I don’t remember anyone staring because I wasn’t looking around to see who was staring.

I didn’t fabricate the scenario of the daughter feeling intimidated btw, I assumed from the suggestion that she felt intimidated by her suspicion that another person was not a woman, that she would have had to have been looking long enough to make that determination. Most people would generally refer to it as staring, and it’s simply rude, and bad manners to do so.

So not only is the child staring, but the person is then further humiliated if they do not conform to the child’s perception of what a woman should look like, and it’s somehow acceptable to do that to another person? If the child has only ever seen white people like herself and the person is black, is it ok to tell the person they have to leave because they’re making the other person’s child uncomfortable?

Woodsie1

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I know you said the world can be a dangerous place, I was making the point that the world can also be a wonderful place.

Of course people were talking about crippling people with fear because that’s precisely where the question comes from - a fear that males are inherently predatory and will abuse females at the first opportunity, using equality legislation to do so. The legislation makes no difference to the number of victims either male or female targeted by sexual predators of either sex.

The question is predicated on the scenario of a child sharing a changing room with an adult male. I can tell you now for a fact that my own father never had an issue with bringing all of his children into the changing room when we were going swimming, and the only issue I’ve ever had was a chap shaving his balls in the sink, because that’s just fcuking rank.

Not once have I ever thought of other men there that they were interested in my child, nor was I interested in theirs. Both myself and my child, and most people, are perfectly capable of minding our own business. I don’t remember anyone staring because I wasn’t looking around to see who was staring.

I didn’t fabricate the scenario of the daughter feeling intimidated btw, I assumed from the suggestion that she felt intimidated by her suspicion that another person was not a woman, that she would have had to have been looking long enough to make that determination. Most people would generally refer to it as staring, and it’s simply rude, and bad manners to do so.

So not only is the child staring, but the person is then further humiliated if they do not conform to the child’s perception of what a woman should look like, and it’s somehow acceptable to do that to another person? If the child has only ever seen white people like herself and the person is black, is it ok to tell the person they have to leave because they’re making the other person’s child uncomfortable?

Whatever point youre trying to make could me made in a few words...It seems youre trying to muddy the waters by spouting absolute nonsense so when your called out youve something to fall back on.

To be honest its gotten pretty old at this stage and I imagine a great many posters arent paying attention to the majority of fluff you pad out your opinions with,

One eyed Jack

Gatling wrote: »

In what way are they discriminated against in healthcare , education and family exactly.

They have full access to medical care , unfortunately a man isn't going to find a gynecologist any good to him , two words ,smear test and speclum .
They still have full access to education and to be educated 2nd level ,3rd level like everyone else.
In what way are they discriminated in family law ?

They do not have full access to medical care as the medical care they require simply isn’t very well funded for a start, and there is a dearth of information among medical professionals as to how to treat patients who are transgender. The same is true of education and family law.

This isn’t simply about smear tests and speculums and prostate exams or any of the rest of it, they have specific medical and mental health needs that require treatment, which are poorly provided for under the current systems in Ireland.

They are discriminated against in family law because again due to people’s prejudices regarding people who are transgender it is determined that in many cases it is not in the children’s best interests to allow their parents access. An example of one case in the UK is this one -


Transgender woman denied contact with her ultra-Orthodox Jewish children


Like I said earlier, because people take the rights they have for granted, it only becomes an issue when they realise the rights they don’t have, like the perceived right to harass anyone on the basis that they aren’t sure about the persons sex.

TallyRand

One eyed Jack wrote: »

An idiot.

And that would be after my eye was done rolling back in it’s socket.

You have a dangerous and sick mindset

For me, You have captured the “it’s all gone too far now” with that one simple answer, no well adjusted person could think and answer like that

Smacruairi

Jack, do you work? You've been writing long winded essays for the past 2 days on this thread. Like every 30mins you've 4 paragraphs (where several words would have done) and just keep repeating the same point ad nauseam.

To paraphrase a previous poster, if a transwoman has all the biology of a man, why would you insist to biological women that they have to call them a full biological woman? I can understand you would treat your friend Brian who wanted to be called Sarah as a woman if they wanted, that's just respect and being polite, but if they started talking about menstrual pains and ovarian issues you would tell them to get a grip and not to make fun of biological women, surely!

The Floyd p

It appears that a lot of people on boards aren't ready to have a sincere conversation about trans rights (which are just human rights) and so jump on the likes of sporting competitions instead to muddy the waters.

The simple fact of the matter is that there are millions of people who struggle with their identity, and who have very little legal and social protection from abuses, or just from uncomfortable situations that are taken for granted by people who never have to experience them. The use of a bathroom may sound trivial, but coming from someone who hasn't ever considered it, that speaks to the issue at hand.

Affording people who are going through such transitions and personal struggles compassion does not take away from your rights or ultimately, your existence. The backlash seems more rooted in the cynicism that's taken hold in Irish society. It can be seen against POC speaking out about their personal experiences of racism, the Direct Provision system and how it's painted as a holiday resort etc. This is just another way for some people to express a want to put others down.

Woodsie1

The Floyd p wrote: »

It appears that a lot of people on boards aren't ready to have a sincere conversation about trans rights (which are just human rights) and so jump on the likes of sporting competitions instead to muddy the waters.

The simple fact of the matter is that there are millions of people who struggle with their identity, and who have very little legal and social protection from abuses, or just from uncomfortable situations that are taken for granted by people who never have to experience them. The use of a bathroom may sound trivial, but coming from someone who hasn't ever considered it, that speaks to the issue at hand.

Affording people who are going through such transitions and personal struggles compassion does not take away from your rights or ultimately, your existence. The backlash seems more rooted in the cynicism that's taken hold in Irish society. It can be seen against POC speaking out about their personal experiences of racism, the Direct Provision system and how it's painted as a holiday resort etc. This is just another way for some people to express a want to put others down.

You sound like a man telling women what to do...theres a name for people like that.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

The Floyd p wrote: »

It appears that a lot of people on boards aren't ready to have a sincere conversation about trans rights (which are just human rights) and so jump on the likes of sporting competitions instead to muddy the waters.

Empty sloganeering. Name the human rights that transgender people don’t have? If you want to continue using that inane slogan though, well I guess sex-based rights are also human rights. And some of those sex-based rights conflict with transgender rights.

One eyed Jack

Smacruairi wrote: »

Jack, do you work? You've been writing long winded essays for the past 2 days on this thread. Like every 30mins you've 4 paragraphs (where several words would have done) and just keep repeating the same point ad nauseam.

Seeing as you weren’t being a dick in asking the question, I do work. It’s not only women who can multi-task y’know :pac:

Smacruairi wrote: »

To paraphrase a previous poster, if a transwoman has all the biology of a man, why would you insist to biological women that they have to call them a full biological woman? I can understand you would treat your friend Brian who wanted to be called Sarah as a woman if they wanted, that's just respect and being polite, but if they started talking about menstrual pains and ovarian issues you would tell them to get a grip and not to make fun of biological women, surely!

You’ll have to point out to me where you ever got the impression or where I gave any indication I would do any such thing. I will admit I have repeatedly pointed out that people are free to refer to whatever they want, however they want, and other people are powerless to stop them. That standard applies to anyone, regardless of the amount of people who demand that other people conform to their world view.

I have also made the point that if anyone were to attempt to inform me about their biological functions, I would simply tell them I don’t wish to know anything about their biological functions. If they continued to press on about their biological functions in spite of being told to stop, then they are neither being respectful or polite and will likely be told they’re being an asshole. Their efforts at that point constitute harassment.

y0ssar1an22

The Floyd p wrote: »

It appears that a lot of people on boards aren't ready to have a sincere conversation about trans rights (which are just human rights) and so jump on the likes of sporting competitions instead to muddy the waters.

The simple fact of the matter is that there are millions of people who struggle with their identity, and who have very little legal and social protection from abuses, or just from uncomfortable situations that are taken for granted by people who never have to experience them. The use of a bathroom may sound trivial, but coming from someone who hasn't ever considered it, that speaks to the issue at hand.

Affording people who are going through such transitions and personal struggles compassion does not take away from your rights or ultimately, your existence. The backlash seems more rooted in the cynicism that's taken hold in Irish society. It can be seen against POC speaking out about their personal experiences of racism, the Direct Provision system and how it's painted as a holiday resort etc. This is just another way for some people to express a want to put others down.

i agree with all that. essentially, do what you want.

there is an argument to be made about certain sports. archery/clay pigeon shooting; it dont matter a damn.

just from uncomfortable situations that are taken for granted by people who never have to experience them: can you acknowledge that the same could go for a girls dressing room?

ah come one!! no one gives a **** really if your straight/bi/trans/whatever.

thats the reason i have really bad anxiety! in my head i thinking "what are they thinking of me". i

at the end of the day, people dont give a $hit.

be gay/bi/straight' no one really cares

TuringBot47

The Floyd p wrote: »

It appears that a lot of people on boards aren't ready to have a sincere conversation about trans rights (which are just human rights) and so jump on the likes of sporting competitions instead to muddy the waters.

You have the right to fantasize about your body but should not expect to be treated 100% like the opposite sex.

I can't self identify as a woman and sue for discrimination if I don't get a job in M&S as a bra fitter.

Woodsie1

TuringBot47 wrote: »

You have the right to fantasize about your body but should not expect to be treated 100% like the opposite sex.

I can't self identify as a woman and sue for discrimination if I don't get a job in M&S as a bra fitter.

Are you sure you cant?
Strangers things have already happened

Gatling

The Floyd p wrote: »

It appears that a lot of people on boards aren't ready to have a sincere conversation about trans rights (which are just human rights) and so jump on the likes of sporting competitions instead to muddy the waters.

The simple fact of the matter is that there are millions of people who struggle with their identity, and who have very little legal

The use of a bathroom may sound trivial, but coming from someone who hasn't ever considered it, that speaks to the issue at hand.

They have the same legai protections as everyone other person ,they have access to medical and mental health which is ****e for most part in this country ,
The whole bathroom is the stupidest argument ever you go pee or take a dump, what's the difference between men's and ladies one has traditional gender neutral toilet and a bin beside it for sanitary towels , tampons,
A sink and soap ,
The other has the exact same gender neutral toilet ,no sanitary bins ,and some gender specific urinals women can equally take a pee standing up , awkward but possible not sure whether a urinal would suit women full stop,
It's quick easy for a man .
A sink and soap

So there is litterally little difference no matter what you feel,


It seems the main issue is mental health being led to believe that they are trans by people putting pressure on them to be trans or coming out as trans to hide their sexualitiy according to an article posted ,


I wouldn't bother trying to equate dp and economic migrancy to any thing being discussed in this thread ,

Woodsie1

Gatling wrote: »

It seems the main issue is mental health being led to believe that they are trans by people putting pressure on them to be trans or coming out as trans to hide their sexualitiy according to an article posted ,

Not so much the adults but the children,children who arent allowed to smoke,drink,gamble or vote are being allowed to permanetly change their bodies and if anyone has any objections are subject to the same abuse JK Rowling has gotten.