J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

Gruffalux

There are other issues. When I go to the gynaecologist I ask to see the lady doctor on duty. This is because it is additionally stressful to me to have a male doctor I do not know put his fingers in my vagina. I have had a very bad experience with a male gynae long ago - an absolute bastard. I noticed last time I was there that 2 ladies in hijab also requested to see the lady gynaecologist. So we waited slightly longer in the queues. Now if a male gynaecologist identifies as a woman what grounds do I and the two other ladies have if transwomen ARE women?

JimmyVik

conorhal wrote: »

So unless you're loudly and proudly proclaiming the received wisdom of the Twitterati's 'Newspeak', like a North Korean on Dear Leader's birthday, your failure to clap along will be noted (just see: Every Harry Potter actor ever denouncing Rowling's wrongthink.)

Nail on head right there.
Thats the best analogy ive read yet.

JoannaJag

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

But the thing transgender women have in their favour is male strength if they are attacked. Women don’t have that if attacked by a male bodied person. That vulnerability has been recognised in law but now apparently is just being disregarded by TWAW absolutists.

That’s true but in defense of transwomen, if they have the noise and the money and the will to campaign for a safe place thats ok with me - just don’t invade the space that has already been carved out for another vulnerable group with their own concerns. Especially when the “Trans Women are Women” cry means any penis wielder can call himself a trans woman as there is no observable difference between transwomen and men.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

JoannaJag wrote: »

That’s true but in defense of transwomen, if they have the noise and the money and the will to campaign for a safe place thats ok with me - just don’t invade the space that has already been carved out for another vulnerable group with their own concerns. Especially when the “Trans Women are Women” cry means any penis wielder can call himself a trans woman as there is no observable difference between transwomen and men.

I’m all for a safe space too. I wonder would a third space be objected to? And if so, why?

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Probably has been responded to but had to hit reply before I read the rest of the thread.

I assume you are not a parent jack. I at least hope you aren't with that mindset.

You wouldn't teach a child to be suspicious of anyone?

Your child would be a "small minded tool" if he didn't understand the concept of variation in the human species yet you want to teach "him" that variation is meaningless as it's all up to the individual?

You've jumped the shark mate.

I am a parent as it happens, and no, I wouldn’t teach any child to be suspicious of anyone. I already explained why not, because it instils a mindset which can lead to crippling anxiety and mental health issues, more commonly referred to as extreme paranoia and neuroticism.

I’ve never taught him that variation is meaningless, I’ve taught him the complete opposite - variation is absolutely fundamental to understanding that people come in all sorts of various shapes, sorts and sizes with all sorts of mindsets, and to understand and appreciate for example that a person with missing limbs is still human, even though they do not display characteristics or physical attributes or their appearance differs from traits commonly associated with humans - two arms, two legs, that sort of thing. Missing these attributes often makes other people uncomfortable, but that doesn’t mean the person is any less human or unworthy of being treated with dignity and respect.

That’s not jumping the shark at all, it’s basically teaching him the value of understanding that he should treat people as he would want people to treat him, and understanding that just because he has the capacity to humiliate other people, nothing gives him the right to do so, but rather he has a responsibility both to himself and to other people to exercise his capacity to enable other people to have the same opportunities and rights founded on dignity and respect as he has, and should he ever violate those principles, then he should expect to be deprived of his liberty.

Basic stuff really.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Gruffalox wrote: »

There are other issues. When I go to the gynaecologist I ask to see the lady doctor on duty. This is because it is additionally stressful to me to have a male doctor I do not know put his fingers in my vagina. I have had a very bad experience with a male gynae long ago - an absolute bastard. I noticed last time I was there that 2 ladies in hijab also requested to see the lady gynaecologist. So we waited slightly longer in the queues. Now if a male gynaecologist identifies as a woman what grounds do I and the two other ladies have if transwomen ARE women?

Absolutely. Now, for me personally, I don’t mind what the sex the doctor who examines me is. I have Crohn’s disease and got used to showing me hole to various doctors. :pac: But some women only want their cervix and breast lumps examined by biological women and some men only want that testicle lump or their prostate examined by a biological male.

I’ve said it before that I believe support for transgender rights seems to come from a good and kind place for most people but I really think a lot of people haven’t thought it through fully.

Gruffalux

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Absolutely. Now, for me personally, I don’t mind what the sex the doctor who examines me is. I have Crohn’s disease and got used to showing me hole to various doctors. :pac: But some women only want their cervix and breast lumps examined by biological women and some men only want that testicle lump or their prostate examined by a biological male.

I’ve said it before that I believe support for transgender rights seems to come from a good and kind place for most people but I really think a lot of people haven’t thought it through fully.

Haha I know what you mean. Funny enough I recently had to have some nether parts examined by a male doctor. It was embarrassing but we got through it. But as a quite young girl who had never had sex a male doctor forcefully and against my will inserted a speculum in my vagina and I will not deal with male gynaecologists because it is very traumatic for me. I do not think these men on here who repeat so blithely that transwomen are women know how they àre potentially affected girls and women very badly.

FVP3

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I am a parent as it happens, and no, I wouldn’t teach any child to be suspicious of anyone. I already explained why not, because it instils a mindset which can lead to crippling anxiety and mental health issues, more commonly referred to as extreme paranoia and neuroticism.

I’ve never taught him that variation is meaningless, I’ve taught him the complete opposite - variation is absolutely fundamental to understanding that people come in all sorts of various shapes, sorts and sizes with all sorts of mindsets, and to understand and appreciate for example that a person with missing limbs is still human, even though they do not display characteristics or physical attributes or their appearance differs from traits commonly associated with humans - two arms, two legs, that sort of thing. Missing these attributes often makes other people uncomfortable, but that doesn’t mean the person is any less human or unworthy of being treated with dignity and respect.

That’s not jumping the shark at all, it’s basically teaching him the value of understanding that he should treat people as he would want people to treat him, and understanding that just because he has the capacity to humiliate other people, nothing gives him the right to do so, but rather he has a responsibility both to himself and to other people to exercise his capacity to enable other people to have the same opportunities and rights founded on dignity and respect as he has, and should he ever violate those principles, then he should expect to be deprived of his liberty.

Basic stuff really.

90% of your posts are self aggrandising virtue signalling. 100% lack any logic.

To me though, to adopt another politically correct term, you are a clear mansplainer. Plenty of women on here are giving examples of areas where they would like to be treated, to play sports with, or be naked in front of, other biological women and rather than accept that and slink off you dare lecture them about bigotry.

Look, perhaps, closer to home for bigotry.

Gruffalux

FVP3 wrote: »

90% of your posts are self aggrandising virtue signalling. 100% lack any logic.

To me though, to adopt another politically correct term, you are a clear mansplainer. Plenty of women on here are giving examples of areas where they would like to be treated, to play sports with, or be naked in front of, other biological women and rather than accept that and slink off you dare lecture them about bigotry.

Look, perhaps, closer to home for bigotry.

Thanks. I appreciate your posts on this subject.

Wombatman

Gruffalox wrote: »

Haha I know what you mean. Funny enough I recently had to have some nether parts examined by a male doctor. It was embarrassing but we got through it. But as a quite young girl who had never had sex a male doctor forcefully and against my will inserted a speculum in my vagina and I will not deal with male gynaecologists because it is very traumatic for me. I do not think these men on here who repeat so blithely that transwomen are women know how they àre potentially affected girls and women very badly.

So if a female gynaecologist had done the same, would you be going exclusively to males now? How do you know these people are males or females?

JoannaJag

Wombatman wrote: »

So if a female gynaecologist had done the same, would you be going exclusively to males now? How do you know these people are males or females?

We know.

Gruffalux

Wombatman wrote: »

So if a female gynaecologist had done the same, would you be going exclusively to males now? How do you know these people are males or females?

Yeah. If I had been raped as a young teen by a female gynaecologist with a metal speculum I would probably have difficulty with gynaecologist situations in general. Thankfully my female gynae is excellent and understands the situation - she has come across plenty of women who for very many different reasons do not want internals from male gynaes.
I don't think people who whatabout on such issues realise how callous and nasty they truly are.

Wombatman

Gruffalox wrote: »

Yeah. If I had been raped as a young teen by a female gynaecologist with a metal speculum I would probably have difficulty with gynaecologist situations in general. Thankfully my female gynae is excellent and understands the situation - she has come across plenty of women who for very many different reasons do not want internals from male gynaes.
I don't think people who whatabout on such issues realise how callous and nasty they truly are.

It's not a what-about, just a logical extension of the point you made. I see you are offended and don't take kindly to my line of argument. Consider me 'cancelled' so.

I won't go on about the female trades-person who made a hash of my patio or the black taxi driver who go lost. Never again eh?

Ever ask yourself why Rowling is tweeting about pretend women entering women's only spaces. Clearly not a widespread problem but very high on JK's agenda for some reason. What might her motives be I wonder? Oh, yeah, its to protect women from the pervasive menace of 'predatory' men pretending to be women right?

One eyed Jack

FVP3 wrote: »

90% of your posts are self aggrandising virtue signalling. 100% lack any logic.

To me though, to adopt another politically correct term, you are a clear mansplainer. Plenty of women on here are giving examples of areas where they would like to be treated, to play sports with, or be naked in front of, other biological women and rather than accept that and slink off you dare lecture them about bigotry.

Look, perhaps, closer to home for bigotry.

Accusations of self-aggrandising virtue signalling from a poster who accuses another poster of ‘mansplaining’ and claims I lectured anyone about bigotry? It appears we simply have a very different understanding of logical argument. I’m more concerned with refuting the central point than taking cheap pot-shots at people for thanks, but you do you I guess.

For what it’s worth, the quip about my having big balls was an allusion to a common metaphor to describe someone who has the temerity to question diktats rather than as you suggest accept what they’re being told.

Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the metaphor, more likely we simply have a different sense of humour. Normally under those circumstances I would recommend the person who takes offence where none was intended that they should see a proctologist to have the stick removed, but on Boards the general principles of don’t be a dick, and attack the post, not the poster, are the standards by which everyone must abide.

Wombatman

JoannaJag wrote: »

We know.

Is it the high heels or maybe the slender fingers? Go on, tell me. Don't 'exclude' me just because I have testicles.

JoannaJag

Wombatman wrote: »

Is it the high heels or maybe the slender fingers? Go on, tell me. Don't 'exclude' me just because I have testicles.

I get the impression your question is not in good faith, but I’ll answer it in good faith, just in case Im misreading your manly identity:

https://www.livescience.com/33513-men-vs-women-our-physical-differences-explained.html

Gruffalux

Wombatman wrote: »

It's not a what-about, just a logical extension of the point you made. I see you are offended and don't take kindly to my line of argument. Consider me 'cancelled' so.

I won't go on about the female trades-person who made a hash of my patio or the black taxi driver who go lost. Never again eh?

Ever ask yourself why Rowling is tweeting about pretend women entering women's only spaces. Clearly not a widespread problem but very high on JK's agenda for some reason. What might her motives be I wonder? Oh, yeah, its to protect women from the pervasive menace of 'predatory' men pretending to be women right?

Sorry. I cannot understand your sentences or their relationship at all to the issue.

What should I or the two ladies in the hijabs do if a male bodied gynaecologist says to us he is a woman and if that is backed up as a reality by law and public policy? What is our recourse for medical attention in that space and time? Will we be sued for misgendering?
Just facts now on reply. The blood and guts of reality. No cerebral ideological bullsh1t or false equivalence. No evasion like when I asked if people like you, Jack or Zeb make any distinction between male bodied transwomen and women when it comes to sex and intimate relationship since according to you TW ARE W. Just stand in the visceral intimate places where the rubber meets the road and tell the truth.

Wombatman

Gruffalox wrote: »

Sorry. I cannot understand your sentences or their relationship at all to the issue.

What should I or the two ladies in the hijabs do if a male bodied gynaecologist says to us he is a woman and if that is backed up as a reality by law and public policy? What is our recourse for medical attention in that space and time? Will we be sued for misgendering?
Just facts now on reply. The blood and guts of reality. No cerebral ideological bullsh1t or false equivalence. No evasion like when I asked if people like you, Jack or Zeb make any distinction between male bodied transwomen and women when it comes to sex and intimate relationship since according to you TW ARE W. Just stand in the visceral intimate places where the rubber meets the road and tell the truth.

I'm not sure I can do much about your inability to understand, other than to encourage you to try harder.

Just to be clear, which holes are no go areas for males who you wish to help you with a medical issue. Mouth, ear holes, butt hole, vagina, nostrils?

How do you know these "2 ladies in hijabs" requested to see a female doctor BTW? Did they have a two for the price of one deal on or something? I'd be leaving that practice due to data privacy concerns rather than the likelihood of medical malpractice because of a doctors sex.

Wombatman

Gruffalox wrote: »

Sorry. I cannot understand your sentences or their relationship at all to the issue.

What should I or the two ladies in the hijabs do if a male bodied gynaecologist says to us he is a woman and if that is backed up as a reality by law and public policy? What is our recourse for medical attention in that space and time? Will we be sued for misgendering?
Just facts now on reply. The blood and guts of reality. No cerebral ideological bullsh1t or false equivalence. No evasion like when I asked if people like you, Jack or Zeb make any distinction between male bodied transwomen and women when it comes to sex and intimate relationship since according to you TW ARE W. Just stand in the visceral intimate places where the rubber meets the road and tell the truth.

How did I get into a pigeon hole with Jack and Zeb? Describe the characteristics of people like us?

Gruffalux

Wombatman wrote: »

I'm not sure I can do much about your inability to understand, other than to encourage you to try harder.

Just to be clear, which holes are no go areas for males who you wish to help you with a medical issue. Mouth, ear holes, butt hole, vagina, nostrils?

How do you know these "2 ladies in hijabs" requested to see a female doctor BTW? Did they have a two for the price of one deal on or something? I'd be leaving that practice due to data privacy concerns rather than the likelihood of medical malpractice because of a doctors sex.

We wait together in the waiting room. When the male doc comes and calls their name they say I will see the lady doctor. He moves on. It is quite common.

To answer your question - vagina.
Now answer mine, which pertains also to holes and off limits - would you have sex with a male bodied transwoman or settle down in a relationship? Or if gay, would you have sex with a female bodied transman? Your silence as they say will be held against you.

Gruffalux

Wombatman wrote: »

How did I get into a pigeon hole with Jack and Zeb? Describe the characteristics of people like us?

People who repeat Transwomen are women. And transmen are men. That is the category and characteristic.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Wombatman wrote: »

It's not a what-about, just a logical extension of the point you made. I see you are offended and don't take kindly to my line of argument. Consider me 'cancelled' so.

I won't go on about the female trades-person who made a hash of my patio or the black taxi driver who go lost. Never again eh?

Ever ask yourself why Rowling is tweeting about pretend women entering women's only spaces. Clearly not a widespread problem but very high on JK's agenda for some reason. What might her motives be I wonder? Oh, yeah, its to protect women from the pervasive menace of 'predatory' men pretending to be women right?

If the female tradesperson or black taxi driver were sticking their hands into your intimate places, either things took a bizarre turn or you actually stumbled onto the set of a porno.

2u2me

Gruffalox wrote: »

https://twitter.com/OkBiology/status/1271119443465207808?s=19

When did it become compelled pronouns instead of preferred pronouns? I missed that. I don't like the idea of being compelled into anything.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

2u2me wrote: »

When did it become compelled pronouns instead of preferred pronouns? I missed that. I don't like the idea of being compelled into anything.

Well, the nurse was asked to leave. So ‘preferred’ isn’t really the right word in those circumstances.

y0ssar1an22

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

1st of all, bodily autonomy, do what you want once you're a consenting adult and no one gets harmed. thats my starting point.

anyway, was watching a psychiatrist give an interview earlier. it was said that if you ID as an amputee and want to get a limb removed, no surgeon (in the developed world) would ever consider that and refer you (pretty quickly) to a psychiatrist.

people who support trans, would you support that?

i've not directed this question at trans folk, cos i think you guys are inherently biased on this topic.

I'll repost this and hope someone can answer.

Gruffalux

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

If the female tradesperson or black taxi driver were sticking their hands into your intimate places, either things took a bizarre turn or you actually stumbled onto the set of a porno.

seamus

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Well, the nurse was asked to leave. So ‘preferred’ isn’t really the right word in those circumstances.

The story says the exact opposite, that the nurse excused herself and left because she wasn't happy.

Wombatman

Gruffalox wrote: »

We wait together in the waiting room. When the male doc comes and calls their name they say I will see the lady doctor. He moves on. It is quite common.

To answer your question - vagina.
Now answer mine, which pertains also to holes and off limits - would you have sex with a male bodied transwoman or settle down in a relationship? Or if gay, would you have sex with a female bodied transman? Your silence as they say will be held against you.

What do you mean by sex? Would I suck their toes, enjoy them rimming me, would glory holes be involved, manual stimulation, communal masturbation? What parts are being kissed, licked, sucked, penetrated, stimulated.....?

What difference does it make to anything what answer I give to your question? Really??

You seem confused about biological sex, sexual orientation, eroticism and gender identity my dear. Maybe you are hoping to place restrictions on others to fit in with your restricted mindset.

JoannaJag

I think that’s a no

seamus

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

1st of all, bodily autonomy, do what you want once you're a consenting adult and no one gets harmed. thats my starting point.

anyway, was watching a psychiatrist give an interview earlier. it was said that if you ID as an amputee and want to get a limb removed, no surgeon (in the developed world) would ever consider that and refer you (pretty quickly) to a psychiatrist.

people who support trans, would you support that?

Yes, if such a course of action was deemed to result in the best outcome for the individual.

Having all of one's limbs intact doesn't automatically mean that the individual is better off.

To make it clearer; imagine someone is born with a birth defect, where one of their hands while looking completely normal, causes constant pain. It's a constant dull ache intefering in their life, pain medication can lessen it slightly, but it's always there, pain that just won't go away.

Doctors agree there is no medical intervention available to remove the pain. The person asks that the hand be removed and replaced with a prosthetic. Doctors agree that the long-term pain of an amputation will be less and more manageable than the individual experiences right now.

Do you think that the person should be permitted to have the hand removed?

My answer to that question is Yes, and that is also why I would have no problem allowing individuals to have healthy limbs removed - if that is deemed to be the medical intervention with the best long-term outcome. (And obviously assuming the individual themselves fully consents)