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J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]
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suicide_circus wrote: »is it a hate crime to maliciously misgender a person who isnt trans?
I don’t know but Meghan Murphy was banned from Twitter for misgendering that Yaniv... article even though at the time she said “he”, Yaniv was posting on social media as Jonathan Yaniv, not Jessica Yaniv. Yet, I’ve seen unbelievably scummy tweets directed at JK Rowling this week that are still up there. Twitter has quite blatant double standards on this topic. The platform has also tried to ban the Titania McGrath parody account a number of times, presumably because it hurt somebody’s fee fees.0 -
Slowyourrole wrote: »Whether you agree with JK that there needs to be a safe space and specialised services for cis women alone, I'm curious as to how people would see this done in many places. Changing rooms for instance. If a shopkeeper sees someone that looks masculine queuing for the women's changing rooms are they supposed to ask them for ID? What if they are just a cis woman who looks manly? Are they to expect to be challenged whenever they want to do something other cis women do without issue? What about a domestic abuse shelter? Is a trans woman who has transitioned in every way but the final surgery supposed to be excluded from domestic violence supports? How are the staff supposed to know what sex she was born if her abusive partner has her ID? Just seems completely unenforceable.
This is an argument used. But it is unsustainable. The truth is women have been peaceably using private facilities with transwomen for a long time. These transwomen do not seek to enact a political showdown. They live their lives, do not demand that people say TW ARE W, and women have always been fine with that and them. These transwomen sometimes speak out against the radical bullies and are called names by them.
What is happening now is much different. There is a nasty element who seek to usurp all single sex spaces from sport to representation to refuge etc and they have vocal threatening bullies among them who are very much engaged in a political pogram. As for accommodation the third space is a compassionate and viable solution that recognises trans people need their privacy and safety.
Edited because I used a word incorrectly0 -
The absolute irony of you declaring that womanhood isn't aspirational for an increasing proportion of females.
The same person who supports archaic rigid gender roles in parenting, that mothers should always be the ones to stay at home to look after children and fathers should go out to work. No need for paternity leave, that's the woman's job.
I wonder why those girls don't find womanhood aspirational...nothing to do with fixed societal expectations of gender at all.
I’d appreciate if you didn’t misrepresent what I said, to suggest something I didn’t. It’s not me is declaring any such thing. It’s social media personalities like Calvin Garrah and Sam Collins to name just two, and there are many, many more.
I never said I supported “archaic rigid gender roles” as you put it in parenting either. I pointed to the fact that just like the circumstances we’re talking about here - people are going to do what they want to do, in spite of yours or anyone else’s ideological beliefs that you believe are in their best interests. When a 12 year old child tells their parents that unless they are able to transition, they will take their own life, that’s a position I imagine no parent ever wants to find themselves in, but that is a reality for many parents today.
And you’re correct - it has everything to do with fixed societal expectations of gender that they are being told that no, they are males, or they are females, and that’s it, and they cannot change their biology. They aren’t satisfied with that answer, and they’re taking it upon themselves to do anything they can to prevent that from being their reality that they do not wish upon themselves. When they are prepared to go as far as having surgery to appropriate their preferred gender, then all arguments as to biology are invalid, as far as they’re concerned.0 -
Slowyourrole wrote: »Whether you agree with JK that there needs to be a safe space and specialised services for cis women alone, I'm curious as to how people would see this done in many places. Changing rooms for instance. If a shopkeeper sees someone that looks masculine queuing for the women's changing rooms are they supposed to ask them for ID? What if they are just a cis woman who looks manly? Are they to expect to be challenged whenever they want to do something other cis women do without issue? What about a domestic abuse shelter? Is a trans woman who has transitioned in every way but the final surgery supposed to be excluded from domestic violence supports? How are the staff supposed to know what sex she was born if her abusive partner has her ID? Just seems completely unenforceable.
With self ID, none of that can be checked.
Before self ID was a thing? Well, by your argument, many laws are unenforceable. So should we not have them? No, because they provide guidance and a framework for if somebody does want to report something. We can’t throw women and girls under the bus just because it’s difficult to do otherwise.
People have said that self ID has caused no issues in Ireland. I smile wryly at that. Everyone knows that the rate of reporting for sexual crimes is low.0 -
One eyed Jack wrote: »When a 12 year old child tells their parents that unless they are able to transition, they will take their own life, that’s a position I imagine no parent ever wants to find themselves in, but that is a reality for many parents today.
In that case, the child needs immediate psychiatric help and not for the parent to capitulate and lop off their genitals and reassure them that they are being rational.0 -
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Re suicide argument
At a conference in Bristol in October 2017, Dr Polly Carmichael, Director and Consultant Clinical Psychologist at the Tavistock clini, stated that the PACE survey is “deeply flawed” and that rates of self-harm, distress and suicidal ideation (for trans youth - my insertion) are similar to CAMHS figures overall.
https://fairplayforwomen.com/suicide/0 -
Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »It’s mad. Even people who have been fairly moderate in criricising Rowling are themselves getting attacked for being too nice to her. An actress I won’t name so she doesn’t get dogpiled, wrote a tweet thread where she disagreed with Rowling but was very measured and said nice things about her too. The comments are full of people telling this actress how disappointed they are in her for being nice to Rowling. Nothing but complete compliance is good enough for these people. It’s creepy.
The actress I mentioned in this post has deleted or deactivated her Twitter. Cripes.
Another HP actor liked a pile of JKR’s tweets on the topic and then unliked them. And honestly, who would blame him? Not worth the dogpile.0 -
Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »The actress I mentioned in this post has deleted or deactivated her Twitter. Cripes.
Another HP actor liked a pile of JKR’s tweets on the topic and then unliked them. And honestly, who would blame him? Not worth the dogpile.
It’s a good thing you’ve got boards.ie, and mumsnet, so you can keep building your own little dogpile.“It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis
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EmmetSpiceland wrote: »It’s a good thing you’ve got boards.ie, and mumsnet, so you can keep building your own little dogpile.
Got anything to add other than ad hominen?0 -
EmmetSpiceland wrote: »It’s a good thing you’ve got boards.ie, and mumsnet, so you can keep building your own little dogpile.
Hi Emmet, this is a discussion board. Anything to add yourself apart from lashing out? Don’t be sore because people are being allowed to discuss this rationally.0 -
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Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »And if a girl doesn’t want to be a girl, why does she have to be? Being a girl or the narrow definition of femaleness could actually be turning girls away?
Surely that's an argument for broadening societal definitions of male and female and breaking through rigid gender conformity and stereotypes?
Let people dress how they want ... have the hobbies and interests they want and have sex with who they want without brainwashing them from birth that it's not appropriate for boys/girls ... men/women etc
If people felt truly free to live as they want and express themselves as they need there may not be this huge surge we see in (young women esp) rejection of their biological sex0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »In that case, the child needs immediate psychiatric help and not for the parent to capitulate and lop off their genitals and reassure them that they are being rational.
Absolutely they need immediate psychiatric help, but there’s a reason why I mentioned that they already have a “cheat sheet” of what multidisciplinary teams or professionals specialising in child psychology and development are looking for in making a diagnosis.
That’s why I said the phenomenon is creating an ethical dilemma for the professionals involved, because they’re finding it more difficult to determine whether the child is actually experiencing gender dysphoria, or simply if the child is telling the adult what they need to hear in order to be diagnosed as experiencing gender dysphoria.
Most child psychologists are reluctant to make that diagnosis, but there are some who are only too keen to make it, and they’re being recommended by others who have been through the process, and recommending professionals who carry out procedures such as what’s commonly referred to as “top surgery”.
It’s a minefield right now in Ireland because the Gender Recognition Act is under review and recommendations are being made to lower the age in at which children may be recognised as their preferred gender in law, with the underlying principle being that determinations are made in the best interests of the child. Parental consent is nothing more than a formality at that stage as their authority can simply be overruled by the Courts who are more likely to favour the recommendations of the professionals involved in any case.0 -
Surely that's an argument for broadening societal definitions of male and female and breaking through rigid gender conformity and stereotypes?
Let people dress how they want ... have the hobbies and interests they want and have sex with who they want without brainwashing them from birth that it's not appropriate for boys/girls ... men/women etc
If people felt truly free to live as they want and express themselves as they need there may not be this huge surge we see in (young women esp) rejection of their biological sex
Absolutely. Much of what underpins transgender ideology is pretty regressive, sexist tosh. Many men and women don’t conform to gender stereotypes. They are still men and women. The gender-bending pop star was a fixture of ‘80s culture. That was great! Now there seems to be a hyper focus on little girls liking “boy” things and vice versa, trying to second guess whether the child is happy in their gender. It’s honestly a bit creepy to me. Why can’t we leave them be instead of sending them on a path they may feel they can’t leave later on. What happened to the tomboy? Or the little boy trying on his mother’s high heels?0 -
CtevenSrowder wrote: »So do you think it is acceptable for a biological male, even one convicted of sex offences against women, to be put in prison with other women?
Do you think it's acceptable for biological females to lose out on scholarships worth near 100's of thousands of dollars, because biological males have self id'd the other way and due to their physical advantages, natural for their sex, crush those biological females and take said scholarships?
Would you view it as perfectly acceptable for Katie Taylor to get pummelled around the ring by a biological male who simply says they are female?
Or for biological men to be on female only shortlists for politics, grants etc.?
This "let people live their lives" libertarian mantra simply glosses over the real problems that arise when we do this.
Also, you have no basis whatsoever for you 1800's/1900's claim. You'd just have been as likely to be saying that as anyone. A nice little insight into the moral superiority you feel.
Do you think it’s acceptable for same sex offenders to be housed in same sex prisons?
I believe in meritocracy. We see the problems choosing on other reasons with Varadkar!
All women should have equal access politics, grants etc
We don’t stall living because of all the small impracticalities that arise, we move forward and deal with them. That’s why it’s called progress/progressives.
I wouldn’t have thought the same as everyone else, my birth and path dictated I questioned everything from day and didn’t follow the fold.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »In that case, the child needs immediate psychiatric help and not for the parent to capitulate and lop off their genitals and reassure them that they are being rational.
You do know this never happens here.
Why be hysterical and scaremongering?
Calm down!0 -
Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »You do know this never happens here.
Why be hysterical and scaremongering?
Calm down!
Wut?
I'm being exceptionally calm.
I was responding to a question about a suicidal child who wanted to transition and suggested they get immediate psychiatric help.
No hysteria at all.
Bizarre.0 -
EmmetSpiceland wrote: »It’s a good thing you’ve got boards.ie, and mumsnet, so you can keep building your own little dogpile.
Liking posts for fun and yet this is all you can contribute. Back to twitter with you.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Wut?
I'm being exceptionally calm.
I was responding to a question about a suicidal child who wanted to transition and suggested they get immediate psychiatric help.
No hysteria at all.
Bizarre.
Indeed. I’m also bemused by the notion (that I’ve seen brought up in a few threads on this particular topic) that we can’t discuss things happening outside of Ireland’s borders. Or our discussing it is questioned at least. Despite world events being frequent topics of discussion on boards.0 -
Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »Do you think it’s acceptable for same sex offenders to be housed in same sex prisons?
How about answering the question without asking your own.
Yes I do, because the prison population should be separated based on sex. The average man will have a better chance fighting of another man then a woman due to natural differences in strength.
Now I ask you again, do you think it is acceptable for biological males, even ones convicted of sex offences against women, to be put in prison with other women?Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »I believe in meritocracy. We see the problems choosing on other reasons with Varadkar!
So you are opposed to quotas. At least that's something we can agree on.Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »All women should have equal access politics, grants etc
How do you define a woman? Is it anyone who says they are one? Do they even need to legally change gender to be considered one?Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »We don’t stall living because of all the small impracticalities that arise, we move forward and deal with them. That’s why it’s called progress/progressives.
A complete non-answer. I could use that argument right back at you. But the fact that you believe a woman having her skull fractured by another "woman" is a "small impracticality" just goes to show you are naive in the extreme, or care a lot less about women then you'd like to proclaim:
https://www.attacktheback.com/transgender-mma-fighter-fallon-fox-breaks-opponents-skull/I have struggled with many women and I have never felt the strength I felt in a fight like that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not because I’m not a doctor. I can only say that I have never felt so dominated in my life and that I am an abnormally strong woman in my own right
I doubt the current and future girls who are going to be out of pocket to the tune of thousands of dollars will view the matter as a "small practicality". Neither will the ones who train hard for years only to lose out on Olympic qualification and/or medals to someone who is, because of their sex, fitter, faster, and stronger then them.Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »I wouldn’t have thought the same as everyone else, my birth and path dictated I questioned everything from day and didn’t follow the fold.
As I said, you think you are morally superior. This statement just reaffirms that. I wouldn't have be one of those people saying "the gays are here and they are trying to convert your children" either. Know why?[because] I wouldn’t have thought the same as everyone else, my birth and path dictated I questioned everything from day and didn’t follow the fold.0 -
CtevenSrowder wrote: »How about answering the question without asking your own.
Yes I do, because the prison population should be separated based on sex. The average man will have a better chance fighting of another man then a woman due to natural differences in strength.
Now I ask you again, do you think it is acceptable for biological males, even ones convicted of sex offences against women, to be put in prison with other women?
So you are opposed to quotas. At least that's something we can agree on.
How do you define a woman? Is it anyone who says they are one? Do they even need to legally change gender to be considered one?
A complete non-answer. I could use that argument right back at you. But the fact that you believe a woman having her skull fractured by another "woman" is a "small impracticality" just goes to show you are naive in the extreme, or care a lot less about women then you'd like to proclaim:
https://www.attacktheback.com/transgender-mma-fighter-fallon-fox-breaks-opponents-skull/
I doubt the current and future girls who are going to be out of pocket to the tune of thousands of dollars will view the matter as a "small practicality". Neither will the ones who train hard for years only to lose out on Olympic qualification and/or medals to someone who is, because of their sex, fitter, faster, and stronger then them.
As I said, you think you are morally superior. This statement just reaffirms that. I wouldn't have be one of those people saying "the gays are here and they are trying to convert your children" either. Know why?
So you believe all men are the same. Wrong.
I don’t define woman, if someone tells me they are a woman I take them on that because I’m not in the business of speculating what’s in someone’s pants.
The fact you believe the murder of trans women in male prisons is ok just goes to show the value you put on trans lives.
I don’t speak for the next generation of women but there is safe guarding in sport regarding hormones.
One minute your against quotas then you worry women won’t be able to get funding based on their merit, which is it?
I’m not morally superior, Im just expressing my world view your expressing yours. You’re angry at mine, while I’m amused at yours.0 -
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Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »So you believe all men are the same. Wrong.
So you refuse to answer the question. The reason you won't is because you know having biological men in prison with women is an absurdity, particularly if they are sex offenders. But you can't admit this because then your whole trans-women are women logic implodes in on itself. I'll take your second refusal to answer as that no, you don't think it's ok for biological men to be in prison with women. And we both know why this is.
And secondly, I said the average man. So no I don't think "all men are the same".Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »I don’t define woman, if someone tells me they are a woman I take them on that because I’m not in the business of speculating what’s in someone’s pants.
So another person who just erases women. If you can't even begin to define what it is, how can it exist?Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »The fact you believe the murder of trans women in male prisons is ok just goes to show the value you put on trans lives.
No I don't believe it's ok. I just don't believe the solution to this is to increase the danger women are under.Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »I don’t speak for the next generation of women but there is safe guarding in sport regarding hormones.
And you believe this is ok, considering it's employed to stop trans-women engaging in woman's sports. Is that not transphobic in your book. If women are women, why should some be discriminated against in such a way.Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »One minute your against quotas then you worry women won’t be able to get funding based on their merit, which is it?
I am opposed to quotas. But they exist. The same way there are scholarships aimed specifically at black people (see Stormzy). I'm guessing you are fine with a white person getting one of his schloarships as long as they identify as black, because I mean, who is anyone to say anything about what anyone is.Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »I’m not morally superior, Im just expressing my world view your expressing yours. You’re angry at mine, while I’m amused at yours.
You've called me angry on numerous occasions, even though I am not, and insinuated the same with thedunne. That's called projection.Projection is the process of displacing one's feelings onto a different person
So maybe take your own advice andDelaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »Calm down!0 -
Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »I don’t define woman, if someone tells me they are a woman I take them on that because I’m not in the business of speculating what’s in someone’s pants.
Well other people with more normal mature lives do need to know.
They need to know if their wives, sisters and daughters are dealing with real women or not in certain situations. They need to know who might be interacting with their children and be able to understand them and trust that they have the same values.0 -
CtevenSrowder wrote: »So you refuse to answer the question. The reason you won't is because you know having biological men in prison with women is an absurdity, particularly if they are sex offenders. But you can't admit this because then your whole trans-women are women logic implodes in on itself. I'll take your second refusal to answer as that no, you don't think it's ok for biological men to be in prison with women. And we both know why this is.
And secondly, I said the average man. So no I don't think "all men are the same".
So another person who just erases women. If you can't even begin to define what it is, how can it exist?
No I don't believe it's ok. I just don't believe the solution to this is to increase the danger women are under.
And you believe this is ok, considering it's employed to stop trans-women engaging in woman's sports? Is that not transphobic in your book? If women are women, why should some be discriminated against in such a way?
I am opposed to quotas. But they exist. The same way there are scholarships aimed specifically at black people (see Stormzy). I'm guessing you are fine with a white person getting one of his schloarships as long as they identify as black, because I mean, who is anyone to say anything about what anyone is.
You've called me angry on numerous occasions, even though I am not, and insinuated the same with thedunne. That's called projection.
So maybe take your own advice and
Trans women should not be in male prisons, you people need everything literally spelled out for you.
Giving people rights doesn’t erase others rights that was debunked when you tried it with marriage equality.
Are you going to use a Duluth colour chart to decide who’s black enough for the scholarship?
It’s not projection it’s just the way you read.
You people by the way means ones who don’t see the full picture.0 -
TuringBot47 wrote: »Well other people with more normal mature lives do need to know.
They need to know if their wives, sisters and daughters are dealing with real women or not in certain situations. They need to know who might be interacting with their children and be able to understand them and trust that they have the same values.
Reminds me of the friends episode where everyone is uncomfortable with a male babysitter.
Welcome to the 21st century some of us have been here a while, come join us.
Your genitals don’t decide your values. How comical!0 -
Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »Trans women should not be in male prisons, you people need everything literally spelled out for you.
Yes, I need a straight answer. Not the obfuscation I originally got from you.Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »Giving people rights doesn’t erase others rights that was debunked when you tried it with marriage equality.
What do you mean by 'you'? I voted in favour of marriage equality. I'm also pro-choice. I'm generally speaking socially liberal. This doesn't extend to denying biological reality or trying to undermine science to fit my World view, which is what people with your bizarre ultra-progressive politics want to do. It's why earlier I compared it to Climate change. Both try to undermine scientific facts and/or scientific consensus to bolster their World view.Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »Are you going to use a Duluth colour chart to decide who’s black enough for the scholarship?
What's the need, one just has to say they are, then they are no?
"I'm gay and black and female and disabled and who are you to say I'm not! As such I want a disabled parking badge and social welfare for those who are disabled and can't work. I want access to black only scholarships, female shortlists and sports teams. And noone can say no because female-ness and being disabled have no definition and sure who are you anyway to say I'm not any of those things you transphobe you. You bigot, you big ablist you!"Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »It’s not projection it’s just the way you read.
You said that last time after you accused me of being angry, even after I told you I wasn't. I'm happy with sticking to projection on your part.Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »You people by the way means ones who don’t see the full picture.
I absolutely can see the full picture, and it shows lots of problems going forward.0 -
Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »Reminds me of the friends episode where everyone is uncomfortable with a male babysitter.
Welcome to the 21st century some of us have been here a while, come join us.
Your genitals don’t decide your values. How comical!
Do you think there is a difference between men and women? If so, what is it? If not, why do people "transition"?0 -
CtevenSrowder wrote: »Yes, I need a straight answer. Not the obfuscation I originally got from you.
What do you mean by 'you'? I voted in favour of marriage equality. I'm also pro-choice. I'm generally speaking socially liberal. This doesn't extend to denying biological reality or trying to undermine science to fit my World view, which is what people with your bizarre ultra-progressive politics want to do. It's why earlier I compared it to Climate change. Both try to undermine scientific facts and/or scientific consensus to bolster their World view.
What's the need, one just has to say they are, then they are no?
"I'm gay and black and female and disabled and who are you to say I'm not! As such I want a disabled parking badge and social welfare for those who are disabled and can't work. I want access to black only scholarships, female shortlists and sports teams. And noone can say no because female-ness and being disabled have no definition and sure who are you anyway to say I'm not any of those things you transphobe you. You bigot, you big ablist you!"
You said that last time after you accused me of being angry, even after I told you I wasn't. I'm happy with sticking to projection on your part.
I absolutely can see the full picture, and it shows lots of problems going forward.
Your catastophising.
For someone who claims to be socially liberally you’ve hit every branch of the regressive tree on your way there.
Your points have been used against black people, women, gay people and here you are socially liberal just trotting them out again.
Can you point out more than ten situations world wide where someone has claimed to be black and trans and disabled and gay to claim something they weren’t eligible for under the rules of the scheme?
Or is your argument like the critics of part timers getting the pup payment? People fully eligible under the rules of the scheme but because they are slightly better off in life or than ‘you’, well we can’t be having that. Can we now?0 -
Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »Your catastophising.
For someone who claims to be socially liberally you’ve hit every branch of the regressive tree on your way there.
Your points have been used against black people, women, gay people and here you are socially liberal just trotting them out again.
Can you point out more than ten situations world wide where someone has claimed to be black and trans and disabled and gay to claim something they weren’t eligible for under the rules of the scheme?
Or is your argument like the critics of part timers getting the pup payment? People fully eligible under the rules of the scheme but because they are slightly better off in life or than ‘you’, well we can’t be having that. Can we now?
Can you point out just one example of where a person can physically change their sex by wishing it?0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Do you think there is a difference between men and women? If so, what is it? If not, why do people "transition"?
It’s subjective, so whatever I say you will criticise.
People have different views on the differences between men and women.
If people want to discriminate against a prospective employee because of what’s in their trousers or isn’t, nothing that I will say will change your mind.
Thankfully we have the WRC/IHREC to protect people from discrimination based on their genitalia as well as a whole other host of issues most people are progressing on.0 -
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[Deleted User] wrote: »Can you point out just one example of where a person can physically change their sex by wishing it?
This is real life not a Disney Cartoon.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
This discussion has been closed.
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